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Having a few hours spare while the laundry washes I got to wondering what impact the Kickstarter has had on the miniature buyers amongst us

so I made a table breaking it down

Kingdom Death Forsaker June 2009 1741

A Band of Orcs Official Gaming Miniatures August 2011 6041
Scotlings Team Miniatures September 2011 4562
DreamForge-Games - Project Eisenkern November 2011 5943
Effigy Miniatures: Sci-fi & Fantasy November 2011 3690
Apes of Wrath FF Team December 2011 5206


Crossover Miniatures - A New Superhero Miniature Line January 2012 5620
Exile Sun - Miniatures! February 2012 16934
DeepWars - Tabletop Combat in the Abyssal Depths March 2012 18988
Zombicide May 2012 781597
Sedition Wars: Battle for Alabaster June 2012 951254
Kings of War June 2012 354997
StarFire Command Space Fleet Miniatures War Game July 2012 12527
Dwarven Adventurers Box Set July 2012 136487
Goalsystem Delves August 2012 13440
Morland Studios 54mm Miniatures August 2012 5110
Red Box Games' Fantasy Miniatures!!! August 2012 80676
Necronomicon: Cthulhu Mythos Miniatures August 2012 9838
Reaper Miniatures Bones: August 2012 3429235
Little Urban Achievers - 28mm Miniatures August 2012 10500
Tentacles & Eyeballs: An RPG Horror Miniatures Set September 2012 24826
Ice Hockey Miniatures Set September 2012 3529
DreamForge-Games model kit. September 2012 205971
Low Life Miniatures September 2012 52966
Urdaggar Tribes of Valor Fantasy Miniatures September 2012 6603
DreadBall - The Futuristic Sports Game September 2012 728985
Relic Knights September 2012 909537
Effigy Miniatures - Havoc Protocol Sci-Fi Miniatures October 2012 5250
Dwarf Gladiators October 2012 13034
28mm Demons & Devils - Center Stage Miniatures October 2012 66569
Bombshell Babes October 2012 140058
Judge Dredd Miniatures Game: Block War October 2012 101457
Endless - A Tactical Fantasy Miniatures Game November 2012 23783
The great squid demon of chaos miniature! November 2012 2457
Chibi Dungeon Adventurers November 2012 105099
Hell on Earth Miniature Mega-Release! November 2012 50000
Assimilation Alien Host November 2012 54090
Loud Ninja Games - Space Raptors! November 2012 7499

Oh well that looks really ugly and unreadable, but I don't seem to be able to make it any better on the forum software

but the totals are
2009 = $1741
2010 = $0
2011 = $25443
2012 = $8328916 + 346783 = 8675699


thats a huge explosion of money coming into the industry, some will represent money not spent elsewhere, but a lot is new money coming from people who are new to miniatures or who are re-entering the field (and it doesn't include money spent on Indiegogo which I'll do later if I have time).



Edit I've added date from indiegogo

Weird West Miniatures 01/05/12 3570
Greebo: Nippo Goblin and Turtles 01/09/12 10250
Infamy Miniatures IndieGoGo Project 01/07/12 3985
Pirate Goblins Box Set 01/09/12 5643
28mm Plastic Multi-part Zombie Miniatures by Studio Miniatur 01/09/12 12626
Wolsung Steampunk Skirmish Game 01/10/12 15130
Avatars of War Dwarf Army 01/06/12 39975
Morgraur-Rashaar Carnivale 01/10/12 9857
Otherworld Miniatures - Dungeon Adventurers 01/10/12 55731
Dark Potential's First Miniatures 01/05/12 89849
Drakskull's Menace 01/08/12 16458
Freebooter's Fate Legends Miniature set 01/11/12 83709

Total = 346783

so final total this year so far = $8675699

Very interesting... but I am also curious if while we see close to 8.5 mil going to KS, some of us have to be changing our spending habits and it has to be impacting someone else.

If that 8.5mil has been spent in place of FLGS purchases or GW/PP purchases, we may see a very bleak economic forecast for those stores and companies.

