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If you get lucky, smite can kill some teqs, but I don't like to rely on that much luck. You can put the hurt on a valuable vehicle with blood lance, and that's decent.

Yes, shield of sanguinius can give multiple units a 5++ cover save. But cover saves can be negated, by say helldrakes.

I agree about fun being the purpose, and what really bothers me is that what USED to be fun about the Blood Angels, what made them unique (the Fluff), now no longer really works if you want to win. And winning is fun. So, I am personally working on becoming a better loser, and just hoping that the odd "great dice rolling" game will bring me some "Objectives" too.

Wow. I think I learned more about BA from Martel than I could ever have done on my own.

Bikes. With FNP. ac/las preds, one of my favorite load outs.

Las/plas razorbacks. Keeping troops cheap. Libby's as the premier hq choice.

He follows wise guidelines that could be applied to many marine armies.

I agree that ac/las preds are the heavy choice to take over dev squads. The only 'dev' squads that are worth their salt are long fangs, imho.

Best thing i've read on dakka in a long time.

I like Havocs more than Long Fangs myself because they can take autocannons. The weird pricing structure of marine heavy weapons for devs makes lascannons really iffy, which is really what I want.

The Long Fangs themselves rock, but then you have to decide what to give them. If I had a space wolf army, maybe I'd try plasma cannon/heavy bolter and split fire. I don't know. What I do know is spamming MLs is a good way to nerf your own army. MLs are the hard way to kill pretty much anything except Tyranid MCs.

Since SW's don't have any real anti-flier defense, i take an aegis def line, gtg, and snap shot fliers.

You are quite right about havoc ac's. 8 str 7 ap 4 shots for 115 points is pretty amazing.

I could take IG allies with vendettas, but meh.

Serious Kudoes (And exalted posts) to Martel!

The notes about BA bikes were very informative. I do not use BA bikers and do not plan to but it was good stuff to know. I also agree on his assessment of the DC dred v.s. the av 13 furioso. I can't understand where going crazy with blood rage would lower a dred's av by 1 point. I will likely be swapping my blenders for frag cannon furiosos soon.

When 6th dropped I found that I had to really change up my list. I had run STRVN+DC dred and assault marines with a Sang Guard unit and Jump DC. In 5th it worked fantastically with both the fluff and in tourney play.

I look at the changes form 6th as a mandatory assignment to relearn the game in the context of what the rules nerf means for the codex. I had a really long 5th ed BA win streak and now it's about 50/50 and I'm very happy with that because I'm forced to really earn a win. I've retooled my list away from relying on blender ragenughts and FNP saves and more toward putting down an obscene amount of anti infantry fire each round. Still fine tuning it so that it's sorta fluffy but also sorta competitive. Usually play at 2,000 points.

HQ: Librarian (Epistolary)
Troop: 5 DC on foot. infernis and power sword
Troop: DC blendernaught +(Elite slot) Lucious pattern drop pod. (Assaults on landing so used to hunt troops and weapon emplacements)
Elite: 5X Sang guard +infernis pistols (tank/HQ assassination unit)
Elite: Brother Corbulo
Fast: 2X Baal preds (TL Assault cannon only)
HVY: Vindicator

Allied:
HQ: Librarian
Troop: 5 man tac squad
Fast: Stormtalon Gunship
HVY: Mortis pattern contemptor (with two K-Assault cannons and a rocket launcher)


I also run a list of Dante, multiple sang guard units , sang priests and two Stormravens. It's just for fun but generally does well even after the changes in 6th.

I'm not much into Forgeworld, but I thought the BA were the one chapter that couldn't use Lucious pattern pods.

What are your thoughts on using 5-man Tac squads? When I did so they just got shredded by long-distance fire. With only 5-man Troops choices, I think you'd be running the risk of not being alive to claim objectives at the end of the game.

I run a 5 man tac squad at 1000 pts with a mind to camp the home objective, give te sgr a combi flamer and they do alright putting damage on an enemy troop choice trying to take your objective. However if I had the models I'd probably run sniper scouts instead.

D

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not much into Forgeworld, but I thought the BA were the one chapter that couldn't use Lucious pattern pods.

This is right I'm afraid, Blood Angels don't get them unless it's apocalypse.

