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So Im reading over the new BA codex as I do with all the releases and I just don't see the new hotness. Furious charge? That's it?

I must be missing something. Can someone provide an example of some Alpha units/builds/hinkiness? I hate to ask like this but Im finding the Codex uninspiring.

EW Dante is pretty sweet. HF on tacs and tri melta on AM.

That is about it for me. Overall the book is good though. I think there is decent internal balance with few crap units and fewer must take units.

Edit: the return of old school FC with the codex detachment is also very nice.

Such a poor codex. GD forgot the hotness or something went wrong... who can say?

The Deer Hunter wrote:
Such a poor codex. GD forgot the hotness or something went wrong... who can say?

Welcome to 7th.

Access to HFs is pretty cool I guess.

Librarian Dreadnought?

Are you guys kidding? Have you sat down and actually compared it to the old dex? It's leagues better!
Have you looked at any dex released in the past year by GW? All of them are middle of the road codexes in power scale, with very small opportunities for mono builds happening and death stars appearing. That is what GW seem to be aiming for now.
It is one of the best internally balanced codexes ive seen.
So it's not Eldar, Tau, Crons or Deamons? Wow - must be a bad codex then.

Jump pack death company are no longer priced ridiculously high, so they're now a pretty sweet choice.

Dante is now a boss worthy of his fluff.

Astorath is pretty much the same for a huge point reduction.

Double specials in 5 man asm teams.

Heavy flamer tacticals.

FA pods in case you wanted to throw scouts or terminators in one.

Can leave fast engine off of whirlwinds.

Excellent trait for the detachment. Going from i4 to i5 in most games is big.

Sanguinary guard are usable. Every once in a while you run into an opponent that just brough enough ap2 to kill a few trouble guys or vehicles, and the SG just run over them.

Arty armor on captains. Plus a couple neat relics.

That's all from before exterminatus. Inside that supp and wd47 you've got access to first turn assaults, first turn deep strikes, death company with pseudo rampage, jumper squads with a landing impact, a giant "objective secured on everyone except vehicles" formation...also with a big enough point game you can do a massive no scatter turn 1 deep strike.

You can also make a BA version deathwing.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Are you guys kidding? Have you sat down and actually compared it to the old dex? It's leagues better!
Have you looked at any dex released in the past year by GW? All of them are middle of the road codexes in power scale, with very small opportunities for mono builds happening and death stars appearing. That is what GW seem to be aiming for now.
It is one of the best internally balanced codexes ive seen.
So it's not Eldar, Tau, Crons or Deamons? Wow - must be a bad codex then.

Because clearly IKs is a balanced codex? SWs clearly don't have a Thundercav power build?

Someone said it was a bad codex? I'm literally asking what sets the codex apart. Does it do anything better, drop pod assault, bikes, etc. ? If you have opinions share them.

Step away from the edge.

Step away from the edge? Eh? What you on?

So the 1 and only deathstar from all the codexes in the past year (TWC) and it means you can't see how much closer all the codexes are getting in terms of power now?

I will repeat a lot of what niv mizzet says. So I'll add maths in for you.

Old DC with jp were 52% more than what they cost now.
SG were 21% more than what they cost now.
Scouts were 36% more than what they cost now.

Check the new formations. They are amazing. 400pts of free wargear? Check! Turn1 charge? Check! 5th ed FC? Check!

A 23pt model with 5 st5 attacks, a 12" move, fearless and 3+/5+++.
A terminator who exchanges their pf and 5++ for a jp and mc powerweapon and 7pts..
Pods containing 3 melta guns for 115pts.
An absolutely crazy EW combat monster in Dante.
I could go on.

No we don't have wave serpents or wraithknights. No we don't have an army which can buy wargear to invalidate most of the games rules. No we don't have shrouded FMCs or 2++ rerollable units. No we don't have weapons which hit more than they shoot or a chariot which is nigh on indestructable.
I'll tell you what we do have though - a well balanced codex that is a huge upgrade on the previous one.

Any unit, big, small, Terminator, Bike squadron, can have Feel No Pain (so suck it Plague Marines). Entire sections of the army offer reduced scatter, no scatter, formations can give 400+pts of free weapons or Turn 1 flyers. Inititiative 5 across the board with a good amount of models having Rage, Assault Drop Pods being the new, improved and cheaper version of suicide Sternguard squads with Combi meltas, fast everything with wheels and enough Jump Packs and other mobility that the entire army, every last model, can be in the enemy deployment Turn 2.

It's a hard hitting codex meant to go toe to toe with any unit in the game. Blood Angels have an answer to everything and honestly, building a list and browsing other lists has been fun. Things can be so incredibly different between players depending on their meta and personal strengths that it's an army that isn't spamming units. its actually fun to make an army again. That makes for a good codex and supplements, regardless of how it compares to other codices.

