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I have been hearing a lot of Matt Ward lately. And I was wondering who he exactly was, and why everyone hates him? Or dislikes him.

One of the codex writers. People hate him for two reasons; what he writes and because other do because of that.

This is always so much fun...

Search the forums and you shall find the answer.

Now can we get a lock on this before the Ward hate club sees it?

The four main reasons that get trotted about.

He wrote the Blood Angels codex. In particular, the Ghehenna Crusade where Blood Angels and Necrons formed an uneasy alliance against an incoming Tyranid fleet.

He wrote the Necron codex, in which he rewrote a lot of fluff that some people liked and some people didn't, and made new fluff that some people like and some people don't.

He made an offhand comment in an interview article in White Dwarf jokingly saying all Space Marines consider Roboute Guilliman to be their spiritual leige, and the usual internet hate train ran with it and tell everyone he actually wrote it in the Space Marine codex.

He wrote codex Grey Knights.

-Loki- wrote:...... He made an offhand comment in an interview article in White Dwarf jokingly saying all Space Marines consider Roboute Guilliman to be their spiritual leige, and the usual internet hate train ran with it and tell everyone he actually wrote it in the Space Marine codex.......

BUT THIS ONE IS TRUE

j/k, dont kill me trolls!

I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

broodstar wrote:I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

Because, Space Wolves and Tyranids are subtle, story wise.

Matt Ward pretty much made Grey Knights ( especially Draigo ) Gary Stu.
Its as if Matt Ward doesnt know how to be subtle ( Im sure he does, but is just following GW orders )
to make everything tailored towards something a 10 year old would enjoy.

broodstar wrote:I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

There's no Phil Kelly hate club because he generally writes good books with good lists and good fluff, with only a few obviously over or underpowered units. There are people who don't like him, but I don't think there's enough to be considered a 'club'.

There very definitely is a Cruddace hate club - a portion of the IG playerbase, and the entirety of the Sisters of Battle and Tyranid playerbases, who he screwed over with sub par codices.

-Loki- wrote:The four main reasons that get trotted about.

He wrote the Blood Angels codex. In particular, the Ghehenna Crusade where Blood Angels and Necrons formed an uneasy alliance against an incoming Tyranid fleet.

It's not necessarily the stopping to fight the nids, it's the ridiculous reasoning he gave for the BA's not going after the Necrons. Not to mention ridiculous naming conventions go so far as to re-name otherwise textbook standard wargear just to include the word "blood" a few more times, and a ton of gimmicky rules.

He wrote the Necron codex, in which he rewrote a lot of fluff that some people liked and some people didn't, and made new fluff that some people like and some people don't.

Lets not forget a glut of gimmick abilities and silly special rules It's his own special hallmark in every book he puts out, which is a large reason why many dislike him.

He made an offhand comment in an interview article in White Dwarf jokingly saying all Space Marines consider Roboute Guilliman to be their spiritual leige, and the usual internet hate train ran with it and tell everyone he actually wrote it in the Space Marine codex.

There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

He wrote codex Grey Knights.

Which in and of itself is reason enough for many.


Oh, lets not forget all the stuff with the Ultramarines

LunaHound wrote:
Its as if Matt Ward doesnt know how to be subtle ( Im sure he does, but is just following GW orders )
to make everything tailored towards something a 10 year old would enjoy.

This. He writes like an over-excited 12 year old slapping out a set out house rules and fan-fic after school, and that gets to people.

-Loki- wrote:He made an offhand comment in an interview article in White Dwarf jokingly saying all Space Marines consider Roboute Guilliman to be their spiritual leige, and the usual internet hate train ran with it and tell everyone he actually wrote it in the Space Marine codex.

Wasn't really a joke. And what is written on page 8 pretty much toes that line due to improper pronoun usage. It does very much tone down any role of any other chapter.

LunaHound wrote:

broodstar wrote:I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

Because, Space Wolves and Tyranids are subtle, story wise.

Matt Ward pretty much made Grey Knights ( especially Draigo ) Gary Stu

Naw I'm not talking story wise.

Everytime I go against LF spam or Thunder cav... Damn you Phil Kelly!
Everytime my MCs die before they reach CC... Damn you Robin Cruddace!

Vaktathi wrote:

He made an offhand comment in an interview article in White Dwarf jokingly saying all Space Marines consider Roboute Guilliman to be their spiritual leige, and the usual internet hate train ran with it and tell everyone he actually wrote it in the Space Marine codex.

There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

You're right, but it was still an interview article where he simply expressed his opinion. Wether or not he wrote the codex means nothing. it's not actually official fluff. Which probably means someone stepped in and told him no when he wanted it in the book - regardless, it's not official fluff. So it's a moronic thing to get hung up over. People say stupid things, but as long as it's only printed as part of an interview and not as actual fluff, then it's meaningless when concerning fluff.