Sorry to jump in here, but I noticed you mentioned that ML devs aren't worth taking and I was just wondering why? I only play with a few friends so I miss out on a lot of the meta talk and rely on dakka dakka for most of my information. Thanks!

To add a little to the tac squad talk...my wife allies DA tac squad with 2x Plasma Cannon and a Div Libby as her camping squad when she plays a lot of her BA lists. It's a fairly cheap squad that can re-roll pie plates of doom, not sure if it would help you, just something to consider I suppose.

Here's another general tactic to counter Flyers or players with lots of vehicles, like DE.

Put a Devastator squad with an extra member (assuming you give the other 4 core members SOME sort of Heavy weapon, even if just the ML, which I have heard strongly disparaged in this Forum) behind an Aegis Defense line with a Quad gun. Stick the extra Devastator on the Quad Gun and let him use the Sergeant's Signum and Interceptor special rule to blast incoming Reserves out of the air (or teleporting units nearby).

Thoughts?

Correct: Lucious Drop pod is for any marines in APOC games. In other cases the BA don't get one. Why they made that rules addendum I will never understand. All marines can take normals drop pods but herrpadeeerp no Lucious for BA codex.

wow there alot more posts since i've last been here ^^

ok so i didn't know that you gen warp charges every player turn me and my friends always played it as chages per game turn ether way if it is player turn does that also mean things like divanation reroll to hits only works for your turn and not the other players turn aswell? also i assume you can't cast it during their turn... or can you?

idk ether way i just thought of a very interesting dread drop where is a furioso the drop pods in and pops smoke while your libby jumps up the feild with some assault marines then you cast divanation reroll to hit on the blood talon dread (that hopefully lived) and now you have rerolling to hit and wound(wound due to lightning claw rule) and assuming that they are not armor save 2+ you now get your attack back to do it over and over again..... so idk about you guys but thats alot of dead marines to me xD

Gonna pop in in defence of blood talon furioso's. Against non terminator's, they can and will chew through any troop unit in the game in a turn or two. Big issue with dread's, is getting bogged down in combat's that take too long, and this completely stops that from happening. Plus, it's cheap for that, and AV13 is great. 3 furioso dread's in drop pod's, is almost a must for BA now in my eyes, with the sheer volume of troops this edition seems to bring out.

Give the furioso prescience, and it's just a troop-lawnmower.

What's the knock-on from using the signum with the quad gun? Does it mean the the unit can't fire the following turn or just you can't use the signum? Either way it would deter a helldrake from toasting your devs. Very interesting.

I also want to stick up for ML devs as i love mine, i think they've made their points back for me atleast 9 times out if 10. So here's my thought. First of all these make for an excellent support unit, they can hang back and soften up a unit before my assault marines jump in to punch face. They're brilliant for thining down big units with poor armour, and hitting light to medium vehicles whilst the melta in your army takes on the av13+ and can double out meq characters. I like to keep my libby with them if i roll the ignoes cover power, then they can be pretty damn brutal.

I think they offer the best all-round supporting fire and as long as you've got other units with weapons to take on av13+ and mcs then you're laughing.

Also red power armour with a blue helmet looks wicked.

D

pantheralegionnaire wrote:
I agree about fun being the purpose, and what really bothers me is that what USED to be fun about the Blood Angels, what made them unique (the Fluff), now no longer really works if you want to win. And winning is fun. So, I am personally working on becoming a better loser, and just hoping that the odd "great dice rolling" game will bring me some "Objectives" too.

To be fair, massed assault troops isn't really BA fluff anyway - they're still largely codex-compliant, and so they're really supposed to be rocking ~80% Tactical Squads. From a gaming-perspective though, massed Assault Marines is just more interesting and unique.

Martel732 wrote:
I like Havocs more than Long Fangs myself because they can take autocannons. The weird pricing structure of marine heavy weapons for devs makes lascannons really iffy, which is really what I want.

The Long Fangs themselves rock, but then you have to decide what to give them. If I had a space wolf army, maybe I'd try plasma cannon/heavy bolter and split fire. I don't know. What I do know is spamming MLs is a good way to nerf your own army. MLs are the hard way to kill pretty much anything except Tyranid MCs.

