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Apart from dropping wolf-guard plasma bombs on the praetorians and lychguard has anyone got any good tactics?

For Lychguard and Preatorians, plasma, missiles, and maybe finish off with close combat.

For wraiths, rapid firing bolters and weight of regular attacks work. Spamming missiles can help soften a unit up too, thanks to instant death.

Of course Jaws is brutual to any of them.

Plasma Bombs won't help much with the wraiths, their save is invulnerable.

I haven't faced many lychguard or praetorians, but I do face a lot of Wraiths (unsuccessfully mind you) so I have a few ideas (mostly untried).

With Wraiths there are two main kill mechanisms, flood them with saves and flood them with strength 8 plus.

For the former, I recommend bolters of all types en masse and blast weapons. For the latter I recommend melta weapons and Lascannons (but expect to be underwhelmed).

Now if you want to do both at once, a Demolisher cannon will insta-death 1 wraith for every 4 you get under the template, 2 if you are lucky. Since wraiths max out at 6, a couple of Demolisher hits in addition to a storm of bolter fire should quickly remove the unit from play.

Jaws, bolters and weight of attacks. Grey Hunters en masse are one of the worst things for Crons to deal with.

 Mannahnin wrote:
For Lychguard and Preatorians, plasma, missiles, and maybe finish off with close combat.

For wraiths, rapid firing bolters and weight of regular attacks work. Spamming missiles can help soften a unit up too, thanks to instant death.

Of course Jaws is brutual to any of them.

Thanks for the input but i'm pretty sure Jaws doesn't work on wraiths and praetorians as they are jump infantry. As for defeating wraiths with weight of attacks i'm sure the math hammer says that isn't possible with any sw unit due to the wraiths sv and the fact they lower your front ranks initiative. By the time they've had their strenth 6 attacks you're done for. This is my dilema.....

The one thing that people (Necron and Non-Necron players both) is that while Wraiths are amazing at soaking up high-strength and AP weaponry with their invulernable save, they are just as weak to mass bolter fire as a space marine while a squad of 6 costs as much as 15 naked space marines (assuming the standard 3 Whipcoil). Don't waste your low AP weapons on them, just drown them in fire until they die.

RegalPhantom wrote:
The one thing that people (Necron and Non-Necron players both) is that while Wraiths are amazing at soaking up high-strength and AP weaponry with their invulernable save, they are just as weak to mass bolter fire as a space marine while a squad of 6 costs as much as 15 naked space marines (assuming the standard 3 Whipcoil). Don't waste your low AP weapons on them, just drown them in fire until they die.

The problem is they are fast and good in close combat. So you really need to hit them with everything before they get to close combat. Bolters are only going to get a turn of shooting before they are dead. So aren't really the answer. Hit them with your longfangs to soften them up, every failed save removes a whole model.

Jump is no longer a classification in itself - it's in addition to whatever type the unit is. JotWW is a lot scarier now.

Abhorash15000 wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
For Lychguard and Preatorians, plasma, missiles, and maybe finish off with close combat.

For wraiths, rapid firing bolters and weight of regular attacks work. Spamming missiles can help soften a unit up too, thanks to instant death.

Of course Jaws is brutual to any of them.

Thanks for the input but i'm pretty sure Jaws doesn't work on wraiths and praetorians as they are jump infantry.

As the above poster noted, that changed when we went to 6th ed. In 5th edition, Jump Infantry was a unit type, and since Jaws lists all the unit types it affects, and Jump Infantry isn't on the list, they were immune to it. In 6th ed, Jump is no longer a unit type; it's a modifier to other unit types, and explicitly says that the unit (like Infantry or Monstrous Creature) RETAINS its old type and all the rules applicable to its unit type, and gains the rules which go along with Jump IN ADDITION. Which means that anything which affects Infantry (like Jaws) now also affects Jump Infantry, unless specifically excepted.

Abhorash15000 wrote:
[As for defeating wraiths with weight of attacks i'm sure the math hammer says that isn't possible with any sw unit due to the wraiths inv sv and the fact they lower your front ranks initiative. By the time they've had their strenth 6 attacks you're done for. This is my dilema.....

