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I'm frustrated with the TO at my local Games Workshop right now, but I can't decide if I should skip the upcoming tournament because of it or not...
I tend to (nearly always) win when I play pickup games there, but this has a lot to do with lack of competition. (There's about 4 people who show up consistently besides me, 2 are really new, and 1 is pretty awful at the game.) Among the 5 people who come, I'm the only one there with more than 1 Army, (Orks, Space Wolves, and Sisters of Battle) and the only one with a Firestorm Redoubt.
So, after the tournament was announced, I decide to start working on my list. I'm at GW at the time, chatting with him about the Tournament. I mention that I plan on taking Orks with Space Wolf allies. Orks to deal with Anti-Air, Space Wolves would actually be over half the points and deal with anti-tank, Anti-2+ armor, and anti-infantry. I rrealize that it's a mediocre combo because I can't deploy them nearby, but I didn't want to take pure Orks because they're an old, fairly mediocre codex and I didn't want to take pure wolves because Helldrakes and Necrons. I tell bhim why, talk tactics for a minute, then continue fiddling with points on the list.

Five minutes later, he says "You know what, I think I'll ban allies for this tournament."

Okay, well dang. But, I at least had one other option, right? The Firestorm Redoubt (while I'm questioning how effective the actual guns are) at least provides great cover and decent enough Anti-Air. Plus, one squad of Long Fangs can park inside, right? I just decided to ask, though, and he said that it will count as only having one fire point. Even if I model it differently, I couldn't convince him to let more than 2 people fire from it.

Now, obviously I can't prove anything, but judging by these two rulings one after the other and the fact that he tends to be biased towards newer or losing players when rules discrepancies come up (as opposed to trying to decide on the correct ruling,) it seems pretty apparent that this is a direct response to try and nerf my competitiveness at the Tournament.

Am I crazy? This is of course only my viewpoint of the issue, but I can't figure out any other reason for the allies ruling. I'm also not sure if I want to compete in a tournament where I'm almost garunteed to face aircraft, (there's a flier-spam necron Crescent of Doom player who comeswwhenever there is a tourny,) but either have nothing to deal with it or am taking inferior or nerfed models, sacrificing my competitive edge against anyone who isn't fliers.

Ouch.

You can try and ally in some tau with orks for some interceptor goodness...

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Ouch.

You can try and ally in some tau with orks for some interceptor goodness...

He banned allies. Period. I can't use anyone with anyone, which kills both of my codices.

If you don't want weird house rules, don't play at tournaments.

There's just no way around it.

Allies are a normal thing of 40k now, so i'd say it falls under the "wtf?" category of house rules. If you dont like it, dont show up. Even if its models i never use, i dont like hanging around people who house rule you cant field certain units because its usually they dont know how to deal with it so they ban it (allies being a good example, since now you have two mini-armies to deal with)

Or maybe you can.learn to use one army to its strengths rather than cheesily plugging holes with other books?

I don't mind house rules per-say or even the ones he chose, it's that they were chosen in a direct attempt to weaken my army, not to balance the game.
Is this something worth skipping out over, though? I don't want to overreact.

Solofalcon: I don't normally use Allies, but at a Pay-to-Play tournament where there'll be prizes, I want to give myself a fighting chance against some of the more ridiculous armies that I know will be there.

So you say the TO conspired to have you lose a tournament because your army can't stand alone?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So you say the TO conspired to have you lose a tournament because your army can't stand alone?

No, I'm saying he conspired against me because I beat a few people a whole lot, but it will be much harder to beat other better players without using allies. Nice subtle insult though, I like it.

Didn't realize TOs were always supposed to make thi.gs easy. It is a tournament, after all.

My only good suggestion is to take the TO aside and privately explain the situation calmly and politely. Ask him for his logic behind these decisions and see if you can come up with a solution that fits with both ideologies. If he's banning Allies because he doesn't like certain combinations is it possible to get a list of banned Allies (about the only limitation-related house rule at my FLGS is that Forge World army lists can't take or be taken as Allies) and a list of permitted ones? If he thinks the Firestorm is unfair to new players, then point out that flyerspam is probably more unfair and suggest either banning both or neither? See if he'll run a doubles event pairing up less experienced players with more experienced players to balance the whole thing out? Suggest alternating new-player-friendly tournaments with the restrictions and crunchier tournaments without them?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Didn't realize TOs were always supposed to make thi.gs easy. It is a tournament, after all.