We can all hope that maybe this 8.5mil is 'new cash' of new customers and new people to the fanbase and not look at it as a zero sum but I know that I can tell you my KS purchases directly took away from my more mainstream purchases and FLGS purchases. If a lot of people were like me, it is possible someone lost a crapton of money this upcoming christmas.

Well I've mainly spent money I'd otherwise have spent on things like the cinema and books, with a side order of diverted internet spending

but then my FLGS is not actually very friendly, I do have a GW too but apart from the occasional paint I don't buy much there.

I know a couple of other KS 'addicts' personally, one is a hobby returnee, and one has pretty much stopped shopping in store or online for the lure of 'more stuff when it actually arrives'

All of my Kickstarter purchases have been things my flgs wouldn't stock.

1) Brushfire kickstarter - 60 dollars - My flgs doesn't carry Brushfire, so I used it as a way to get the game into my flgs.

2) Tectonic Craft Studios - 30 dollars - Bought a tournament tray, which my flgs doesn't stock, though a guy has started making his own within the past two months

3) Tentacle Bento - 40 dollars - Enough said...

4) Reaper Bones - 135 dollars - My flgs has plenty of reaper figs, but they're mostly the pathfinder player character models, and I have most of those... :-/

5) Evil Baby Orphanage - 40 dollars - The store I demo Malifaux at has some Malifaux stuff, but EBO was more or less a gag kickstarter for me. It's a way to kill time, and I don't see it being stocked as is.

6) Endless: Fantasy Tactics - 330 - Love the look and feel of the game, and if I get my hands on all 6 starter chests, I can demo the hell out of this game at my flgs


So yeah, it's all been stuff that my flgs wouldn't stock for the most part.

After what I've spent on KS for both the Kings of War and Reaper Bones events, I have sworn off of it for now. I MIGHT be lured back by the Mantic Warpath KS next year, but I won't be splurging to the level that I did.

All further moneys are going back to FLGS. After the first few successes, companies just began rapid firing those things out and there was no reason to keep sinking money into product I'm not going to see for up to 12 months. That and I've already got waaaaaaaaay too much sitting on the docket as far as what needs to be painted/assembled.

My total kickstarter spend ever so far is
Boss Monster - $55

(First and only KS )

Would have been more, but I missed out on the Zombicide and Evil Baby Orphanage ones...

200$ for the avatars of wars project on Indiegogo.

You shouldn't forget the non-kickstarter sites like indiegogo. Europeans cannot open project on kickstarter, so they have their own sites.
TItan Forge and AoW each made about 40,000$ each, which isn't too shabby.

RoninXiC wrote:
200$ for the avatars of wars project on Indiegogo.

You shouldn't forget the non-kickstarter sites like indiegogo. Europeans cannot open project on kickstarter, so they have their own sites.
TItan Forge and AoW each made about 40,000$ each, which isn't too shabby.

How did Mantic get away with this then? They're still based in the UK right?

It's been quiet for me on the KS front, with three projects for me, there may be a fourth in form of the Malifaux RPG. I've spent money on the Zombicide Abomination deal, Bombshell Babes with a $100 pledge and Blackwater Gulch with a $60 pledge, which has recently kicked off a second campaign and while it has some nice rewards, I refuse to chip in until I get the goods from the first campaign. But yeah, I've been careful with the spending of my money of KS projects.

 Alfndrate wrote:

RoninXiC wrote:
200$ for the avatars of wars project on Indiegogo.

You shouldn't forget the non-kickstarter sites like indiegogo. Europeans cannot open project on kickstarter, so they have their own sites.
TItan Forge and AoW each made about 40,000$ each, which isn't too shabby.

How did Mantic get away with this then? They're still based in the UK right?

Europeans can indeed start a kickstarter if they have a US mailing address and a US bank account. There are some other qualifications I don't recall right now but those are the biggest two that would hinder a European or any other non-United States based person / company from running a kickstarter. Hopefully all of this changes soon.


