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Im rather curious how they plan to make orks the same level of "OP Holy Feth this is ridiculous" as say Necrons/Eldar or Space Marines. I would really like to see the resurgence of Walker armies that are.....playable. I would really like to see our best formation not be a 101-301 man blob of boyz that makes playing EXTREMELY time intense. Mostly though I would really like to see our mobility come back into play and our vehicles becoming more of a threat then just..."hit it with a Lascannon and watch it explode".

Oh I´m pretty sure when the time for a new ork codex comes, someone at games workshop will just be like: "Screw these design decisions we did in the past, let´s do something completly new!" which ofc, will be weaker then what decurion and co. brought you.

Fauk wrote:
Oh I´m pretty sure when the time for a new ork codex comes, someone at games workshop will just be like: "Screw these design decisions we did in the past, let´s do something completly new!" which ofc, will be weaker then what decurion and co. brought you.

Do you think this will be intentional to create a more tier organized system for armies? such as , Newbie, easy, Medium, and difficult? Or is this another attempt at sales where GW feels they need to reduce the number of armies they produce so they minimize the abilities of a few armies and maximize the abilities of a few?

GW will never permit Orks to compete on an even field with Marines, Eldar or Necrons. Their inferiority to these races is deeply embedded in the fluff. They definitely need a leg up so that any confrontation between a fluffy ork list and a fluffy list from the newer codices doesn't result in an all-out slaughter. It would be nice if units that aren't tankbustas and grot artillery were restored to some semblance of usefulness.

What would it take to make Orks into an army that can fight while enabling players to use units like boyz, dreads and kans again? I'm thinking they would have to change mob rule so that any ork unit that's in combat or has 20+ models automatically passes morale, pinning and fear checks, with the threshold lowered to 10+ if there's a nob with a bosspole present. Boyz squads should also get 1 special weapon per 5 models, including the ability to take burnas.

One thing GW is likely to do is reduce the points cost of all of the gimmicky units so players will buy more models. They will also introduce formations/detachments that provide considerable rewards for using an unreasonably large number of choppa boyz. I'm guessing there will be one that provides 10 free trukks if you take 10 mobs of boyz. It will make all of those boyz mobs fearless and it will be absolutely necessary if you want to compete.

Haruspex wrote:
GW will never permit Orks to compete on an even field with Marines, Eldar or Necrons. Their inferiority to these races is deeply embedded in the fluff. They definitely need a leg up so that any confrontation between a fluffy ork list and a fluffy list from the newer codices doesn't result in an all-out slaughter. It would be nice if units that aren't tankbustas and grot artillery were restored to some semblance of usefulness.

What would it take to make Orks into an army that can fight while enabling players to use units like boyz, dreads and kans again? I'm thinking they would have to change mob rule so that any ork unit that's in combat or has 20+ models automatically passes morale, pinning and fear checks, with the threshold lowered to 10+ if there's a nob with a bosspole present. Boyz squads should also get 1 special weapon per 5 models, including the ability to take burnas.

One thing GW is likely to do is reduce the points cost of all of the gimmicky units so players will buy more models. They will also introduce formations/detachments that provide considerable rewards for using an unreasonably large number of choppa boyz. I'm guessing there will be one that provides 10 free trukks if you take 10 mobs of boyz. It will make all of those boyz mobs fearless and it will be absolutely necessary if you want to compete.

The morale idea is really good actually. The idea of free trukks for taking 10 mobz is....not 10 trukks is what? 250 points? lol 10 mobz is 600pts naked. but really you need a Nob BP and PK so its closer 1kpts not 600 :0 . I really really want to see Kanz and dreads be useful and playable again. I have a very limited budget and I refuse to buy Kanz or dreads until they are useful.

There's a few things I'm certain we will see

Firstly the gorka and morka naughts are going to move to lord of war and become super heavies, the claw will become d and they may receive a points increase.

