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2014/09/15 20:05:23
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Kilkrazy wrote: If games journalists are using attacks on Sarkeesian to hold up a shield of misogynism that defends against other alleged shenanigans, would it not be rather clever to stop attacking Sarkeesian, thus depriving these journalists of their shield?
This would also have the benefit of not seeming to be misogynist.
The problem with that...is that Gamers are not a hive mind.
There are genuine critics who disagree with Anita's views and "research methods" (guffaw) and try to challenge them in a respectful reasonable way (Mundane Matt, etc).
And then there are other people who genuinely are misogynists who hate women*, who send abusive messages and death threats, or people who simply aren't articulate enough to express their disagreement with her views in a reasonable way.
Guess which of the two groups Anita, Zoe Quinn and the mainstream media love to focus on, and which group they ignore?
*Misogyny gets thrown around a lot these days when it really shouldn't...You can be sexist, without being misogynist. Misogyny requires active hatred of women.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/15 20:05:46
2014/09/15 20:11:07
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
There are certain posters who will seek to provoke vitriol to get the thread closed, just like previous threads. Don't feed the trolls*, don't p*** off the mods.
(*And no, I don't mean you Peregrine).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/15 20:11:50
2014/09/16 17:26:14
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
H.B.M.C. wrote: Polygon has written what amounts to a veiled attack on the lovely Christina Sommers, almost falling over itself to attack her character via guilt-through-association with a "conservative think-tank".
This is why we hate the gaming media. Speak out against the points they're making and they don't try to rebut; they just attack you personally.
We're seeing in this thread too. On this very page in fact...
Edit: on page 13
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/17 11:14:58
2014/09/17 16:52:31
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Bromsy wrote: There is no concrete evidence that Zoe and Quinn tricked people out of money.
Thank you, that was everything I was asking for!
Thats not necessarily true.
From what I recall reading in this thread and the previous threads...
Zoe Quinn claimed that she had/was going to, donate(d) some of the proceeds of Depression Quest or w.e. she makes her money off (SIlverstring?) to a specific charity. It was then confirmed by the Charity itself that they had received no such donation from her.
Zoe Quinn apparently then retconned the name of the charity to a different one, and produced a screenshot of what she claimed was her email account with emails indicating that (by way of the subject titles) payments had been made to this new charity. As I recall the screenshot did not indicate how much these donations were - it could have been mere pennies, or it could have been hundreds of dollars.
Thats just one example off the top of my head.
To come into the tail end of a month long discussion spread across dozens of pages in 4 or more threads and cry "Wheres the evidence? I don't see it here!" is a little disingenuous.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/18 00:50:50
2014/09/18 13:23:07
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
There's no doubt violent games play a part in the deeds of some wackos, such as Elliot "killer virgin" Rodger. Rodger didn't kill because the video games made violent, but the games did help to shape his violent fantasies. They provided a framework through which his online bloodlust turned into real-world slaughter.
As to whether a video game might make you any more likely to go out and commit a rape, the research says probably not. You were most likely going to do it anyway. But what's new about GTA Online, the thing that leaves me scratching my head and thinking these people must have something a bit wrong with them, is that these dorky deviants aren't just raping computer-generated characters, as has happened in some previous fames.
Because it's an online game they're modding, they get to rape other real-life players. Some of those other players are very young: GTA is rated 18, but has hundreds of thousands of teen addicts. Listen to the videos at Kotaku and judge for yourself how old some of the victims are.
The online version of the game, which had a chaotic launch plagued by technical snafus, has all but been abandoned by its developers, who are, I am told by those in the know, concentrating their efforts on the PC version and don't seem to care what's happening on their online platform.
But something tells me Rockstar wouldn't much care even if it had the resources to clamp down on the modding craze which enables users to modify the games way outside the parameters of the original programmer's vision. After all, this is a developer which itself launches games with secret shagging levels on them - then saturates future games with jokey references to the fact - and which hired Max Clifford to make sure its games caused the most outrage possible.