As a Space Wolves player, I'm finding that Long Fangs are having a tougher time cutting it now. I used to be able to get away with 2 units of Missile Fangs throughout 5th, but the changes to vehicle damage have dampened their impact somewhat. Missile Launchers aren't nearly as useless as Martel's saying, but they're definitely noticeably less reliable than Lascannons... unfortunately, adding Lascannons adds another 75pts to their points cost per unit (on top of the price of the missiles), so it's not really worthwhile. I'm finding it's just better for us to spam lots of missiles and depend on volume of fire for ranged anti-tank. I also run a lot of Melta on my infantry, so stuff that I need dead will generally be taken care of by them.

 evildrcheese wrote:
What's the knock-on from using the signum with the quad gun? Does it mean the the unit can't fire the following turn or just you can't use the signum? Either way it would deter a helldrake from toasting your devs. Very interesting.

I also want to stick up for ML devs as i love mine, i think they've made their points back for me atleast 9 times out if 10. So here's my thought. First of all these make for an excellent support unit, they can hang back and soften up a unit before my assault marines jump in to punch face. They're brilliant for thining down big units with poor armour, and hitting light to medium vehicles whilst the melta in your army takes on the av13+ and can double out meq characters. I like to keep my libby with them if i roll the ignoes cover power, then they can be pretty damn brutal.

I think they offer the best all-round supporting fire and as long as you've got other units with weapons to take on av13+ and mcs then you're laughing.

Also red power armour with a blue helmet looks wicked.

D

I agree about the blue helmets, and am encouraged by your comments on ML devs. Your points cost analysis regarding Lascannons is also right on. What do you think about the virtues of Plasma Cannons as an in-between? Also, do Heavy Bolters have ANY role anymore in a Take-All-Comers list? I mean, if you KNOW you are going to be playing a horde army, they make sense in terms of volume of fire, but otherwise, what do you think?

As for the Aegis line + Quad gun, it would mean (i think--this is how we have played it) that the Quad gun can't shoot the next turn, but the unit can. The signum is going to be dodgy because of the "Snap Shot" thing... So, its main benefit so far has been to try to shoot down one of the three Vendettas that one of my local opponents tends to bring on in Turn 2 or 3.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, totally different question: Dreadnought Librarians.

Does anybody use them? They can't join units, but can they serve in a comparable Divination role as HQ librarians? Do they just get shot to bits?

MLs have the unfortunate problem of getting hosed by 6th edition.

6th edition made AP3 very difficult to get explosions on the vehicle chart, and against AV 12 or lower, autocannons rate of fire makes them superior hull strippers. So where is the krak missile's sweet spot? It really doesn't have one.

I think ML are basically useless because any slot of your army that can bring ML can bring a more efficacious weapon. In my opinion. This includes autocannons and lascannons, both of which can be brought on a predator. Also think about ML from the view of a TAC list: they can't pop teqs, and can't stop Land Raiders from barreling down on you. It takes quite a few krak shots to even disable AV 12 with no cover. This, by the way, is way I usually stay away from devs: I'm just not comfortable with their weapon loadouts. Also, don't forget that BA preds can move 6" and fire everything. So they can get shots that the immobile devastators can't take. It's a much harder situation for the Space Wolves, I think, but even there I bet that if a Space Wolf list dumped out all the MLs and rearranged their weapon loadouts, they would see an improvement. It just sucks so much we can't get autocannons.

As for the comment about powers: blessings from the core book last until the end of the *following* turn. So they get cast on your turn. Then on you opponents turn, you can charge up your force weapon to ID. Then on your turn, its time to recast.

A BA libby using shield of sanguinius and blood lance just casts spells every turn (in theory).

My position on all HTH focused dreads it that good players will not let you get your blender dread into a juicy unit. Even with a drop pod, they have an entire turn to engineer the situation to their favor. The dreads in drop pods add up quickly points wise for a real if-come-maybe return.

Hey all, I just joined up after seeing this thread, and I was hoping to get some input on BA a list I've been contemplating. I only have 1000 worth right now (units I already own in red), but I was thinking of expanding to 1850 with the following list:

HQ - Mephiston

HQ - Astorath (joining one of the DC squads)

Troops:

10 man Tac

10 man ASM (P.S.)

10 man ASM (P.S.) reserved

5 DC ( Jump Packs, P.F., T.H.) reserved

5 man DC (P.F) in a TL LC Razorback

5 man DC (P.F.) in a TL LC Razorback

Any thoughts would be appreciated. At this point I've only played 4 games (2W, 2L), and I would like to hold off on buying any new units until I am fairly sure of how I want my army to shape up.

