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So by the end of the 13th Black Crusade, most of Cadian surface is controlled by Abbadon the Despoiler but the space is controlled by Imperial forces... so this raised two questions for me.

1. Since Cadian surface is mostly conquered, where are the Cadian Shock Imperial Guards going to come from?

2. Situation seems a little unfair for Abbadon... I mean, he and a ton of Chaos troops are trapped on the surface, weathering bombardments everyday. Do I see a potential table-turning situation for Abbadon in the future?

Abaddon is described as being in the Thesus sector at the head of 13th Black Crusade forces in the Apocalypse rulebook, and has assaulted the planet of Thesus Reach and possibly destroying the planet with the Planet Killer, with war set to engulf the rest of that sector. Thesus sector was NOT one of the warzones fought in the EoT campaign breakout hence the logical conclusion is that the Thesus sector is post EoT and he is beyond the immediate vicinity of the Cadian Gate.

As for your first question, the Cadians are one of the most numerous and emulated IG forces out there and it is easily believable that there are colony worlds founded by former Cadian regiments. Even if all of Cadia were to be lost, it would be easy enough to imagine "New Cadia" being set up to replace it, along with some sort of longing for revenge and reconquest of the original homeworld. The equipment of the Cadians is also widely emulated by other worlds so the figures could be used anyway. The 4th edition IG Codex gave some examples of such regiments.

^ The IoM wouldn't let Cadia fall anyway because of it's proximity to the Eye and it's strategic importance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^ The IoM wouldn't let Cadia fall anyway because of it's proximity to the Eye and it's strategic importance.

Diesel Stradin wrote:
1. Since Cadian surface is mostly conquered, where are the Cadian Shock Imperial Guards going to come from?

Kind of silly, but, the theory would be, I guess explanations would include

1-the other worlds idea suggested above

2-sending generations to die seems unsustainable-- if they can do that normally, seems likely they have the means to sustain production/population when their planet is being invaded

3-the "present" 40k is essentially a static point in time: maybe cadia is, in fact, doomed when they run out of soldiers, but we'll never get there/

The Imperium Can't let Cadia Fall , it is THE most Stratigically important planet short of Holy Terra , Cadian Shock Troopers come from the Kars on the Planet which are Fortress cities , which extend underground ( Cadian Blood explains this ) What i would assume happens is that Chaos Controlls the outlands and most of the planet while Cadians control the Major Cities . I would see CHaos being pushed back because they are unable to be supplied and are reciveing massive Casualties from day-day bombardment and Pure Attrition . But Kars would be able to give way a much smaller supplie of Cadian Regiments but they have Home Guard ( if i remember ) which are as good as their Imperial Counterparts but are just 1 Badass PDF , In Cadia you are always a soldier, once you Retire from the standard Military you go into Reserve and remain there intill death , Cadia will be hard pressed to be Defeated

Kasrkin229, you assume wrongly about the situation on the ground. The Cadians had lost multiple Kasrs. At the end, Imperial Control of the planet was at 39.8% compared to 95% at the start of the campaign. From holding virtually the entire planet to holding well under half the planet. That is losing the equivalent of several continents, not merely the "outlands". For a rough comparison, the continent of North America is about 16% of the Earth's land surface area.

The final Eye of Terror results and the background short story in that same WD showed the HQ Kasr of Kasr Partox (not to be confused with the fortress planet of the same name in the same system), was destroyed, and Creed having to pull a Dunkirk like maneuver/evacuation to Kasr Gallan. These details are also confirmed by the Black Library background book titled 13th Black Crusade. The Black Library book Cadian Blood has a protagonist that was famous for his actions in one particular battle, but who felt guilty as the Cadians still ultimately lost that battle and that Kasr.

For a summary and reposting of the results see:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/392010.page

My apologizeing but in any case the Cadians still hold some Kasrs correct ? and Chaos has no mean of literate resupplie so eventually they will be forced to retreat , but i would be worried about the Inquisistion claiming the Cadians to be Tainted and exterminating the planet ...., i havn't read to much into the Black Crusade , Fluff wise my Regiment has been busy fighting HIve Fleet Kraken......... 65 losses , 64 Wins , 86 Ties.............. litterly the planet we are fighting over ( we as in a group of players ) is a Ball of Dirt .......no stratigic value...

Keep in mind imperial bodies drop equipment, guns, ammo, and are a convenient source of food.
If chaos push forward then they will make some inroads into resupplying. Despite unreliable supply lines.

