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Ok, while travelling to work today I came up with this idea, and no it is not a joke. Everyone seems to agree that White Dwarf is not worth buying anymore so how about this; stop printing the magazine and instead do a magazine that is solely codex/WH army book but in the form of a magazine. That way all armies would be kept up to date and be relevant to the current rules. Personally I don't care whether there are miniatures to tie in with a release, they can release them whenever they are ready. A wild idea, but imagine being able to have your army updated relatively quickly and lets face it, we all have more than enough minis to outfit our armies without a real need for new stuff.
The other advantage would be the price; just think, a codex for the average price of a magazine off the news stands.
Simplistic, but sometimes simple is better.
Thoughts?

I still enjoy buying the magazine on my ipad.

Or they could continue selling the catalogue to the hundreds (thousands) of subscribers and impulse buyers for $9.00 each. I can't think of a single catalogue or magazine that goes for that much, yet people buy it. Make sure to threaten blogs with takedown orders if they post images of you catalogue on the internet.

Then, on the side, they could release an Army Book or Codex for $50 each every month or so. Thus they make even more money.

 Absolutionis wrote:
Or they could continue selling the catalogue to the hundreds (thousands) of subscribers and impulse buyers for $9.00 each. I can't think of a single catalogue or magazine that goes for that much, yet people buy it. Make sure to threaten blogs with takedown orders if they post images of you catalogue on the internet.

Then, on the side, they could release an Army Book or Codex for $50 each every month or so. Thus they make even more money.

To be fair, most niche hobby magazines run fairly high, and some entertainment magazines are actually more.

No quarter is $7.50. Ravage is $7.00

 cincydooley wrote:

 Absolutionis wrote:
Or they could continue selling the catalogue to the hundreds (thousands) of subscribers and impulse buyers for $9.00 each. I can't think of a single catalogue or magazine that goes for that much, yet people buy it. Make sure to threaten blogs with takedown orders if they post images of you catalogue on the internet.

Then, on the side, they could release an Army Book or Codex for $50 each every month or so. Thus they make even more money.

To be fair, most niche hobby magazines run fairly high, and some entertainment magazines are actually more.

No quarter is $7.50. Ravage is $7.00

So you couldn't either?

i don't see what the issue is with White Dwarf. I used to read it back in the early 90s, and it's hardly any diferent now. a bit glossier, but that's about it. since the early 100s it's been a catalogue with extras and it still is now. i bought some mid 2000s WDs on ebay recently to see hwat i had been missing during the drunk years, and it was awful, much worse than it is now or was in 1990-94 when i first read it. each month it has some new miniatures, a battle report, some people's ainted armies, and some other gak. same as it was years ago. why does it make people so angry?

 daddyorchips wrote:
i don't see what the issue is with White Dwarf. I used to read it back in the early 90s, and it's hardly any diferent now. a bit glossier, but that's about it. since the early 100s it's been a catalogue with extras and it still is now. i bought some mid 2000s WDs on ebay recently to see hwat i had been missing during the drunk years, and it was awful, much worse than it is now or was in 1990-94 when i first read it. each month it has some new miniatures, a battle report, some people's ainted armies, and some other gak. same as it was years ago. why does it make people so angry?

Agreed. Early-mid 2000s White Dwarf is substantially worse than the modern period. I was reading one of my old White Dwarfs recently to try to find a fluff article and I was shocked by how unprofessional the magazine was back then.

I still enjoy buying the magazine on my ipad.

You mean RENTING it for a lifetime....

 daddyorchips wrote:
i don't see what the issue is with White Dwarf. I used to read it back in the early 90s, and it's hardly any diferent now. a bit glossier, but that's about it. since the early 100s it's been a catalogue with extras and it still is now. i bought some mid 2000s WDs on ebay recently to see hwat i had been missing during the drunk years, and it was awful, much worse than it is now or was in 1990-94 when i first read it. each month it has some new miniatures, a battle report, some people's ainted armies, and some other gak. same as it was years ago. why does it make people so angry?

People play into groupthink. They don't do research for themselves, and most of them have never been "wronged" or slighted in any way, but they like going with the (loudest) flow. The current magazine is TONS better than the ones even from the late 90's. I know, I still have all those. Now there are way more hobby articles, painting cliniques, and the armies in the battles now belong to real people instead of the studios. That's actually refreshing to see armies NOT perfectly painted. Then they show us how they make the table afterwards. I'm excited about the current magazine.

