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With the growing number of xenos players and competitive builds units that were decent are now becoming amazing. A primary example of this happened today.

I ran my IG/SW army. Some key players involved. My missile launching long fangs. These have been fading recently but with so many xenos its never a bad idea to drop 5 S4 templates. The MVP of my day though goes to a unit I havent run in a while. It has always been good but with the new meta I would make an argument for it being an auto include. I ran a hellhound with a hull mounted flamer. This unit can really put some hurt on from range and can even outflank if need be. Most units seeking to benefit from cover have an armor save of 4+ or worse. Which means this guy is killing anything within 20". He was my troop killer and actually didn't die in all 3 of my tournament games today where I took 2nd out of 18 and qualified for feast of blades again this year.

What have been your all's solutions for the rise of the xenos? Units that were not that good against MEQ are now beginning to shine.

What have been your all's solutions for the rise of the xenos? Units that were not that good against MEQ are now beginning to shine.

True.

Xenos units often have lower toughness or weaker armor saves when compared with MEQ. This makes several template weapons applicable that have no serious impact on Marines.

Has anyone else started having success against xenos armies with units they used to not run?

I had some great luck with my Whirlwind! I play DA and for only a small point investment, it's very useful. I had excellent luck with it against a tau player recently, and it's even been doing well against CSM.

Pkakes101 wrote:
I had some great luck with my Whirlwind! I play DA and for only a small point investment, it's very useful. I had excellent luck with it against a tau player recently, and it's even been doing well against CSM.

You might actually be on to something. Whirlwinds used to be so terrible but that was in a marine heavy meta. You are seeing fewer and fewer marine armies out there now.

Only for a month or two until the new Marine codex comes out. But....

I run 2 hellhounds w/multi-meltas and think of them as "Auto include" as well.

I tested out a squad of two Colossus' and they rocked Newdar hard.

Also had an Eradicator which worked very well.

Now that I think of it I think half my list ignored cover lol.

I have always been a fan of manticores and have considered them auto include for a while. With the increase in model count while simultaneously decreasing the average save I might consider running a second manticore.

Ah...a time for nostalgia.

Back in 5th, I was primarily an Imperial player, playing all the "good" guy armies.

I've since then did a 180. Now in 6th, I am mostly a Xenos player playing all the "bad" guys (or the non-Imperial armies)....and I am loving it. Of course it helps that we are getting all the good toys nowadays, but that is just coincidence for my going to the dark side.

In any case, there are still many gems which make the Imperials competitive. One of the most noticeable is that IG is battle brothers with many of the marine armies. That means the most successful teamup for the Imperials in tournament play is the IG blob squad with an ATSKNF marine character. That has become the cornerstone for many successful Imperial builds. ATSKNF is really good, even better than Stubborn or Fearless.

For the wolves, IMO rune priests are mandatory. With eldar out, space wolves have got arguably the best psychic defense in the game in an Edition that is trending increasingly towards psyker armies (and flyers) as some of the most competitive builds. Not only that, but RP's are a great utility unit with many good powers.

For marines, if you haven't used Thunderfire cannons before, now is the time to do so. Artillery is in. Artillery that can kill loads of infantry is a no-brainer. Definitely worth considering.

Also, do not discount the humble Stormtalon. They are a great buy and a great AA solution for the marines. They continue to surprise me whenever I play against them. Ironically, and maybe this is just me, but I've had more problems facing the stormtalons than I do almost any other flyers.

For the grey knights, I know a lot of people have dropped them in favor of dreadknights, but I am still a big fan of the psyfleman dread (GK dreadnought with 2x TL-autocannons + psybolt ammo). In my balanced GK lists, I prefer the dreadnoughts over the dreadknights. With each new codex coming out, dreadnoughts are becoming more and more vital once again. They are great and insta-snuffing multi-wound daemons and broadsides/crisis suits. They are the best weapon GK's have against flyers (besides the ADL + skyfire gun). Finally, the new eldar trend is war walkers and wave serpent serpent shields. Guess what psyflemans do to them?

For IG, there are many good units. However, I think there is a gem in the griffons. Ultra-cheap and excellent at killing infantry, you should seriously take a look at a pair of these bad boys if you normally fight a lot of xenos. Hellhounds are good also, though it would be hard to give up your vendettas for them in a competitive IG army.

That's it for now. I may come back later with more.

I'm getting a kick out of all the SW/IG/BA/Marines of any flavor were actually closet Eldar fans this whole time. Seriously, all the guys I know who are starting Eldar 'love the fluff and the models' which is why they want to build an army...

Of course, all of the new broken units and amazingly powerful combos are pure coincidence.

I just got tired of playing MEQ armies for so long and needed a change of scenery. It also helped that my friend, who used to play mechdar, was unloading his army and I had a need for speed.

