Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have never really used a librarian in my armies because his lack of invulnerable save has always put me off. But with the increased use of psycers in 6th ed I thought I would give him a try.
The problem is I have absolutely no idea how I should build one.
Is it worth it for the terminator armour to get an invulnerable save? Is the Epistolary upgrade worth it? Should I stick with the codex powers or go with the new ones in the BRB and if I do which discipline do you guys think is the best?

Any help would be great!

-Humbaba

I run my Librarian as an epistolary.

I gave him Psychic Shriek + Null Zone one mission where my opponent was using Terminators. A bit of rolling well, and the Librarian vaporized a 200+ Point Unit and a Chaplain.

If you do use him, just make sure he's in a bunker of a Rhino, or in a squad. Use powers depending on the opponent.

In higher point games, consider allying with a Space Wolves of Blood Angels player to get a Divination Librarian, and use him to allow you to reroll misses and such.

Crazyterran wrote:I run my Librarian as an epistolary.

I gave him Psychic Shriek + Null Zone one mission where my opponent was using Terminators. A bit of rolling well, and the Librarian vaporized a 200+ Point Unit and a Chaplain.

If you do use him, just make sure he's in a bunker of a Rhino, or in a squad. Use powers depending on the opponent.

In higher point games, consider allying with a Space Wolves of Blood Angels player to get a Divination Librarian, and use him to allow you to reroll misses and such.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how did you take Psychic Shriek AND Null Zone? I was under the impression that you either took codex abilities or BRB abilities.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but how did you take Psychic Shriek AND Null Zone? I was under the impression that you either took codex abilities or BRB abilities.

This is also what I thought...

You cant mix codex and BRB powers.

I LOVE librarians. What does the rest of your army look like currently? I have 3 librarian models, two are MEQ and one is TEQ.

I like to use the MEQ ones in combination, one takes the codex powers (gate of infinty for my sternguard) and the other takes the BRB powers for a more aggressive approach.

The TEQ is for CC fun, he rides in a LR with termies while carrying an ax + SS for character killing.

For durability, nothing beats TDA and stromshield. Granted its expensive but you can stand toe to toe with anyone. My last game I went 4 turns with Drago and not a scratch. Even took a wound off him iirc.

currently I run a drop pod heavy list which i plan on adding 3 stormtalons to. I chose the Libby because I don’t have a very powerful "deathstar unit" so a Chaplin wouldn't be very useful and a captain on his own doesn’t really do much.

Currently I plan on running something like this

Libby (do idea whats on him yet)

3x 10x Marines w/ Melta MM or Flamer ML in a DP

2x Dreads w/ MM HF DP
10x sternguard w/5x combi Melta DP

3x stormtalons with TL AC and Cyclone Missile Launcher

depending on upgrades this is close to 1850 points.

I am hoping the libby will synergies with my list but i have little experience with them

Humbaba wrote:currently I run a drop pod heavy list which i plan on adding 3 stormtalons to. I chose the Libby because I don’t have a very powerful "deathstar unit" so a Chaplin wouldn't be very useful and a captain on his own doesn’t really do much.

Currently I plan on running something like this

Libby (do idea whats on him yet)

3x 10x Marines w/ Melta MM or Flamer ML in a DP

2x Dreads w/ MM HF DP
10x sternguard w/5x combi Melta DP

3x stormtalons with TL AC and Cyclone Missile Launcher

depending on upgrades this is close to 1850 points.

I am hoping the libby will synergies with my list but i have little experience with them

I really like that list, though to be honest, Vulkan would suit it a lot better than a Libby.

Texanity wrote:You cant mix codex and BRB powers.

I LOVE librarians. What does the rest of your army look like currently? I have 3 librarian models, two are MEQ and one is TEQ.

I like to use the MEQ ones in combination, one takes the codex powers (gate of infinty for my sternguard) and the other takes the BRB powers for a more aggressive approach.

The TEQ is for CC fun, he rides in a LR with termies while carrying an ax + SS for character killing.

Please give me a page number that says I have to trade both in.

It says that you may trade in Psychic Powers for Ones in the BRB. As far as the local store i've been in has been playing it, you can take a power from the book and keep a power from the codex.

Crazyterran wrote:

Texanity wrote:You cant mix codex and BRB powers.

I LOVE librarians. What does the rest of your army look like currently? I have 3 librarian models, two are MEQ and one is TEQ.

I like to use the MEQ ones in combination, one takes the codex powers (gate of infinty for my sternguard) and the other takes the BRB powers for a more aggressive approach.

