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It's so.......similar to the last one. No new Special Characters, the current special characters are almost exactly the same, the new units are okay. But two new plastic kits, still no cult units other than the Marines, the marks all do basically the same thing, the cult units have the same options, nothing creative at all with the standard vehicles, one of the "new" units is just a different version of an obliterators, the other a different raptor.

I am pretty disappointed.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440294a&prodId=prod520001a

Here be Dragons!

 Griever wrote:
It's so.......similar to the last one. No new Special Characters, the current special characters are almost exactly the same, the new units are okay. But two new plastic kits, still no cult units other than the Marines, the marks all do basically the same thing, the cult units have the same options, nothing creative at all with the standard vehicles, one of the "new" units is just a different version of an obliterators, the other a different raptor.

I am pretty disappointed.

Obviously to sell Heldrakes and Fiendamabobs.

I think people's expectations were a codex which would be of similar level to Grey knights and Necrons, whilst I can understand this could be disappointing, they are doing the same thing they did with fantasy, the new edition books set a new balance level. If you look at all the 8th edition new fantasy books they are all very good and balance well against each other, im sure this will be the trend with the future 40k book trends.

The new book is not designed to be a overpowerd book, it is designed to have great level of balance and flexibility with which to set the balance tone for the rest of the books to come and I think it succeeds.

I agree. Armies usually have a defining mechanic or army wide special rules. I sort of thought Chaos would get assault-rhinos or more force org switching options.

I don't think the OP is remarking about the perceived competitive level of the new codex so much as the lack of creativity in it.

Shinzra wrote:
I think people's expectations were a codex which would be of similar level to Grey knights and Necrons, whilst I can understand this could be disappointing, they are doing the same thing they did with fantasy, the new edition books set a new balance level. If you look at all the 8th edition new fantasy books they are all very good and balance well against each other, im sure this will be the trend with the future 40k book trends.

The new book is not designed to be a overpowerd book, it is designed to have great level of balance and flexibility with which to set the balance tone for the rest of the books to come and I think it succeeds.

Balance and flexibility is good and all, but the chaos book is very bland.

I think the last codex that came out that was like wow awesome, while still being well balanced and flexible was the DE codex.

Many would argue that dark eldar when it first came out were very balanced, however with 6th edition they are now under par. You have to remember this is the 1st 6th edition book, ( necrons was with 6th in mind but still a 5th book), it WILL set the tone for all future books and I will be expecting future books to have a similar level of power.

Its not really the power level as a few people have said, its just that its a bland book, it feels like its missing something.

Dark Eldar and Balanced?

Does not compute.

Dark Eldar is the very definition of you can have any colour you want, as long as it's Venom-Spam.

Venom spam might be a common netlist but out of several comps Iv been to that had DE players I only saw one person use venom spam, and they did not place well at all.

 Xeriapt wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
I think people's expectations were a codex which would be of similar level to Grey knights and Necrons, whilst I can understand this could be disappointing, they are doing the same thing they did with fantasy, the new edition books set a new balance level. If you look at all the 8th edition new fantasy books they are all very good and balance well against each other, im sure this will be the trend with the future 40k book trends.

The new book is not designed to be a overpowerd book, it is designed to have great level of balance and flexibility with which to set the balance tone for the rest of the books to come and I think it succeeds.

Balance and flexibility is good and all, but the chaos book is very bland.

I think the last codex that came out that was like wow awesome, while still being well balanced and flexible was the DE codex.

Many of us do feel like it was wasted creativity, so much that could've been done for marks for things that don't benefit from them (Why would you use Slaanesh for obliterators?) Marks for Vehicles (Even Forgeworld figured this out!) Better options for the DP (Oh hey when I assault through cover it's at I1, thanks, and don't benefit from marks), increased wargear options for characters (Lord being able to take mechatendrils for example, this would've gone a long way to placating fans by actually adding wargear) More daemon weapons (WHY IS THERE NOW JUST TWO WITH ONE MARK SPECIFIC, THIS IS )

I was hoping for some rules for legion like iron warriors, alpha legion etc, but nothing for this side. That's my biggest disapointement for the codex.

As apparently some people didn't get it, this has nothing to do with how "competitive" I think this codex is. It's just boring.

It makes me miss Matt Ward :(

I believe that word out of games day explicitly stated that the goal of this codex was to make what the 4th ed book should have been. Essentially making the Chaos Marine codex that they wanted to for all this time, but never could.

Its the wave of the future, if every new book comes out as (apparently) balanced, optionful, and diverse as this then we are in for a good time.

The thing is that with a lot of the codecs coming out of late being complete remakes, I think people thought they would completely revamp this one. It is more of an update and re balancing rather than a complete revamp. I think some people's expectations were just to high and expected a revamp after seeing the newest codecs.

 Lightcavalier wrote:
I believe that word out of games day explicitly stated that the goal of this codex was to make what the 4th ed book should have been. Essentially making the Chaos Marine codex that they wanted to for all this time, but never could.

Its the wave of the future, if every new book comes out as (apparently) balanced, optionful, and diverse as this then we are in for a good time.

How so? It's exactly the same!

Shinzra wrote:
I think people's expectations were a codex which would be of similar level to Grey knights and Necrons, whilst I can understand this could be disappointing, they are doing the same thing they did with fantasy, the new edition books set a new balance level. If you look at all the 8th edition new fantasy books they are all very good and balance well against each other, im sure this will be the trend with the future 40k book trends.

The new book is not designed to be a overpowerd book, it is designed to have great level of balance and flexibility with which to set the balance tone for the rest of the books to come and I think it succeeds.

So all the new 6th ed codex's will be at this lvl?
All the overpowered codex's will remain like that?
Till they get a new codex. And how long will that take.