BTW, eldar really does have some cool models.

I put Heavy Psycannons on my Dreadknights. I load up squads of DA Assault Marines in Drop Pods w/2 Flamers and a combi-flamer. Whirlwinds are solid. Hellhounds have always been good but people are finally starting to realize that torrent is an amazing ability.

No new units recently but that's because I've been considering killing blobs since the edition dropped so in the last year the Xenos codexes have only played to what I saw as a worry at the beginning of the edition.

 jy2 wrote:
I just got tired of playing MEQ armies for so long and needed a change of scenery. It also helped that my friend, who used to play mechdar, was unloading his army and I had a need for speed.

BTW, eldar really does have some cool models.

They do... I have a massive Eldar collection from 5th when 5 DA in a wave serpent x 6 was about the only good build. I have over 60 jet bikes, all painted, all the grav tanks, most of the phoenix lords...

And, quite honestly, I've shelved the army because it's too good. I could go to the shop every saturday and smash people but I'm afraid people wouldn't want to play me anymore. You enter into a social contract with your opponent to sit down for 2 hrs and play a game. I played xenos all through 5th because I wanted my opponent to have a good time. This is especially true with Tyranids because no matter how well I did, my opponent will kill a bunch of stuff and have a good time.

With codex eldar... it's all stupidly good. I feel like you could pretty much randomly select units out of the book and do well. Wave Serpents are amazing, Fire prisms are SO good... heck, anything with a shuriken weapon rends now which is huge. I'm really not looking forward to the apocalypse game where a guardian kills my Hierophant... Eldar and Tau have broken so many of the game rules (ignores cover, overwatches with everything, give your units whatever USRs you want, ap 2 on most everything...) that they are on a totally different level than the rest of the books, even the ones released in 6th. Look at chaos and DA... They are actually pretty well balanced minus a few units being the obvious choice in your list (heldrakes, ravenwing). They compete with everything else. I just don't see how most armies could beat Eldar. Look online at all the battle reports and watch guardians mow down terminators and warp spiders blowing up vehicles from upwards of 30" away and then jumping back way out of counter assault range.

They messed up Eldar bad. I know Space Wolves were tough followed by Grey Knights and Necrons... but I could beat those lists. Eldar is too good and I just can't bring myself to play them.

Whirlwinds and Thunderfires are much more viable with Xenos running around me thinks.

Actually add dakka-Predator on top of that.

Leman Russ Eradicator people, especially with bolter boat sponsons, will put the hurt on Tau and Eldar alike. Sometimes against pure daemon lists as well, as they can put out alot of firepower.

I made my choice to go IG and I plan on staying with IG, I may get some SM allies in the future, but IG will always be my primary. Tanks baby!

My Thunder Fire Cannon is a champ against weakling xenos hiding behind cover.
If my Penitent Engines can get close enough, they can dish out some flamming hurt....but that's IF they get close enough. :(

I have found it imperative to take weapons that can ignore cover. Tau can ignore cover with marker lights, so I choose the Collossus as a xenos slaying star! Str 6 means you are doubling out most xeno's toughnesses, ap3 eates through power armor and worse and ignoring cover means those little buggers with marker lights have nowhere to hide. Did I mention it can indirect fire without line of sight. Which is another nasty trick tau have. I lost a 30 man platoon to indirect missile spam and marker lights negating my cover saves over the course of a game. It was very frustrating. I think taking more av 14 goes a little further against them also. I haven't played eldar yet... I am not liking forward to it.

(Fingers crossed for the new sm dex)

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
I have found it imperative to take weapons that can ignore cover. Tau can ignore cover with marker lights, so I choose the Collossus as a xenos slaying star! Str 6 means you are doubling out most xeno's toughnesses, ap3 eates through power armor and worse and ignoring cover means those little buggers with marker lights have nowhere to hide. Did I mention it can indirect fire without line of sight. Which is another nasty trick tau have. I lost a 30 man platoon to indirect missile spam and marker lights negating my cover saves over the course of a game. It was very frustrating. I think taking more av 14 goes a little further against them also. I haven't played eldar yet... I am not liking forward to it.

(Fingers crossed for the new sm dex)

QFT! Land Raider Spam is actually a strong tactic atm because you can combat squad out of them and armies are coming in with fewer weapons then ever that can deal with AV 14. My 4 LR dark angels list would actually throw the meta a curve. With the current almost obvious codex creep I am worried what the next dex might have in it.