I am another fairly new BA player, and I also joined this thread and got some really helpful responses from people, so I thought I'd chime in. First of all, things have really changed in 6th ed. in terms of what "works" and what doesn't, and I am trying to adapt--and also thinking of what to buy next like you are. In any case, this thread has a ton of good information, so if you read it it will help, and there was another thread recently about using Mephiston in a DA army--read that one too.

Basically, what I have experienced, and some other people on this thread would tell you (Martel, for instance), is that jump packs and DC are very likely to just get slaughtered before they can get to close combat range. The Razorbacks might help you, but I have seen a lot of people using Drop pods. It is just really hard to get to the enemy, as the game these days seems to be built much more around shooting, and Flyers. The BA have both, but they're comparatively expensive (in Earth-money terms as well as 40k terms) and make some of us feel "un-Blood-Angely." Bikes, for example, with attack bike with MM, seems to be getting rave reviews, but I don't own any bikes at present. (Might have to get me some)

Furthermore, in terms of HQ, it seems that the default (affordable but effective) HQ choice these days is a Librarian--either using Divination to help your shooting, or the Codex powers, to provide cover saves, use Blood Lance, or whatever. So, Mephiston is seen as very expensive and not as good as other top-end HQ characters, especially because he cannot join units. I was unaware of this until about a week ago myself...he'd been joining all kinds of units in my games! Anyway, people are not high on Mephiston.

Now, the Astorath combo might help you, in increasing the likelihood of getting FC but the FNP rule hasn't protected my DC very well recently, as people just target them with Dark Lances and stuff like that which ignores the save (and vaporizes them long before they cross the field). But it's a twist, in any case, and might work.

It is going to depend on who you are playing against, I am sure, and how they play, but those are some of the things I have learned in the last while about playing BA.

stevensonmat2 wrote:
Hey all, I just joined up after seeing this thread, and I was hoping to get some input on BA a list I've been contemplating. I only have 1000 worth right now (units I already own in red), but I was thinking of expanding to 1850 with the following list:

HQ - Mephiston

HQ - Astorath (joining one of the DC squads)

Troops:

10 man Tac

10 man ASM (P.S.)

10 man ASM (P.S.) reserved

5 DC ( Jump Packs, P.F., T.H.) reserved

5 man DC (P.F) in a TL LC Razorback

5 man DC (P.F.) in a TL LC Razorback

Any thoughts would be appreciated. At this point I've only played 4 games (2W, 2L), and I would like to hold off on buying any new units until I am fairly sure of how I want my army to shape up.

At 1850, this list has a few issues. Marines really can't afford two HQs, unless they are two very cheap ones. The Tac squad needs weapons and a ride. You can try to DoA 5 DC, but they will likely just get shot. Two razorbacks in an 1850 list as they only tanks are the deadest razorbacks ever. If you really want to use DC, try dumping Astorath and getting a 10 man squad on foot in a Land Raider. Then put your other guys in tanks too, and have Mephiston as the HQ. That's more a challenge to enemy anti-tank.

Blood Talon (dual) Dreds have repeatedly destroyed my 30 Ork mobs by themselves. Also the Fragnoughts have completely destroyed my Lootas. BA have the best Non-Ork Dreds in the game.

All through 5th Orks were jealous of BA. I even considered running an Ork counts-as BA list. Now BA is talking about FNP Biker lists? Delicious irony.

I see that as an Ork-specific phenomenon. Most other lists can easily capitalize on poor deployment schemes for BA dreads and kill them before they get into assault. Look at the other scenario: a blood talon dread in a pod against Necrons. It shows up, and gets Gaussed to death having accomplished nothing.

I think I've lost a grand total of 3 meqs to blender dreads so far in 6th. They show up, I kill them, and move on with life. If someone puts it in a Stormraven, it goes down. Hey look! 300+ points neutralized by removing 3 HP!

Note that blender dreads can not harm fragnoughts or really any other dreads in HTH. The blood fist as a follow up after template death on the fragnought is far more versatile in TAC list, imo.

The irony of the rise of FNP bikers for the BA is pretty amusing, though.

