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So, I'm relatively new to 40k, for the longest time I would use friends' armies to play, as they wanted to play and I was willing to try the game. I bought my first models earlier this year (Harlequins) and mostly played with them. I was given a friend's leftover Eldar models (Some windriders and avengers) from his box set acquisition of ages ago. I bought some jetbikes and wraithguard that were sale for commission at my local gaming store as they were cheap, and have picked up some other models along the way as finances allowed. This was mostly before the new codex dropped. I now have enough models to run in our local tournaments (2500 or less points). I always liked the fluff and aesthetics of the Harlequins and Wraithguard especially and to a lesser extent Eldar as a whole. I don't own a Wraithknight, I don't run scatterlasers on my bikes, and I run them in larger units. But since the new codex dropped I feel like a pariah at tournaments and in online communities. I try and run lists that rely on non-cheese units, but I am limited by what I own and I can only pick up very little by way of new units as my finances are not amazing.

I don't know what I can do, I definitely can't just abandon my army and start over, its taken me 6 months to finally not have to proxy parts of the one I do have. I guess I just want everyone to know not everyone who plays Eldar is doing it to be a cheesemongering douche. I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

At our local store nobody but me plays or had played Eldar, but everyone keeps abreast of changes and frequents communities, so now I have people refusing me games, asking I not use units that I dont have a way to replace with alternates, or just accusing me of following the flavor of the week. So, what can a guy do? How do I play the army I like, and the only one I own without being told everywhere I go/look that I'm TFG for playing it? Hell, I don't even win that many games, heh. Anyhow, thanks for reading, and any advice is welcome.

I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

Not cheese. Then why did you pick eldar over dark eldar, those are very mobile too? And you wouldn't have had problems with playing those, against most people.

Makumba wrote:

I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

Not cheese. Then why did you pick eldar over dark eldar, those are very mobile too? And you wouldn't have had problems with playing those, against most people.

Well, like I said, right at half my army is Harlequins, the Eldar stuff came as a combination of units gifted to me to help me get up to the correct number of points, and what I found on sale cheap at my local store. Another deciding factor was and is that I don't like the fluff of the Dark Eldar (Torture porn maniacs) nor much by way of their aesthetics other than reaver jetbikes and hellions which are both pretty dang cool looking.

so now I have people refusing me games, asking I not use units that I dont have a way to replace with alternates, or just accusing me of following the flavor of the week.

I'd look for less douchey players to play with. Any other FLGS or friends around?

Makumba wrote:

I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

Then why did you pick eldar over dark eldar, those are very mobile too?

Did you even read what OP wrote?

Makumba wrote:

I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

Not cheese. Then why did you pick eldar over dark eldar, those are very mobile too? And you wouldn't have had problems with playing those, against most people.

Probably because dark eldar don't have the wraith constructs, and heck, maybe he wants his troopers to be less 'pure evil' and more just 'necessary evil'. Maybe he likes the bright colours! There are plenty of reasons to pick craftworld eldar over dark eldar other than "cos I wanna win".

As for your question, if you've got wraithguard, do you still have the arms for wraithblades? I doubt anyone would call those guys OP, and I think they look pretty cool to boot. If you're willing to do an arm swap, that could be plausible. I don't know if you play any of the formations in the codex, but if you do, it might be an idea to drop those as well, as our troops are quite capable without.

If you've not got a wraithknight and don't spam scatterbikes out of your butt and don't use the formations, I'm not sure what people are really complaining about (fire dragons?). I don't think eldar are really unbeatable for anyone under those conditions.

Makumba wrote:

I like playing a mobile army, I like the fluff of merciless constructs controlled by souls pulled from the afterlife out of sheer desperation, and the aesthetic quality of jesters armed to the teeth in lithe poses. I don't try to be that guy, to be unfair, or to in general cheese.

Not cheese. Then why did you pick eldar over dark eldar, those are very mobile too? And you wouldn't have had problems with playing those, against most people.

He clearly detailed how he ended up with an eldar army, seems to me it just kind of happened through circumstance and opportunity. It's not like he waited until the latest cheesedex dropped then went out and bought a ton of scatbikes and wraithknights.

As for advice to the OP, you have to accept 2 things. 1) GW took an already strong 6th Codex and buffed it more for 7th. Some people will be hating for that fact alone. 2) It isn't your fault that GW did that, it's not like you personally wrote the codex or anything.