I'm literally asking what sets the codex apart.

--They are the only army in 40k now that can deepstrike and then assault (via formation in WD47)
--They have a formation that gives 300+ points of upgrades for free (1 sternguard all with free combis and 2 vanguard all with free powerweapons)
--They have the best jump pack units in the game (DC and Sang Guard plus the afore mentioned formation that gives free powerweapons to vanguard)
--DC plus Astorath is a lawnmower unit
--Dante is all around awesome and one of the better characters in the game -- boosts unit he is in, the army and is deadly in combat
--They have ICs that can provide feel no pain to allies (so a good option for blob guard)
--They make a solid drop pod army (assault marines can take melta, tacs can take heavy flamer, character from deathstorm manipulates reserves, support from jump pack units gives them much needed post drop mobility, drop pods from FA means they can ally with centurions well)

Probably more, that's just off top of my head.

niv-mizzet wrote:Jump pack death company are no longer priced ridiculously high, so they're now a pretty sweet choice.

Dante is now a boss worthy of his fluff.

Astorath is pretty much the same for a huge point reduction.

Double specials in 5 man asm teams.

Heavy flamer tacticals.

FA pods in case you wanted to throw scouts or terminators in one.

Can leave fast engine off of whirlwinds.

Excellent trait for the detachment. Going from i4 to i5 in most games is big.

Sanguinary guard are usable. Every once in a while you run into an opponent that just brough enough ap2 to kill a few trouble guys or vehicles, and the SG just run over them.

Arty armor on captains. Plus a couple neat relics.

That's all from before exterminatus. Inside that supp and wd47 you've got access to first turn assaults, first turn deep strikes, death company with pseudo rampage, jumper squads with a landing impact, a giant "objective secured on everyone except vehicles" formation...also with a big enough point game you can do a massive no scatter turn 1 deep strike.

You can also make a BA version deathwing.

SharkoutofWata wrote:Any unit, big, small, Terminator, Bike squadron, can have Feel No Pain (so suck it Plague Marines). Entire sections of the army offer reduced scatter, no scatter, formations can give 400+pts of free weapons or Turn 1 flyers. Inititiative 5 across the board with a good amount of models having Rage, Assault Drop Pods being the new, improved and cheaper version of suicide Sternguard squads with Combi meltas, fast everything with wheels and enough Jump Packs and other mobility that the entire army, every last model, can be in the enemy deployment Turn 2.

It's a hard hitting codex meant to go toe to toe with any unit in the game. Blood Angels have an answer to everything and honestly, building a list and browsing other lists has been fun. Things can be so incredibly different between players depending on their meta and personal strengths that it's an army that isn't spamming units. its actually fun to make an army again. That makes for a good codex and supplements, regardless of how it compares to other codices.

winterman wrote:

I'm literally asking what sets the codex apart.

--They are the only army in 40k now that can deepstrike and then assault (via formation in WD47)
--They have a formation that gives 300+ points of upgrades for free (1 sternguard all with free combis and 2 vanguard all with free powerweapons)
--They have the best jump pack units in the game (DC and Sang Guard plus the afore mentioned formation that gives free powerweapons to vanguard)
--DC plus Astorath is a lawnmower unit
--Dante is all around awesome and one of the better characters in the game -- boosts unit he is in, the army and is deadly in combat
--They have ICs that can provide feel no pain to allies (so a good option for blob guard)
--They make a solid drop pod army (assault marines can take melta, tacs can take heavy flamer, character from deathstorm manipulates reserves, support from jump pack units gives them much needed post drop mobility, drop pods from FA means they can ally with centurions well)

Probably more, that's just off top of my head.

All sounds solid. Thanks for the replies. Seems the strengths lay in formations, disappointing but workable.

BAs are my first love as they were my first army during 2nd edition. DC had 2 wounds, epic. O well.

You're welcome.

ARCHANGELS SANGUINE WING... *sizzle

Fast tri-las preds.

 Byte wrote:
So Im reading over the new BA codex as I do with all the releases and I just don't see the new hotness. Furious charge? That's it?

I must be missing something. Can someone provide an example of some Alpha units/builds/hinkiness? I hate to ask like this but Im finding the Codex uninspiring.

1) we have dante, str 6, I6/7, ap2, EW, 4wounds. AND fear bubble.
2)10-30 points reduction across the board for most generic marine units
3) our tactical squads can take HEAVY FLAMERS! THAT ARE ASSAULT! we have wargear that works with our "chapter tactic"
4) Corbulo got a generic buff, he can't tank like he used to, but now gives +1 WS and +I in a 6in bubble, (which stakes with baal strike force +1I on the charge)
5) our ASM (with dante) DS 1d6, and can bring in 3 melta shots at 115, or 4 melta shots at 135
6) Death company got a huge boost, 23pts for them is nice. you aren't even paying for the option to hide fists or hammers in the unit.
7) generic captains and librarians got a HUGE point reduction, and several really nice options
8) cheap and efficient wargear
9) A book with SEVERAL different ways to play the army, each one almost as good as the last.
10)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterman wrote:

I'm literally asking what sets the codex apart.