Most of the whiners (see 9 of 10 gamers) haven't read the new ones. They just remember complaining to be in on the joke, and stick with it. Just as there are people who believe Grey Knights are still OP (even though they haven't been since 6th dropped), and that GW is still taking 6 months off between army releases. People complain about prices, but play games more expensive (model-for-model); they act as if they are owed something, but pirate every publication via torrent.

People are angry because it's easy to fit in with that crowd. I'm not saying no one has a legitimate gripe, but many of these people - once you actually get to meet them in person - are simply uninformed.

THANK YOU BRASS ANGEL......that was the best post I've read on dakka in months and the reason I hit exalt. Now I'm going to run from this thread before you get burned at the stake by the horde of unwashed neck beards.

brassangel.

That may be the greatest post I have ever seen on this topic. I exalt your post, and will after posting this do an actual golf clap in your honor.

Is the stance that the only people who think White Dwarf has declined in quality over the years are "whiners" who never read it (yet confusingly also, torrent it, presumably deleting it unread)' the percentage of which comprise 90% of gamers, and all of whom are just trying to fit in with the cool kids actually something people believe?

Do you have a hard time painting miniatures? It seems the only brush you own is pretty wide.

 Ouze wrote:
Is the stance that the only people who think White Dwarf has declined in quality over the years are "whiners" who never read it (yet confusingly also, torrent it, presumably deleting it unread)' the percentage of which comprise 90% of gamers, and all of whom are just trying to fit in with the cool kids actually something people believe?

Do you have a hard time painting miniatures? It seems the only brush you own is pretty wide.

Now here is an exalt worthy post.

WD is currently the worst it has ever been, this month was a little better with at least a couple of articles but that is it.

Admittedly in the past the journalism may have been a little lacking but at least there was content. Articles about tactica, modelling, fluff.

Now there is a dearth of real content. Pages and pages of other peoples models, 50 pages of new releases and basic and insulting painting guides.

This isnt all rose tinted glasses. The current magazine is a shocker.

The current WD is a great example style of over content.
Yes, it glossy and has lots of pages of good quality stock paper.
And the level of production has improved noticeably recently.

However, the content is not that great in comparison.(Compared to current war game magazines, or WD of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

Yes the level of presentation back then could be seen as a bit 'amateurish' .But it was interesting engaging and felt like there was a GENUINE love of ALL aspects of the hobby.
(Unlike the current pimping the latest releases with glossy pictures and special rules ...)

IF GW plc was an ACTUAL games company.They would focus on GAME PLAY to drive and sustain interest in their minatures and associated product.

And before the internet became available WD was a great way to keep the game updated .But now the internet is the best way to keep games updated IMO,

 brassangel wrote:
People play into groupthink. They don't do research for themselves, and most of them have never been "wronged" or slighted in any way, but they like going with the (loudest) flow... people are angry because it's easy to fit in with that crowd. I'm not saying no one has a legitimate gripe, but many of these people - once you actually get to meet them in person - are simply uninformed.

Great post, exalted. It doesn't just apply to the war between the so-called "haters" and "white knights" either-- this is actually a good explanation for lots of behavior both on Dakka and in everyday life!

Lanrak wrote:
The current WD is a great example style of over content.
Yes, it glossy and has lots of pages of good quality stock paper.
And the level of production has improved noticeably recently.

However, the content is not that great in comparison.(Compared to current war game magazines, or WD of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)

Yes the level of presentation back then could be seen as a bit 'amateurish' .But it was interesting engaging and felt like there was a GENUINE love of ALL aspects of the hobby.
(Unlike the current pimping the latest releases with glossy pictures and special rules ...)

IF GW plc was an ACTUAL games company.They would focus on GAME PLAY to drive and sustain interest in their minatures and associated product.

And before the internet became available WD was a great way to keep the game updated .But now the internet is the best way to keep games updated IMO,

As always Lanrak it's a pleasure to read your posts. The WD of the late 80's early 90's where amateurish at best by today's standards. There where tons of typo and grammatical errors. But the enthusiasm behind each article was amazing. You could feel the love they put into it.

I still have my box of late 80's early 90's WD. I still read them. I still learn stuff form the hobby articles. The early 2000's Fat Dwarf after Paul Sawyer left seemed to be the prototype for today's trash rag of a magazine.

To each their own tho.

 Ouze wrote:
Is the stance that the only people who think White Dwarf has declined in quality over the years are "whiners" who never read it (yet confusingly also, torrent it, presumably deleting it unread)' the percentage of which comprise 90% of gamers, and all of whom are just trying to fit in with the cool kids actually something people believe?

Do you have a hard time painting miniatures? It seems the only brush you own is pretty wide.