Mob rule will be tweaked slightly, but don't expect it to change much.

Expect a few new kits, mainly characters Of some kind, maybe a new unit.

But on the whole the book will not change too much, as others have stated gw doesn't seem to want orks to be able to go toe to toe with the other races, they want you to Horde it up, it wouldn't take much to fix orks, just fix assault and they should be ok.

 Formosa wrote:


Firstly the gorka and morka naughts are going to move to lord of war and become super heavies

I'm not so sure about this because then there's no size tier difference between stompas and nauts. The nauts are supposed to fill the wraithknight/riptide class niche while stompas are more equivalent to Imperial Knights, so there's a good chance the nauts will be moved to LoW (assuming the riptide is as well) and become monstrous creatures but I don't know about superheavy.

One thing we are very likely to see is a silly formation of 5 nauts, though.

Haruspex wrote:

 Formosa wrote:


Firstly the gorka and morka naughts are going to move to lord of war and become super heavies

I'm not so sure about this because then there's no size tier difference between stompas and nauts. The nauts are supposed to fill the wraithknight/riptide class niche while stompas are more equivalent to Imperial Knights, so there's a good chance the nauts will be moved to LoW (assuming the riptide is as well) and become monstrous creatures but I don't know about superheavy.

One thing we are very likely to see is a silly formation of 5 nauts, though.

Anything to sell more of those kits. People bought them originally because they looked cool and then stopped when they realized that it would sit on the sidelines for the entirety of 7th edition because it is about 100pts over priced.

Is a new Ork codex on the horizon?

not as far as i know

Orks will get random tables to determine which random tables they have to roll on. These random tables will determine what your units do, each turn. You could have a Big Mek accidentally create a warp rift, sucking half the table into it. You could have a Shootaboy misfire and kill his unit's Nob. Think of the hilarity and fun of this new book!

What? No one plays Orks to be competitive: they like crazy, random stuff!

 Elric of Grans wrote:
Orks will get random tables to determine which random tables they have to roll on. These random tables will determine what your units do, each turn. You could have a Big Mek accidentally create a warp rift, sucking half the table into it. You could have a Shootaboy misfire and kill his unit's Nob. Think of the hilarity and fun of this new book!

What? No one plays Orks to be competitive: they like crazy, random stuff!

Or we chose orks because they are a lot of fun because of the randomness factor. But that doesn't mean our units have to be garbage. some of our best units can only purchase (for way to much) 4+ armor. Our Dok which is realistically the only way to get FNP can't have 4+ armor unless you put him on a bike. the list goes on. Or how about the useless that our dok character (mad dok) comes standard with Cybork ......which gives a 6+ fnp.....even though he already has a 5+.

They wrote the Ork Codex so half arsed that it is bordering on the insulting.

I want to play my orks and have a lot of fun AND be competitive.

Even if GW never decides to make Orks competitive, I think they should make them strong enough that other people can enjoy playing against them. Why even bother setting up if the game's going to be over after one shooting phase?

Don't hold your breath for anything good. Orks were designed to be the great menace which inevitably gets bitch-slapped by the IoM time and again. Got to make those spasssmereeeens fluffy!

 Ghazkuul wrote:

 Elric of Grans wrote:
Orks will get random tables to determine which random tables they have to roll on. These random tables will determine what your units do, each turn. You could have a Big Mek accidentally create a warp rift, sucking half the table into it. You could have a Shootaboy misfire and kill his unit's Nob. Think of the hilarity and fun of this new book!

What? No one plays Orks to be competitive: they like crazy, random stuff!

Or we chose orks because they are a lot of fun because of the randomness factor. But that doesn't mean our units have to be garbage. some of our best units can only purchase (for way to much) 4+ armor. Our Dok which is realistically the only way to get FNP can't have 4+ armor unless you put him on a bike. the list goes on. Or how about the useless that our dok character (mad dok) comes standard with Cybork ......which gives a 6+ fnp.....even though he already has a 5+.

