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I'm considering finally doing some marines, now that there's a new codex, and like the idea of a drop-pod army.

Vague unit ideas:

Thunderfires (w. empty pods)
5-man assault marines w. 2 flamers
2-3 tac squads.
Sternguard (1 or 2?)
maybe a dev squad
maybe a dread
Maybe termies

Question:
Which chapter tactics will be most beneficial?

I've pretty much ruled out these ones:
Black Templars - Don't need crusader squads
Raven Guard - Scout and jump-packs not really drop-pod strengths
Iron Hands - Few vehicles, other than the pods
White Scars - No need for bikes

That leaves:
Imperial Fists
Ultramarines
Salamanders

So, let me break down what I see as the advantages/disadvantages of each.

Imperial Fists
Bolter Drill provides a minor boost to bolters, except the sternguard. A lot of the drop pod strength should be in rapid-firing bolters.
Characters unlocked: Pedro makes Sternguard scoring, so I can take a couple units of them without losing scoring efficiency.
Lysander would be an attractive character to run with a termie squad.

Though I'm not really looking forward to painting yellow marines, and I don't like the crimson fist colours

Ultramarines
The three trait options all can be applied to the drop-pod approach, and strengthen the alpha-strike output from the pods.
Sicarus might be a decent hq option, for the +1 to reserves. Get more pods in faster.

Salamanders
I think the worst of the three choices, but the boost to flamers, and meltas (with Vulkan) does have synergy with the short-range of pod squads.



Any thoughts?

IF: Bolter drill and scoring sternguard are both great. Also, you don't need to paint your marines yellow (or blue). As long as everybody in your detachment has the same CT, you're good. You can run a "counts-as" Pedro with an IF successor of your choice.
Ultramarines: Obviously the best choice, because they're ultra-awesome. I would suggest Tigurius instead of Sicarius - he's cheaper, way more potent and his reserves manipulation is statistically stronger (not to mention the added benefit of helping you keep squads off the table if that's what you want).
Salamanders: I'm curious as to why you think this is the weakest choice. Twin-linked flamers and meltaguns have made this list the go-to for drop pod armies since 5e. In addition, master-crafted means your Sergeants' combis will pack a little more punch, even if they're plasma or grav.

I wouldnt rule out white scars in a drop pod army because it does still give your marines hit and run, which is broadly similar to combat tactics which we lost.

Also iron hands fo rthe 6+ FNP certainly aint bad either.

 Roboute wrote:
IF: Bolter drill and scoring sternguard are both great. Also, you don't need to paint your marines yellow (or blue). As long as everybody in your detachment has the same CT, you're good. You can run a "counts-as" Pedro with an IF successor of your choice.

Yeah, I know that. Just saying...

Ultramarines: Obviously the best choice, because they're ultra-awesome. I would suggest Tigurius instead of Sicarius - he's cheaper, way more potent and his reserves manipulation is statistically stronger (not to mention the added benefit of helping you keep squads off the table if that's what you want).

I hadn't noticed that. That's also pretty strong.

Salamanders: I'm curious as to why you think this is the weakest choice. Twin-linked flamers and meltaguns have made this list the go-to for drop pod armies since 5e. In addition, master-crafted means your Sergeants' combis will pack a little more punch, even if they're plasma or grav.

Right, but before, this was the go-to, because there weren't other options. The Tactical re-rolls from the ultramarine trait are going to be close to as useful (especially with combi-weapons). I guess if you use Tiggy, you have 2 turns of re-rolls too, one from his warlord trait and one from the chapter tactic.

Tigerius is a plus for Ultras. He rerolls reserves (successful or not) and has access to divinition. He also rerolls when determining psychic powers, so has a fair shot of getting exactly what you need. Yes malidictions and blessings can't be used on the drop but he's still a force multiplier afterwards. He also has the one use twin link warlord trait which is perfect for a pod list.

Salamanders mastercraft helps combi-weapons on sgts (small help I know, especially with Vulkan, but worth remembering).

If I was starting fresh on a drop pod army I'd probably go ultra. Tiggy is that good and their CT works pretty well in a pod army as well. The other two aren't bad though and as a Salamander player I'm leaning toward reworking my army into a drop list.

Ultramarines
That's my standard-response when people play an army that can fit any chapter.
At the moment the SC's from the UM's would be enough to take them.