I think that might just be one of the wittiest burns I've seen in a long time, bravo.

Shame it won't have any effect, White Knights have a 2++ save against reality.

 brassangel wrote:

 daddyorchips wrote:
i don't see what the issue is with White Dwarf. I used to read it back in the early 90s, and it's hardly any diferent now. a bit glossier, but that's about it. since the early 100s it's been a catalogue with extras and it still is now. i bought some mid 2000s WDs on ebay recently to see hwat i had been missing during the drunk years, and it was awful, much worse than it is now or was in 1990-94 when i first read it. each month it has some new miniatures, a battle report, some people's ainted armies, and some other gak. same as it was years ago. why does it make people so angry?

People play into groupthink. They don't do research for themselves, and most of them have never been "wronged" or slighted in any way, but they like going with the (loudest) flow. The current magazine is TONS better than the ones even from the late 90's. I know, I still have all those. Now there are way more hobby articles, painting cliniques, and the armies in the battles now belong to real people instead of the studios. That's actually refreshing to see armies NOT perfectly painted. Then they show us how they make the table afterwards. I'm excited about the current magazine.

Most of the whiners (see 9 of 10 gamers) haven't read the new ones. They just remember complaining to be in on the joke, and stick with it. Just as there are people who believe Grey Knights are still OP (even though they haven't been since 6th dropped), and that GW is still taking 6 months off between army releases. People complain about prices, but play games more expensive (model-for-model); they act as if they are owed something, but pirate every publication via torrent.

People are angry because it's easy to fit in with that crowd. I'm not saying no one has a legitimate gripe, but many of these people - once you actually get to meet them in person - are simply uninformed.

Well putting aside your insults to people I also disagree that the WD is any good at all these days. I started buying WD at exactly issue 100 and carried on buying it by subscription or in store for many years. The magazine like most others varied quite a bit in quality from month to month.

In my opinion the quality of the content deteriorated markedly in recent years and the price became just too high. It is a very easy choice to not buy it and I do not understand why people are even concerned about its low quality. The magazine is a dinosaur and needs to be retired. I am just astonished that people keep buying it but obviously they are finding something enjoyable about it, I just cant fathom what that might be.

GW used to support many more games so there was more stuff to cover in the magazine and they were more inclined to present new rules in the WD. Now because GW wants to sell you terrain or terrain kits it is not in there interest to publish modelling articles on how to scratch build a lot of stuff. I honestly just do not see the point of the magazine anymore. Its almost a magazine that cant have hobby content because other than just painting GW wants to sell you everything else (which I am not opposed to of course).

 Kingsley wrote:

 brassangel wrote:
People play into groupthink. They don't do research for themselves, and most of them have never been "wronged" or slighted in any way, but they like going with the (loudest) flow... people are angry because it's easy to fit in with that crowd. I'm not saying no one has a legitimate gripe, but many of these people - once you actually get to meet them in person - are simply uninformed.

Great post, exalted. It doesn't just apply to the war between the so-called "haters" and "white knights" either-- this is actually a good explanation for lots of behavior both on Dakka and in everyday life!

You took the words right out of my mouth. Err... fingers. Whatever.

It's similar to the reason that "HURRR MAT WARD" shows up in so many GW threads. It's not that people can't have a legitimate problem with something, but there are plenty of people who just jump on the bandwagon because they think it is cool or funny when in fact it is neither.

The WD I remember when I was a kid was COOL...
I learned how to make foamcore buildings..
I learned how to dry brush and ink...
I read adventures for my D&D game...
I learned how to actually make a Whirlwind...
There was a neat catalouge in the back if I wanted to get a specific miniature...
Now I can .... Look at a pretty picture.

Really cool...

Worth is in the eye of the beholder.

Bizarre levels of irrationality on this thread.

Maybe its that time of the month when there's only bad news on your beloved castle of cards and some feel the need to vomit hate online.

Slipstream wrote:
Ok, while travelling to work today I came up with this idea, and no it is not a joke. Everyone seems to agree that White Dwarf is not worth buying anymore so how about this; stop printing the magazine and instead do a magazine that is solely codex/WH army book but in the form of a magazine. That way all armies would be kept up to date and be relevant to the current rules. Personally I don't care whether there are miniatures to tie in with a release, they can release them whenever they are ready. A wild idea, but imagine being able to have your army updated relatively quickly and lets face it, we all have more than enough minis to outfit our armies without a real need for new stuff.
The other advantage would be the price; just think, a codex for the average price of a magazine off the news stands.
Simplistic, but sometimes simple is better.
Thoughts?