They wrote the Ork Codex so half arsed that it is bordering on the insulting.

I want to play my orks and have a lot of fun AND be competitive.

Actually, I had this argument with an Ork player and ended up mathing it out (for full disclosure, I, as a Grey Knights player, was in the camp that 4ppm for a 4+ save was too much. The Ork player was trying to convince me that the 4+ was definitely worth it).

Here is the scenario: An Ork unit of infinite size is hit and wounded by 100 bolter shots. I am told by non-SM players that Bolters are a fantastic weapon for basic infantry so this should be a fairly good metric.
If the Orks are naked, they are wounded by 50 of the shots, and all 50 die. That is 300pts of Boyz dead.
If the Orks have 'eavy Armour, 50 are wounded and 25 die. That is 250pts of Boyz dead.

So, 'eavy Armour is not bad against one of the most plentiful (and one of the best(I am told)) infantry guns in the game.

Edit: For fun, I did it vs Lasguns (which are a bad gun, I am told):

Naked orks: 33 wounded, 27.5 die = 165pts.
'eavy Armour: 33 wounded, 16.5 die = 165pts.

So 'eavy Armour is exactly worth it vs lasguns (that is, you lose exactly the same pts of Boyz)

edit2: also for fun, against Tau Pulse Rifles:

naked: 66 wounded, 66 dead = 396pts.
'eavy Armour: 66 wounded, 33 dead = 330pts.

Making out pretty good on the deal, there!

Eldar Shuriken Catapults are roughly the same as boltguns (but kill slightly more due to Bladestorm).
Tyranid Fleshborers and Devourers are the same as boltguns and lasguns, respectively (as far as points killed go, not number of models dead).

Too bad nobody (except maybe Tau) fields basic infantry guns in large quantities when they can help it. They are the tax you pay in order to field special and heavy weapons. But yeah, if Orks face an army consisting entirely of bolters on a table with no cover to hide behind then the armor is worth it.

I wouldn't call bolters one of the best infantry weapons though. Point for point I would consider them the worst. If tac marines and sisters could take lasguns at a reduced points cost I would go for the lasguns every time.

Impossible to know. Tau is believed to be the next one around the corner and we have yet to see the end. of Age of Sigmar release.

GW has been changing the way they do the codexex every 3-6 codex since the start of 6th Edition through what we call 7th.

For all we know Tau might have a completely different design and structure from Eldar/Necron/Space Marines/Dark Angels/Imperial Knights.

By the time they reach Ork again now that they will also release new AoS army 40K will slow down. Also who knows we might be in 40K 8th, or 40K End Times... 40K Age of the Emprah.

SPECULATIONS FOR EVERYONE!

Well, for Marines you have to take 7 bolters to get a heavy, a special weapon and a combi-weapon. Or be Black Templars who get a much better ratio.

Even a 5 man unit takes 3 bolters for a non-bolter and a combi-bolter.

Grey Knights get 4 storm bolters for each special weapon they can take, or are taking Purifiers/paladins and get a 3 storm bolters for 2 special weapons ratio.

You're always going to be taking more basic weapons than heavy/special weapons unless you play exclusively units with good ratios (sternguard, aspect warriors, crusader/sister squads, devastators and equivalent)

Figured this would be a circle jerk about "how bad orks are".

Any of you run a optimized green tide? that thing is bonkers to go against for just about any opponent. a giant blob with a KFF wierd boy rolling on sanctic to get it that +1. painboy giving it FNP, etc. that blob rolls over just about anything it wants to.
One multicharge and i can guarantee the charged unit wont be there anymore, first blood? good luck that's one whole unit.