I didn't realize that TO's could change rules just for the sake of making things harder.

Maybe we could get them to increase all unit costs by 20 points.

I find it very hard to believe that this is a proper, full-on *tournament* being organised by a member of GW staff, unless he's doing it as a function outside of his store duties (at a nearby club instead or something). More likely, he's trying to arrange something akin to a campaign that will be fun for his regulars.

If that's the case, see it for what it is and stop trying to build a list that you know in all likelihood will roflstomp the people you're already thrashing - it'll be no fun for them and GW store events don't usually pick up different players because they either a) never find out if they don't come to the store already or b) they'll be put off from being TOO new. If you want a challenge, find a proper non-GW tournament instead.

The TO is TFG. Deal with him like you deal with any other TFG, by staying far away from him.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
I didn't realize that TO's could change rules just for the sake of making things harder.

Without agreeing personally with the idea of tailoring a tournament's rules to hinder one specific player, it's worth pointing out that TO's can change whatever rules they like. They're running the event, they can do what they want with it.

Players can choose whether or not to endorse those changes by entering the event, or not.

 Super Ready wrote:
I find it very hard to believe that this is a proper, full-on *tournament* being organised by a member of GW staff, unless he's doing it as a function outside of his store duties (at a nearby club instead or something). More likely, he's trying to arrange something akin to a campaign that will be fun for his regulars.

If that's the case, see it for what it is and stop trying to build a list that you know in all likelihood will roflstomp the people you're already thrashing - it'll be no fun for them and GW store events don't usually pick up different players because they either a) never find out if they don't come to the store already or b) they'll be put off from being TOO new. If you want a challenge, find a proper non-GW tournament instead.

It's in addition to his regular duties, probably to draw people into the store. He first tried running a campaign, but nobody signed up for it because you had to buy 70 dollars of GW products to be signed up and there was no prize. The Tournament was its replacement.

I also try not to ROFLstomp the people who already play or take particularly powerful lists. I will take Lootas and Rune Priests, but I'll do it alongside Blood Claws or 30-man squads of 'ard boys. I generally play assault armies when I'm not in a tournament.

If it's as a GW event, run in the store, then his number one priority is going to be to get people in the store which will boost sales, and the way to do that is to make sure that everyone involved has fun. The other way to swing it, of course, would be to try and convince everyone to buy flyers or fortifications and the like in preparation... but sounds like he's already tried that and failed.

Put yourself in his shoes - he's trying to arrange something to bring more people into the store, but runs the risk of someone twisting the rules of his tournament to build a crushing list to destroy all comers, defeating the point of doing it. You may well know that you're not going to go over-the-top, but that's clearly what he's worried about.

You could try talking to him in greater depth about it and try to reassure him that you won't go crazy.

 Super Ready wrote:
You could try talking to him in greater depth about it and try to reassure him that you won't go crazy.

Exactly. Improved communication vastly improves your prospects of getting anything done. Ask about the reasoning behind the decisions.

sounds like good rulings to me, allies is poorly implemented crap.

stop being a cheeeball.

Oh no, he banned the most TFG rule in 6th 40k. Darn!

I don't even know why you talked about him about the tournament and even went into full detail with your list. That was pretty naive.

Anyhow: he is the TO. Don't like his rules, don't attend.

I know the store you're playing at, as I'm from the KC area. I've only been in once before to pick up a vortex grenade template recently. The manager is a nice, cool guy, but he knows nothing of playing the game at any sort of competitive level. I asked him if he collected any 40k armies, and he told me that he occasionally purchases the models he likes simply to build/paint them. Which, don't get me wrong, I completely respect, but picturing this guy running a tournament doesn't really work in my mind. I believe he would be a great manager for running a campaign or a progressive league, but not a prize tournament. Why a GW employee would BAN a part of their own rulebook, I have no idea. If anything, he should be encouraging allies to boost sales.