Martel732 wrote:


If you're going to drop, I'd say that sternguard are almost must-take. Sure, you can drop in DC and fire boltguns, but that doesn't do much up front damage and then your DC are open to counterfire and spoiling attacks. Contrast this to dropping 8 sternguard, Corbs and a libby with shield of sanguninius. Not as killy, but more effective by far I think.

I like this, but I've alternatively used a 10-man squad in a few games, combat-squadding thus being able to fire at different targets on landing, tricked out on plasma/combi plasma with maybe a tad of melta mixed in, I once managed to wipe out 2 MC's on landing I believe. Not too shabby. Not only that, but the array of special ammo afforded to them is a nice plus when you're looking not to shoot your load of plasma, and I've managed to use it when the call arrives to use plasma conservatively. Not exactly super-BA-ey, but they get the job done. But I'll give your idea a shot too. Changes things up, I had considered adding a Divination Libby but not Corbulo, that's actually a really cool idea that would make this feel more....BA-ey. But again, I do enjoy being able to combat-squad as with their base 2 attacks, if somebody tries to charge them they've got good overwatch (and if you add flamers to the mix in your particular flavour of the loadout, bonus) compared to ASM when they get charged, and they have to either multi-assault or get in 2 of their own units to take out one unit which is largely suicide-shock troops, and in fact, feel free to mathhammer the odds of this as it feels like I'm just plain lucky, if they do try they either lose a lot of models or they get tarpitted which is fabulous. That also might depend on the opponent's skill and problem-solving when it comes to fighting away this scalpel, as well as your own placement of the unit.

General advice would also be to never underestimate how much a small amount of points means to your list. Don't trick out your sergeants if you can remove some of their bling to get something that really matters and maybe even adds to the model count. I once tried to add storm shields to my sgts. Interesting, and coupled with their axes they lasted, but it's also dependent on luck and that's 20 pts hanging in the balance that could have been spent on something more important than a hardier 1-wound sergeant. That's not to say I won't try it again, interestingly my sarges in the past have accomplished hilarious feats (including killing an EW, kitted out Wolf Lord). Devs are alright, in my opinion, but YMMV - if you use them, definitely give them an ADL to hide in, sarge wielding the Quad Gun and never underestimate the beauty of the Signum in a jam. What Martel says is right though - the fluffy, fun models are unfortunately not as good this edition. I've been sticking to my guns (although with some variation recently) about using units I just plain like, but when I want to win I'm hardly impressed with my normal choices. Luckily my opponents have been varying lately and I've had better games, but again luck may be a factor, that or maybe I'm better than I give myself credit for as a strategist

Point is, while there are some units that have come to shine this edition (Hello, Corbulo? Holy can he be fun to use), refer to what Martel has said about certain units as a set of guidelines and write a list at your own risk. In many cases, making a fun list is best done and used against a casual gaming buddy, because nothing stings worse than playing an oddly macho 40k player with BA who have lost much of their luster this edition and not only getting your arse handed to you, but getting it rubbed in your face.

All this being said, with the lists I normally use, I've been having roaring good times and really close calls against a greatly competent DE player, but again that hardly gives me confidence in my army as a TAC setup. I don't play in tournaments is all, at the moment, and so it doesn't get to me as much.

I've been following this thread with great interest. Lots of great advice here, especially from Martel.

Lets work together to build a cohesive TAC list for BA. What are auto includes ? what are the never brings ?

Librarian - (naked or JP)

Sternguard - Seems we cant win without this unit's alpha strike (1-2 units) droppod delivery

Furioso Fragnought - (1-2 ?) Droppod delivery

2-3 TAC squads (I prefer PG, PC, CombiPlas) In rhinos (fear the helldrake)

BIKES. BIKES BIKES ! MG Attack Bike

Stormravens (on the fence with this 200 point unit, I love it, not sure if its worth 200 point skipping out on turn 1+)

Sprinkling of Sang Priests, (1-2 Max)

Predators (AC / LC over baals)

what else is even worth bringing that I am forgetting ?

Afterthought - Tactical terminators ?!?

How many points do we want this list? or perhaps we could scale it and make a list for 1000,1250,1500,1750 and 2000?

Also i haven't tried the sternguard that much but when i have they have just died really fast... How do you guys keep them alive after drop?

also are we really dropping assault marines? for tacs?

I think 1000 points is useless... i am adamant that BA at that point levels are too gimped.

Lets do 1850 and 2000, since thats what most people play, and is a points level that our army can get enough efficient units in.