One of the regulars at my LGS brought a squiggoth loaded with tank bustas and SAG. destroyed a wraithknight and a half turn one. ended up almost tabling his opponent, was a great game to watch.

we will get the first codex of 8th edition, showing the new format, and getting us a few next gen formations....then every other codex comes after ours decked out with the next gen decurions. tis our fate.

but enough kidding...

as far as making our units and codex good here are a few things they might try.
-bastard version of fearless for orks (something that makes them fearless in the shooting phase, but normal leadership in assault).
-points decreases across the board, orks are all about numbers, the more we can take the bettah (and consequently the funner to fight).

when it comes to walkers then its a little different...i love my walkers and would love to see better justifications to bring them.
-the gmorkanauts get a point restructure. become initiative 3 (to fit the fluff of being piloted by nobz with better init than boyz). get options for taking off weapons or adding more). walkers are actually some of the best shooting platforms in my opinion, the ability to fire all weapons at full bs while moving is amazing.
-either a points decrease or a basic invul (forgeworld had it right when giving grot tanks and megadredds invuls). either will work in the walkers favor. one thing about walkers is that they are underwhelming in small numbers, or extremely hard to fight in large numbers. the more we can bring the better. walkers with invuls becomes the equivalent of mcs, no need to convert walkers to mcs, just give them invuls and they are back to equal footing (5up invul should be the minimum).
-add extra base attacks for all our walkers. the spacemarine dreadnought all the sudden became a more viable choice when they gave it 4 bloody attacks.
-make walker HOW have an ap value, or give them more HOW. i run the ghaz dreddmob and i find having the d3 HOW actually make the difference in combat.
-walkers are slow, so to make it up for the slogging have more shooting options. maybe make all bigshootas and rokkets have a cheep option to become twinlinked. orks need more twinlink.
-give all ork walkers ere we go. while not exactly making our walkers faster it does give them better threat range for charge (especialy on a waaagh) (this is another reason the ghaz dreddmob is good).
-make a cheaper version of armour plates that instead turns an immobilized result into a stunned result, or make grot riggers cheaper and have the option of instead of repairing a hull point they can repair an immobilized result.

im passionate about dreddmobs, but with the current rulz ive resulted into making clever conversions of normal ork vehicles and units and makeign them look like walkers. the biggest change for walkers would be invuls, it can help stem the power creap of dirt cheap melta wepaons and make walkers on par with mcs. but it has to be invuls and not an armour save. most weapons like melta that are hitting walkers are already ap3 or better, the only thing that can cut through invuls are d weapons (but if walkers get invuls then everyone will want more d weapons like the eldar, then we will have dakka dakka posts about what units should get d weapons and at what cost...its a vicious cycle).

I suspect it will largely be a copypaste, except Grotsnik will be removed, Ghaz will be nerfed and Burna Boyz will gain a Soul Blaze upgrade for 3 ppm.

Or things like that. You know, usual GW updates.

The biggest things I can see are changes to Mob Rule so that Orks aren't on the level of Tau in terms of Leadership, and something to increase Ork mobility. Orks are meant to get into CC, but to do it they either have to trade durability for speed or sheer numbers for moving at a snail's pace. Some form of formation that lets them Waaagh more than once or gives them free Trukks would go a long way toward helping them.

Here is what will happen in a couple years.

The design team will decide everything is swinging too much to power, and decide to weaken codex.

orks will be first in line, followed by nids, then probably guard chaos and dark eldar.

then they will realize they are not selling, and swing back the other way, just in time for eldar necron and marines.

It's kind of amazing that people still grasp onto this "GW has a hard-on for Imperial factions" myth, considering that more than half of the Imperial armies are crap and "NPC races" who almost never win in the fluff like Tyranids and Eldar are taking names in every competitive tournament.

This isn't even taking into consideration that 6th edition was entirely dominated by xeno armies, with only vanilla marines having any kind of real presence among the Imperial armies.

