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More Reasonable Prices:
GW should lower the insane prices of their figures

Better Authors:
GW should put a stop to the Matthew Wards they have employed and hire authors that are capable of writing better fluff, reasonable crunch and superior overall rules

New Modelling Process:
GW should stop selling Finecast and Metal models and switch all of their models to a material that produces finer detailed models that are easier to work with.

More Attention To Other Games:
GW should pay more attention to Warhammer FB and their other games instead of just focusing almost exclusively on 40k

End Impulse Buys:
GW should stop focusing on "special" and "limited" editions of their products as well as "benefits" from ore-ordering or buying early and focus more on the quality of their products.

More Friendly To Independent Retailers:
GW should end their oppressive policies against independent retailers and allow them to do business in peace.

Everything.

I think they are all important to a greater or lesser degree and in varying combinations but for me, the over-riding factor is always price. Simply put, I would buy GW again and buy more of it were it cheaper and I don't think I am alone in that.

Why no "engage with their customers" option? Anyway, that's my "Other".

For me, it's three things:

- Price

- Rules/balance/scale/playtesting (or lack thereof)

- Customer involvement. GW living in their bubble, doing no market research, having virtually no contact with their customers, and making statements like 'For our fans, the most important part of the Hobby is buying models' is not good PR. Unfortunately, they'd have to leave their bubble to realise that...

All the above

Other. I think the authors are doing a fine job, but cogent, relevant, and timely FAQs are what I think the game needs most.

Pricing of models

Rules and FAQs - sort of the basics, update all Codex's and FAQ stuff properly.

Stop the whole "lets release yet more Marines in the self fulfilling prophecy that we make mostly Marines so we sell mostly Marines so we should make mostly Marines...." (*)

(*)(I have three large different Marine Chapter forces and bits and pieces of others so its not that I am anti -Marines)

Disclaimer: I'm thinking of 40k here. I've not played Fantasy for a long time, and I'd rather GW continue to stay away from Necromunda, etc, as the community takes better care of them than GW.
Other. It's not a case of getting better authors for the rules - there also has to be a willingness to let those authors completely redesign the core rules. Figure out what scale they want, use detailed rules for the important bits and abstractions for the minor bits. At the moment they're interested in whether that infantry model's gun is an autogun or a lasgun, as well as the exact position of those models (for blast, LOS, etc), yet they also have very abstract rules for entire units when going through the walls of a ruin or being wiped out when Deep Striking. There are rules for small vehicles losing a single storm bolter or being shaken by incoming fire... yet no similar rules for affecting giant titans - a titan's secondary weapon system getting disabled is just too much to keep track of, yet the temporary scrambling of Rhino #9's steering system is worthy of notice.

Prices, better rules (and even the fluff has taken a bit of turn for the worse), and communicate.

I'm actually fine with the prices. Or, actually, would have been fine with them if the product hadn't been so crap.

The models are great, but beyond that it's a bit murkier.

The fluff used to be great. Sure, it wasn't competing for any literary awards, but it was good enough to sit down with a novel and immerse yourself in the 41st millennium for a couple of hours, and shed a light on a very interesting and broad universe. Lately, though, BL hasn't put out much of anything that I find even remotely enjoyable. The Heresy novels, which I initially loved, have fallen into the American sit-com trap where they just keep droning on forever and ever and ever. Also, the codex fluff has gone from being 'not my favourite part of the fluff' to something I actively hate.

And then there are the rules. They don't work for anything. Competitive play? Lol. At least there are independent rules coming out to make things fun. Narrative play? "Yeah, this is my warlord, Pete, he's a city fighter... Oh, actually, he likes to strike at night. And my Librarian will use the Warp to instill fear and terror into the hearts of the heretics! Nope, turns out he can become invisible instead! Lulzies!" And casual play? Yeah, right. As long as the army you think is awesome isn't either complete garbage or unbelievably broken. You like giant robots? Tough luck, everyone hates you now.

 Thud wrote:
I'm actually fine with the prices. Or, actually, would have been fine with them if the product hadn't been so crap.

The models are great, but beyond that it's a bit murkier.