The invulnerable save is precisely WHY you want to use weight of attacks, instead of a small number of power weapon/fist attacks. Killing a unit of six wraiths with bolters or close combat attacks is exactly as difficult as killing 12 Space Marines. Same toughness, same 3+ save. Now, 12 SM are pretty durable, but they're certainly not unkillable. Only your models which are in base contact with the whip coils have their init reduced, and per the Necron FAQ, it only applies PRIOR to pile-in moves, so a fair number of your SW may still be swinging first.

I seriously doubt JOTWW would work against wraiths and praetorians. Yeah, they are still infantry, but I dont see it working since they are also jump infantry.

There are two ways of looking at the rules : the hardcore RAW, which could mean since they retain infantry status they cant be hit, and the sensible way, which is that since they have the jum[ infantry status they can't be hit. Looking at what JOTWW is actually supposed to do (create a crack in the earth underneath the feet of the units), I don't see it working on units that can actually fly away...

GW can't FAQ everything and think of every possible change to each codex after the rules change. Quite obviously, JOTWW is not MEANT to work on jump infantry, and so I would never let an opponent use it on my jump infantry should I have some in my army. It clearly goes against what the creators intended, even if it doesn't seem to go against the new wording.

Trying to get JOTWW to work against jump infantry in 6th is just plain wrong and dishonest, unless there's an faq to back it up.

JOTWW with pods deals with necrons very well since you have a huge are you can deploy from to get the right angle

Blood claws out-melee wraiths easily on the charge. Simply run walking SW with two blood claw squads and two grey hunters squads. Grey hunters in front accept the charge, blood claws finish.

TW cav annihilate pretorians. Throw a SS in the squad to absorb some of the AP2/3 hits and/or a wolf lord.

Edit, JotWW works on Jump Inf. Despite weather you think it should work or not, RAW its very clear. GK FAQ with dredknights also supports a RIA interpretation.

 Bond wrote:
I seriously doubt JOTWW would work against wraiths and praetorians. Yeah, they are still infantry, but I dont see it working since they are also jump infantry.

There are two ways of looking at the rules : the hardcore RAW, which could mean since they retain infantry status they cant be hit, and the sensible way, which is that since they have the jum[ infantry status they can't be hit. Looking at what JOTWW is actually supposed to do (create a crack in the earth underneath the feet of the units), I don't see it working on units that can actually fly away...

GW can't FAQ everything and think of every possible change to each codex after the rules change. Quite obviously, JOTWW is not MEANT to work on jump infantry, and so I would never let an opponent use it on my jump infantry should I have some in my army. It clearly goes against what the creators intended, even if it doesn't seem to go against the new wording.

Trying to get JOTWW to work against jump infantry in 6th is just plain wrong and dishonest, unless there's an faq to back it up.

Except there is no Jump Infantry anymore, there is Infantry(Jump). By your logic characters are unaffect by JoTWW as well since they're Infantry(Character).

Simple, select your shooting unit, select the enemy Necron unit, roll dice.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Simple, select your shooting unit, select the enemy Necron unit, roll dice.

Wow, thanks for that inspired advice.

As a necron player who has to fight SWs all the time JotWW is pretty much what scares me the most do to our universal crap initiative of 2, and especially considering TFG players can bring 4 rune priests with jaws, ouch.

Unless you opponent is running a pure airforce, most necron armies will have some units to footslog and jaws is just devastating.

Other than that 2+ armor saves are effective against necron players who didn't come prepared and of course ridiculous CC units like TWC are a pain to deal with.

Abhorash15000 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Simple, select your shooting unit, select the enemy Necron unit, roll dice.

Wow, thanks for that inspired advice.

My point is shoot it. 40k is a shooting game and yet there are so many threads lately about people asking what to do because they aren't beating a unit in assault. If you can't fight it then don't; shooting is more powerful anyway. I didn't say more because there isn't more to say, whether you appreciate that or not. Lychguard and Praetorians in particular are just as easy to kill as most other units in the game, and Wraiths only differ in that they take a bit more fire power than normal due to multi-wounds.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Simple, select your shooting unit, select the enemy Necron unit, roll dice.

Wow, thanks for that inspired advice.