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Im rather curious how they plan to make orks the same level of "OP Holy Feth this is ridiculous" as say Necrons/Eldar or Space Marines. I would really like to see the resurgence of Walker armies that are.....playable. I would really like to see our best formation not be a 101-301 man blob of boyz that makes playing EXTREMELY time intense. Mostly though I would really like to see our mobility come back into play and our vehicles becoming more of a threat then just..."hit it with a Lascannon and watch it explode".

They'll probably change design paradigm yet again by the time a new Ork codex releases, so I wouldn't hold any breath.

Much like people in 2014 were looking at the releases and expecting everything eventually to get toned down, and now in 2015 everyone is expecting everything to get toned up, 2016 will probably see-saw back again.

Their voltron formation will require 6 mobs of boys and a warboss. The benefit will be that any unit of boys may permanently join any other unit of boys during your movement phase at any point in the game. This will cause any squad involved to auto-rally if needed.

Some of the auxiliaries will generate random amounts of certain unit types that come from your board edge each turn as long as you have the models.

EG: tide of lootaz- 210 points
At the start of each turn, a unit of 2d6 lootaz moves on from your board edge.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Ghazkuul wrote:
Im rather curious how they plan to make orks the same level of "OP Holy Feth this is ridiculous" as say Necrons/Eldar or Space Marines. I would really like to see the resurgence of Walker armies that are.....playable. I would really like to see our best formation not be a 101-301 man blob of boyz that makes playing EXTREMELY time intense. Mostly though I would really like to see our mobility come back into play and our vehicles becoming more of a threat then just..."hit it with a Lascannon and watch it explode".

They'll probably change design paradigm yet again by the time a new Ork codex releases, so I wouldn't hold any breath.

Much like people in 2014 were looking at the releases and expecting everything eventually to get toned down, and now in 2015 everyone is expecting everything to get toned up, 2016 will probably see-saw back again.

Pretty much. Orks were also unlucky this time around at being the first of a new edition which almost always turns out badly in comparison to later codices (i.e. look at CSM and the previous Dark Angels book). And honestly, I prefer the Orks being in the upper-middle to middle tier rather than being up there with the crazy codices since I have to actually try to think to get my wins rather than face-rolling in crazy formations. Not to say that the Ork codex can't use several tune-ups but I rarely if ever hear people complaining about Orks being unfun as opponents (though unfortunately there is a vocal minority when it comes to saying how unfun it is to play as Orks).

At least Ork armies still have a plethora of actual builds you can try out that, while not necessarily optimal in tournament settings, can still generally give most opponents a run for their money. This is in stark contrast to the codices that really need work before us like Imperial Guard, Tyranids and CSM.

die toten hosen wrote:
Figured this would be a circle jerk about "how bad orks are".

Any of you run a optimized green tide? that thing is bonkers to go against for just about any opponent. a giant blob with a KFF wierd boy rolling on sanctic to get it that +1. painboy giving it FNP, etc. that blob rolls over just about anything it wants to.
One multicharge and i can guarantee the charged unit wont be there anymore, first blood? good luck that's one whole unit.

One of the regulars at my LGS brought a squiggoth loaded with tank bustas and SAG. destroyed a wraithknight and a half turn one. ended up almost tabling his opponent, was a great game to watch.

Green tide is not much fun to play with though because every phase you have to move 101-300+ models. Move, Run, assault can take over an hour and a half just for that one turn. Big Mek, Weird boy and Pain boy are 3 HQs for this blob your talking about taking, not including the mandatory 1 Warboss. Your talking about almost 200points of HQ for your green tide before you even get into anything like Heavy support or fast attack.. Furthermore, the new KFF SUCKS! its a 6in Bubble that only works in the shooting phase. and even if by some miracle you managed to get a bunch of models into that little bubble and by another miracle were able to get sanctuary off on your weird boy its still only a 4++ and a 5+ FNP. not exactly OP necron lvl. Furthermore if you multi assault, even from the green tide, its a disorganized assault and you lose the +1 attack and +1 strength, so your hitting at S3 and theres still a good chance you only get a handful of boyz into CC because unless your opponent is stupid he isn't move closer to the tide, he is opening up the distance to keep popping shots at it.