--They are the only army in 40k now that can deepstrike and then assault (via formation in WD47)
--They have a formation that gives 300+ points of upgrades for free (1 sternguard all with free combis and 2 vanguard all with free powerweapons)
--They have the best jump pack units in the game (DC and Sang Guard plus the afore mentioned formation that gives free powerweapons to vanguard)
--DC plus Astorath is a lawnmower unit
--Dante is all around awesome and one of the better characters in the game -- boosts unit he is in, the army and is deadly in combat
--They have ICs that can provide feel no pain to allies (so a good option for blob guard)
--They make a solid drop pod army (assault marines can take melta, tacs can take heavy flamer, character from deathstorm manipulates reserves, support from jump pack units gives them much needed post drop mobility, drop pods from FA means they can ally with centurions well)

Probably more, that's just off top of my head.

where can I find the formation for the free gear?
Dante- very few special characters can take him in a challenge

 raiden wrote:

 Byte wrote:
So Im reading over the new BA codex as I do with all the releases and I just don't see the new hotness. Furious charge? That's it?

I must be missing something. Can someone provide an example of some Alpha units/builds/hinkiness? I hate to ask like this but Im finding the Codex uninspiring.

1) we have dante, str 6, I6/7, ap2, EW, 4wounds. AND fear bubble.
2)10-30 points reduction across the board for most generic marine units
3) our tactical squads can take HEAVY FLAMERS! THAT ARE ASSAULT! we have wargear that works with our "chapter tactic"
4) Corbulo got a generic buff, he can't tank like he used to, but now gives +1 WS and +I in a 6in bubble, (which stakes with baal strike force +1I on the charge)
5) our ASM (with dante) DS 1d6, and can bring in 3 melta shots at 115, or 4 melta shots at 135
6) Death company got a huge boost, 23pts for them is nice. you aren't even paying for the option to hide fists or hammers in the unit.
7) generic captains and librarians got a HUGE point reduction, and several really nice options
8) cheap and efficient wargear
9) A book with SEVERAL different ways to play the army, each one almost as good as the last.
10)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 winterman wrote:

I'm literally asking what sets the codex apart.

--They are the only army in 40k now that can deepstrike and then assault (via formation in WD47)
--They have a formation that gives 300+ points of upgrades for free (1 sternguard all with free combis and 2 vanguard all with free powerweapons)
--They have the best jump pack units in the game (DC and Sang Guard plus the afore mentioned formation that gives free powerweapons to vanguard)
--DC plus Astorath is a lawnmower unit
--Dante is all around awesome and one of the better characters in the game -- boosts unit he is in, the army and is deadly in combat
--They have ICs that can provide feel no pain to allies (so a good option for blob guard)
--They make a solid drop pod army (assault marines can take melta, tacs can take heavy flamer, character from deathstorm manipulates reserves, support from jump pack units gives them much needed post drop mobility, drop pods from FA means they can ally with centurions well)

Probably more, that's just off top of my head.

where can I find the formation or the free gear?
Dante- very few special characters can take him in a challenge

Sounds like your a happy codex owner!

Many folk argue that this isn't the way to go, but Jump Pack Death Company with Bolters have me pretty excited. They're pretty much one of the only units in the game that can move 12", shoot rapid fire shots, and then assault like they've got a pair. The FnP is just icing on an already amazing cake.

 Voidwraith wrote:
Many folk argue that this isn't the way to go, but Jump Pack Death Company with Bolters have me pretty excited. They're pretty much one of the only units in the game that can move 12", shoot rapid fire shots, and then assault like they've got a pair. The FnP is just icing on an already amazing cake.

Except that bolters are awful. If they had DA catapults, I'd be more excited. Also, I'll take the extra S5 attacks against T6 MCs any day the week over usless bolter shots.

Martel732 wrote:

 Voidwraith wrote:
Many folk argue that this isn't the way to go, but Jump Pack Death Company with Bolters have me pretty excited. They're pretty much one of the only units in the game that can move 12", shoot rapid fire shots, and then assault like they've got a pair. The FnP is just icing on an already amazing cake.