Calgar: Pick your Warlord Trait and assault tanks, double rerolls too and a bombardment.
Sicarius: More droppods on T2, Tacticals with USR's and LD10 for everyone.
Tigurius: I refuse to talk about him as a BA-player. He makes all my Librarians depressed.
Well, okay: Diviniation is awesome and guarantees that almost all other pods drop on T2.
I mean.. Three dice for Reserve ánd a reroll? Give me a break!
And you can basically pick your powers, I'd take: Scrier's Gaze, Perfect Timing, Prescience (Primary)
Casius tells all other Chaplains to pack their stuff and go home.

Kangodo wrote:
Ultramarines
That's my standard-response when people play an army that can fit any chapter.
At the moment the SC's from the UM's would be enough to take them.

Calgar: Pick your Warlord Trait and assault tanks, double rerolls too and a bombardment.
Sicarius: More droppods on T2, Tacticals with USR's and LD10 for everyone.
Tigurius: I refuse to talk about him as a BA-player. He makes all my Librarians depressed.
Well, okay: Diviniation is awesome and guarantees that almost all other pods drop on T2.
I mean.. Three dice for Reserve ánd a reroll? Give me a break!
And you can basically pick your powers, I'd take: Scrier's Gaze, Perfect Timing, Prescience (Primary)
Casius tells all other Chaplains to pack their stuff and go home.

I wouldn't bother with Scrier's Gaze. Tigurius pretty much already has it with his reroll ability.

As for the Blood Angels...when we get a new codex, our librarians will be much better than Ultramarines libbys (same low price, universal divination). Plus, I'm thinking Mephiston will be a world beater. Level 4, plus who knows what else they could buff him up with. He'll be 50 points cheaper too, if recent trends are an indicator.

His own ability is strong enough, but!
1) You can always opt to keep them in reserve.
2) Your 1 in 9 chance to fail just became "non-existent".
3) Some armies can manipulate your reserve-roll, this is a way to counter that.
4) A near 100% guarantee to have ALL pods in T2 is awesome.
5) What else would you take?

If I could just choose Tigurius's powers, I'd probably take Prescience, Perfect Timing, and the power that grants a 4++. Scrier's Gaze is good, just not a big enough upgrade over what Tiggy already has that I'll be really happy when I end up with it.

Aah, I see.
My idea was to use that power once, than keep the Warp Charge ready to activate his Force Weapon since the other two are basically must-haves.

Tiggy all the way. He's a natural choice for pod lists. But I would attach him to a TFC (take the empty pod to force another into your first wave) and hide it behind terrain or buy a bastion/ vengeance battery.

Prescience on a TFC is nice. 4++ on a podded ironclad is nice. Dominate, hallucinate, and puppet master would help a pod list a lot too. Or an invisible ironclad. If you want to chance mixing powers, endurance (for relentless) and GoI on devestators on turn 1 to coincide with pod alpha strike. Or just Goi with centurions. Psychic shriek out of a pod can be brutal against daemons and tau with low LDR.

The possibilities are endless with so much psychic flexibility.

Salamanders and Imperial Fists hands down take best Pod lists in the Codex. TL Flamers coming out of Pods is incredible, and with Vulkan that extends to Meltas as well.

Imperial Fists on the other hand work on the less specialised weapons by having the 8 normal dudes in the unit more efficient coming out of the Pods, as well as making Sternguard scoring.

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Salamanders and Imperial Fists hands down take best Pod lists in the Codex. TL Flamers coming out of Pods is incredible, and with Vulkan that extends to Meltas as well.

Imperial Fists on the other hand work on the less specialised weapons by having the 8 normal dudes in the unit more efficient coming out of the Pods, as well as making Sternguard scoring.

Ooh, think of this XD
Tigurius:
-Tactical Doctrine
-Prescience
-'Storm of Fire' warlord trait.
For when you absolutely don't want to miss a single thing in the entire game :')
And he also guarantees your Reserves.

You can almost leave your dice at home

 Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Salamanders and Imperial Fists hands down take best Pod lists in the Codex. TL Flamers coming out of Pods is incredible, and with Vulkan that extends to Meltas as well.

Imperial Fists on the other hand work on the less specialised weapons by having the 8 normal dudes in the unit more efficient coming out of the Pods, as well as making Sternguard scoring.