The fluff used to be great. Sure, it wasn't competing for any literary awards, but it was good enough to sit down with a novel and immerse yourself in the 41st millennium for a couple of hours, and shed a light on a very interesting and broad universe. Lately, though, BL hasn't put out much of anything that I find even remotely enjoyable. The Heresy novels, which I initially loved, have fallen into the American sit-com trap where they just keep droning on forever and ever and ever. Also, the codex fluff has gone from being 'not my favourite part of the fluff' to something I actively hate.

And then there are the rules. They don't work for anything. Competitive play? Lol. At least there are independent rules coming out to make things fun. Narrative play? "Yeah, this is my warlord, Pete, he's a city fighter... Oh, actually, he likes to strike at night. And my Librarian will use the Warp to instill fear and terror into the hearts of the heretics! Nope, turns out he can become invisible instead! Lulzies!" And casual play? Yeah, right. As long as the army you think is awesome isn't either complete garbage or unbelievably broken. You like giant robots? Tough luck, everyone hates you now.

For me it's the rules more than the price. The price is bad but it's not quite awful, but the poor rules just make it even worse. I would pay the price if the rules/game was good.

Yeah, definitely. As a hobby I don't find the price level very disheartening. Except for 2014, where I've hardly bought anything, I'm usually spending about £800 a year (including about £300 from my girlfriend as birthday presents) and I buy anything I want at any time. I wouldn't be upset if they lowered their prices, but it's not something I go around hoping for either.

I see too many people who can't afford to play the game these days. We've gone from a situation where everyone had multiple armies to one where people can barely afford 1500 points.

The price escalation has got to stop.

Looking strictly at the price of models, GW models do not cost more than comparable competitors models. Of course, hero models are expensive, whether you want Badger or Tigurius. Modellīng is not cheap.

Better authors are always welcome. There is always room for improvement!

I think the state of GW modeling is great, and releases each year are better and better. Almost everything is plastic now.

I don't think think the 'other games' is fair, as there are tons of WHFB releases. This year, I've bought Morghast (2), Nagase, Glotkin, and Treeman (2). I didn't buy Blightkings, the dwarf releases. And there were lots of fluff things.

I don't think there is anything wrong with impulse buys -- there have really only been 3 this year -- space hulk, stormclaw, and deathstorm. All the other things were either minor items like dice or deluxe versions of books that you could buy cheaper standard versions of any time. The 3 box sets were awesome value by anyone's standards.

I think treating FLGS better would definitely help them.

Talys wrote:
Looking strictly at the price of models, GW models do not cost more than comparable competitors models.

That seems debatable.

Especially when you consider the scale of 40k - i.e. the number of models required.

Also, you also have to look at the cost of rules - which competing companies are selling codices for £30 and DLC for a further £30?

I'm surprised so many people seem to be going for price over better authors (which I assume means a better ruleset?)

The topic is "what is most important for GW" not "what would you like" and there is no doubt that people will pay high prices for a product they perceive as being of high quality.

If 40K became a game that many people were excited to play once more, then I suspect almost every other objection about GW, their models, their prices or any other aspect would immediately fade into the background.

 vipoid wrote:
having virtually no contact with their customers

GW actually has very good customer care, but I guess you´re talking about something else.

I find saying these days only a few people can afford even a 1500 point army quite an overstatement. People buy phones that cost more than a WH40K army. I´d say it´s a matter of if you´re willing to spend for most, not that they can´t afford it, as so many commonplace things cost so much more.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm surprised so many people seem to be going for price over better authors (which I assume means a better ruleset?)

Perhaps because great rules cease to matter if you can't afford to buy them.

 RunicFIN wrote:

GW actually has very good customer care, but I guess you´re talking about something else.

I'm not talking about customer service, if that's what you mean.

I'm talking about things like forums and market research.

 vipoid wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm surprised so many people seem to be going for price over better authors (which I assume means a better ruleset?)

Perhaps because great rules cease to matter if you can't afford to buy them.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree. GW prices are high, but what they charge for a really significant percentage of their range isn't an intrinsically high amount of money for many people.

I'll bang the same drum as I always do, it isn't a question of price, it is a question of value - GW couldn't cut prices without a guarantee of an equal upswing in sales volume, and that would be a huge gamble, one that could potentially end the company altogether.

They can, relatively easily if they put their minds to it, improve the value on offer to the customer. They could increase the number of sprues in the box for a relatively small increase in cost to them, but that carries a similar risk to a price cut - offer a box of 10 models, do enough people buy that box that wouldn't have bought the same box with 5 models to offset those who would have bought 2 boxes of 5 who no longer need to?