I call this the missed opportunity codex.

Thousand sons put on hold

 loki old fart wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
I think people's expectations were a codex which would be of similar level to Grey knights and Necrons, whilst I can understand this could be disappointing, they are doing the same thing they did with fantasy, the new edition books set a new balance level. If you look at all the 8th edition new fantasy books they are all very good and balance well against each other, im sure this will be the trend with the future 40k book trends.

The new book is not designed to be a overpowerd book, it is designed to have great level of balance and flexibility with which to set the balance tone for the rest of the books to come and I think it succeeds.

So all the new 6th ed codex's will be at this lvl?
All the overpowered codex's will remain like that?
Till they get a new codex. And how long will that take.

Here is looking forward to a new GK codex that makes you chose 1 grenade to throw into combat not santa claus with 6 "gifts" for every combat.

 Lightcavalier wrote:

Its the wave of the future, if every new book comes out as (apparently) balanced, optionful, and diverse as this then we are in for a good time.

I'll second this. I'd be more than happy if my new 'dex had some units reduced in price, some increased, a few new and a sprinkling of USRs.

 Testify wrote:

 Lightcavalier wrote:

Its the wave of the future, if every new book comes out as (apparently) balanced, optionful, and diverse as this then we are in for a good time.

I'll second this. I'd be more than happy if my new 'dex had some units reduced in price, some increased, a few new and a sprinkling of USRs.

Only if the average person can afford playing this game, otherwise more defections to other game companies or quitting the hobby all together.

 Griever wrote:

 Lightcavalier wrote:
I believe that word out of games day explicitly stated that the goal of this codex was to make what the 4th ed book should have been. Essentially making the Chaos Marine codex that they wanted to for all this time, but never could.

Its the wave of the future, if every new book comes out as (apparently) balanced, optionful, and diverse as this then we are in for a good time.

How so? It's exactly the same!

I dunno, honestly I'd like to see every codex like this. Maybe add a few more cool units, but keep the core of it the same. Making a new codex doesn't mean it needs to drastically change what the army did in the previous edition, it needs to bring it in line with modern standards. Honestly, I think the codices that did get a major revamp deserved it, but it seems to me that Chaos is and was pretty well-fleshed out. In comparison, look at some of those older codices. Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, Necrons. I admit I don't know the older codices that well, but unless I'm mistaken, Dark Eldar had all of 2 special characters to choose from, and I think one or two HQ choices. Now they've got a decent handful of both. Same with Grey Knights - I believe it was a Brother-Captain or a Grandmaster, and that was it; now they have Librarians, some kind of lesser HQ, and a decent chunk of special characters to choose from.

Compare that to Chaos Space Marines, both 4e and 6e. 4e already had a ton of special characters to pick from (all of which seem to have made it into the new codex - need I remind you of the lovingly titled Kruellagh the Vile from Dark Eldar?) and a few options for HQs, plus units to fill each and every slot. The 6e codex didn't need to do much...it just had to bring it up to the normal 6e point levels and gear loadouts, push it a little bit further away from Space Marines, and give it some shiny new toys to play with.

Plus, y'know, I have to ask this...would you rather Chaos stuck with the 4th edition book? I mean, if the new one is truly pointless since it didn't add any major players or drastically change the army, then shouldn't the old one be just fine?

Another thing to consider is that both Grey Knights and Necrons were working with much, much older books. They needed to add a bunch of things and overhaul the book because they were 3e books and they must have known 6e was on the horizon. I mean, there weren't even all that many units period. The last Chaos book was half as long ago and had quite a glut of units. From a pure design perspective, if you're going to adding new units on top, you simply don't have enough space inside the book to shift any unit from its existing role all that much.

Well, I know this is not really allowed to be asked, but are there cultists in the Codex?

Yes, they're in the codex.

This book makes me sad,not just from a competitive point but also from a flexibility point as well as others have said. Loyalists get all bike, assault, and terminator armies, why cant we. People say we have a lot of wargear options but loyalist still get about the same, and in other areas better (TH/SS & SB). We don't even have drop pods or rhino or land raider variants. For people who don't follow the Codex Artes we are way more constricted than the loyalist.

I think the idea with this new codex was that you could build alot of different flavour chaos armies that are all equally usabvle.

it feels like more of a troops army now too and i lik ethat with vechicles as support.

Fluf wise i dunno, i skipped all that because i have read it all before and i was really only interested in the units designs and list building to see what i could do with my old chaos stuff and what new stuff would make a good mix.

Just give the dex some time to be played and tinkered with, i'm sure you'll find interesting combinations after some play time

 Xeriapt wrote:

Shinzra wrote:
I think people's expectations were a codex which would be of similar level to Grey knights and Necrons, whilst I can understand this could be disappointing, they are doing the same thing they did with fantasy, the new edition books set a new balance level. If you look at all the 8th edition new fantasy books they are all very good and balance well against each other, im sure this will be the trend with the future 40k book trends.

The new book is not designed to be a overpowerd book, it is designed to have great level of balance and flexibility with which to set the balance tone for the rest of the books to come and I think it succeeds.

Balance and flexibility is good and all, but the chaos book is very bland.

I think the last codex that came out that was like wow awesome, while still being well balanced and flexible was the DE codex.

You mean the 3.5 or the 4th ed one? Cause the 4th ed one was just spiky Dark Angels. (Or "When Marine gone wild" whatever you call it)

Chaos Codex, how thick are you?
___ Pages sir
I didn't know they stacked gak that high!

It still has the same problems, and the same general dynamic. I haven't had a personal look yet, but the new raptors really don't fix the problem, which is a massive dependence on HS options. They literally did nothing but give CSM some big, fat Ice around their necks, and some gold rings for their fingers.