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Now from the start i want you to know my opinion on Destroyers as they are, to me they are actually decent for what they do, regular destroyers kill MEQ's like nobodys buisness, and Heavy Destroyers can take out anything in the game...

BUT they are 40pts apiece... Sure they have a 3+ save and T5, but alas only have 1 wound and die horribly in CC like all necrons... They just seem to be overpriced....

Why do i say they are overpriced? Because Wraiths are 5pts cheaper and are sooooooooooo much better than destroyers....
And scarabs which are also better than destroyers are even cheaper, For Fast Attack choices for any Necron player the only choice worse then Destroyers are Tomb Blades....

Now i have an idea that i think would make Destroyers more appealing and more competative

My idea is to increase their wounds to 2, increase their Strength to 5, and increase their save to 2+

This would increase their survivabilty incredibly and they would be no joke in CC, and to me make it up to those 40pts they are already and in my opinion would put them on equal footing with Wraiths

A T5, 2W, 2+ save model with excellent shooting for only 40 points is way overpowered. Not even mentioning the Strength 5, which is unnessecary as Necrons are supposed to be weak in CC. Just increase the range of their guns to 36", which makes them stay out of the range of most small arms fire to do their killing. If that still isn't enough, then start giving them a 2+ save or 2W.

It's not that Destroyers, are bad, it's just that the other Necron FA is so good.

Lol wut? Let me get this straight, you want to give them an extra wound, str 5 and a 2+ save for no points increase at all? I say again, Lol wut?
Regular destroyers are great at taking out MEQ and quite decent at taking out vehicles as well. Have you ever considered that it might not be that destroyers are too expensive but that Wraiths might be undercosted?

Take for instance the Dark Reapers, they cost 35pts, have a str 5 AP 3 heavy 2 weapon. T3 and 3+. So for 5 more points you get assault 2, Gauss, +2T, +1Str, reanimation protocols, Jetbike movement, LD 10, Prefered enemy

To me as they are already is overcosted, thats a 40pt model without an invul save... Take any book and i guarantee you most models ubove 30pts have either an invul save, 2 wounds, or a 2+ save, all of which a Destroyer has not... A Space Marine Rhino is only 35pts and is more survivable, a Wraith is more survivable having 2 wounds and a 3+ invul and is only 35pts... Maybe the strength increase would be alittle too far but the 2+ save and 2 wounds give it better justice for 40pts... I'd take them over wraiths anyday if they atleast had 2 wounds, that alone would make them in my opinion worth the 40pts...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tedurur wrote:
Lol wut? Let me get this straight, you want to give them an extra wound, str 5 and a 2+ save for no points increase at all? I say again, Lol wut?
Regular destroyers are great at taking out MEQ and quite decent at taking out vehicles as well. Have you ever considered that it might not be that destroyers are too expensive but that Wraiths might be undercosted?

Take for instance the Dark Reapers, they cost 35pts, have a str 5 AP 3 heavy 2 weapon. T3 and 3+. So for 5 more points you get assault 2, Gauss, +2T, +1Str, reanimation protocols, Jetbike movement, LD 10, Prefered enemy

And they arn't jetbikes they are jump infantry now

Destroyers are plenty balanced for what you get. T5, JI, PE, RP, and an AP3 Assault weapon, that can strip hullpoints on a 6, is very good for 40 points. They are excellent at what they do, and are pretty survivable with T5, 3+, and RP. The only thing I would like, is a decrease in the points cost for Heavy Gauss Canons.

Honestly, Destroyers really are balanced. Just because it's 40 pts, doesn't mean it needs an invul save either, you can't place an arbitrary points threshold like that, there is no balance to it. I have plenty of models that cost over 40 points, with no invul save.

Also, comparing their points cost to Wraiths, is fairly silly. Wraiths are generally considered to be undercosted.

 Riddick40k wrote:
To me as they are already is overcosted, thats a 40pt model without an invul save... Take any book and i guarantee you most models ubove 30pts have either an invul save, 2 wounds, or a 2+ save, all of which a Destroyer has not...