Make the game more fun to play, however, get as many of the people on here regularly decrying all the issues to revise their opinion and get excited to play again, and, like I said, the concerns start to fade. Wargamers aren't just customers they are also fans, if you can get them excited about your product then rationale and logic cease to apply WRT matters of price etc, at least to some degree.

Simultaneously though, I will concede that GW suffer with too high a barrier to entry, DV does represent decent value, but it is too limited IMO, but with the recent campaign boxes etc (they've all contained the core rules too so far, so while they're not officially starters, they make good substitutes) I think we're seeing an attempt to address that.

Personally, I'd do some sort of Mini Rulebook, Codex, HQ, 2x Troops + 1 Other bundle for a set (discounted) price, where the customer can choose what they like, as long as it is from the same faction. Not only a good starter option that gets a newbie a playable army from the get go, but it would also be appealing for existing customers looking to start a new force or add an ally detachment.

Right now, if I wanted to start Tau I can buy the battle force, which may or may not contain models I'm interested in, or buy everything without any discount. If I want to start Space Wolves, I've possibly missed my chance. A long term, flexible, starter deal solves these issues.

If you set this against a background of an improved game, where there aren't such objectively good or bad choices, we won't see the issue where someone new to the game makes choices based on something other than what is good in game get repeatedly stuffed, lose heart and quit.

None of this requires a huge investment from GW, just a change of approach.

Selected other.

I think GW needs to make the integrity of the game itself a priority. Right now they focus on selling miniatures and monetizing everything with supplements and dataslates creating an unholy mess of rules in the process. It's obvious that they don't care that the game is an almost unplayable mess. To them it's just an excuse to sell more models. I think they can turn things around by refocusing their efforts on making the game good.

 Azreal13 wrote:

I'll bang the same drum as I always do, it isn't a question of price, it is a question of value - GW couldn't cut prices without a guarantee of an equal upswing in sales volume, and that would be a huge gamble, one that could potentially end the company altogether.

Thing is, they've already taken a massive gamble - in that they're relying on die-hard fans to keep propping them up, by accepting their increasingly ridiculous costs.

 Azreal13 wrote:

They can, relatively easily if they put their minds to it, improve the value on offer to the customer. They could increase the number of sprues in the box for a relatively small increase in cost to them, but that carries a similar risk to a price cut - offer a box of 10 models, do enough people buy that box that wouldn't have bought the same box with 5 models to offset those who would have bought 2 boxes of 5 who no longer need to?

But, this is the thing, isn't it? It's not about value, so much as 'what can we get away with?'

 Azreal13 wrote:

Simultaneously though, I will concede that GW suffer with too high a barrier to entry, DV does represent decent value, but it is too limited IMO, but with the recent campaign boxes etc (they've all contained the core rules too so far, so while they're not officially starters, they make good substitutes) I think we're seeing an attempt to address that.

Personally, I'd do some sort of Mini Rulebook, Codex, HQ, 2x Troops + 1 Other bundle for a set (discounted) price, where the customer can choose what they like, as long as it is from the same faction. Not only a good starter option that gets a newbie a playable army from the get go, but it would also be appealing for existing customers looking to start a new force or add an ally detachment.

Right now, if I wanted to start Tau I can buy the battle force, which may or may not contain models I'm interested in, or buy everything without any discount. If I want to start Space Wolves, I've possibly missed my chance. A long term, flexible, starter deal solves these issues.

I agree about the barrier to entry, but it goes beyond that. A lot of GW models just aren't worth what they charge.

£22.50 for a Chimera? It's a plastic box, get over yourselves.

£20.50 for 5 Necron Immortals? They're slightly bigger warriors, and neither is overflowing with detail. Pricing them at £4 per model is just stupid.

£18.00 for 10 guardsmen with faces like constipated-potatoes, and which doesn't include a single plasmagun or meltagun. What am I paying for here? Because, it's certainly not quality.

See, the real problem is that customers end up feeling like they're being ripped off in every area. Virtually every model is overpriced, every single codex costs about twice as much is it's worth - more in the case of the DLC supplements - and even their paints are badly overpriced. If the rules were free, then paying too much for models would be a lot easier to swallow. Or, if the models were half their current cost, people might be more tolerant of overpriced rulebooks.


