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So now that we have seen the layout of the Ork Codex, apparently the army wide special rules (also containing the warlord traits; usually on the 1st page of the bestiarum right after the end of the fluff section) now got moved all the way back to the reference.

The armylist section no longer exists, and points costs and wargear options (with points costs) have been rolled into the bestiarum.

The Good News is this creates 10-15 more pages of space for other things to take up space (like the background section or the miniature gallery section), but it also means there is less space available for the fluff in the bestuarum/unit description section as GW still goes by the "1 page per unit" rule in the bestiarum and now has to accomodate all the wargear options and points costs as well.


However, the biggest change with the new 7th edition codexes is that ALL (and yes, I mean ALL) the artwork present in the unit description / bestiarum section is GONE and has now been replaced with more of their glossy Warhammer Visions pics. Add to this the fact that these pictures are now of a bigger size than the size of the artworks in previous codices was and you'll realize that this adversely affects your codex reading experience - you get the feeling you are looking at a fancy Vogue style miniatures catalogue instead of your army's codex.

ugh I hate the new codex layout. That immersive feeling of actually being in the 40k universe when reading through the bestiarum section of a codex and looking at the artwork is gone now, permanently replaced with big glossy gonzo style pictures the likes of which can be found in any Warhammer Visions book. I feel like I'm looking at just that - warhammer visions - instead of the art of the 40k universe. That destroys the fluff feeling and once again reduces the entire codex (essentially the spirit of an army) into nothing more than a glorified miniature catalogue with rules.

There is a reason why the older codices always had a miniatures gallery section - if GW rolls this way, whats the point of that anymore? I am sad that the remaining armies that didnt get updated in 6th (Orks, Necrons, Grey Knights, Sisters, and Dark Eldar) will never have their artwork transition to full color anymore because by the time they get their new codex, their bestiarum section is just going to be a miniatures gallery once again.

So all that artwork will be "lost" and forgotten by the time their new codexes roll in.

Well thankfully this is the last edition im taking part in so no more book updates for me.

It doesnt sound that great, I remember the art capturing my imagination far more than models ever did. Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

I'm waiting for a GW apologist to point out how silly everyone is for disliking the removal of the art and fluff while simultaneously complaining about the art books and the supplements.

Anyway, none of this is surprising. Why pay someone to hand-draw art when you can just snap some pictures of 'Eavy Metal's models (which you're already paying them to paint anyway) and photoshop some cute little background into the picture?

The reduction of fluff and new artwork has been going on for awhile. It's part of GW's "cut-costs-at-every-corner" policy and general inability to realize that the more they invest in their craft the more returns they'll get,

 Swastakowey wrote:
Well thankfully this is the last edition im taking part in so no more book updates for me.

It doesnt sound that great, I remember the art capturing my imagination far more than models ever did. Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

Have you seen the White Dwarf Weekly that had Flash Gitz or the Mek Guns?

Because it looks like that.

As for how the actual book layouts are for me?
I like the way that it's organized. It was messy at first but as I sat down and read through it a few times, it flowed a lot better. Opinions might vary though.

I miss the art, but the Ork book still has some great art in it. For the 'standard Codex' it has a page for each of the big Clans with a Kopinski style Ork in the colors of that Clan and what could be considered a 'representative unit' for that Clan. There's also in the 'Painted Miniatures' gallery names for pretty much each Ork that gets singled out in the inset bits.

In Waagh! Ghazghkull there's similar Kopinski styled art for the various Mobs that Ghazghkull has brought together. There is one piece of a Kommando clearly trying to be sneaky...while shouting his head off. The miniature gallery there doesn't really name Orks out but again it shows some impressive stuff.
The Echoes/Altar of War missions are organized in a chronological order for Ghazghkull's exploits and ends with one set on Octarius with the Orks taking the role of defender to the Tyranids being attackers(with Endless Tide in effect no less).

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Well thankfully this is the last edition im taking part in so no more book updates for me.

It doesnt sound that great, I remember the art capturing my imagination far more than models ever did. Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

Have you seen the White Dwarf Weekly that had Flash Gitz or the Mek Guns?

Because it looks like that.

Sorry man, dont buy those. But ill take a look, im sure its pictured somewhere.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:
Well thankfully this is the last edition im taking part in so no more book updates for me.

It doesnt sound that great, I remember the art capturing my imagination far more than models ever did. Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

Have you seen the White Dwarf Weekly that had Flash Gitz or the Mek Guns?

Because it looks like that.

Sorry man, dont buy those. But ill take a look, im sure its pictured somewhere.

Pulled this from the Ork rumor thread:

It's a 1:1 match for the Ork Codex, with the same fluff quote in the bottom and everything. The only real difference is that it has page numbers in parentheses for the rules that you need.

