Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Basically what the title says, I got plenty of ba, but now with 6th edition my old tactics are kind of redundant, I dont want comments on how they got nerfed, I need useful new tactics!

How did you want to play them? How did you play them?

Well I used to field 2 storm ravens, 2 assault squads with 2 saguinary priest, a reclusiarch and 10 death company, a deathcompany dreadnought, a vindicator, a tactical squad, assualt terminators and some other stuff, but I want to know what ba players are using in 6th edition. What works?

The single best thing that BA have in 6th edition are probably FNP bikes and attack bikes. These guys get two 5++ saves vs non STR 10 and non ignores cover. And the attack bikes can't be over killed without STR 10 either. That's some hot stuff there, imo. So blood rodeo is good. (Although pricey in $$ and very counter to fluff)

What else *works*? Well at least this is a relatively short list.

Stormravens work, provided that you don't put anything in them and your opponent doesn't have Vendettas. Yes, I know this is a downer, but trust me, its the way itis. Stormravens still have crazy low HP/AV for what they cost, though.

Melta works. BA get lots of melta. Lots of people are putting together lists with plasma in mind as the new meta, but sometimes melta is just straight up better. Don't like helldrakes and your stormraven didn't show up? Prescienced melta might do it.

Divination is super good. BA libbies get divination. Use it early and often.

BA codex powers aren't too bad. Shield of Sangiunius works on your *opponent's* turn and gives out a large area 5++ cover save. Combined with FNP from sanguinary priest, this makes your guys hard to kill with plasma. And you can use it with a drop pod libby, since he can cast it on your opponent's turn.

Combine above libby with Corbulo and 8 sternguard for mega pain. Add in drop pod fragnought and this can crush a flank. Note that it is critically important you do NOT suicide BA sternguard, as our model counts sucks rocks.

Fast vehicles work. They can move 6" and fire everything. Move 12" and fire two things. That's pretty good. Fast preds rock. Fast razors are okay but the guys inside got gimped. I have been just putting flamer dudes in them, as a ghetto substitute for assaulting. The only problem is that fast vehicle are more expensive, so when they die, you lose more points. Seeing a theme here?

I hate to say it, but tactical squads work just like our vanilla brethren minus combat tactics. Give sarge combi plasma, get a plasma gun guy and combat squad out the lascannon dude and put them in a las/plas razor. Decent firepower for a troop slot. Very un-BA fluff wise, but we need to take what we can get.

Sanguinary priests half work. FNP is still pretty nice, since it covers more hits, but only on 5++. But FC is basically garbage now. The effort it takes to get into assault in 6th edition needs a bigger payoff than +1 STR. Plus the priests are not cheap and hurt our model count. (Getting sick of that theme? Well so am I, trust me)

Furiosos kitted out to be fragnoughts are quite potent. They even threaten meqs and teqs throught torrent of wounds and rending. Automatically hitting is frelling awesome in 40K and this guy gets three template of auto-hitting goodness. The only thing better than auto-hitting is auto-hitting and ignoring cover. This guy does both.

Assault terminators work, but they need ride. And the ride is expensive. If something happens to their ride before they get close, they become sitting ducks for a turkey shoot.

People disagree with me here, but I say shooty terminators work when deployed via teleport homer or locator beacon. You put them down, don't scatter, and then light someone up with a heavy flamer and watch people scramble to get away from power fist death. People forget that the power fist is basically as good as the thunder hammer 95% of the time. They just don't have the fancy save. If you give them a terminator priest, they are almost as good against plasma as TH/SS, but still die like slime to ST 8 AP low.

The list was longer than I thought, but keep in mind that much of this stuff is expensive and other lists are more killy for less points. So "works" for BA is, in my opinion, not that competitive with what "works" in other codices.
Maybe I missed something?

I'm not going to dwell on nerfs, but I will outline trap units. Oh..... the trap units. How I hate thee. So much fluffy goodness, so much tabletop FAIL.

ASM: mediocre punch, doesn't participate in shooting phase to any meaningful degree

DC: base price is fair, but mobilization options suck. Hard. I have never lost to a BA list fielding DC in 6th edition. If they get hit with a spoiling attack, they lose most of their killiness.

Sanguinary Guard: Great until they run into plasma. Which is everywhere. Then they die like bitches and you wonder where your points went.

DC Dread: AV 13 >>>>>>> AV 12. Furioso owns this thing coming and going. Blood talons are super overrated; give me STR 10 instagib AP 2 death on init 4 any day of th e week over STR 6 AP 3 with some stupid extra attack mechanic. Plus its hard to get these things into hand to hand. Remember, loading things on the Stormraven is a no-no.

Non-libby HQs: All overcosted. Every. Single. One. Of. Them. It's tragic and boring, but the humble basic libby is our go-to guy.