Best advice is if you play a lot of local friendly games, just don't turn the cheese dial up to max. Limited numbers of scatbike upgrades, only one wraithknight, that sort of thing. Also for future purchases maybe branch out a bit int9 dark eldar allies to tone things down a bit. As long as you don't encourage an OP attitude in your list choices I'm sure most people will be cool and also enjoy games with you.

If it's a tournament however, that's a bit different in that the idea is to bring a list which will give you the best chance of winning. In that situation I wouldn't feel like I had to make apologies for my codex by bringing toned down lists. Again, as long as you have a reputation for fun games in a friendly setting I wouldn't vilify you for playing eldar per se.

Seriously don't understand why people aren't willing to give you a game.

I like to play against someone first before deciding if I want to play against them again.

Yes you are playing Eldar who are nigh on buffed.

But you could bring an army and a personality that is fun to play. SO I'll judge you after.

These people that aren't giving you a chance.

Sod em

He clearly detailed how he ended up with an eldar army, seems to me it just kind of happened through circumstance and opportunity. It's not like he waited until the latest cheesedex dropped then went out and bought a ton of scatbikes and wraithknights.

Good people don't start playing eldar. I could understand if the history went something like this. I bought tons of banshees and scorpions, and stil no one wants to play me. But this was clearly the case of starting a harli army hoping for it to be as OP as the second edition and it not delivering. The instead of switching to an army others could accept, he starts stacking up on bikers and Wrights, and back then Wrights ment serpents.And now he is suprised that when jetbikes got better, and in the case of his army stayed just as good, WG runs around with D people would suddenly think everything is ok?

Did you even read what OP wrote?

yeah eldar players cries that, even his tier 2 list is better then other players armies and no one wants to play him, because the games aren't fun for them.

You're sadly a prime example of eldar player paying the price of years filled with eldar cheese and WAACs playing net lists only.
Only way to solve it is to stick to peeps who enjoy playing with you and trying different flgs and hobby clubs

You are paying the price for what Eldar has been for years. Blame GW's bad rule-balancing, but not much to do.

Makumba wrote:

He clearly detailed how he ended up with an eldar army, seems to me it just kind of happened through circumstance and opportunity. It's not like he waited until the latest cheesedex dropped then went out and bought a ton of scatbikes and wraithknights.

Good people don't start playing eldar. I could understand if the history went something like this. I bought tons of banshees and scorpions, and stil no one wants to play me. But this was clearly the case of starting a harli army hoping for it to be as OP as the second edition and it not delivering. The instead of switching to an army others could accept, he starts stacking up on bikers and Wrights, and back then Wrights ment serpents.And now he is suprised that when jetbikes got better, and in the case of his army stayed just as good, WG runs around with D people would suddenly think everything is ok?

Did you even read what OP wrote?

yeah eldar players cries that, even his tier 2 list is better then other players armies and no one wants to play him, because the games aren't fun for them.

So to answer above regarding the wraithblades, the answer is yes, actually! I run two units of the blades, one with axes, one with swords. I use one unit of guard as my sole non-tank, anti-tank. Don't use the D-scythes as anti-infantry is something the Harlies do pretty well on their own.

Now on to this post. So, to answer what you said here, I don't actually own any Wave Serpents. I have a Falcon and some Starweavers. I've only played 40k since last year, so I have no frame of reference as to Harlequins from Second Edition, I just really liked their look and the way they are supposed to be this army that comes screaming out of the webway in a riot of color, hallucenogenic gas, and psychic smoke and mirrors to hit hard and run away. I own a grand total of 11 windriders, and as I stated I do not run scatterlasers. They are my sole troops other than a unit of 10 Dire Avengers. Also, suggesting that after I dropped my entire hobby budget for months to start the army of Harlequins that I should have just shelved them and started from scratch seems a bit much, you know? I don't get your hostility, but it is the exact reason I made this thread, so thanks for the handy example, I suppose.

Anyhow, most people locally are still pretty cool about it, and my friends are great (One plays Necrons so he knows the score, heh.) I guess I was hoping someone would say the hate would die down soon and it'd all be okay. XD. But thanks for the tips and showing me its just the cheesy stuff people hate.