A Squiggoth with Tank bustas and a SAG killed a WK in one turn? then that Eldar player didn't know how to play. Squiggoths are slow and Tankbustas have a rng of 24. So He walked into the shooting gallery....and even then the ork player still rolled stupid good against the WK. (10 Tankbustas = 3.3 hits which equals about 1-2 wounds, unless he gets an invul or cover and failed his FNP) Unless your saying the Big Mek with the SAG rolled Box cars and sucked the WK into a vortex, and if that was the case. GG its a 1 in 12 chance.

 Ghazkuul wrote:

die toten hosen wrote:
Figured this would be a circle jerk about "how bad orks are".

Any of you run a optimized green tide? that thing is bonkers to go against for just about any opponent. a giant blob with a KFF wierd boy rolling on sanctic to get it that +1. painboy giving it FNP, etc. that blob rolls over just about anything it wants to.
One multicharge and i can guarantee the charged unit wont be there anymore, first blood? good luck that's one whole unit.

One of the regulars at my LGS brought a squiggoth loaded with tank bustas and SAG. destroyed a wraithknight and a half turn one. ended up almost tabling his opponent, was a great game to watch.

Green tide is not much fun to play with though because every phase you have to move 101-300+ models. Move, Run, assault can take over an hour and a half just for that one turn. Big Mek, Weird boy and Pain boy are 3 HQs for this blob your talking about taking, not including the mandatory 1 Warboss. Your talking about almost 200points of HQ for your green tide before you even get into anything like Heavy support or fast attack.. Furthermore, the new KFF SUCKS! its a 6in Bubble that only works in the shooting phase. and even if by some miracle you managed to get a bunch of models into that little bubble and by another miracle were able to get sanctuary off on your weird boy its still only a 4++ and a 5+ FNP. not exactly OP necron lvl. Furthermore if you multi assault, even from the green tide, its a disorganized assault and you lose the +1 attack and +1 strength, so your hitting at S3 and theres still a good chance you only get a handful of boyz into CC because unless your opponent is stupid he isn't move closer to the tide, he is opening up the distance to keep popping shots at it.

A Squiggoth with Tank bustas and a SAG killed a WK in one turn? then that Eldar player didn't know how to play. Squiggoths are slow and Tankbustas have a rng of 24. So He walked into the shooting gallery....and even then the ork player still rolled stupid good against the WK. (10 Tankbustas = 3.3 hits which equals about 1-2 wounds, unless he gets an invul or cover and failed his FNP) Unless your saying the Big Mek with the SAG rolled Box cars and sucked the WK into a vortex, and if that was the case. GG its a 1 in 12 chance.

I agree, Green Tide is.... boring. My Orks havent left the shelf for all of 7th because my KFF has terrible range, my Warboss doesnt have a melee Invuln, Trukks are useless, and while my Boyz havent gotten worse (except for Mob Rule, screw that change) everyone elses base Infantry got better.

Oh and i used to run "ard boyz, they are useless now because everyone is in the mentality of "if it aint AP 4 its crap" and its true. and dont tell me it isnt. I recently switched to Ad Mech and they will wreck Orks. The Vanguard will throw out so many wounds a green tide would crumble in a turn or two and the Rangers will just sit on the other side of the board and snipe your .

And then theres Wraithknights. Ya Screw those things.

Also when your talking about "OMGWTFBBQ OP" armies remember that Necrons lost a ton of stuff too, all they really got out of the new book is durability (alot of it to be sure) but they lost most of what made them unique, no more Lichguard bouncing bullets, Reanimation is just FnP v2.0, they have no good LoW (dont tell me that Tesseract is, its only good as a Suicide Bomber) The main culprits in being crazy powerful are mostly the Eldar. Stupid cheap Wraithknight.

Sky is always falling with you people isnt it