This sounds bad. This, frankly, sounds even worse than the 6th Ed "Armoury design." It should be kept the 5th Ed way, with every unit having its options lited on the page so you don't have to flip back and forth and units share costs for things when they are unequally powerful. Space Marines is ok because they pretty much have the same stats across the board (thinking Str and melee weapons such as power weapons and power fists for example.) But for the likes of Nids? Lash-whip and boneswords won't be as effective on a Tyranid Prime as it would a Carnifex, so why pay the same price?

Thanks for that!

Yea i think 5th edition was the better way of doing it. Definitely the least annoying.

Whilst I like nice artwork, I'd prefer the artwork in the fluff section leaving the rules section to be solid, condensed rules to speed up gameplay. 1/5th of that Flash Gitz page is rules if that, it's even lower rule density than the previous way. Merging the two sections was a good start at least. I tend to build armies from army builder or battlescribe but that's only because it's always been poorly laid out... I shall continue to do so I imagine.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

right this way, sir:




look how big the pictures are. look how small and cramped the unit description is. And its in italics. GW really doesnt give a flying feth about anything other than the toys they produce and want to sell.

I've got mixed opinions on it. I like that everything is finally at one end of the book now, because it was always a huge pain having to constantly flip back and forth across the modeling section of the book to get to different rules, but I also think it's kind of a pain to see a list of everything that's available to take. It's easier to quickly compare point costs for HQs, for instance, if I can instantly see 6 of them on a two-page spread, rather than needing 4-5 of those to see every option I can take.

I don't really care about the artwork vs. models, really. To be honest, I'm not buying these books for either one of those, I'm buying it for the rules contained within that allow me to play the game.

 Locclo wrote:
I've got mixed opinions on it. I like that everything is finally at one end of the book now, because it was always a huge pain having to constantly flip back and forth across the modeling section of the book to get to different rules, but I also think it's kind of a pain to see a list of everything that's available to take. It's easier to quickly compare point costs for HQs, for instance, if I can instantly see 6 of them on a two-page spread, rather than needing 4-5 of those to see every option I can take.

I don't really care about the artwork vs. models, really. To be honest, I'm not buying these books for either one of those, I'm buying it for the rules contained within that allow me to play the game.

This is why no one will ever be happy about GW's layouts....it's because people don't even know what they friggin want.

That being said I miss my artwork.

Giant catalogue pictures replacing fluff and artwork? Nope. Don't like it at all.

Orktavius wrote:

 Locclo wrote:
I've got mixed opinions on it. I like that everything is finally at one end of the book now, because it was always a huge pain having to constantly flip back and forth across the modeling section of the book to get to different rules, but I also think it's kind of a pain to see a list of everything that's available to take. It's easier to quickly compare point costs for HQs, for instance, if I can instantly see 6 of them on a two-page spread, rather than needing 4-5 of those to see every option I can take.

I don't really care about the artwork vs. models, really. To be honest, I'm not buying these books for either one of those, I'm buying it for the rules contained within that allow me to play the game.

This is why no one will ever be happy about GW's layouts....it's because people don't even know what they friggin want.

That being said I miss my artwork.

To be fair to the people complaining, GW have NEVER had a good layout. From the looks of things, it still seems there'll be a lot of flicking back and forth while trying to create an army list just like it's always been. IMO there should be a separation of fluff/picture and rules. So the fluff/pictures aren't bulking out your rules section causing you to have to flip back and forth and also don't put part of the rules in the friggen fluff/pictures section so you have to flip back and forth between the rules and fluff sections in order to get all the rules.

For the Ork codex, I've just watched the video, haven't seen it in person. From the looks of things, I like the fact they have put the rules in one place but I'm disappointed they also put in LARGE pictures and fluff in the same section.

Purely on the issue of artwork vs miniatures. Do they still have a separate gallery section where they show off the miniatures or have they eliminated that now? Either way, I liked artwork more.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Purely on the issue of artwork vs miniatures. Do they still have a separate gallery section where they show off the miniatures or have they eliminated that now? Either way, I liked artwork more.

They do still have a gallery section. There are several big 'centerfolds' throughout the book as well which are primarily models.

And yet if they made the rules/points and pictures totally seperate you'd have complaints from people who miss the artwork and people bitching how they just need the last part of the codex and shouldn't have to pay for pictures. It's a no win situation.

You'd have 1 in 10 complaining rather than 9 in 10.

The advantages of the new layout is that they save money on art and show the customer the actual models to buy for the unit. It also frees up space for more stuff.

My only issue is not all the rules are on the page. If they defined the rules on each page so you can read or reference during play and not have to flip the pages it would be better.

This new layout warranted a new sig. Seriously, model photos was the last straw. Screw this game.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Well thankfully this is the last edition im taking part in so no more book updates for me.

It doesnt sound that great, I remember the art capturing my imagination far more than models ever did. Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

You ever see the 3rd edition BRB? Holy crap. 40k these days has just absolutely lost the feel of the art in that book.

 Dakkamite wrote:
This new layout warranted a new sig. Seriously, model photos was the last straw. Screw this game.

 Swastakowey wrote:
Well thankfully this is the last edition im taking part in so no more book updates for me.