My point is shoot it. 40k is a shooting game and yet there are so many threads lately about people asking what to do because they aren't beating a unit in assault. If you can't fight it then don't; shooting is more powerful anyway. I didn't say more because there isn't more to say, whether you appreciate that or not. Lychguard and Praetorians in particular are just as easy to kill as most other units in the game, and Wraiths only differ in that they take a bit more fire power than normal due to multi-wounds.

What are you talking about??? You say: "whether you appreciate that or not. Lychguard and Praetorians in particular are just as easy to kill as most other units in the game". I think you're forgetting they're T5 and can have 4++ invun and reanimation protocol. You say: "Wraiths only differ in that they take a bit more fire power than normal due to multi-wounds". You forget they have 3++ invun. Even if you are in rapid fire range they will charge you and annihilate you next turn after your shots bounce of their 3++. Even if you rapid fire 10 plasma guns at them you will kill only 1 leaving 5 to charge you and cause you serious damage with their 20 S6 attacks next turn. These units are quite different to 'most other units' in the game.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:
As a necron player who has to fight SWs all the time JotWW is pretty much what scares me the most do to our universal crap initiative of 2, and especially considering TFG players can bring 4 rune priests with jaws, ouch.

Unless you opponent is running a pure airforce, most necron armies will have some units to footslog and jaws is just devastating.

Other than that 2+ armor saves are effective against necron players who didn't come prepared and of course ridiculous CC units like TWC are a pain to deal with.

Alot of players don't think JotWW works against jump infantry which is two of the units i have trouble with(lychguard and wraiths). Trouble with bringing 2+ armour units for me is that that means terminator wolf guard which are EXPENSIVE and in any case when they are equiped to deal with wraiths(pf or th with obligatory I1) my opponent brings his lychguard/pratorians with I2 strength 6/7 ap1/2 and i die and vice versa. As for TWC they can actually lose combat to pratorians after multiple rounds due to re-animation and they are by no means a quick fix for Wraiths either who have higher strength, more models in base contact and whip coils.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IamCaboose wrote:

 Bond wrote:
I seriously doubt JOTWW would work against wraiths and praetorians. Yeah, they are still infantry, but I dont see it working since they are also jump infantry.

There are two ways of looking at the rules : the hardcore RAW, which could mean since they retain infantry status they cant be hit, and the sensible way, which is that since they have the jum[ infantry status they can't be hit. Looking at what JOTWW is actually supposed to do (create a crack in the earth underneath the feet of the units), I don't see it working on units that can actually fly away...

GW can't FAQ everything and think of every possible change to each codex after the rules change. Quite obviously, JOTWW is not MEANT to work on jump infantry, and so I would never let an opponent use it on my jump infantry should I have some in my army. It clearly goes against what the creators intended, even if it doesn't seem to go against the new wording.

Trying to get JOTWW to work against jump infantry in 6th is just plain wrong and dishonest, unless there's an faq to back it up.

Except there is no Jump Infantry anymore, there is Infantry(Jump). By your logic characters are unaffect by JoTWW as well since they're Infantry(Character).

I think it does work in that case. It always did work against jetbikes which are airbourne too. You could argue the physics of it one way or the other- maybe the rupturing of the crust creates a pressure differential causing jump infantry to be sucked down just like the rest? Who knows with games workshop. E.g. FAQ says Lukas 'last laugh' will take a titan out of the game but necrons get to roll for re-animation even though they are now locked in a temporal prison.... they are idiots.

Abhorash15000 wrote:What are you talking about??? You say: "whether you appreciate that or not. Lychguard and Praetorians in particular are just as easy to kill as most other units in the game". I think you're forgetting they're T5 and can have 4++ invun and reanimation protocol. You say: "Wraiths only differ in that they take a bit more fire power than normal due to multi-wounds". You forget they have 3++ invun. Even if you are in rapid fire range they will charge you and annihilate you next turn after your shots bounce of their 3++. Even if you rapid fire 10 plasma guns at them you will kill only 1 leaving 5 to charge you and cause you serious damage with their 20 S6 attacks next turn. These units are quite different to 'most other units' in the game.