Baal preds: Not unfieldable, but a trap unit nonetheless. Assault cannons are very mediocre imo and this is a slot that could be MM attack bikes. Flame tanks are suicide units now and BA can't afford suicide units.

Devastators: People list these as some big BA advantage, but I think they suck. They are immobile and have sub-optimal weapon choices. The lascannons are too pricey and the MLs lack efficacy. Plasma cannon might be the best, but this is a real feast or famine choice. But when they work, hooboy! Let me reiterate don't listen to anyone who tries to get you to use ML devs. The ML is a terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE weapon in 6th edition unless it is they typhoon launcher that gets ROF 2 on kraks. Then you can think of it as a juiced up autocannon. Base ML is a tragedy.

Vanguards: High point cost, 1 W T 4 3+ save. Expensive jump packs. All this adds up to unfieldable garbage. If you want to "disrupt" enemy stuff, drop a furioso on them and frag them to death.

Regular dreads: Fast preds own their faces. A miserable heavy support choice.

Speeders: AV 10 HP 2 is asking to be dusted yesterday in 6th edition. Compare to T 5 3+ 5++ jink FNP bikes. Leave speeders at home and laugh as the dark eldar try to kill your bikes with dark lances.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, if you're going to run dual stormravens, you need a commlink on an aegis line. Otherwise, the reserve rolls will make you lose. Straight up lose. There's no point in pretending otherwise.

Martel732 wrote:
Smart stuff about BA in general.

Listen to Martel. There is no person on DakkaDakka who is more competent when it comes to the flaws in the BA dex. He may be a bit overzealous at times and condemn units that aren't awful and can be used depending on your local meta, but I can't fault that. There isn't really anything I can add to his list except one suggestion: Give us a description of your local meta. What armies do you regularly play against? What units do they run? Do you have access to any models you can use as allies? For example, if you can throw a Vendetta or Broadside Team in, that can somewhat change the way you play your army. What BA models do you have access to?

Just my two cents, take them with a grain of salt.

I try to stress things that are good in general. Again, if this were the IG, "not awful" might make the cut. The BA are strapped for bodies on the table. I'd say the plasma devastators are "not awful" but are they on my "A" team? No. But they can hit homers that make Grey Knights cry in their soup.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My bottom line issue is that unless someone wants to seriously dispute this rundown, what can we build out of the "works" stuff? Yeah, we can make lists, but I don't think they are good TAC lists and they certainly don't line up with fluff. At all.

Martel, thanks again for your insights and advice. Your posts (in answer to some of my own BA questions in the past) are very valuable. I have also been a bit dismayed by the death of BA fluff, but am trying to get over it.

Allies are definitely something I have been considering--I think I will throw down a post about best combos and see what people tell me.

Samuele, sorry I don't have anything to add, really. I am dealing with exactly the same thing you are--I am going to experiment next with throwing some Assault Terminators in a Land Raider and trying to drop them off close enough to do some damage. I am also going to try a 3 - 2 split of TH/SS to Lightning Claws to try to soak up some fire with my invulnerable saves while still delivering some additional attacks. Like Martel said, our model count sucks.

Of course, I am still painting stuff up (ironically) and have definitely run into the "first use curse" in my recent games...

Anyway, keep the faith, Blood Angels! We're all doomed to succumb to the Black rage eventually anyway...

Oh, one more thing: I find that a 5 man ASM with a flamer, hand flamer on the sarge riding a razorback with TL Heavy flamer is a great cheap space filler that helps increase model count. And they score. And they burn annoying things like harlequins. It's also the closest we can get to "assaulting" out of a razorback. At least the guys get some decent over watch.

just found this thread ^^ as another blood angel player i felt i could give some input from my games

I agree with Martels points quite abit accually i haven't tried out razorbacks in my army yet and according to the fourms i missed out on 5th edition mayham xD

ether way for my game (in which i face my friends armies of grey knights, orks, tau, necrons , eldar and nids) i have found that my best daka unit i can feild are auto cannon heavy bolter preds with armor 13 my friends have a hard time killing them (ork guy recently turned to lootas and well glacing is unreliable xD) and with 6 str 5 ap 4 and 2 str 7 ap 4 shots times 3 for 100 points per pred is just a bargin i find 36" min range too its amazing great cover fire for my assualt marines as they jump around the feild i just can't tell you how much they have inproved my chances of winning i've shot down flyers with them and killed full squads of necron warriors and many more awesome things

i will have to say that i'm experiencing the hq problem that martel has talked about and i have been avoiding libys due to eldar and nid 3 dice roll and all these things but i guess i'll have to give them another chance btw martel do you use rule book powers or codex? also how do you keep your priest out of CC as i find they are pretty weak in it...