It doesnt sound that great, I remember the art capturing my imagination far more than models ever did. Is there a picture of this somewhere for me to see what it looks like?

You ever see the 3rd edition BRB? Holy crap. 40k these days has just absolutely lost the feel of the art in that book.

No but the Imperial Guard 3rd edition codex still blows my mind! I still read that book longingly haha.

Nothing comes close anymore. Maybe its nostalgia? Maybe not, but im pretty Games workshoped out now. Cant find inspiration within GW stuff anymore. Gotta look at old stuff or other sources to get any sort of excitement in the hobby.

Judging from your Ork dilemma you seem to be in a similar place.

I've not seen the ork codex and have little reason to, but I really prefer shots of models over artwork. Just a preference thing. I don't always paint the models 'by the book' but I always like having something to look at when I'm doing a model just as a guideline of what someone else did.

The artwork was always just glanced at for me. I do think its shame if they are reducing the fluff. For 50 bucks you should be getting a codex that is at least as in depth as the 2nd edition ones that used to cost 25.

I have been happy with the space marine and imperial guard codex as far as layout goes. It will be interesting to see what the blood angels codex does for 7th.

VanHallan wrote:
I've not seen the ork codex and have little reason to, but I really prefer shots of models over artwork. Just a preference thing. I don't always paint the models 'by the book' but I always like having something to look at when I'm doing a model just as a guideline of what someone else did.

The artwork was always just glanced at for me. I do think its shame if they are reducing the fluff. For 50 bucks you should be getting a codex that is at least as in depth as the 2nd edition ones that used to cost 25.

I have been happy with the space marine and imperial guard codex as far as layout goes. It will be interesting to see what the blood angels codex does for 7th.

Thing is the old codexes had art and model pictures. Now it's just one. Also model pictures are available free online...or in white dwarf... Or visions...the art was often the best part of the codexes and now it's just a catalogue. Like everything else they make these days.

Blood Angels will end up like this ork one no doubt.

The availability of (imo, better) model pics online is the main part of why i don't like them in the codices. Why pay for pages of stuff that you can get for free when you want GW to do the stuff you can't get - well thought out, balanced rules and professional artwork. They actively detract from the books since they take up so much space, making a time consuming game even more time consuming as you flick through it looking for what you need.

Orktavius wrote:
And yet if they made the rules/points and pictures totally seperate you'd have complaints from people who miss the artwork and people bitching how they just need the last part of the codex and shouldn't have to pay for pictures. It's a no win situation.

I think it's time to give the "you can't please everyone so don't try to please anyone" argument a rest. No, you can't, but you can try and please more people, try and please your existing customers and try and have your work better presented.

I also didn't really mean to say NO pics in with the rules, just not huge arse ones that take up most the page. Put the huge arse pictures in the section where you describe the fluff for the unit, where you describe the rules you can fill extra space by putting in small images, or like GW have done with some of their books, put artwork in the margins.

I'm not saying there's only 1 singular way it must be done, just GW have yet to impress me with the layout of a codex in the past 18-19 years I've been collecting. Half the reason I like program's like army builder is because GW make pen and paper list building painful. Admittedly it didn't bother me as much when I was 10 years old and spent half my free time randomly flicking through the books anyway...

As a professional illustrator, I'm not happy with the lack of art in the new Ork dex.

Any Codex that requires you to randomly flip back and forth between 3-4 sections to get everything about a single unit is bad design.

Sometimes they reproduce the text of a special rule on a unit entry, and sometimes they refer to another section, same with wargear..

There is plenty of artwork in there, just not on the bestiary pages any longer.

I'm happy with it, quicker to point up and see what all rules are now, with one location needed on top. Less flicking back and forth

I actually really like alot of the new codex, the layout and design is really nice in general.

But rolling the army list and bestiary into one is pretty **** imo. I much prefer my codex Space Marines, its just a nicer book.

Orks is missing the artwork, and descriptions, and the bestiary feels like a catalogue.

Its also annoying to have to flip back and forth to find who uses what, who can use what, what that thing does, how much it costs etc etc etc.

Makes building a list fairly annoying.

 Shandara wrote:
Any Codex that requires you to randomly flip back and forth between 3-4 sections to get everything about a single unit is bad design.

Sometimes they reproduce the text of a special rule on a unit entry, and sometimes they refer to another section, same with wargear..

The Dark Eldar codex is a nightmare for this. There are literally four wargear sections. And by the time you find the right section and the item you're looking for it says "see page 32 for rules..." because of course the rules are in the unit descriptions, not with the wargear or the points sections.

Having two separate unit description and unit points sections is horrendous, 3rd and 4th ed codices were much better. Seems like it's specifically to prevent PDF scanning or piracy, but really it's just a pita.

well, my IG codex has no art, AT ALL, by the rules pages that actually have pts values on them....

but if they did orks like they did IG, people would complain its too bland...

no matter what GW does, people will just complain, in 3 months the difference will be unoticable.