Except that bolters are awful. If they had DA catapults, I'd be more excited. Also, I'll take the extra S5 attacks against T6 MCs any day the week over usless bolter shots.

hey now, bolters are pretty good at what they do, killing infantry. sure, they aren't the OP tau rifles (str5 ap4... really?) or the psudeo rending eldar weapons (seriously, whoever thought of giving basic troops rending + run and shoot needs to be smacked, with a book, bigger than a DnD manual, in a case...) HOWEVER the two most overpowered armies weaponry aside, they are the best basic infantry weapon, for killing infantry. hell, they don't fall too short of DA catapult save the rending, AND they can out range them for at least a turn. 10 bolter shots at 23 in' is better than no catapult shots at, what, 19in or was there range 12?

Martel732 wrote:
Except that bolters are awful. If they had DA catapults, I'd be more excited. Also, I'll take the extra S5 attacks against T6 MCs any day the week over usless bolter shots.

Sure, and the Tri-Las Pred is terrible against hoards, so it's garbage. See...it's easy to make something suck if you pigeon hole it into a bad role.

Bolters may not be the weapon of choice vs. T6 and above, but highly mobile rapid fire S4 isn't a bad thing, and the added reach over the bolt pistols they'd normally have gives them another option if needed. I totally get that it's one less S5 attack on the charge, but I'm ok with that because of the added flexibility.

You get to shoot at infantry that the bolter can hurt? Must be nice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Voidwraith wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Except that bolters are awful. If they had DA catapults, I'd be more excited. Also, I'll take the extra S5 attacks against T6 MCs any day the week over usless bolter shots.

Sure, and the Tri-Las Pred is terrible against hoards, so it's garbage. See...it's easy to make something suck if you pigeon hole it into a bad role.

Bolters may not be the weapon of choice vs. T6 and above, but highly mobile rapid fire S4 isn't a bad thing, and the added reach over the bolt pistols they'd normally have gives them another option if needed. I totally get that it's one less S5 attack on the charge, but I'm ok with that because of the added flexibility.

I find bolters worse than useless in my games :\ People keep acting like S4 shooting in the quanitity that marines do it matters. 100 shoota boyz matter, and even then not against WS. 10 marines never matter.

I feel so bad with how many people feel the bolter is so lackluster :(

stop shooting T5+ with it! shoot the squishy T3 infantry! (unless, ofc, there are none, in which case do your best to hit things with lower armor saves!... or higher, as the case may be)

 raiden wrote:
I feel so bad with how many people feel the bolter is so lackluster :(

stop shooting T5+ with it! shoot the squishy T3 infantry! (unless, ofc, there are none, in which case do your best to hit things with lower armor saves!... or higher, as the case may be)

People are gaming against WS and Tau level firepower. They aren't building lists that give a hoot about the bolter. I've ignored units with boltguns since 2nd ed, and never regretted it. Boltguns: accomplishing nothing since at least 2nd ed.

I long since decided it is problems other than our troops and basic weaponry that present the SM their problems.

for one, every top tier army can jink all, or most of there vehicles.
Marines don't have any assault vehicles save the expensive LR limiting our CC capability.

Marines actually have a decent hold on how many special/heavy weapons they can bring to the table and how many USRs they can hand out or ignore.

other armies don't. (tau, eldar, IG especially). I've long since decided there is no way I am going to out shoot tau or IG. So I stopped trying. That being said, there is only one tau player in my area but jesus... the lists he plays.

way I see it we are going to have bolters, whether we wan them or not, I have decided to make the best use of them I can and be happy with what we got even though I think it could be better.

I just try to bring as few bolter-armed models as possible.

The fact that tac marines are 14pt/model and accomplish basically nothing every time I see them is a pretty high tax for those lists that have to take them.

I've never really had tactical marines not do anything, usually they kill off at least half there points, and lately they have been serving extremely well as extra wounds for mephy and corbs.

You could have Mephy or Corbs in a unit that actually did something, though. Like Sternguard.

Just the other day I saw a tri-Riptide list shoot 60 tac marines off the table and take all of three wounds doing it. Two of them self-inflicted. Tac marines are awful. DA would have at least been able to spit out a few rends.

but then I would feel bad spending the extra points for shooty, when I just want to charge things that will most likely instagib them in CC anyway (that aside, a turn of not shooting sternguard special ammunition feels wrong), like MCs, or other things with 3+ armor or worse . at most I will run them with VV to save on points. but I need 2 of them anyway, so I put them to that use.

other game rapid fire tacs killed enough gaunts/genestealers to make back more then there points!

I feel like it tactical squads had relentless (oh noes, the opness) they would be much better.

Tyranid players I've seen don't use gaunts and stealers. They use stuff they either don't care about or stuff that bolters can't hurt. Like Flyrants. I haven't actually played the Nids in 7th though. Got tabled by some Eldar, though. The fun times never stop in meq-land. Eldar are like, "LOL marines, you are so cute with your Rhinos and bolters. Die now".