I do agree, btw, about rules being a massive issue. I just think their prices are very important too (and, as you say, the perceived value).

 vipoid wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

I'll bang the same drum as I always do, it isn't a question of price, it is a question of value - GW couldn't cut prices without a guarantee of an equal upswing in sales volume, and that would be a huge gamble, one that could potentially end the company altogether.

Thing is, they've already taken a massive gamble - in that they're relying on die-hard fans to keep propping them up, by accepting their increasingly ridiculous costs.

That's not a gamble, gamble implies making a conscious choice and deciding the risk is worth the potential reward. I'd suggest what they've done this far is simply paint themselves into a corner with little or no long term plan.

 Azreal13 wrote:

They can, relatively easily if they put their minds to it, improve the value on offer to the customer. They could increase the number of sprues in the box for a relatively small increase in cost to them, but that carries a similar risk to a price cut - offer a box of 10 models, do enough people buy that box that wouldn't have bought the same box with 5 models to offset those who would have bought 2 boxes of 5 who no longer need to?

But, this is the thing, isn't it? It's not about value, so much as 'what can we get away with?'

Not sure what you mean? We're talking about things that they can do to improve, not things they do already.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Simultaneously though, I will concede that GW suffer with too high a barrier to entry, DV does represent decent value, but it is too limited IMO, but with the recent campaign boxes etc (they've all contained the core rules too so far, so while they're not officially starters, they make good substitutes) I think we're seeing an attempt to address that.

Personally, I'd do some sort of Mini Rulebook, Codex, HQ, 2x Troops + 1 Other bundle for a set (discounted) price, where the customer can choose what they like, as long as it is from the same faction. Not only a good starter option that gets a newbie a playable army from the get go, but it would also be appealing for existing customers looking to start a new force or add an ally detachment.

Right now, if I wanted to start Tau I can buy the battle force, which may or may not contain models I'm interested in, or buy everything without any discount. If I want to start Space Wolves, I've possibly missed my chance. A long term, flexible, starter deal solves these issues.

I agree about the barrier to entry, but it goes beyond that. A lot of GW models just aren't worth what they charge.

£22.50 for a Chimera? It's a plastic box, get over yourselves.

£20.50 for 5 Necron Immortals? They're slightly bigger warriors, and neither is overflowing with detail. Pricing them at £4 per model is just stupid.

£18.00 for 10 guardsmen with faces like constipated-potatoes, and which doesn't include a single plasmagun or meltagun. What am I paying for here? Because, it's certainly not quality.

See, the real problem is that customers end up feeling like they're being ripped off in every area. Virtually every model is overpriced, every single codex costs about twice as much is it's worth - more in the case of the DLC supplements - and even their paints are badly overpriced. If the rules were free, then paying too much for models would be a lot easier to swallow. Or, if the models were half their current cost, people might be more tolerant of overpriced rulebooks.


I do agree, btw, about rules being a massive issue. I just think their prices are very important too (and, as you say, the perceived value).

Do you know another way of expressing all that? Poor value!

Better Authors:
GW should put a stop to the Matthew Wards they have employed and hire authors that are capable of writing better fluff, reasonable crunch and superior overall rules

The Matt Ward hate is rather vastly overblown. His crunch tends to be really good. His fluff isn't bad, it just needs a slight bit of editing. That is, the Blood Tide thing, for example, could have been perfect for both factions involved with the addition of, like, 3 sentences.

Pretty much all of GWs problems stem from them having their arrogant heads stuffed up their ass.

They don't see the correlation between rules and sales and how the competitive scene can actually drive those sales. They think they just made a cool model and neat fluff and that's why suddenly belakor started selling like crazy. They have fully admitted they do not do market research. All GW does when faced with a problem is raise prices.

So really what GW needs to do is actually listen to people, or at the bare minimum hire people that actually know how most people feel about the current state of affairs. Cause right now, they release models that no one wants because its out performed by other things in the same slot, or its just a tax on good units.

Really I feel that GW turning its back on competitive gamers was a big mistake.

As someone who models a lot, I don't know how anyone can really complain about the cost of GW models as compared to similar quality competitor models in the SciFi genre.

I actually think a lot of vehicles like Raiders -- which have 100+ pieces in the kit -- are really cheap. If you think a chimera or LRMBT is too body or boring, well those are supposed to look like human tanks futurized. There are a mountain of Xenos vehicles that are very unique.