The TEQ is for CC fun, he rides in a LR with termies while carrying an ax + SS for character killing.

Please give me a page number that says I have to trade both in.

It says that you may trade in Psychic Powers for Ones in the BRB. As far as the local store i've been in has been playing it, you can take a power from the book and keep a power from the codex.

Go read the FAQ.

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:

Texanity wrote:You cant mix codex and BRB powers.

I LOVE librarians. What does the rest of your army look like currently? I have 3 librarian models, two are MEQ and one is TEQ.

I like to use the MEQ ones in combination, one takes the codex powers (gate of infinty for my sternguard) and the other takes the BRB powers for a more aggressive approach.

The TEQ is for CC fun, he rides in a LR with termies while carrying an ax + SS for character killing.

Please give me a page number that says I have to trade both in.

It says that you may trade in Psychic Powers for Ones in the BRB. As far as the local store i've been in has been playing it, you can take a power from the book and keep a power from the codex.

Go read the FAQ.

Actually, this is a good thing. Heh.

It's even better now that I've read the Blood Angels one. People with Mephiston generating 3 powers, when he's only allowed to Generate 2.

That's what I get for not reading the Blood Angels FAQ (or paying attention to the Psychic Power one in my FAQ sitting in my codex >.&gt

Humbaba wrote:currently I run a drop pod heavy list which i plan on adding 3 stormtalons to. I chose the Libby because I don’t have a very powerful "deathstar unit" so a Chaplin wouldn't be very useful and a captain on his own doesn’t really do much.

Currently I plan on running something like this

Libby (do idea whats on him yet)

3x 10x Marines w/ Melta MM or Flamer ML in a DP

2x Dreads w/ MM HF DP
10x sternguard w/5x combi Melta DP

3x stormtalons with TL AC and Cyclone Missile Launcher

depending on upgrades this is close to 1850 points.

I am hoping the libby will synergies with my list but i have little experience with them

My favorite way of running a librarian is bare bones, 100 points, with gate and null, attached to my sternguard. Blip around boltering things with special ammo. You get a lot of milage out of minimum points. His job is not to be some overpowered beatstick, but to let my sternguard work at peak efficiency.

Bare. Take a 100 point Libby. Even with the 6th ed. powers, I prefer taking Null Zone + The Avenger. (I may feel differently if he was allowed to take Divination ).

Put him in/around low AP shooting and CC attacks. Force your opponent's saves to invulnerables and pop Null Zone. That ability is good against so many things...

And Avenger is a MEQ killing HF. It can randomly steal games sometimes.

And the cheap psychic protection is always welcome. I think bare Libby's are the best generic HQ in the vanilla codex by far.

Echoing what many others have said, there are really two good ways to run a Librarian - bare bones for 100pts, or TDA + SS for 140pts. Epistolary generally isn't worth the points. If you're taking SM powers, Avenger+Null Zone is the best, or Gate of Infinity if you're running him with Sternguard. For BRB powers, Telekinesis and Telepathy are both good.

Thanks for all the replys guys I will try both of these setups in my next couple games, and also prolly vulcan. The only reason I have not yet used him is that my marines are all raven Guard so hes not really fluffy, but i can just use him as a counts as model.

You'd need to know you were facing the right opponent, but - a Smiting, Null Zoning Epistolary can work wonders against TH/SS Termies. You need to run this in Termie armour yourself though, to face the inevitable backlash.

Super Ready wrote:You'd need to know you were facing the right opponent, but - a Smiting, Null Zoning Epistolary can work wonders against TH/SS Termies. You need to run this in Termie armour yourself though, to face the inevitable backlash.

Um ...

A Smiting, Null Zoning Epistolary will kill 0.62 TH/SS Terminators, on average, factoring in Psychic Tests, Deny the Witch, to Hit, to Wound, and Null Zoned 3++ saves. I don't think that's working wonders, and it's definitely not a reason to blow 50 points on Epistolary. I'd rather use Null Zone from a safe distance and then hit the termies with plasma and other AP2 fire.

On the topic of librarian gear, what are people using for force weapons these days? One of my problems with them is your basic S4 librarian doesn't have a good chance laying a wound on something to even let him make the check to instant kill it. Before the only good option was might of the ancients, but that necessitated the epistolary upgrade, as you'd need to use two powers in the turn.

Now the force staff seems a good bet. Yes, they are probably getting their armor save, but you have a much better chance of wounding. The force axe also has potential. I'm a WYSWYG guy, so my options are set, but what are the rest of you running out there?