Dark Reapers, Triarch Praetorians, Lychguard w. Warscythes, Sanguinary Priests, Jump Pack Vanguard vets, Klaivexes, Chaos Bikers.

 Riddick40k wrote:
To me as they are already is overcosted, thats a 40pt model without an invul save... Take any book and i guarantee you most models ubove 30pts have either an invul save, 2 wounds, or a 2+ save, all of which a Destroyer has not... A Space Marine Rhino is only 35pts and is more survivable, a Wraith is more survivable having 2 wounds and a 3+ invul and is only 35pts... Maybe the strength increase would be alittle too far but the 2+ save and 2 wounds give it better justice for 40pts... I'd take them over wraiths anyday if they atleast had 2 wounds, that alone would make them in my opinion worth the 40pts...

Then why on earth are you suggesting that they should get +1Str a 2+ save on top of that?? In addition to this a Destroyer is already somewhat more durable than a terminator vs str4 fire and 50% more survivable vs str 3 fire.

 Riddick40k wrote:

For Fast Attack choices for any Necron player the only choice worse then Destroyers are Tomb Blades....

The only thing worse than your solid gold mansion is your solid silver mansion. What a convincing argument.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Riddick40k wrote:

For Fast Attack choices for any Necron player the only choice worse then Destroyers are Tomb Blades....

The only thing worse than your solid gold mansion is your solid silver mansion. What a convincing argument.

Neither of these units are anywhere near as mediocre as you seem to think, however, you actually have to THINK to play Necrons, that may be your real problem.

In response to: Dark Reapers, Triarch Praetorians, Lychguard w. Warscythes, Sanguinary Priests, Jump Pack Vanguard vets, Klaivexes, Chaos Bikers.

Dark reapers are underpowered. Praetorians are underpowered even with HoW. Lychguard with Warscythes are a joke. Sangpriests have a 5+ invuln bubble that doesn't work against ID weapons, and that they get in addition to their normal save. JP VGV are overpriced and are explicitely broken in that there's no good way to price a unit of MEQ Turn-1 assaulters that can be anywhere on the map. Klaivexes are an upgrade on a 22-point model that brings the total killing power of the unit through the roof, with the ability to now take on any foes. Chaos Bikers are a joke outside of Nurgle, and again poorly represented because their mobility can't be put into points cost properly without breaking or busting them.

SO YOUR ARGUMENT IS FAIRLY BIASED, I FEEL, IN THIS CASE, AS IT'S INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST IN THAT THE UNITS YOU HAVE CHOSEN FOR EXAMPLE ARE CLEARLY OUTLIERS AND INTENTIONAL MISREPRESENTATIONS.

Either that or you just looked at a list of high-cost units without putting any thought into your post or addressing the issue, but let's be generous here.

Now, onto the issue. Do Destroyers need help? Yes. Is it going to be in the form of extra wounds or toughness or strength or save? No. Since you can't make them 37 points, I propose making them jet-pack infantry instead of Jump Infantry - allowing you to hide them behind your vehicles. I also recommend dropping the HD upgrade by 5 points regardless, or bumping it by 10 points and adding an extra wound.

They are good at what they do as about anything is: Forcing cover saves and wounds onto meq consistently and relatively safely, but sadly, what they do is not all that important. You've got a lot that kills men pretty reasonably and does other exciting things too without compromising too hard on the price.

I think it's a shame the way they were all pooped into the same entry, them and the heavies. Remember your destroyers can sit down now waddle into cover and the like. It's the sort of silliness that comes from GW not thinking about the ramifications of their rules/model reimplementing.

I wonder if this debate would all be solved by making their gun AP2. Remember when it was strength six? that was pretty cool too.

It's just a weird dumb unit that people aren't used to yet. It might be expensive but it does it's crappy job pretty well. Is it a job worth investing in? Would you rather have the Amaze-O options?

Anti Meq weaponry or dedicated units should be pretty efficient at their job if they aint going to score or do anything interesting. And Heavy destroyers are no longfangs either eh?