The problem with your argument is it is all bundled up by what I like to call 'shiny syndrome'. There is a lot of players that think having a good invul. makes a unit tough, or that low AP weaponry is the way forward. The simply fact of the matter is that in 40k rate of fire kills more things than low AP, and as such invuls are a lot less important. Who cares about a 4++ invul. when they have a 3+ armour; you take them down with small arms fire same as all MEQ in this game; I'm not the first person to say this to you in this thread either. They might have T5, but cost ~2.5 Marines, and nobody would say that 2.5 Marines are sturdy. They have higher toughness but less bodies which makes it balance out pretty much. Same with Wraiths; your unit might always have their 3+ save, but at max. strength are still only as hard to kill as 12 Marines, and that's not hard to do in this game. I can't remember the last time a unit of Wraith actually made it across the board against one of my armies. As for reanimation protocols, that only restores 1/3 of the wounds, and if you wipe the unit it never takes place.

You are way too focused on their shiny bits and not breaking them down to what they are at their core. Space Wolves are one of the shootiest armies out there and have plenty at their disposal to deal with these units. A standard list even should be able to do it. Use your small arms fire to kill them and prioritise your low AP carefully. Shoot your Grey Hunter etc at the Wraiths, and set your 18 Long Fangs on the Lychguard. Those Long Fangs can kill 4.5 in one phase, so they can easily half the unit. They also have the range to stay out of assault for at least a second round making them irrelevant.

Another thing to remember BTW is your should never have to deal with both of these units at the same time. The Wraiths will be upon you turn 2, turn 3 at the latest. The Lychguard on the other hand will be much slower. If they are on foot, it should be turn 4 before they can hit you, leaving you turn 1 and maybe 2 to deal with the Wraiths. If they deploy in a Scythe then you have two things to work with. Firstly, they can't assault until turn 3 at the earliest and even for that are relying on showing up in turn 2. Also you can make use of Invasion Beams. If they come in in the Scythe, make sure you blow it up and they are then forced back into reserve to walk on from his board edge effectively making them useless.

So stop focusing on the big toys and the intimidation and stick to the basics; they are what win this game. I would wager based on all of your posts here that half the reason you are losing is because you don't believe you can win and are focusing too heavily on that and thus making mistakes. There's a lot of great advice in this thread but I haven't seen you take any of it yet; I would advice you do.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:What are you talking about??? You say: "whether you appreciate that or not. Lychguard and Praetorians in particular are just as easy to kill as most other units in the game". I think you're forgetting they're T5 and can have 4++ invun and reanimation protocol. You say: "Wraiths only differ in that they take a bit more fire power than normal due to multi-wounds". You forget they have 3++ invun. Even if you are in rapid fire range they will charge you and annihilate you next turn after your shots bounce of their 3++. Even if you rapid fire 10 plasma guns at them you will kill only 1 leaving 5 to charge you and cause you serious damage with their 20 S6 attacks next turn. These units are quite different to 'most other units' in the game.

The problem with your argument is it is all bundled up by what I like to call 'shiny syndrome'. There is a lot of players that think having a good invul. makes a unit tough, or that low AP weaponry is the way forward. The simply fact of the matter is that in 40k rate of fire kills more things than low AP, and as such invuls are a lot less important. Who cares about a 4++ invul. when they have a 3+ armour; you take them down with small arms fire same as all MEQ in this game; I'm not the first person to say this to you in this thread either. They might have T5, but cost ~2.5 Marines, and nobody would say that 2.5 Marines are sturdy. They have higher toughness but less bodies which makes it balance out pretty much. Same with Wraiths; your unit might always have their 3+ save, but at max. strength are still only as hard to kill as 12 Marines, and that's not hard to do in this game. I can't remember the last time a unit of Wraith actually made it across the board against one of my armies. As for reanimation protocols, that only restores 1/3 of the wounds, and if you wipe the unit it never takes place.

You are way too focused on their shiny bits and not breaking them down to what they are at their core. Space Wolves are one of the shootiest armies out there and have plenty at their disposal to deal with these units. A standard list even should be able to do it. Use your small arms fire to kill them and prioritise your low AP carefully. Shoot your Grey Hunter etc at the Wraiths, and set your 18 Long Fangs on the Lychguard. Those Long Fangs can kill 4.5 in one phase, so they can easily half the unit. They also have the range to stay out of assault for at least a second round making them irrelevant.