Just ask yourself, how much consideration do you think Abaddon will give to resupplying mutant and heretic canon fodder.

But i find it higly unlikly that CSM would Squander Resources in wasteing them , the Marines themselfs can't possibley hope to hold the entire World of Cadia , they would be outnumbred 20-1 but also they would be forced to fall back because of it and the Crusade would fail incredabley easily , If the Crusade stays it current course then Chaos will simpily run out of troops

Chaos vaporised untold thousands of their own troops burning kasr partox with the blackstone fortress at the end of the campaign.
Their is a casual disregard for mutant life.

Although imperium held cadia sector, chaos held cadia planet and system, they have a grip on the world.

Admittedly they will have to try a break out at some point, but if it comes to that, rest assured cadia would have been stripped and gutted and useless as a fortress world. Its more likely the imperium will have to dig them out before they totally lose the world as a strategic asset.

Cadia was purely used as a Fortress world nothing more ( some Agri value )it would take time to rebuild but it could be done , Cadia is Renown for its Shock Troopers and PDF , They will Fight to the Death , They shelter almost as much Hate for the CSM as the Space Marines . If Cadia is Taken if it is pryed from the Cold Dead Hands of Ever Man , Women and Child on that planet . Cadia WIll not Fall as long as a Cadian Still Breathes . It is that Fanactism that will Defeat Chaos with some other goodies thrown in

Chaos does not need orthodox supply lines in the way the Imperium does. If they have the people on the ground, they can open Warp Gates that link them to their rear-supply bases in the Eye, or to other Chaos-held worlds in other parts of the galaxy, and simply have a new regiment of troops, tanks, whatever, walk into the portal on one end, and walk out of it on Cadia.

Chaos can't resupply? They are chaos can't they just summon more stuff from the warp?

Kasrkin229 wrote:Cadia was purely used as a Fortress world nothing more ( some Agri value )it would take time to rebuild but it could be done , Cadia is Renown for its Shock Troopers and PDF , They will Fight to the Death , They shelter almost as much Hate for the CSM as the Space Marines . If Cadia is Taken if it is pryed from the Cold Dead Hands of Ever Man , Women and Child on that planet . Cadia WIll not Fall as long as a Cadian Still Breathes . It is that Fanactism that will Defeat Chaos with some other goodies thrown in

Fanboy much? Doesn't matter how much the Cadians hate them; Chaos is still Chaos and Cadians are still guardsmen.

TheCaptain wrote:
Doesn't matter how much the Cadians hate them; Chaos is still Chaos and Cadians are still Imperial guardsmen.

fixed.

You know, the game with the Imperial, ie human perspective..

We could also wait for the CSM codex, to tell us the latest version of it.

1hadhq wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:
Doesn't matter how much the Cadians hate them; Chaos is still Chaos and Cadians are still Imperial guardsmen.

fixed.

You know, the game with the Imperial, ie human perspective..

We could also wait for the CSM codex, to tell us the latest version of it.

I'm sorry, what?

Actually yes fanboy lol but Cadians are the best equip guardsmen , lasguns are better , Armor , Traning ect.

Still guardsmen.

TheCaptain wrote:

1hadhq wrote:

TheCaptain wrote:
Doesn't matter how much the Cadians hate them; Chaos is still Chaos and Cadians are still Imperial guardsmen.

fixed.

You know, the game with the Imperial, ie human perspective..

We could also wait for the CSM codex, to tell us the latest version of it.

I'm sorry, what?

The background seems to be skewed in favour of the Imperium at times. Think he was implying about their plot armour.

I'm not sure Cadians are the best as there are other regiments out there that come to mind as being pretty good as well, DKoK, Mordian Iron Guard, Armageddon Steel Legion, Praetorians. Each just seems to have their own main strength and for Cadia that seems to be zeal. Not to say they are lacking in other ways of course.

TheCaptain wrote:Still guardsmen.

Well, Cadians are much better trained than other guardsmen. Some say they are equals to space marines. Just not in armor or personal strength. Chaos will never get Cadia. They are too well protected and too well armed.

Doesn't matter what Failbaddon does.

In space warfare, whoever has air superiority will win the fight regardless of what's happening on the ground. The Chaos forces can win as many battles on the ground as they want- they'll never be able to organize their troops into any real battlegroups because Imperium ships will just level them to paste with orbital bombardments. The Chaos forces will basically be forced to run around underground for the entirety of the war.