The problem isn't anything to do with Destroyers. I wouldn't even go as far as to say the problem is with Wraiths. The problem is with the costing of the Whipcoils Upgrade. I honestly think that if Whipcoils cost 15 ppm, if you had to either put whipcoils on all models or none of them, or possibly even both, that people would still use Wraiths, but there would be more competition for the FA slot (and our poor little Tomb Blades might actually see play). The solution to balance things isn't always to just make the less powerful things better, that is how power creep starts and gets out of control.

Frankly, I like em just the way they are. I do however, like their previous incarnation quite a bit better with the Oldcron destroyer having a 36" S6 AP4 Assault 3, Gauss weapon. Admittingly, I'll dare to say that the boosts to AP3 and the bonus of having PE: Everything! are worth the drop to S5 and Assault 2 , but drop the 36" range to 24"? No. I want my 36" range back. That is really my only complaint. But if you REALLY want more than that, I'd say give them W2 rather than Sv2+.

And they're quite competitive thank you very much (Just Wraiths and Scarabs seem to be much more attractive, especially Wraiths... which as a Cron player I'll even admit they're a bit undercosted)

I don't really see scarabs I the competitive lists anymore. Wraith are fielded the most, then destroyers. I camp them in cover because they attract a lot of AT weapon fire. They are plenty competitive, just fragile against las/ plas/ melta.

I would say, just make them less expensive, they're plenty killy, but at 40 points a model? no way. 60 points for what is basically a lascannon? Ridiculous
Maybe a 15 point reduction for regular ones, and ten less for the heavy upgrade

 iGuy91 wrote:
I would say, just make them less expensive, they're plenty killy, but at 40 points a model? no way. 60 points for what is basically a lascannon? Ridiculous
Maybe a 15 point reduction for regular ones, and ten less for the heavy upgrade

25 points for a regular destroyer would be stupid. I can't see them being cheaper than 35. You get a lot, for 40 points. AP3 and Lascannons you always pay a premieum for, but we're also paying for T5, Jump Infantry, RP, PE, Gauss...

 Sasori wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I would say, just make them less expensive, they're plenty killy, but at 40 points a model? no way. 60 points for what is basically a lascannon? Ridiculous
Maybe a 15 point reduction for regular ones, and ten less for the heavy upgrade

25 points for a regular destroyer would be stupid. I can't see them being cheaper than 35. You get a lot, for 40 points. AP3 and Lascannons you always pay a premieum for, but we're also paying for T5, Jump Infantry, RP, PE, Gauss...

Eh, perhaps I went too cheap, maybe 30, then 45 for a heavy?

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
I would say, just make them less expensive, they're plenty killy, but at 40 points a model? no way. 60 points for what is basically a lascannon? Ridiculous
Maybe a 15 point reduction for regular ones, and ten less for the heavy upgrade

25 points for a regular destroyer would be stupid. I can't see them being cheaper than 35. You get a lot, for 40 points. AP3 and Lascannons you always pay a premieum for, but we're also paying for T5, Jump Infantry, RP, PE, Gauss...

Eh, perhaps I went too cheap, maybe 30, then 45 for a heavy?

I'd Say 35 and 45 would be about right. I think GW puts too much value on the price of a Lascannon personally, which is a problem across every dex.

Putting the Destroyer down to 45 has the problem of loading too much power into too little cost; I ran into a similar problem with my Tau Sniper Suits. At 70 points for 2 wounds, I feel you get what you pay for damage and survivability-wise; a T5 longfang with 2 wounds and a lascannon.

 Riddick40k wrote:
To me as they are already is overcosted, thats a 40pt model without an invul save... Take any book and i guarantee you most models ubove 30pts have either an invul save, 2 wounds, or a 2+ save

you've not looked in the Tyranid Codex have you?


Cus i play nids, and i've never heard of an "Invunerable Save". All i got is 6 wounds at Toughness 6 for 200 points

 Bloodhorror wrote:

 Riddick40k wrote:
To me as they are already is overcosted, thats a 40pt model without an invul save... Take any book and i guarantee you most models ubove 30pts have either an invul save, 2 wounds, or a 2+ save

you've not looked in the Tyranid Codex have you?