When your house is burning down, it's the wrong time to start painting.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Bizarre levels of irrationality on this thread.

Maybe its that time of the month when there's only bad news on your beloved castle of cards and some feel the need to vomit hate online.

Previous to your posting, not only do I not see "irrational hate" in this thread, I don't see hate period.

When I first started the HHHobby, I picked up a dozen old WD's on Ebay. I thought they were terrific, and immediately subscribed. I found the subscription was awesome for the first issue (I lucked into a rare gem) but the rest pretty much totally sucked and I did not renew it. I have since gotten grab bags from the Warstore which included the new-format WD as well (the CSM one, specifically), and found it to be much nicer looking, but just as vacuous. In my opinion, the old ones had better content; and I say this without any cloud of nostalgia since I experienced all of them within the same timeframe.

But, do I hate WD? That's just... weird. Why would anyone hate White Dwarf? It's like you have a totally alcoholic friend who drinks so much he craps his pants and doesn't even know it. Would you hate this friend? Unless you had a white couch, probably not - you'd just be saddened and embarrassed by him. If it kept happening, month after month, you'd eventually not want to hang out with this person anymore. But would you hate him? No; you'd think about how much fun you used to have with him, and hope he could get his gak together so you can hang out with him again some day. Maybe you'd be disappointed that he's still sitting there on the curb, telling some drunken meandering story to a fire hydrant, a half-empty Olde English 800 in his hands, with his soggy, beshatten pants, but you wouldn't hate him. I don't, anyway.

 Ouze wrote:
Would you hate this friend? Unless you had a white couch, probably not - you'd just be saddened and embarrassed by him. If it kept happening, month after month, you'd eventually not want to hang out with this person anymore. But would you hate him? No; you'd think about how much fun you used to have with him, and hope he could get his gak together so you can hang out with him again some day.

I don't think i have ever had the way i feel about WD summed up so eloquently. Exalted

 Ouze wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Bizarre levels of irrationality on this thread.

Maybe its that time of the month when there's only bad news on your beloved castle of cards and some feel the need to vomit hate online.

Previous to your posting, not only do I not see "irrational hate" in this thread, I don't see hate period.

When I first started the HHHobby, I picked up a dozen old WD's on Ebay. I thought they were terrific, and immediately subscribed. I found the subscription was awesome for the first issue (I lucked into a rare gem) but the rest pretty much totally sucked and I did not renew it. I have since gotten grab bags from the Warstore which included the new-format WD as well (the CSM one, specifically), and found it to be much nicer looking, but just as vacuous. In my opinion, the old ones had better content; and I say this without any cloud of nostalgia since I experienced all of them within the same timeframe.

But, do I hate WD? That's just... weird. Why would anyone hate White Dwarf? It's like you have a totally alcoholic friend who drinks so much he craps his pants and doesn't even know it. Would you hate this friend? Unless you had a white couch, probably not - you'd just be saddened and embarrassed by him. If it kept happening, month after month, you'd eventually not want to hang out with this person anymore. But would you hate him? No; you'd think about how much fun you used to have with him, and hope he could get his gak together so you can hang out with him again some day. Maybe you'd be disappointed that he's still sitting there on the curb, telling some drunken meandering story to a fire hydrant, a half-empty Olde English 800 in his hands, with his soggy, beshatten pants, but you wouldn't hate him. I don't, anyway.

Actually I was referring to the hate some have towards people who dislike WD... things like

"Most of the whiners (see 9 of 10 gamers) haven't read the new ones. They just remember complaining to be in on the joke, and stick with it. Just as there are people who believe Grey Knights are still OP (even though they haven't been since 6th dropped), and that GW is still taking 6 months off between army releases. People complain about prices, but play games more expensive (model-for-model); they act as if they are owed something, but pirate every publication via torrent.

People are angry because it's easy to fit in with that crowd. I'm not saying no one has a legitimate gripe, but many of these people - once you actually get to meet them in person - are simply uninformed."

Are of a very irrational mindset. Much like a 3 year old that sees the world in black and white.
When you see someone attacking pretty much everyone that he does disagree with in such a blind by hate way you know he is venting away his frustration about other things ( in this case the crumbling castle of cards).

I took the exact opposite of what you meant, my mistake.

 Ouze wrote:
I took the exact opposite of what you meant, my mistake.

Ditto.

It's 'cause we're all paranoid Ouze. We're always seeing the shiny glint of a white knight's armour in the corner of our eyes, even when they're not really there.

This sounds like an interesting idea. The only problem is see with it is that

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