Abaddon was able to bypass Cadia with a fleet, but now that Imperial forces have space superiority around the Cadian Gate, that means no more fleet reinforcements for Abaddon.

The 13th Crusade did a number on the Imperium, but as long as they hold the Gate the fight's already lost for Abaddon.

Diesel Stradin wrote:So by the end of the 13th Black Crusade, most of Cadian surface is controlled by Abbadon the Despoiler but the space is controlled by Imperial forces... so this raised two questions for me.

1. Since Cadian surface is mostly conquered, where are the Cadian Shock Imperial Guards going to come from?

2. Situation seems a little unfair for Abbadon... I mean, he and a ton of Chaos troops are trapped on the surface, weathering bombardments everyday. Do I see a potential table-turning situation for Abbadon in the future?

1. Existing regiments. Not every Cadian regiment could be redeployed, so even if the entire world was destroyed odds are some regiments would remain fighting. Even then Cadians are notable regiments and would likely be given colonization rights to some worlds they fight on and create a culture similar to Cadia. Beyond that, a lot of regiments copy the Cadians' equipment style.

2. Abbadon probably isn't on the surface. Knowing how Chaos works, the guys trapped on the surface are probably his rivals and they are probably meant to die. Also, Cadia falling for something would require that the timeline advance into 000.M42, since the current setting with Chaos surrounded is literally like 599999.M41, which GW won't do.

I have always been a part of the understanding that 90% of 40K games take place before the close of M41, otherwise knows as the "present" in 40K. that's why worldwide campaigns don't really matter, as they will never advance the storyline in a non-approved GW way.

I have even had moments during the old "world campaign" where I imagine GW artificially manipulating the scores in the way that fits "their universe" the best. So non-Imperials can never do anything but stalemate at best.

AegisGrimm wrote:I have always been a part of the understanding that 90% of 40K games take place before the close of M41, otherwise knows as the "present" in 40K. that's why worldwide campaigns don't really matter, as they will never advance the storyline in a non-approved GW way.

I have even had moments during the old "world campaign" where I imagine GW artificially manipulating the scores in the way that fits "their universe" the best. So non-Imperials can never do anything but stalemate at best.

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, there is only 999 M41

Cadia has been exterminated of Human life before and it will be repopulated if Abbadon somehow turns his luck around. Even so Cadia has regiments scattered all around the galaxy fighting in the Emperor's name.

This is, of course, assuming the worst. Cadians will most likely reclaim their world, Abbadon will retreat and the day will belong to the Imperium. Cadia is too vital to leave in the hands of Chaos.

The 6E rulebook has Cadia preparing for Abaddon's assault, which leads me to believe that it supposedly did not happen yet. The writers have turned back the clock a bit on this one.

Makes sense. The whole "Chaos won on the ground but the Imperium won in space" thing was a silly dynamic. Better to just pretend that whole thing didn't happen.

All the same, I can't help but sigh in disappoint regarding how GW refuses to advance the setting. I'm aware that GW considers 40K fluff to be a setting, not a story. I could care less. The table-top doesn't interest me at all, only the fluff. I would really like to see some stories take place beyond 999. M41

BlaxicanX wrote:Makes sense. The whole "Chaos won on the ground but the Imperium won in space" thing was a silly dynamic. Better to just pretend that whole thing didn't happen.

All the same, I can't help but sigh in disappoint regarding how GW refuses to advance the setting. I'm aware that GW considers 40K fluff to be a setting, not a story. I could care less. The table-top doesn't interest me at all, only the fluff. I would really like to see some stories take place beyond 999. M41

Actually it didn't happen. When the world wide campaign took place, Chaos won both on the ground and in space. GW decided that they wished to avoid 'Empire In Flames' mark II and set it up so that Imperial wins were counted several times in different pages of the results.

I'm aware that Chaos wiped in both fields.

However, ultimately the fluff was established that Chaos won on the planet and lost in Space. So what actually happened doesn't really matter much.

Which is why all campaigns that effect the fluff should only take place on some backwater planet that everyone cares about for some reason, but regardless of who wins, nothing is completely skewed from how they want the setting.


Having the Campaign on the edge of hell, where if the bad guys win, the gak hits the fan so hard it leaves a fan sized hole in the wall, is not a good idea unless you are ok with the potential of that happening.

Stormtrooper520 wrote:
Some say they are equals to space marines.

Some say plenty of false things. This just happens to be one of them. I once heard a man say the answer to life was under my subway seat. This man, of course, was on drugs.