It's that brazen, sociopathic, adolescent attitude from Rockstar – founded in Scotland – that most people will find grating, together with a reckless lack of care about games that depict violent, public rape in quite granular detail. Hijacked by nerd rapists, GTA Online is now not only somewhere you wouldn't allow your children but it's somewhere no normal adult would want to go either.
Personally, I don't understand grown men wasting their lives playing computer games. It seems a bit sad to me. I mean, we've all been sucked in to a few rounds of Candy Crush, but if you want to shoot a gun, why not go to a rifle range? I suspect most people who play these games have never held a firearm in real life.
What a bigoted, ignorant egit.
Grown men wasting our lives playing games?
We do it because it's fun, what more reasons do we need? If the time spent playing games entertains us, it's not wasted, no more than golfers, sports car enthusiasts, anglers, painters or people who read novels are wasting their time.
If you want to shoot a gun why not go to a rifle range?
Is this lunatic really suggesting that people should put down their controller, go out and receive training in how to use a lethal firearm? The OPPOSITE should be encouraged. I have absolutely no desire to shoot a real gun. I view a gun gun as a tool and a weapon, not a toy for my entertainment. (Not that I mean to denigrate those who enjoy shooting as a sport, I just have no desire to do it myself). A video game provides all the entertainment I need with regards to firearms . Anyway, I'd much prefer to shoot a bow than a gun, I tried archery as a kid and enjoyed it.
2014/09/18 21:17:23
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
djphranq wrote: Re: #GamerGate - I'm not totally against it... but it could be carried out a little better I think. Though some of the stuff Zoe has done has been a bit 'wacky'.
And the Understatement Of The Year Award 2014 goes to...
2014/09/18 23:34:35
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
But if it has a hidden agenda and has an underlying bias you bet I will get angry at the writer.
Wow someone took me out of context. Or you know took one bit and went with it without reading the rest of the post! Whoops!
Also thats from a locked thread. Interestingly enough XD
Well, you got the thread locked, not me, despite all the accusations that I wanted to have it closed . All those Twitter images .
Actually, I doubt that.
I think I was the one who attracted the attention of the Mods and provoked the use of the BanHammer in the last thread. I reported someone for what I thought was a rude personal attack, 5 min later the thread was locked. It may have been you, or someone else, it certainly wasn't Asherian.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/18 23:35:26
2014/09/20 12:23:09
Subject: Re:The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Slarg232 wrote: Does anyone know what happened with Mighty No. 9? Apparently everyone is in a huff about that on the Twitter Gamergate page.
Edit: Ah.
The Community Manager for Mighty No. 9 has been blocking people from the page if they support the #GamerGate movement. Apparently she is being undiscriminating and even banning Backers. So the people who payed for and made the game possible can't even give feedback for it because they have tweets about Gamergate.
Mighty No. 9?
Would this be the Indie spiritual successor to Mega Man that was funded through KickStarter or some other crowd funding site?
And would this be the notorious Community Manager who got the job causing an outcry in the Community over comments she'd made previously about her radical feminist views and desire to make changes to the game (making the protagonist female for one).
I recall hearing about this scandal about a year ago. Given that she was a known radical its hardly surprising that shes abusing her power in this way.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/21 13:34:23
2014/09/21 15:51:41
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
'Censorship isn't a government only thing. It is mostly done by governments, but also by media outlets (google in China), educational institutions (book banning), any authorities in essence.'
I don't think you understand what censorship is.
You're forgetting the most insidious form of censorship:
Self censorship.
2014/09/23 02:25:19
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Yonan wrote: Censorship indeed. Toe the party line or you're out.
Again, this is not censorship. A company declining to give him a platform to speak from is not the same thing as losing his right to speak. And freedom of speech does not mean freedom of consequences from that speech. He is still free to say whatever he likes, and nobody can stop him.