Cus i play nids, and i've never heard of an "Invunerable Save". All i got is 6 wounds at Toughness 6 for 200 points

Zoanthropes?

Didn't Zoans used to be like slower heavy destroyers with a shorter ranged gun that you had to test for and less movement?

I feel like we are getting bogged down in bickering here.

Okay, so 1 model out of the whole Codex.

Heavy Destroyers and any none vehicle with a lascannon land at near the same effectiveness of hits vs cost. They are more cost effective than IG heavy teams. Except of course, 12" less range, on a T5 3+ save 12" move platform.
Outside of long fangs, they do better than most things with lascannons.

The lack of use of destroyers says more about the cost of other choices than the effectiveness of destroyers.

Oh, and don't talk smack about my reapers. Reapers with exarch in a Bastion are the gak. 8 S5 AP3 shots on my turn + 2 S4 AP3 blasts, and then 2 Shot BS5 Icarus Lascannon during your turn.
Reaper exarch is the single best model in the game to man that Interceptor lascannon.

-Matt

I am actually finding destroyers to be fairly useful in this edition. The trick is to have a combination of heavies and normals.
I personally run 2 heavies with 2 normals, and I am finding they work rather well.

And Tomb blades are evil if you give them all particle beamers.

I hate dark reapers. I have bad memories of their 36" range AP3 weapons.

Zoans, Doom and swarmlord all get invun saves, but yes it is slightly stupid with the amount of ap 1 & 2 weapons others get.

I've found that destroyers can be great, but run out of points for them due to buying scythes and anhillation barges. The heavy option shouldn't be as much. The only real problem with them is the price like people have said, because they are a pretty balanced unit overall.

I second Sasori here. Destroyers are a very useful unit, their only downfall is the 24'' range as most of the time, they'll die after shooting in your turn. Increase their range to 31'' or more aka 36'' and they are fine. (why 31? Normal infantry threat range is 30'').

Heavy Destroyers are too expensive, yes. 50 points would be fair. At the same time, though, they are very effective units...S9 AP2 shots with 36'' range are damn good especially now that you hit most of the time. Popped 2 land raiders yesterday with a squad of 3 Heavy Destroyers. They work really well vs that AV 14 stuff and especially those dreaded terminators everyone seems to start running again now in our local meta...good thing I got my Destrocourt and Heavy Destroyers taking names and kicking ass.

Deystroyers are fine as they are, but if I were to make any changes I'd consider at most two of the following.

1. Have the destroyers come with Nebuloscopes as standard.

2. Increase the Gauss Cannon range back to 36"

3. Add more weapon options (they are constantly modifying their bodies to be more effieceint killers afterall), something along the lines of:-
Tesla Cannon - Free
Particle Beamer - 5pts/model
Heavy Gauss Cannon - 15pts/model
Tesla Destructor - 15pts/model
Particle Shredder - 25pts/model

4. Make it so that the whole unit can swap their weapons, as it stands I doubt paying 300pts for a unit of 5 mobile lascannons would be overpowering.

Just my 2p on the matter

The first one I'm a bit meh on but I agree with the rest

Xirmant wrote:
Deystroyers are fine as they are, but if I were to make any changes I'd consider at most two of the following.

1. Have the destroyers come with Nebuloscopes as standard.

2. Increase the Gauss Cannon range back to 36"

3. Add more weapon options (they are constantly modifying their bodies to be more effieceint killers afterall), something along the lines of:-
Tesla Cannon - Free
Particle Beamer - 5pts/model
Heavy Gauss Cannon - 15pts/model
Tesla Destructor - 15pts/model
Particle Shredder - 25pts/model

4. Make it so that the whole unit can swap their weapons, as it stands I doubt paying 300pts for a unit of 5 mobile lascannons would be overpowering.

Just my 2p on the matter

Now this i can agree with

This would add some much needed conversion options for necrons