-Loki- wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:

He made an offhand comment in an interview article in White Dwarf jokingly saying all Space Marines consider Roboute Guilliman to be their spiritual leige, and the usual internet hate train ran with it and tell everyone he actually wrote it in the Space Marine codex.

There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

You're right, but it was still an interview article where he simply expressed his opinion. Wether or not he wrote the codex means nothing. it's not actually official fluff. Which probably means someone stepped in and told him no when he wanted it in the book - regardless, it's not official fluff. So it's a moronic thing to get hung up over. People say stupid things, but as long as it's only printed as part of an interview and not as actual fluff, then it's meaningless when concerning fluff.

It's the codex writer making a statement in an official GW publication, if it's not official fluff (to some, the writer saying that in an official publication makes it so), it's something the codex writer stated and something that influenced the way he wrote the book which very much reflected that point of view. It was a statement that many people take exception to and not something most want to be reflected in the SM fluff, hence why people don't like it, and it's not a moronic thing to get hung up over for that reason.

There's no Phil Kelly hate club because he generally writes good books with good lists and good fluff, with only a few obviously over or underpowered units. There are people who don't like him, but I don't think there's enough to be considered a 'club'.

I'm in that club myself because of how long I was forced to endure Tri-Falcon skimmerspam in 4th edition. Not to mention his fluff on Vect was pretty much in the realm of "Mary Sue" but everyone has to focus on the overt to notice. As well his overpowered units are big enough that you never honestly see much within the space wolves codex. It's imbalanced so bad that there literally is nothing compared to the alternates, of course in dark eldar the obvious ones were noticeable, but the book as a whole stood around so that blaster spam was dominant, but still the other options were usable.

Vaktathi wrote:It's the codex writer making a statement in an official GW publication, if it's not official fluff (to some, the writer saying that in an official publication makes it so), it's something the codex writer stated and something that influenced the way he wrote the book which very much reflected that point of view. It was a statement that many people take exception to and not something most want to be reflected in the SM fluff, hence why people don't like it, and it's not a moronic thing to get hung up over for that reason.

So now random comments in interviews in white dwarf are fluff?

feth, the 40k background forum is screwed.

Sorry, but no, it's just some comment he made in an interview. It wasn't even published in an actual story peice. It's just a writer being a writer and being enthusiastic about the product. But until that line is printed in a codex, it's not fluff. Sure, there's stuff in white dwarf that is considered fluff - they're actual short stories, like the short expansions on the Octarius war they did in the Tyranid issue. Note that that wasn't Cruddace in a Q&A session.

Sure, Wards comment is stupid, and it rightfully irks people, but it's not fluff, even in the absurdly loose way they do it in white dwarf.

-Loki- wrote:Sure, Wards comment is stupid, and it rightfully irks people, but it's not fluff, even in the absurdly loose way they do it in white dwarf.

If someone says stupid things, it makes them stupid for doing so. Then you wouldnt want someone that says stupid things to be in charge of anything do you?
like in charge of writing codice.

Responsibility is an essential element of integrity; it is the congruence of what you think, what you say, and what you do

-Loki- wrote:

So now random comments in interviews in white dwarf are fluff?

An interview statement from a codex writer in an official GW publication about a faction in said codex is...nothing? Methinks that's a wee bit realistic. If it were, nobody would care.

feth, the 40k background forum is screwed.

Many people think it has been of late

Sure, Wards comment is stupid, and it rightfully irks people, but it's not fluff, even in the absurdly loose way they do it in white dwarf.

Again, the codex writer making a statement about the fluff of a codex they wrote in an official GW publication has some weight in that department, hence why people are upset about it.

LunaHound wrote:

broodstar wrote:I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

Because, Space Wolves and Tyranids are subtle, story wise.

Matt Ward pretty much made Grey Knights ( especially Draigo ) Gary Stu.
Its as if Matt Ward doesnt know how to be subtle ( Im sure he does, but is just following GW orders )
to make everything tailored towards something a 10 year old would enjoy.

I don't think you know what Mary Sue is.

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

broodstar wrote:I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

Because, Space Wolves and Tyranids are subtle, story wise.

Matt Ward pretty much made Grey Knights ( especially Draigo ) Gary Stu.
Its as if Matt Ward doesnt know how to be subtle ( Im sure he does, but is just following GW orders )
to make everything tailored towards something a 10 year old would enjoy.

I don't think you know what Mary Sue is.

Well to be fair Mary Sues are quite comlicated.

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

broodstar wrote:I'd like to know how come there isn't a Phil Kelly (Space Wolves) or Robin Cruddace (Tyranids) hate club.

Because, Space Wolves and Tyranids are subtle, story wise.

Matt Ward pretty much made Grey Knights ( especially Draigo ) Gary Stu.
Its as if Matt Ward doesnt know how to be subtle ( Im sure he does, but is just following GW orders )
to make everything tailored towards something a 10 year old would enjoy.

I don't think you know what Mary Sue is.