Right.. the consequences being an internet hate campaign, death threats, slander, doxxing of personal info, threats that his career will be over...
All the things that GamerGaters are accused of, have been and are being done by the radical feminist and corrupt "journalist" side too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/23 09:46:15
2014/09/23 10:40:03
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Right.. the consequences being an internet hate campaign, death threats, slander, doxxing of personal info, threats that his career will be over...
Nono, you don't understand, it's ok to do this to a man. He's not a woman, after all.
And this remark was necessary why?
Because we have multiple cases of internet hate campaigns against video game developers, one female (Zoe Quinn) and one male (Brad Wardell).
Guess which hate campaign the mainstream video gaming media doesn't give a flying feth about? (And in some cases, are even participating in said hate campaign).
2014/09/23 10:42:33
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Ashiraya wrote: I know hypocrisy is in the thread. Asherian Command, for example, committed some rather spectacular hypocrisy a few pages back. But it's not really important, and snide remarks only serve as flamebait.
Peregrine' s snide comments being the exception?
2014/09/23 10:49:43
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Right.. the consequences being an internet hate campaign, death threats, slander, doxxing of personal info, threats that his career will be over...
Nono, you don't understand, it's ok to do this to a man. He's not a woman, after all.
And this remark was necessary why?
Because we have multiple cases of internet hate campaigns against video game developers, one female (Zoe Quinn) and one male (Brad Wardell).
Guess which hate campaign the mainstream video gaming media doesn't give a flying feth about? (And in some cases, are even participating in said hate campaign).
To me, it appeared as though the remark targeted something else than mainstream video gaming media. To my knowledge, both sides in this debate agree media are doing bad things.
Oh absolutely. But the thing is, not all the GamerGate people criticising Quinn and gaming journalists participate in the hate campaigns, yet ALL opposition and criticism are being categorised and slandered as misogynists. It's ad hominem on a grand scale.
Plus there's the NotYourShield people, female gamers, LGBT people, ethnic minorities etc who are tired of being treated as a political football by gaming journalists, yet are derided and slandered and dismissed by the media.
Ashiraya wrote: I know hypocrisy is in the thread. Asherian Command, for example, committed some rather spectacular hypocrisy a few pages back. But it's not really important, and snide remarks only serve as flamebait.
Peregrine' s snide comments being the exception?
Did I mention Peregrine?
The omission is what I'm referring to...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/23 10:50:27
2014/09/23 11:22:15
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Ashiraya wrote: I disapprove of extremism in general, including extreme feminism.
I do not believe the GG crowd in general are sexists, but I believe sexists are using GG as a weapon and I consider this a problem as well.
Maybe. But the mainstream gaming media is either unable or unwilling to distinguish between legitimate criticism, and the mob of internet trolls that materialise around ALL controversial issues on the internet.
Instead of responding to actual critics like Mundane Matt, gaming "journalists" instead point to the extremely vocal minority of sexist trolls and declare "these people are abusive and sexist! Ergo everyone n that side of the debate are misogynist!"
They also rarely report on the anti GamerGate trolls, carrying out their own hate campaigns against anyone who challenges their narrative. In some cases journalists are even colluding in those hate campaigns.
Thank you for clarifying your opinions though. I can now stop perceiving you as one of the "extremists".
Automatically Appended Next Post: In other news... ISIS militants are raping children as young as nine...
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/09/23 11:43:07
2014/09/23 18:49:53
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
am seeing some rather unpleasant implications going on here, though. NotYourShield is good, but people taking the Quinn/Wardell discrepancy as an excuse to snipe at feminism is... not good. I am less concerned with what happens with the scandals and journalism as it seems most people have realised the problems, but I am concerned about the snipes.
It's because they aren't real feminists.
Feminists do not target men. Feminism wants equal rights, and equality between men and women regardless of race.