I make powers a game time decision. Yes, you are hurting against Eldar and to a lesser extent Nids and SW, but against most other lists, the buffs are better because of no Deny the Witch rolls.

I prefer auto/las preds, since there are more targets I'm interested in busting with lascannons than hitting with dakka. However, dakka preds are legit and cheaper than Baal preds I think.

One important unit I forgot about: Whirlwind. This thing is actually great against many foes. Due to its price point, it makes it into all my TAC lists that are heavy mech.

I can attest to the effectivness of the dakka Preds. My assault squads are fast movers who need fire support. The preds can keep up with aslt sqds constantly picking away at the enemy, softening them up for the charge. Dev are more survivable, especialy with a div/libbi or a priest. How ever they can't keep up the pressure through the whole game. As the game goes on & there's less enemys to target the repositioning of a dev sqd can render them useless for a turn. My aslt sqds are spread out & end up in the wierdest corners. Where ever they go the pred can follow keeping up the fire.

i find unless the oppent is to close to the pred (meltas and powerfist range) then i can ussally just move the pred 6" fire all the weps at the 36" range and it works great and its cheaper then the deva team and in my opionion does more dmg at least vs infanty if you want to pop mech blood angels can have so many melta guns its amazing xD

Depends in the infantry. Against light troops in cover, you want the whirlwind. Against meqs, and teqs, plasma devs will cause more damage than a dakka pred. But then you have to look at durability, mobility, and price point.

I prefer to hit mech with lascannons and MM myself. Getting to meltagun range can be... problematic sometimes.

my lascannons seem to love missing for me though its the same chance as my melta guns which is funny xD and i have not faced a big mech list from my friends yet (i'm the mech player to them xD) ether way my MM landspeeders have worked well in the past probably just becuase my friends ignore them till its to late but i'll be trying out attack bikes with MM soon i think i will like them ether way if they have something in cover i ussally drop a dread with a flamer on them it also distracts my friends to let my preds and marines live till they catch up and CC and dakka them

but my biggest problem has been nobs with powerclaws and monsterous creatures just killing my sergents and marines in my next few games i hope to begin countering them... oh also you were talking about libbys before what loud out do you ussally take them with? and do you use rule book or codex powers?

also how do you ussally field your lascannons and MM? Laz pred and attack bikes?

A BA force with a librarian or two, maybe libby dread, stormravens or triple las predators makes a very good core list.

With their ability to get FNP places, and cheap assault marine troops with melta guns, they do very well.

They are a fast, reasonable resilient force.

My lascannons usually appear on auto/las preds and las/plas razor backs. Sometimes I put one on the Stormraven. I don't like cost to upgrade the autocannon to TL lascannon. At CSM or DA prices, I would do it. But not at our price. Note that lascannons also help address MCs before they get close. LCs are expensive for a reason: they are good.

MM attack bikes are great anti-tank and anti teq and are very frustrating for the enemy to remove with FNP in play. I also put a MM on the Stormraven.

Remember that nobs should be getting a 4+ LOS, not a 2+. You can exploit the shooting rules sometimes to kill them in the shooting phase.

MCs are a pain. The more ASM you have, the bigger the pain they are because you are less able to remove them via shooting. Auto/las preds are really good vs MCs. Dakka Baals are pretty mean against them, too.

To select powers, you must look very carefully at your list and the opponent's list. Sometimes, the thing to do is to take book powers and get shield of sanguinius to give more units a cover save. However, divination is better for buffing a single unit. The 4++ power and the counterattack/full BS overwatch power are both crazy good. Obviously, if your libby is in a drop pod, you want shield of sanguinius, not divination, since you can't cast the turn you arrive.

Personally, I don't think that libby dreads are nearly worth their cost. Lump them under trap units. It's way too expensive for AV 13 HP 3. You can't switch out the wargear, either.

Thanks everybody for all your help, the things you have pointed out are what I was dreading . I love ba for there assault and they kind of seem redundant now in that role, I will never use ba bikes or razorbacks (da for bikes and just don't like razorback spam). What about vindicators? I've got two and love the fact I can move 12'' and still fire and the now it doesn't matter where the centre is. Oh and I have a thing against librarians, in my local group, people run characters who like to fight, an a librarian normally just gets spit out as he has no inv, (and the term upg makes him to expensive for 2 wounds!). and I like to fight back, so I go for reclusiarch with dc with bolters on foot.

So basically what you guys think of a force around drop pods with dc, furioso dreads, and tactical squads, backed up by a devastator on a agesis defense line, with a few stormravens and vindicators for good measure? Maybe some th/ss termies? (I usually run 2000pt games)

I am ok about this though, as I'd just got 2 ten man assault squads plus sanguinary guard finally finished!

Thanks again.

Oh and I play most my games against 3 friends, who between them run Imperial guard, tau, space wolves chaos, deamons and orks, we play semi-competitively.