My significant Kickstarter contributions have gone to:

Zombiecide
Sedition Wars
Xenonauts
Project Eternity
Quest for Infamy
Two guys from Andromeda Space Venture

I am also curious to see how this trend continues should companies fail to produce or 'under produce' where they make products people are unhappy with. Other Communities are having a lot of buyers remorse or vaporware pop up, so I am just curious how that may hit us.

A lot of unknowns how this will change wargaming companies in general and how or if this will impact FLGSs.

If a big project vanishes in a puff of smoke I'm sure there will be a backlash

However if a few (even quite a few) folk don't like the sculpts that come out of the art (or in some cases from just a short text description) I don't think it will be a big hinderance.

What may be a bigger problem (and we're seening more and more on the KS comments)

is a demand for 'instant' value (ie a belief that any project can begin by giving away as much as Bones or Sedition Wars without achiving any stretch goals

and demands for 'Trade ins'......sometimes reasonable if the KS includes already relased product or rule books... Often extremly unreasonable like suggesting trading in PDFs for lots or credit, or asking to trade in a faction in in bits (so for more than it cost as a whole bundle) then rebuying it and repeating the process

I've seen some pretty nasty stuff said when a project creator has said no trades

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
II've seen some pretty nasty stuff said when a project creator has said no trades

Examples?

I was excited like many when all these cool Kickstarter thingymebobs started appearing on Dakka and quickly put over $300 on Zombiecide and Sedition Wars but found that I was bored by the concept when the realities of distant forfillment and the agrivation of customs charges kicked in.

While is don't consider that a huge amount of money in retrospect it was more than I would normally put down for unknown quality games and waiting is a bummer especially now I have part of my "gift".

The final Nail in my KS coffin is the realisation that although KS pumps biggish orders to the developers (which they deserve) it does take the middle men out (games stores) that are important to the development and continuation of gaming as well as a richer player base for whatever game I got through KS.

Actually the final final nail in my KS coffin is the realisation that $8.5M has be spent through KS and 10% of that has left the community as fees to KS. The gaming community is literally poorer for KS's influence which I would suggest would otherwise be taken up by FLGs and distributors.

So yeah no more for me even the massive Judge Dredd one. In any other situation I would sell my left bollock for anything out of the ordinary related to Joe Dredd - like a Manta Prowl Tank!

I spent $235 on KoW and a further $260 (I think) on Dreadball. I was sad to miss the Zombicide one (bought the game last night at my FGS) and the Reaper one though. I'm hording dollars for the Warpath one. Other than that, I haven't felt the pulling clutches of KS.

I probably dropped about $600 on them between Dreadball, Troll Forge, and Endless Tactics. Sadly that's just been $600 *more* I've spent on the hobby than I otherwise would have, although it's starting to really lessen my desire to buy GW product.

RoninXiC wrote:
200$ for the avatars of wars project on Indiegogo.

You shouldn't forget the non-kickstarter sites like indiegogo. Europeans cannot open project on kickstarter, so they have their own sites.
TItan Forge and AoW each made about 40,000$ each, which isn't too shabby.

I'm pretty sure that Kickstarter UK has now launched, as the 6d6 RPG proect launched on there at the end of October/start of November.

Not sure how UK companies managed this before then, though.

Yeah, kickstarter is now open for everyone in the UK. Before they did this, companies had to use tricks to act like they actually are from/in the US.

Two items:

100 dollars for a local moviehouse.
50 dollars for a friend's movie project.

Um, that's about it. I wanted to go in on Mantic's chibi fantasy
stuff, but found out too late.

uuh, what *chibi* fantasy stuff did mantic do? I think I've missed that!

uuh, SW we've got movement + some extras, more on KoW than I care to think about, same on Dreadball, Reaper Vampire with extras, DFG Leviathan (but no extras!), recently Trollforged's aliens and then a bunch of small projects. good heavens, I sold piles and piles of old stuff I never used anymore to fund it all; I really don't want to think too hard on the amount of cash that I've spent in total

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/674003445/classic-dungeon-adventurers-miniature-set-chibi-an/posts

My bad, not Mantic, but Impact.

Shows you how close I pay attention.

Super dungeon explore is the only chibi gaming stuff I've seen in the last few months and that isn't even mantic.