Saying women should have more benefits of men is not feminism. Which is some of the implied nature of the feminist fight in this debate. There are a ton of egalitarians in this movement and all of them are quite rational in this debate.
I have tried on numerous occasions to talk these people and rationalize and say that they do not properly fit the definition of a feminist.
But what he's saying is that the hate on Quinn/Sark is causing people to snipe on ACTUAL Feminists. And that is a problem if true (Haven't seen it but haven't been looking for it, either).
I have, and it is worrying.
Methinks Anita Sarkeesian gives Feminism a bad name...
2014/09/23 23:21:46
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Asherian Command wrote: He's targeting people who have webcams and identify as 'girl gamers' an insult to actual girls who play video games.
What the feth is that even supposed to mean? Are you drunk?
I think his point was that they emphasise their gender and make a bid deal out of it instead of focusing on the game, thereby doing a disservice to and undermining other girls who just want to get on with the game instead of playing gender politics.
2014/09/24 16:44:38
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Asherian Command wrote: That is the main reason why some characters in bioshock were cut off from the main cover, and many other characters are cut out, even if they are female its because a bunch of critics think it is dumb to have a strong female woman. And she shows some skin, like her arms and thats it. And thats considered too revealing by some critics. (I.E Feminist Critics)
What the hell are you taking about? Alice has always been a strong female character that showed the skin of her arms, and no-one ever criticized that, especially not feminist critics, as far as I know.
Of course, this is different. We are not talking just showing a bit of skin here.
In what kind of bizarro word does a feminist critic ask for the removal of a strong female character that only shows the skin of her arms?
Thats not sexism that is immaturity. Big Difference.
I concede its not in his messages, but he did post the image and it did say that. and I was confirming that idea. IT doesn't exist in the industry but it does exist in the community though it is not as common as people like to think.
Anyway we need more sources to talk about the gamer gate issue.
Here we go find some from searching the #gamergate hashtag on twitter.
CorporateLogo wrote: If games are an art form, then they need to open themselves up to the kind of critical appraisal that movies, television, music, et al are subject to if they wish to be taken seriously as an art form. In my experience though, whenever someone attempts this kind of appraisal on games, such as the portrayal of women, it is immediately shouted down with cries of "lt's just video games man/No politics in my video games/and so on!"
Maybe Roger Ebert was right about video games after all.
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I've never thought of games as an art form nor do I think they need to be considered one. Calling it an art form just seems so pretentious
It depends on the game. Some definitely are art, with deeper themes meanings and philosophical messages(off the top of my head and one that I've played recently is Walking Dead Season 2 - though there are probably better examples), others like Call of Duty are just meant to be entertainment.
Which is exactly the same as books, movies and television. For every Schindlers List, or Anne Frank's Diary, you have a Transformers movie or an Expendables movie.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/25 12:55:38
2014/09/25 17:26:38
Subject: The Gamergate, Scandal, Conspiracy, and Journalism Corruption
Jehan-reznor wrote: On the art discussion, Games, Movies, Books and Music are not Art. They are commercial products.
Sorry, for that hyperbole what i mean is they can be art, some games are artfully made. To say that something is art because it took lots of time and money to make something makes 80 percent of the things in the world art.
But then again Art is a totally subjective
I agree with the video, they totally lost my respect as a "consumer" of their "news" sites. But anyone with some brain-cells could see the over positive reviews of games of the last 25 years or more, i go to reviews of games to (gamer) people i know and look at these sites just for info on new games.
the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power.
I don't see why that doesn't apply to certain games and movies, especially ones with a strong emotional message. If it takes creativity and imagination to make, then it's art. If it's unoriginal and didn't take much creativity and imagination to make and the creator didn't really have any particular theme or message in mind , then sure you can say that it's not really art.
Of course, not ALL games are art.
And do you really think that music like Beethoven or Mozart is not art?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/26 11:42:51
. All those Twitter images 