My TDA Libby is as it came out of the packet with the staff and I'm reluctant to start hacking up a finished mini.

That said, knowing how durable he is with a SS as well, if I was building him again it would be an axe, no question.

If I didn't have an inv save though, I would be keen to keep him striking at I, so sword or staff would be my decision.

well the model i will use for my libby has an ax so ima stick with that

I really like the Staff (Force Stave). The +2 power makes it easier to wound. It also makes it useful against light armor vehicles. And Concussive is pretty good too. He's a T4 character with no invulnerable save and no Eternal Warrior, so striking at full initiative is important to me.

I have had good succes with a SS/TDA libby, just be sure to give him and axe or something, not a staff.
And get Biomancy,

my SS/TDA Libby has a Halberd i made from an old Company Champion's blade/guard and the staff part of the staff he holds.

Metal models can suck at times, but it looks pretty badass.

And I was lazy so cut up a base to make the Storm Shield for him. It's just a circular shield with an aquila glued on.

Depending on your opponent, pick different trees. Versus a Horde Ork Army with little vehicles, Biomancy isn't as useful as say, Pyromancy. Or even Telepathy. You know how awesome it can be to strip fearless off a unit of Boyz, then beat them in combat by a hefty amount? Though, this is generally better when your libby *isnt* in Terminator Armour...

I converted my libby to have a force scythe made from the blade of a vampire count cairn wraith (filling in the holes to stop it being nurgly)

I found the pyromancy discipline worked really effectively against my brothers' guard, I also got lucky and rolled iron arm on the biomancy discipline, I could help but laugh as he could do nothing to stop a T7 librarian running at his line (his squad was killed of by Yarrick )

I just converted my Librarian terminator to have an axe. I shortened the staff handle with a cut and shut, twisted it a bit so the shaft decorations lined up more or less. The axe from the Wolf Guard terminators donated its head for the rune engraved axe look.

In power armour, and given that MEQ are the most common enemy, I'd take a sword.

In power armour, null zone and avenger.
In power armour on bike, null zone and vortex of doom. Relentless is very good.
In terminator armour, null zone and gate of infinity.

Roboute wrote:

Super Ready wrote:You'd need to know you were facing the right opponent, but - a Smiting, Null Zoning Epistolary can work wonders against TH/SS Termies. You need to run this in Termie armour yourself though, to face the inevitable backlash.

Um ...

A Smiting, Null Zoning Epistolary will kill 0.62 TH/SS Terminators, on average, factoring in Psychic Tests, Deny the Witch, to Hit, to Wound, and Null Zoned 3++ saves. I don't think that's working wonders, and it's definitely not a reason to blow 50 points on Epistolary. I'd rather use Null Zone from a safe distance and then hit the termies with plasma and other AP2 fire.

Perhaps the mathhammer numbers aren't with me, but I've had better results than that. Anecdotally, mind, so perhaps not that useful.

I'm confused here, it was to my understanding that the codex powers don't get used anymore and the table in the back of the 6th ed rulebook is what is now used to determine powers, but this is not how it works?

You can still use Codex powers if you wish, or trade in for the new rulebook powers. But if you do trade in, you must trade ALL that model's powers in - you can't pick from both.
The exception is the Grey Knights' Hammerhand power, you're not allowed to trade that one in at all.

I'll roll for powers when they pry the codex from my cold, dead fingers.

I equip my librarian for a specific role, and his powers are part of that. Having to roll them randomly is like spinning the wheel for devastator squads.

"Hmm, the quartermaster issued us 2 lascannons, a heavy bolter, and a fish. I guess we are mostly hunting tanks today, while Brother Markus will bounce bolter rounds off of vehicles, and Brother Octavius eats lunch. I hope the captain enjoys the tactical situation."

Vel'cona wrote:I'm confused here, it was to my understanding that the codex powers don't get used anymore and the table in the back of the 6th ed rulebook is what is now used to determine powers, but this is not how it works?

You still have all of your codex powers. You can choose to exchange them for BRB powers if you choose. If you do, you have to exchange all your powers; you can't take one Codex power and one BRB power.

Not all Psykers can take the BRB powers either. And not all armies have access to all the powers from the BRB. The Vanilla Marines can't take Divination, for example. Check your codex FAQ to see what (if any) powers your various Codex Psykers can take from the BRB, or check the chart that comes with the psychic power cards that GW put out.