Another thing to remember BTW is your should never have to deal with both of these units at the same time. The Wraiths will be upon you turn 2, turn 3 at the latest. The Lychguard on the other hand will be much slower. If they are on foot, it should be turn 4 before they can hit you, leaving you turn 1 and maybe 2 to deal with the Wraiths. If they deploy in a Scythe then you have two things to work with. Firstly, they can't assault until turn 3 at the earliest and even for that are relying on showing up in turn 2. Also you can make use of Invasion Beams. If they come in in the Scythe, make sure you blow it up and they are then forced back into reserve to walk on from his board edge effectively making them useless.

So stop focusing on the big toys and the intimidation and stick to the basics; they are what win this game. I would wager based on all of your posts here that half the reason you are losing is because you don't believe you can win and are focusing too heavily on that and thus making mistakes. There's a lot of great advice in this thread but I haven't seen you take any of it yet; I would advice you do.

The problem with your arguement is that you are so eager to condescend you have not done your maths properly nor have you apparently properly understood what I was saying.

1.when i brought up the fact they have invun saves it was to point out that low AP weapons WON'T work against wraiths and are not an option so I was agreeing with you and clearly wasnt suggesting 'low ap is the way forward' with regard to wraiths(another point you suggest I was making but infact wasn't).
2.'the simple fact of the matter is that in 40k rate of fire kills more things than low AP'. What a sweeping statement. So you are suggesting I should ignore the occasions when using low ap is better than shear rate of fire?
3.you bring up they cost 2.5 marines: 'They have higher toughness but less bodies which makes it balance out pretty much' I assume by bringing this up you are saying i should outnumber them 2.5 to 1? Ok, I rapid fire 25 bolters into 10 praetorians(your weight of fire with no regard for ap tactic). Do the math you will find 8 remain after re-animation rolls. Now its their go and they charge me. they cause 12.5 unsaved wounds. Whats your point?
4.'Same with wraiths...I can't remember the last time a unit of Wraith actually made it across the board against one of my armies'. Wow, you must have been playing the most incompetant necron players- do they realise these units are jump infantry and belong in combat??
5.'As for reanimation protocols, that only restores 1/3 of the wounds, and if you wipe the unit it never takes place.' Forgive me if i'm wrong but 1/3 of the wounds is substantial and can be improved to 1/2 by a res-orb. And how do you propose to 'wipe the unit' with your terrible tactic of shooting S4 ap5 weapons against T5 3+ 4+reanimated adversaries?-IT DOESN'T WORK! They will stand, then charge, then slaughter you.
6.'Shoot your Grey Hunter etc at the Wraiths'. Even if I rapid-fire 2 whole squads at a unit of 6 wraiths I cause 3 wounds killing 1 wraith leaving 5 to charge me with 20 S6 attacks with whip coils. Your point is what?
7.'and set your 18 Long Fangs on the Lychguard. Those Long Fangs can kill 4.5 in one phase, so they can easily half the unit'. Firstly you make the assumption I will be bringing 18 Long Fangs. Lets say I do. They do not kill 4.5 in one phase they would kill 2-2.7 after rolling for reanimation meaning there will be 7-8 left to charge whoever they like on their go.
8.Everything in your third paragraph is entirely based on circumstances you created and is therefore hard to make relevant.
9.'I would wager based on all of your posts here that half the reason you are losing is because you don't believe you can win and are focusing too heavily on that and thus making mistakes.' Another assumption- I have never lost to necrons, last time I played them I absolutely annihilated my friends army with my wolves, but i had trouble dealing with these three units whilst tearing apart the rest of his force with my 'good invun' and low ap weaponry that you say is such a bad idea. True story. Example: I land a drop pod with with 10 wolf guard next to a unit of 10 praetorians on turn 1 and rapid fire 10 combi plasma into them. Thats 11 wounds which negates reanimation protocol and destroys the entire unit in one go. This is significantly better than your method whereby even if I had 20 marines rapid firing bolters there would be 8 out of the 10 praetorians left to tear me to peices next turn(I believe they would cause me 7 unsaved wounds).