Ya Im pretty sure I know what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu
though I know you have the habit of " correcting" anyone that calls Draigo that....

Its ok though

Vaktathi wrote:There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

Jokingly or not, it's just his opinion and never once codified in the background.

Vaktathi wrote:it's something the codex writer stated and something that influenced the way he wrote the book which very much reflected that point of view. It was a statement that many people take exception to and not something most want to be reflected in the SM fluff, hence why people don't like it, and it's not a moronic thing to get hung up over for that reason.

Except, you know, it's NOT reflected in the background. Which moves it firmly back into the 'moronic' camp.

Kaldor wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

Jokingly or not, it's just his opinion and never once codified in the background.

Vaktathi wrote:it's something the codex writer stated and something that influenced the way he wrote the book which very much reflected that point of view. It was a statement that many people take exception to and not something most want to be reflected in the SM fluff, hence why people don't like it, and it's not a moronic thing to get hung up over for that reason.

Except, you know, it's NOT reflected in the background. Which moves it firmly back into the 'moronic' camp.

So if I make racist jokes about black people, thats alright as I proceed to be the president of black panthers?

How long before I get shot, and why?

LunaHound wrote:Ya Im pretty sure I know what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu
though I know you have the habit of " correcting" anyone that calls Draigo that....

Its ok though

If you think the Draigo character is any kind of wish-fulfillment Mary Sue, then you're way off base. Either you're reading the material wrong, or you're using the wrong definition.

Either way, you're wrong.

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Ya Im pretty sure I know what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu
though I know you have the habit of " correcting" anyone that calls Draigo that....

Its ok though

If you think the Draigo character is any kind of wish-fulfillment Mary Sue, then you're way off base. Either you're reading the material wrong, or you're using the wrong definition.

Either way, you're wrong.

Implying wish-fulfillment is the ONLY trait, scroll down and read the rest.

LunaHound wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

Jokingly or not, it's just his opinion and never once codified in the background.

Vaktathi wrote:it's something the codex writer stated and something that influenced the way he wrote the book which very much reflected that point of view. It was a statement that many people take exception to and not something most want to be reflected in the SM fluff, hence why people don't like it, and it's not a moronic thing to get hung up over for that reason.

Except, you know, it's NOT reflected in the background. Which moves it firmly back into the 'moronic' camp.

So if I make racist jokes about black people, thats alright as I proceed to be the president of black panthers?

How long before I get shot, and why?

I know that was written in English, but it was still unintelligible. You're going to have to draw that connection between White Dwarf and the Black Panthers a bit more clearly for me.

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:There's a lot of your own personal context there in that, it wasn't exactly an offhand comment, it's half a page of text, and there's nothing that indicated it was said jokingly.

Jokingly or not, it's just his opinion and never once codified in the background.

Vaktathi wrote:it's something the codex writer stated and something that influenced the way he wrote the book which very much reflected that point of view. It was a statement that many people take exception to and not something most want to be reflected in the SM fluff, hence why people don't like it, and it's not a moronic thing to get hung up over for that reason.

Except, you know, it's NOT reflected in the background. Which moves it firmly back into the 'moronic' camp.

So if I make racist jokes about black people, thats alright as I proceed to be the president of black panthers?

How long before I get shot, and why?

I know that was written in English, but it was still unintelligible. You're going to have to draw that connection between White Dwarf and the Black Panthers a bit more clearly for me.

No thanks.

LunaHound wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Ya Im pretty sure I know what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu
though I know you have the habit of " correcting" anyone that calls Draigo that....

Its ok though

If you think the Draigo character is any kind of wish-fulfillment Mary Sue, then you're way off base. Either you're reading the material wrong, or you're using the wrong definition.

Either way, you're wrong.

Implying wish-fulfillment is the ONLY trait, scroll down and read the rest.

Broadly, it is. Mary Sue refers to characters that are self-inserts of the author, wish fulfillment and perfect versions of themselves. The character is written as the author would wish themselves to be.

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Kaldor wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Ya Im pretty sure I know what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu
though I know you have the habit of " correcting" anyone that calls Draigo that....

Its ok though

If you think the Draigo character is any kind of wish-fulfillment Mary Sue, then you're way off base. Either you're reading the material wrong, or you're using the wrong definition.

Either way, you're wrong.

Implying wish-fulfillment is the ONLY trait, scroll down and read the rest.

Broadly, it is. Mary Sue refers to characters that are self-inserts of the author, wish fulfillment and perfect versions of themselves. The character is written as the author would wish themselves to be.

And... the rest?

Yes.....

LunaHound wrote:

Broadly, it is. Mary Sue refers to characters that are self-inserts of the author, wish fulfillment and perfect versions of themselves. The character is written as the author would wish themselves to be.

And... the rest?

Th
Yes.....

There is no 'rest'.

You're operating under a false definition. It often happens when people try to use jargon they don't fully understand.

This might help.