Winterman mentioned it earlier, but Salamander's ability to mastercraft a combiweapon puts them in the lead IMO. Drop Pod armies are all about the alpha strike and the ability to pod in with twin linked flamers, mastercrafted meltaguns, and combi-plasma can quickly cripple an army. Multi-meltas even have a decent chance of hitting on the alphastrike and are well worth taking. Not only will they hit something turn one about 30% of the time but cause area denial in later turns.

Edit.

BTW My first army was an Iron Hands drop pod force and will be very happy with their upcoming performance. Hard enough to kill 60+ marines with long range support. Now I will have better better resilience.

I would have to say Salamanders have the best CT for pod armies still. IF and UM tactics are decent, but what makes them better in terms of Drop Pods?

UM seems like a good second choice, but even that only gets you 1 phase of TL on your tac squads. The second wave of Drop Pods are just going to be normal. TL Flamers every turn however, seem like they would perform better, especially for the units that get charged after dropping in.

Flamers and Melta do a lot of damage, but at short range. Pods allow you to get that destructive power close enough to maximize it's damage output.

Now -- there was a slight nerf to the effectiveness of it, which came in the form of point increases on Combi weapons. The old Combat Squadding 5x Combi-Flamer/5x Combi-Melta out of a pod is extremely expensive anymore, so now we have reduced firepower, but it is still quite good.

Taking dual flamer 5 man assault squads in a drop pod for only 95 points is wonderful. 2x Heavy Flamer sternguard squads are nice as well. Then we add in Vulkan and get twin-linked melta in our Tacs and Sternguard and it results in a very effective "in your face" playstyle.

Iron Hands are an amusing choice just to clutter the field with IWND Drop Pods.

Bolter drill and scoring sternguard are both great. Also, you don't need to paint your marines yellow (or blue). As long as everybody in your detachment has the same CT, you're good. You can run a "counts-as" Pedro with an IF successor of your choice.

To be honest though I am a fan of the Pedro Sternguard list in the end it is not worth doing for a few reasons, the biggest being that Sternguard do not benefit form the "Bolter Drill" Chapter tactic meaning if you do a Sternguard heavy army you are basically wasting a chapter tactic. Sternguard should be used as an Alpha Strike role with TAC Squads or Scouts being responsible for taking objectives.

I actually wouldn't rule out BTs for a massive drop pod list.

You'd have to do the math but you could squeeze in a bunch of 5-man squads with BOTH heavy AND special weapon AND a combi-weapon in a drop-pod.

Strictly theoretically speaking, you could run a double FOC list with 10 of the above-mentioned squads and still have some room for fire-support and/or anti-air.


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And you could still ally UM with Tigurius or Sicarius to mess with the reserves.

So what is it guys? UM or Salamander? I can see either way but due to the tactics of Sternguard....I'm leaning for the TL goodness of Salamanders.

 gmaleron wrote:

Bolter drill and scoring sternguard are both great. Also, you don't need to paint your marines yellow (or blue). As long as everybody in your detachment has the same CT, you're good. You can run a "counts-as" Pedro with an IF successor of your choice.

To be honest though I am a fan of the Pedro Sternguard list in the end it is not worth doing for a few reasons, the biggest being that Sternguard do not benefit form the "Bolter Drill" Chapter tactic meaning if you do a Sternguard heavy army you are basically wasting a chapter tactic. Sternguard should be used as an Alpha Strike role with TAC Squads or Scouts being responsible for taking objectives.

You are doing a sternguard based army for the scoring sternguard to fill out your scoring needs. Also if you plan to run devs/centurrions for dat sweet sweet tank hunter.

I guess the best way for me to build my pace marine army is to make my own chapter and go from there.....:( This would enable me go use any of the CT depending how I feel that day!

 phoenix darkus wrote:
I actually wouldn't rule out BTs for a massive drop pod list.

You'd have to do the math but you could squeeze in a bunch of 5-man squads with BOTH heavy AND special weapon AND a combi-weapon in a drop-pod.

Strictly theoretically speaking, you could run a double FOC list with 10 of the above-mentioned squads and still have some room for fire-support and/or anti-air.


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And you could still ally UM with Tigurius or Sicarius to mess with the reserves.

While the idea is interesting, I don't see how running MSU drop pods is beneficial. You need to fit as many bodies in your first turn pods as possible.