Your tactics are flawed for these 3. reasons:

1.You haven't calculated your maths correctly.
2.You haven't taken reanimation seriously into account.
But mainly:
3.You fail to accept that these units want to charge you and if you are in range to empty the large amounts of small arms fire you suggesting then they will not only survive it but will then charge and absolutely ruin you if being used by a player who knows what they're doing.

P.s. Nice try at condescension at the end of your message there but it only works if you know what you're talking about.

How about heavy bolters? 3 S5 attacks could work, non?

 Niiai wrote:
How about heavy bolters? 3 S5 attacks could work, non?

how many of them are you packing. I doubt you could get enough

Well for 155 points you would get 5 and one twin linked one. That's not so bad. 3 squads of long fang rockets is a bit booring, the heavy bolters will add some suple diferenses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well for 155 points you would get 5 and one twin linked one. That's not so bad. 3 squads of long fang rockets is a bit booring, the heavy bolters will add some suple diferenses.

Abhorash15000 wrote:
3.you bring up they cost 2.5 marines: 'They have higher toughness but less bodies which makes it balance out pretty much' I assume by bringing this up you are saying i should outnumber them 2.5 to 1? Ok, I rapid fire 25 bolters into 10 praetorians(your weight of fire with no regard for ap tactic). Do the math you will find 8 remain after re-animation rolls. Now its their go and they charge me. they cause 12.5 unsaved wounds. Whats your point?

now your math is wrong. All this is happening in a vacum which is pretty bad to start but think of it this way
25 mainres is 3 squads, 2 of 10 and 1 of 5.
the marines get to shoot 25 times max range
50 times at 12"
now there are 7 of the 10 pratorians left alive at best
then the pratorians move up and shoot, they probably have to go after one of the large squads. Then they charge, taking overwatch shots (14 or so) and then assuming counter attack 21 attacks. This puts another pratorian down.
Finally the pratorians get to attack, nearly killing the large squad of GH. They actually dont want to finish the GH off, if they do they are going to get shot up again. Probably best would be for the GH to fire their bolt pistols and then charge at this point. Shooting will down another pratorian and then charging in which is going to half the squad. Once the pratorians are locked in combat, they only have 1 attack, killing 1 GH a turn while taking 2 casualties in return before get back up.
Eventually the GH prevail out of wieght of attacks and bodies. The GH also are scoring.
Wraiths do better with their whip coils and higher number of attacks, but with the ++ save there is even more reason to after then with wieght of attacks.

Neither one of you is being completely fair but I have to agree that a lot of people go for the shiny toy army full of small elite squads with low AP weaponry. The scariest marine armies I know are the ones with tons of Marines.

 Exergy wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:
3.you bring up they cost 2.5 marines: 'They have higher toughness but less bodies which makes it balance out pretty much' I assume by bringing this up you are saying i should outnumber them 2.5 to 1? Ok, I rapid fire 25 bolters into 10 praetorians(your weight of fire with no regard for ap tactic). Do the math you will find 8 remain after re-animation rolls. Now its their go and they charge me. they cause 12.5 unsaved wounds. Whats your point?

now your math is wrong. All this is happening in a vacum which is pretty bad to start but think of it this way
25 mainres is 3 squads, 2 of 10 and 1 of 5.
the marines get to shoot 25 times max range
50 times at 12"
now there are 7 of the 10 pratorians left alive at best
then the pratorians move up and shoot, they probably have to go after one of the large squads. Then they charge, taking overwatch shots (14 or so) and then assuming counter attack 21 attacks. This puts another pratorian down.
Finally the pratorians get to attack, nearly killing the large squad of GH. They actually dont want to finish the GH off, if they do they are going to get shot up again. Probably best would be for the GH to fire their bolt pistols and then charge at this point. Shooting will down another pratorian and then charging in which is going to half the squad. Once the pratorians are locked in combat, they only have 1 attack, killing 1 GH a turn while taking 2 casualties in return before get back up.
Eventually the GH prevail out of wieght of attacks and bodies. The GH also are scoring.
Wraiths do better with their whip coils and higher number of attacks, but with the ++ save there is even more reason to after then with wieght of attacks.

Neither one of you is being completely fair but I have to agree that a lot of people go for the shiny toy army full of small elite squads with low AP weaponry. The scariest marine armies I know are the ones with tons of Marines.