I would suggest changing your mindset on the tournament. Pick up a codex at random and randomly generate your army with dice, then proceed to have a laughing good time with orks. After all, thats what GW stores are there for - getting people into the hobby.

Now, if you're like me, you won't be able to do this in a competition with a money prize. You're just too competitive, and you can't help it. In this case, find a different store with more like-minded people. Doesn't mean you can't come in and play a few rounds at the GW store. Just understand that different stores have different players and mindsets.

My store chooses a point value each week, and we play someone different. We test out how units work in different situations. Then, after our games, we talk about the effectiveness of everything, and how we think it would translate to a bigger scale tournament. Every place is different.

If you're interested in a different environment, or simply want to play against some new people, feel free to PM me for our store location in KC. We sound like like-minded individuals that could gain a lot from a good game!

(There's about 4 people who show up consistently besides me, 2 are really new, and 1 is pretty awful at the game.) Among the 5 people who come, I'm the only one there with more than 1 Army, (Orks, Space Wolves, and Sisters of Battle) and the only one with a Firestorm Redoubt.

TO looked up who came for a small tournament . Saw that only you can ally and use the new fortification . He noticed that out of the people who came half are new/bad and that it is going to be a very unfun event for half the people attending. A TOs job is not to make it fun for you or any other play , it is his job to make it fun for most players . half the people >you. The TO did a good thing.

This thread is a pretty good window into what kind of player each of the posters here are.

Me? Outright banning it rather than trying to fix it seems a tad lazy.

How would you fix this ? Your starting a small even for 6 people . Half of them are new or with bad armies . Only one has X , where X can be anything flyers or FW or ally. How do you make it so that all 6 people have fun and a chance to win , and that they may come for another even in the future ?

Makumba wrote:
How would you fix this ? Your starting a small even for 6 people . Half of them are new or with bad armies . Only one has X , where X can be anything flyers or FW or ally. How do you make it so that all 6 people have fun and a chance to win , and that they may come for another even in the future ?

Just let people take in an allied contingent from their own army? It's neither rocket science nor brain surgery.

 Kain wrote:

Just let people take in an allied contingent from their own army? It's neither rocket science nor brain surgery.

How would a new player have 3+ of the same hvy support or elite or FA . The only type of people that would have those are either those with 2k points dual foc armies and 2k points dual foc armies are hardly the type new players own or people who started with starter set x4+ . Not to mention they would also need troops for those and an third HQ

Not sure why people are saying it would be a better tournament for new/bad players without allies.

The mono army lists can be tailored to be just as competitive its just a different meta.

Sure you wont have Deamons/Heldrake, Taudar, DE/Eldar, or allied Rune Priests in Drop Pods

But you will have Necron flyer spam, IG flyer spam, Mono Eldar, Mono Tau, Tyranid MC Spam, ect

There is no reason to ban allies, its in the rulebook, it doesn't break the game. Not including allies does not make bad/old/poorly played armies better.

By not including allies all the TO is doing it forcing a different meta, one that has no real logical support.

I would just ask him why he isn't including allies, if he has no real reason just don't play there, because he is obviously biased.

Makumba wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Just let people take in an allied contingent from their own army? It's neither rocket science nor brain surgery.

How would a new player have 3+ of the same hvy support or elite or FA . The only type of people that would have those are either those with 2k points dual foc armies and 2k points dual foc armies are hardly the type new players own or people who started with starter set x4+ . Not to mention they would also need troops for those and an third HQ

Let 'em proxy models?

I even pass out some of my old minicons for people to use as space marines or other infantry and other transformers as standins for tanks and MCs for people starting out when my minis aren't available, but I'm pretty brotier like that.

Just as long as they return it, many of those are older than my kids.

No allies?
I'd be all over a tournament like that.
To me, that's what I want to see in a tournament.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Or maybe you can.learn to use one army to its strengths rather than cheesily plugging holes with other books?

I think this is a really unfair statement. I don't understand how people can call allies cheesy when they are as much apart of the game as other 'overpowered' units such as nightscythes of vendettas. To me this just sounds like you haven't adapted to the new rules and are taking it out on everyone else.