If your sternguard are dying, then they should be making their points back taking out a high priority target (ie av 14, artillary, MC, HQ). If there is not a target that you can destroy when dropping down, you should not drop the guys to their death. Think tactically about what other options are available, maybe you can block of a route of attack by having a bunch of melta toting vets in the way. This issue is really on that DP DC have in common, just because they are in a pod doesnt mean you have to serve them up on a silver platter. Sometimes having a 10 man strong unit in your opponents back line can cause more issues, in that it makes your opponent make bad decisions.

I want to love assault marines, i really do, especiialy for BA. But really what am i supposed to do with a BP and chainsword these days.... hop across the board like a frog... loose a few guys and then an aenemic assault into the enemy lines ? The only time i like assault marines is versus Xenos armies... xenos all die to flamers... which is great... but too situational for my use. Tacticals just have far more use, especially when mounted in a fast rhino.

To me, there are two primary methods to approach the TAC idea for BA: mech lists and mech-low lists that focus on jumpers.

What LionOfTheForest touched combined all things I talked about before, but I feel BA pricing makes us pick and choose.

So consider these concepts:

1) Mech list that brings predators and whirlwinds for heavy weapons. Most troops are 5 man assault teams in razor backs with flame weapons or 10 man tac squads combat squadded out with sarge/special weapon in las/plas razors and the heavy weapon behind an aegis line perhaps. One can also sometimes run Vindicators to be tricksy.

Supplement this with a single 10 man ASM squad for defensive HTH purposes. The single 10 man ASM gets the majority of the divination support and has a sarge, libby, and priest all with power axes and denies all challenges, keeping two axes in play at all times. If they get the 4++ power, they can be a pain for nearly any foe.

Also supplement with FNP plasma bikers and MM attack bikes. Stormraven optional depending on points/meta. This kind of list would have many lascannons and try to inflict maximum damage on opponent before assault occurs. This list is more defensive, and can play keep away from several list types. Fast works just as well in reverse as forward. Not heroic, but whatever.

2) More aggressive list style. Get 20-30 jumpers. Give them shield of sanguinius and priest support. Keep the MM attack bikes for anti-tank. To this, add in fragnoughts and sternguard in drop pods. The Sternguard can also have a libby with shield of sanguinius that can potentially cover a dread or two. Usually when I field this, I use 20 jumpers and add tac squad with plasma to another drop pod.

Furthermore, have locator beacons on the pods so non-turn 1 pods don't scatter and add some shooty terminators to beam in as well to amplify the unpleasantness of the drop. Again, Stormraven optional.

Looking at the two theoretical lists, the only auto includes are libbies, one or more 10 man ASM, sanguinary priests and MM attack bikes. Both lists have access to "ignores cover" in one form or another. However, there is no reason you couldn't put FNP plasma bikers in concept #2, I just didn't because the points don't usually work out that way for me.

I'm sure these are the not only concept lists that try to make the most of what advantages we have left. However, it doesn't take a master strategist to realize that theory list 2 is going to struggle against Space Wolves and theory list 1 will not do well against lists than have massively more throw weight on the shooting phase. We could perform a similar exercise with a dual Stormraven list, but I don't own two so I've have experience there.

I literally do not know how to address these issues, since when building out a list, BA run out of points very quickly. This is why I say that the BA are still pretty good for tailored situations, but in a TAC situation, I think it's very challenging. I kind of cringe when I see new people on the list forum trying to start up the BA. The BA are not a beginner list in 6th edition at all.

Martel732 wrote:


I literally do not know how to address these issues, since when building out a list, BA run out of points very quickly. This is why I say that the BA are still pretty good for tailored situations, but in a TAC situation, I think it's very challenging. I kind of cringe when I see new people on the list forum trying to start up the BA. The BA are not a beginner list in 6th edition at all.

You hit the nail on the head there. But being the pain in the ass that I am, and only wanting to use painted units, which the majority of my BA are; I am too stubborn to use Guard allies yet.

One question I have had circling in my mind is: Is one Stormraven worth it, or do you need 2? both times i have fielded one it dies pretty quick... theres not many places to hide something that large on a flyer base.

@Martel - how many Preds and Razors are we talking about ? ( I am limited in the number i can field)


when I get home later and put my kid to sleep I will try writting up a list that I will use as a TAC