Codex creep works for the xenos now, but at this rate of creeping power growth, Sisters of Battle will be the mightiest army EVER!! Calculate rate of creep, 5%, by time of codex release for Sisters of Battle, 100 years, and you'll get an army that will stomp over any heretic scum or filthy xenos without trying.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Codex creep works for the xenos now, but at this rate of creeping power growth, Sisters of Battle will be the mightiest army EVER!! Calculate rate of creep, 5%, by time of codex release for Sisters of Battle, 100 years, and you'll get an army that will stomp over any heretic scum or filthy xenos without trying.

Yea with the decrease in the value of MEQ my sisters get even worse. Would be nice to get a codex rather then an update. Battle sisters are veterans with power armor. I dont even take carapace armor on my vets.

Yeah but with codex creep and the 100+ years it'll take to actually get a codex, they'll have "Shield of the Emperor" or something that makes them to immune to shooting or whatever.

Or, they'll just copy and past the WD "codex" and call it good.

But codex creep is happening. Soon Chaos will be the weakest army. But, we'll see how the Space Marine Dex is before I write off my Imperial Fists.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Yeah but with codex creep and the 100+ years it'll take to actually get a codex, they'll have "Shield of the Emperor" or something that makes them to immune to shooting or whatever.

Or, they'll just copy and past the WD "codex" and call it good.

But codex creep is happening. Soon Chaos will be the weakest army. But, we'll see how the Space Marine Dex is before I write off my Imperial Fists.

The problem with this idea is that 100 years from now a tactical marine will cost the same as a small tropical island.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Yeah but with codex creep and the 100+ years it'll take to actually get a codex, they'll have "Shield of the Emperor" or something that makes them to immune to shooting or whatever.

Or, they'll just copy and past the WD "codex" and call it good.

But codex creep is happening. Soon Chaos will be the weakest army. But, we'll see how the Space Marine Dex is before I write off my Imperial Fists.

The problem with this idea is that 100 years from now a tactical marine will cost the same as a small tropical island.

LOL! Dang, you might be right.

I find flamers with infiltrating units works amazing. Very few armies don't charge when there is a force on their doorstep.

Null zone is also very strong right now as many of the xenos only have invul saves or have invul saves that are better than their normal save. Take the Grimoire Screamers where the have a 3++ invul that rerolls 1s since a dice can only be rerolled once forcing them to reroll successes dramatically reduces their survivability.

And not to get on a rant about those screamers but many people seem to think you can use the rule book Forewaring spell first and push it up to a 2++, but I would point you to the second page of the rule book (multiple modifiers) where set modifiers are always done last regardless of timing (and yes saving throws are a stat).

For SM Salamanders for the twin linked flamers is really good, and twin linked melta is never bad

Is there a Rise in Xenos or a lack of Space Marine armies?

I'd argue that you're not seeing any chapters on the battlefield because they have only come up with one marine codex (not including CSM as they are EVIL!!!). And to be fair, DA is arguably the worst of the 6th edition codices.

After C:SM comes out, you'll see a large resurgent in Space Marines again. Not only will you see more because of the band wagon, but older players will bring out their first armies, the boys in blue. Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists seem to be very popular as well.

Plenty of Imperium in my Meta, I'd say 75% of my opponents are IG or SM+IG allies.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Plenty of Imperium in my Meta, I'd say 75% of my opponents are IG or SM+IG allies.

A few years ago it was like that here.

Now I go to an event and see maybe 1 out of every 5 players as imperial. Its very refreshing, actually.

Saythings wrote:
And to be fair, DA is arguably the worst of the 6th edition codices.

This I disagree with. Personally from a flavor and flexibility standpoint Chaos is the worst codex of 6th but they all hold it together rather well. Especially because of the rise of Xenos. Anyone else able to deliver 3 flamer templates on turn 1 without worry for 105pts? The cheap Tac Squads all by themselves and the options to take heavy/specials at 5 dudes means they are super competitive if built right.

But overall I'm happy to see more Xenos. It's good to have variety and compared to late middle-late 5th edition we really do.

 Hulksmash wrote:

Saythings wrote:
And to be fair, DA is arguably the worst of the 6th edition codices.

This I disagree with. Personally from a flavor and flexibility standpoint Chaos is the worst codex of 6th but they all hold it together rather well. Especially because of the rise of Xenos. Anyone else able to deliver 3 flamer templates on turn 1 without worry for 105pts? The cheap Tac Squads all by themselves and the options to take heavy/specials at 5 dudes means they are super competitive if built right.

But overall I'm happy to see more Xenos. It's good to have variety and compared to late middle-late 5th edition we really do.

QFT! It is kind of nice to see a couple of different armies more often rather then GK with a side of GK.

Come to think of it GK are actually the one of the armies hit the hardest by the rise in body count/xenos armies. They cant weather the dakka as well as other armies.

When in doubt...PURGE IT WITH FIRE!

I see flamers quickly making a comeback.