I think I'm in the UM camp here with Salamanders as a close second for these reasons:

Consider each an UM army with Tigurius, and a Salamanders list with Vulkan
1.) The Tactical Doctrine CT has excellent synergy with a pod list: reroll almost all of your alpha shooting which is critical.
While TL Flamers and melta are awesome, pseudo TL EVERYTHING is better even if its just for the one turn. All the 1's you re-roll on sternguard combis and special ammuniton are going to add up.
2.) Tigurius is much more of a force multiplier. His warlord trait will provide similar buffs to your 2nd turn dakka and with a 12" range it should be able to affect most of your force if deployed correctly. Besides that he can specifically prescience/perfect timing important units. Ignore all those pesky jink saves and stealth reliant units? Uh yes please. You're not going to miss many shots with him around.
3.) Flexibility. Salamanders CT limits you to flamers and meltas, while UM players can get the TL goodness applied to any of their specials and combis to make use of that plas and grav goodness.

Just my take on the situation. I'd like to hear the opposite argument for Salamanders.

Uh, Tiggy doesn't get to pick his Warlord Trait does he?

Just a thought to add....Sicarious as a second HQ, infiltrate a Tac Squad somewhere for another unit up in the enemy's face.

Or ally with RG and take Shrike for an assault squad as a counter attack option to the drop attack.

I would have thought that if you were using a drop assault army you would use any marine codex BUT the new vanilla one. The BA are, in my opinion, the best blitzkrieg army in the game, never mind all the crap said about them online. Space wolves are good CC guys for obvious reasons. DA, you run at the enemy as quickly as possible, so DP ing dreadnoughts in works well.

I can personally vouch for the BA, as the vanguard vets can still use heroic intervention and assault on the first turn, meaning if you drop pod them 1st turn you can take out a tank without it ever getting to shoot, and back them up with some drop pod dreads still on the first turn. Then deep strike assault squads, death company and sanguinary guard as your Baal preds move in for the kill. Or better yet, take off the jump packs from the assault squad and get a drop pod for free (if you take them off you get 35 points of a transport, the same price as a drop pod)

My point is that don't just go vanilla just because it's new. Remember that there are strawberry marines made exactly for the job, and the blue heaven and chocolate marines.

But if you have to go vanilla then I would say Fists all the way.

Is there anything useful in the elite slots besides sternguard, to either support a DP army or fill additional drop pods?

thetallestgiraffe wrote:

I can personally vouch for the BA, as the vanguard vets can still use heroic intervention and assault on the first turn, meaning if you drop pod them 1st turn you can take out a tank without it ever getting to shoot, and back them up with some drop pod dreads still on the first turn. Then deep strike assault squads, death company and sanguinary guard as your Baal preds move in for the kill. Or better yet, take off the jump packs from the assault squad and get a drop pod for free (if you take them off you get 35 points of a transport, the same price as a drop pod)

Whaaaaa??? Is there a different wording in the BA dex than in the new one? Also does it specifically say that it allows them to assault after disembarking from a transport? IIRC the old heroic intervention only specifically overrides the fact that you cant assault after deep striking, not the fact that you cant assault after disembarking from a transport

Whaaaaa??? Is there a different wording in the BA dex than in the new one? Also does it specifically say that it allows them to assault after disembarking from a transport? IIRC the old heroic intervention only specifically overrides the fact that you cant assault after deep striking, not the fact that you cant assault after disembarking from a transport

Oh, so sorry, I was editing it and screwed up. I edited it in with the thing about assault marines. You can't do it via drop op pod, only deep strike.
Sorry :p


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but that's still pretty good

Unless riptide. WHY MUST I BUILD ENTIRE LISTS AROUND THESE A$$HOLES??


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Razerous wrote:
Is there anything useful in the elite slots besides sternguard, to either support a DP army or fill additional drop pods?

Ironclads seem solid. I imagine they'd be best in pairs, but that could just be me. I'm a tool for redundancy

General Hobbs wrote:


Uh, Tiggy doesn't get to pick his Warlord Trait does he?

Just a thought to add....Sicarious as a second HQ, infiltrate a Tac Squad somewhere for another unit up in the enemy's face.

Or ally with RG and take Shrike for an assault squad as a counter attack option to the drop attack.

He (Tiggy) comes with a specific warlord traits that is one use allowing a unit withing 12" to re-roll failed hits.