I've spent nothing. I'm not an alpha tester and I've scorched by "pre-orders" before.

I only wanted A team (singular) for Dreadball - not worth pledging for it when several others in my club will have them - and I can MAKE a game board for it. So I'm content to just get that on general release.

I already have what I want for Sedition Wars.

 chromedog wrote:
Super dungeon explore is the only chibi gaming stuff I've seen in the last few months and that isn't even mantic.

I clarified. Sorry!

Was impact!

Between Sedition Wars and Relic Knights, somewhere in the region of $1,000 I've pledged, plus I backed Tentecle Bento. Kickstarter is a great thing, but for established compaines like Reaper, Mantic, I don't think they should be using Kickstarter. The problem we have as hobbist's, is we like to collect, and we like to have limited edition stuff, and that's what draws us into pledging money on things like Kick Starter.

Im glad too see that im apparently the only person on Dakka who has absolutely zero self control...

I did a count from memory and have spent roughly $2600-$2800 on 16 miniature based Kickstarter/IndieGoGo campaigns since November 2011, and I've purchased around 1500 models so far. (Over 1000 of these models are coming from only 6 of the campaigns.)

$2600-$2800 might sound like a lot to spend in a year (And most likely is.), but i've had a decent amount of income to waste on the hobby ever since the embargo was announced and i stopped buying GW stuff.

The total spent is probably much higher than that too....every pledge I have done has included more add-ons that I have sent even more money in for. (IE - reaper - $100 bid + 220 add-on). (Dreadball....280 Bid + too much to mention add-on ;-p) All of this was non-gaming budget reductions for me personally (IE I pared back movies, computer games, eating out, etc.) I did plan it all out and while I added on a lot....I still paid all the bills and fed the kids and the Mrs. That being said in order to budget more, It'll have to be a good product or pitch, because I've budgeted all I can through Dec. (got kids Xmas to pay for). I did also buy a new army for me and one for the little guy (13 yr old). I don't think it slowed my purchases down at my FLGS, but I know it did others. About the only thing I worry about is any KS that won't give Retailers a chance to play. The only good thing...I'll be getting a boat load of minis through-out next year....and it won't touch my FLGS budget at all. And I gotta buy a lot of paint for it all.

As suggested I've added data from indiegogo

Edit I've added date from indiegogo

Weird West Miniatures 01/05/12 3570
Greebo: Nippo Goblin and Turtles 01/09/12 10250
Infamy Miniatures IndieGoGo Project 01/07/12 3985
Pirate Goblins Box Set 01/09/12 5643
28mm Plastic Multi-part Zombie Miniatures by Studio Miniatur 01/09/12 12626
Wolsung Steampunk Skirmish Game 01/10/12 15130
Avatars of War Dwarf Army 01/06/12 39975
Morgraur-Rashaar Carnivale 01/10/12 9857
Otherworld Miniatures - Dungeon Adventurers 01/10/12 55731
Dark Potential's First Miniatures 01/05/12 89849
Drakskull's Menace 01/08/12 16458
Freebooter's Fate Legends Miniature set 01/11/12 83709

(dates are to the month not day, my spreadsheet seemed to want to alter them today)

Total = 346783

so final total this year so far KS + Indiegogo = $8675699

Wasn't CMON supposed to kick off a third miniatures game somewhere around this time?

 BrookM wrote:
Wasn't CMON supposed to kick off a third miniatures game somewhere around this time?

I think Wrath of Kings was expected to get something.
The Confrontation re-launch seems to have vanished in to the depths, with no news in months, there was some anticipation that that would be Kickstarted.

There was definatly a rumour of a CMON effort due early 2013,

I can't remember what it was suposed to be for though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And now we know, thanks to Piston Honda over on news and rumours

CMoN has released a pdf of the Wrath of Kings (WoK) rule book,

http://www.coolminiornot.com/thelegion/Wok_Demo_Rules.pdf

They have planned to launch a KS campaign in February according to their face book page. The original plan was to release them as metal. KS campaign will allow them to be plastic.