Vindicators are good, but I can't say they are great. Their range necessitates exposing their weak side armor pretty quickly. Furthermore, their template is not really effective vs T6 monstrous creatures, as it only inflicts a single wound. They worth taking, but sometimes they kind of crap out on you.

My BA list denies all challenges, every time. My main ASM squad always has a libby, sarge, and priest all armed with power axes. Therefore, no matter who they pick to not fight, there are always two axes swinging.

In my opinion, divination and/or shield of sanguinius are powers the BA need access to to even be semi-competitive. Your troops become especially valuable if you are running multiple stormravens. Note that for multiple stormravens, you must utilize the commlink on the aegis line.

If you're going to drop, I'd say that sternguard are almost must-take. Sure, you can drop in DC and fire boltguns, but that doesn't do much up front damage and then your DC are open to counterfire and spoiling attacks. Contrast this to dropping 8 sternguard, Corbs and a libby with shield of sanguninius. Not as killy, but more effective by far I think.

Thanks again for your help!

I know what your saying, but firstly I'd have t buy the models, and secondly, It just makes my list even less fluffy. If I post a list would you tell me my main weaknesses. Again thanks.

Unfortunately, Sam, playing Blood Angels to fluff is not going to lead to a ton of wins these days. Assault Marines don't bring the pain in CC, and DC are imperfect in either cost (15pt jump packs) or delivery (they have to stand around for a turn when they jump out of drop pods).

That said, if you aren't concerned with really optimizing, the list of units you proposed up top aren't bad. I'm not wild about TH/SS termies (termies at all, actually), but they can certainly control the area directly around them. Ravens and Vindicators both hit hard, though it is largely my dissatisfaction with the Raven that has led me to using a Vindi.

As far as your HQ, you probably just need to bite the bullet and disregard the fluff: deny challenges like it was going out of style. When I used DC I would run my libby with them, cast Prescience to really maximize the damage they could do, and then deny challenges with the Libby if there was any chance of his being killed. When this unit got the charge, they were nigh on undefeatable.

yeah I agree, I used to run 10 dc with bolters in a storm raven with a reclusiarch and a dc dread, the look on there eyes when I got 20 bolter shots, 40 reroll to hit and wound str5 int 5 attacks was awesome, I even named my reclusiarch and kind havea personal attachment to dc and reclusiarch.

So what about this unfluffy in my eyes, and very un combaty by still kind of list!
hq
reclusiarch 130

troops
10 scouts with camo cloaks and missile launcher 180

10 man tactical squad with multimelta and melta gun 175
drop pod 35

9 deathcompany with powerfist 205
drop pod 35

10 man tactical squad with multimelta and melta gun 175
drop pod 35

elites
furioso dreadnought with frag cannon and heavyflamer 135
drop pod 35

furioso dreadnought with frag cannon and heavy flamer 135
drop pod 35

heavy support
devastator squad with 4 plasma cannons 150

storm raven with multimelta and assault cannon + hurrican bolters 230
storm raven with multimelta and assault cannon + hurrican bolters 230

Fortification
aegis defense line with comms relay 70

basically scouts can combat squad and help claim my objectives, devastators sit on agesis defense line and basically blast away from 36 inches away, then dc and furioso come turn 1 and try to eliminate and cause chaos, then tacs come next turn along with stormravens to clear up? got 10 pts spare might get a combi melta on a tactical squad.

I personally think that BA are not all that terrible, and plan on adding them as allies to my Deathwing army. Can I ask, what are people's thoughts on an allied detachment of something like Libby (blood lance and smite), fragnought with heavy flamer, sniper scouts. It comes to 345 or so points. I need to figure out a way to dump the Libby in with my alpha strike, as that Is kind of why I am bringing allies, as my Deathwing are more assaulty than shooty, hence the fragnought.

Take on attack and shield of sanguinius. That way, your libby can cast every single round.

Which one is attack, and are you sure, coz he only has one warp charge point

Warp charge regenerates every *player* turn. So you cast blood lance on your turn. On your opponents' turn you get another warp charge to cast shield of sanguinius.

Martel what do you think of my list, I guess your going to say noncompetitive

Oh wow, nice , which one do you think is better, blood lance or smite?

Probably blood lance because STR 8 lance is pretty hot.

"Martel what do you think of my list, I guess your going to say noncompetitive"

Actually, its not bad at all. Give you tac sergeants combi-weapons.

You might want a 2nd powerfist in the DC.

The thing about BA is that the boost from semi-competitive to competitive is not super huge for a TAC list.

Ok, thanks Martel. You are actually so helpful

Is it just me or does the Shield of Sanguinius function as a 6" bubble of 5+ cover for all, or should I say "any", unit within that distance?