I agree with you that this is all hypothetical and not perfect etc. The odds do say however that with a standard reanimation there will be 8 praetorians left rounded up, definitely 8 with a res orb- my maths is correct there though I must admit that I may have miscalculated elsewhere as I dont have a necron codex handy. If i have then my apologies but I do recall they can be armed with pistols giving them 3 attacks each on the charge and their attacks are S5/6 AP2/Rending. They eat the GH despite their overwatch and 21 attacks. Consider Lychguard and wraiths in a similar scenario and I believe they prove even more of a problem. I believe my arguements still stand because your way of dealing with praetorians/lychguard involves sacrificing multiple units of gh to take out a single unit whereas my way wipes out the entire unit without taking a single casualty (all for less points too) because I am hitting their toughness 5 with S7 shots and negating their armour with ap2. I then reload and pick another target while more than half of your guys are dead.

I understand why you guys are saying the Wraiths invun save should dictate that weight of attacks are the only strategy. Of course I agree it is relevant but I let the fact they have 2 wounds at T4 dictate my strategy as well and find a unit of S8 pf/th termies/ lone wolves crush them with instakill far more effectively IF you can get the right unit into combat with the pesky critters which is generally the main problem.

Abhorash15000 wrote:

that I may have miscalculated elsewhere as I dont have a necron codex handy. If i have then my apologies but I do recall they can be armed with pistols giving them 3 attacks each on the charge and their attacks are S5/6 AP2/Rending. .

That is your problem, they either have a Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 in combat with 1 attack OR they have the pistol, which is not AP2, and their weapons are downgraded to voidblades which have entropic strike, which are not power weapons. I dont think entropic strike rends but they are most definitly not AP2. So their choice is to have the armor punch but only 1 attack or get entropic strike and 2 attacks, but be AP-.

 Exergy wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:

that I may have miscalculated elsewhere as I dont have a necron codex handy. If i have then my apologies but I do recall they can be armed with pistols giving them 3 attacks each on the charge and their attacks are S5/6 AP2/Rending. .

That is your problem, they either have a Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 in combat with 1 attack OR they have the pistol, which is not AP2, and their weapons are downgraded to voidblades which have entropic strike, which are not power weapons. I dont think entropic strike rends but they are most definitly not AP2. So their choice is to have the armor punch but only 1 attack or get entropic strike and 2 attacks, but be AP-.

Yeah thats fine, except Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 charge in combat is still going to win especially when they get the extra attack for charging as is the alternative of shooting the pistols and charging with 3 attacks each with superior strength. You have disproved/proved nothing. Your method still results in a total loss, my method still results in the destruction of the unit without my unit taking a single scratch. What is it you are trying to prove with this post? Dont waste my time

Abhorash15000 wrote:*long post*

So no I'm just being condescending because I'm telling you how it is? And how is telling you to take the wealth of good advice here instead of worrying too much condescending? Hell to this, if this is the attitude you give to people just because you'd rather whine about the problem than fix it with the solutions been presented to you, then why bother post here? Furthermore, you've rejected every single viable solution people have posted; so exactly why did you make this thread to begin with?

As for your arguments, they all involve the Necrons always being in range to charge and yet you say your tactics have nothing to do with you losing. Exactly how is this all happening from turn 1? Also why are you under the impression you can only fire Bolters when they are in Rapid Fire range? You have your head so far in the sand I'm not sure you are actually playing the game much, because every situation you have presented in this thread are the worst case scenarios for you; as pointed out above you are somehow assuming the Lychguard are getting all of their equipment which is not possible, so make up your mind. I can no longer decide whether you are that afraid of Necrons or just trolling. Regardless, you are being incredibly rude to the people you are apparently asking for advice (I'm condescending and Exergy is wasting your time with valid solutions )

In either case and as stated above, posting any further advice is a waste of time, as you've clearly made up your mind that you can't beat Necrons and that being told otherwise is condescending and a stain on your character. Good luck finding any help if this is how you behave.

Abhorash15000 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:

that I may have miscalculated elsewhere as I dont have a necron codex handy. If i have then my apologies but I do recall they can be armed with pistols giving them 3 attacks each on the charge and their attacks are S5/6 AP2/Rending. .