I think that the price of tactical Marines and troops are really cheap. Sure, Immortals are a little pricey, but Warriors are a steal. The thing is, they will sell more troops, so they are sold at a better price. Conversely, independent characters are pricey, because the sales volume will be low.

I think the price of terrain is pretty good, and it matches the 40k or WHFB theme very well. There are some third party products that are really good to supplement, too.

Straight into better rules and fluff.

I can afford the game at these prices.

Fine cast doesn't bother me as much.

FLGs are gone in my area

The only other thing i would like is attention back into necromunda and mordhime line.


Also sisters GW seems to have some kinda no girls allowed unless they are knife ears complex.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Pretty much all of GWs problems stem from them having their arrogant heads stuffed up their ass.

They don't see the correlation between rules and sales and how the competitive scene can actually drive those sales. They think they just made a cool model and neat fluff and that's why suddenly belakor started selling like crazy. They have fully admitted they do not do market research. All GW does when faced with a problem is raise prices.

So really what GW needs to do is actually listen to people, or at the bare minimum hire people that actually know how most people feel about the current state of affairs. Cause right now, they release models that no one wants because its out performed by other things in the same slot, or its just a tax on good units.

Really I feel that GW turning its back on competitive gamers was a big mistake.

I can't think of one version of 40k that was an ideal competition game -- but every version has been heavily tourneyed. I'm not sure that it's GW turning ita back on competitive types ad never really being there in the first place. It has always been a world where the company makes beat models to which they bolt on rules.

Can we say, Lords of War? I mean, from a balance perspective, they are terrible for the fame and break way more than they fix. But the coolness factor is way, way up tjere


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
Straight into better rules and fluff.

I can afford the game at these prices.

Fine cast doesn't bother me as much.

FLGs are gone in my area

The only other thing i would like is attention back into necromunda and mordhime line.


Also sisters GW seems to have some kinda no girls allowed unless they are knife ears complex.

There is a whole faction with only women Hopefully, next year they get some love.

Talys wrote:
As someone who models a lot, I don't know how anyone can really complain about the cost of GW models as compared to similar quality competitor models in the SciFi genre.

I actually think a lot of vehicles like Raiders -- which have 100+ pieces in the kit -- are really cheap. If you think a chimera or LRMBT is too body or boring, well those are supposed to look like human tanks futurized. There are a mountain of Xenos vehicles that are very unique.

I think that the price of tactical Marines and troops are really cheap. Sure, Immortals are a little pricey, but Warriors are a steal. The thing is, they will sell more troops, so they are sold at a better price. Conversely, independent characters are pricey, because the sales volume will be low.

I think the price of terrain is pretty good, and it matches the 40k or WHFB theme very well. There are some third party products that are really good to supplement, too.

I still maintain that rules quality is the priority to make a lot of issues go away, but the thing is, if you only look inside wargaming, the difference between GW and the other players (even the fairly substantial ones like Mantic and PP) you're not comparing apples to oranges, but maybe oranges to tangerines?

There's plenty of other companies making kits which utterly trounce GW in terms of parts numbers, detail and price, but they're chiefly in the scale modelling sphere, so tend to avoid direct comparison.

I agree that some of the kits from GW don't represent bad value, the core units and transports have never struck me as being quite so egregious as the likes of the Imperial Knight or the clam pack characters, but when you have a small operation like the likes of the Perrys undercutting you, significantly, and matching you on quality, as an encumbent and the dominant player in the market segment, that's plain embarrassing.

I wouldn't blink an eye at the prices if the rules were better. Most of GWs big competitors charge as much if not more per model for lower quality models and nobody complains about the prices. Why? Because the companies make tight rule sets that appeal to both hard core tournament players and people just looking to push cool models around and throw dice. When you have balanced rules, those 2 groups of people can play against each other without one or both of them wasting 2 hours of their life for a horrible experience. This is my cheap hobby (I also build guns and race cars), but I still want to feel like I'm getting some kind of value for my money and also like the company I'm giving thousands of dollars to cares about my experience after they have my money. I know plenty of other people in the same position as me. We have plenty of disposable income to start as many armies as we want, but we won't do that unless GW starts putting out better rules. I have lots of cool ideas for armies but right now I just play serpent spam and drop pod melta spam with allied grav cents because my other ideas wouldn't be viable in 7th.