That is your problem, they either have a Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 in combat with 1 attack OR they have the pistol, which is not AP2, and their weapons are downgraded to voidblades which have entropic strike, which are not power weapons. I dont think entropic strike rends but they are most definitly not AP2. So their choice is to have the armor punch but only 1 attack or get entropic strike and 2 attacks, but be AP-.

Yeah thats fine, except Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 charge in combat is still going to win especially when they get the extra attack for charging as is the alternative of shooting the pistols and charging with 3 attacks each with superior strength. You have disproved/proved nothing. Your method still results in a total loss, my method still results in the destruction of the unit without my unit taking a single scratch. What is it you are trying to prove with this post? Dont waste my time

they will take a scratch because crons strike last. Also as I pointed out 10 pratorians cost a ton, thus there will be multiple squads of marines. The crons will get depleted getting into range, and then when the shoot will not kill an entire squad. Then they have to charge the same squad and will end up getting overwatched AND struck in CC before they get to strike again.
Then there are two possibilities, either they wipe that one squad or they dont.
If they wipe them, they get shot and then assaulted.
If they dont wipe them then they get assaulted.
In either case they then take a bunch of wounds before they get to strike, and when they do strike they now only have 1 attack each.

If 7 initially get into assault the first round, only 5 will get to strike, even if they might get back up at end of phase.
In subsiquent rounds, 1 cron will almost always be on the ground unable to attack.
in these later rounds, only have 2-3 crons attacking with 1 attack each means that they will be kill 1 marine a turn. Eventually the marines win.

Abhorash15000 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:

that I may have miscalculated elsewhere as I dont have a necron codex handy. If i have then my apologies but I do recall they can be armed with pistols giving them 3 attacks each on the charge and their attacks are S5/6 AP2/Rending. .

That is your problem, they either have a Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 in combat with 1 attack OR they have the pistol, which is not AP2, and their weapons are downgraded to voidblades which have entropic strike, which are not power weapons. I dont think entropic strike rends but they are most definitly not AP2. So their choice is to have the armor punch but only 1 attack or get entropic strike and 2 attacks, but be AP-.

Yeah thats fine, except Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 charge in combat is still going to win especially when they get the extra attack for charging as is the alternative of shooting the pistols and charging with 3 attacks each with superior strength. You have disproved/proved nothing. Your method still results in a total loss, my method still results in the destruction of the unit without my unit taking a single scratch. What is it you are trying to prove with this post? Dont waste my time

If they have pistols, they have a Voidblade (ES, Rending) and a Particle Caster (S6 AP5). They don't have any AP2 unless they rend. They also cost 40 points a model. "Don't waste my time." indeed. They're T5 single wound models with a 3+ save. You act like they're amazing rather than just decent. With the Rod of covenant btw they have a single AP2 shot each and a power mail in combat - so you get armor saves.

Keep up with the incorrect rage though.

rigeld2 wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Abhorash15000 wrote:

that I may have miscalculated elsewhere as I dont have a necron codex handy. If i have then my apologies but I do recall they can be armed with pistols giving them 3 attacks each on the charge and their attacks are S5/6 AP2/Rending. .

That is your problem, they either have a Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 in combat with 1 attack OR they have the pistol, which is not AP2, and their weapons are downgraded to voidblades which have entropic strike, which are not power weapons. I dont think entropic strike rends but they are most definitly not AP2. So their choice is to have the armor punch but only 1 attack or get entropic strike and 2 attacks, but be AP-.

Yeah thats fine, except Str5 ap2 6" weapon and str6 AP2 charge in combat is still going to win especially when they get the extra attack for charging as is the alternative of shooting the pistols and charging with 3 attacks each with superior strength. You have disproved/proved nothing. Your method still results in a total loss, my method still results in the destruction of the unit without my unit taking a single scratch. What is it you are trying to prove with this post? Dont waste my time

If they have pistols, they have a Voidblade (ES, Rending) and a Particle Caster (S6 AP5). They don't have any AP2 unless they rend. They also cost 40 points a model. "Don't waste my time." indeed. They're T5 single wound models with a 3+ save. You act like they're amazing rather than just decent. With the Rod of covenant btw they have a single AP2 shot each and a power mail in combat - so you get armor saves.

Keep up with the incorrect rage though.