Edits for phone typin'

look up all posts of dman137.

He is the typical Eldar power gamer.

I want to see him troll dakkanuts some more.

OrderofCegorach wrote:

Makumba wrote:

He clearly detailed how he ended up with an eldar army, seems to me it just kind of happened through circumstance and opportunity. It's not like he waited until the latest cheesedex dropped then went out and bought a ton of scatbikes and wraithknights.

Good people don't start playing eldar. I could understand if the history went something like this. I bought tons of banshees and scorpions, and stil no one wants to play me. But this was clearly the case of starting a harli army hoping for it to be as OP as the second edition and it not delivering. The instead of switching to an army others could accept, he starts stacking up on bikers and Wrights, and back then Wrights ment serpents.And now he is suprised that when jetbikes got better, and in the case of his army stayed just as good, WG runs around with D people would suddenly think everything is ok?

Did you even read what OP wrote?

yeah eldar players cries that, even his tier 2 list is better then other players armies and no one wants to play him, because the games aren't fun for them.

So to answer above regarding the wraithblades, the answer is yes, actually! I run two units of the blades, one with axes, one with swords. I use one unit of guard as my sole non-tank, anti-tank. Don't use the D-scythes as anti-infantry is something the Harlies do pretty well on their own.

Now on to this post. So, to answer what you said here, I don't actually own any Wave Serpents. I have a Falcon and some Starweavers. I've only played 40k since last year, so I have no frame of reference as to Harlequins from Second Edition, I just really liked their look and the way they are supposed to be this army that comes screaming out of the webway in a riot of color, hallucenogenic gas, and psychic smoke and mirrors to hit hard and run away. I own a grand total of 11 windriders, and as I stated I do not run scatterlasers. They are my sole troops other than a unit of 10 Dire Avengers. Also, suggesting that after I dropped my entire hobby budget for months to start the army of Harlequins that I should have just shelved them and started from scratch seems a bit much, you know? I don't get your hostility, but it is the exact reason I made this thread, so thanks for the handy example, I suppose.

Anyhow, most people locally are still pretty cool about it, and my friends are great (One plays Necrons so he knows the score, heh.) I guess I was hoping someone would say the hate would die down soon and it'd all be okay. XD. But thanks for the tips and showing me its just the cheesy stuff people hate.

Edits for phone typin'

So from the sounds of it, if you have no wave serpents, you're running your wraithguards/blades on foot? I think I can safely say people who refuse to play you are just being sour now. A single battle cannon shot could ruin those units, and they might never even get to fight.

It's going to take something special to kill the eldar hate. They've (nearly) always been a powerful army, and they're also one of those armies where every unit has a special rule to make your opponent grind his teeth!

Best thing you can do is play with the people who are willing, and just stay positive. Anyone who won't play you purely based on your army isn't worth the time anyway.

If you want to know why you are having a had time finding a game look up Dman137.
He, and players like him are the reason the Eldar are being given a bad name.

Well to amswer this before I hit the hay for the night, yes I do footslog the Wraiths. If I run either or both of my Farseers, or the pair of Shadowseers I have I'll try and use them to buff them so they can make the crossing. People tend to focus the starweavers full of Harles so I've not paid the price for footslogging too much as of yet.

Seems like it will! I didn't realize just how vilified this race was, bad enough for someone to say I'm a bad person to play them it would appear.

Yeah, I agree, I just thought this would be a good hobby to kinda branch out and meet some new people who share an interest in something.

One quick(-ish) way to get games would be to get a minimum CAD of another army, and use the Eldar or Harlies as allies of them. You're limiting what you can take, but the main army doesn't have to be big to run as the primary force.
This way, you get to use most of your models still, 'only' have to get an HQ, 2 troops and a codex, and will tell people you're bending to pressure to accommodate their horrible attitudes.

I will usually downplay any win I get with my Eldar. If people think I am running an overpowered army, I'll build it as normal, but expect to win by a fair-few points. If not, it's more of a draw than a win.

I can really empathise with this one. Pick up some rangers and guardians cheap off ebay. They're pretty useless, so you can get them for cheap, and use them as your troops. Tell the people you hope to play against that you have guardians and rangers, All bikes are non-scat. That should soften them enough to get some games in. Offer to drop the wraith units. Don't use the "oh, my friends left this for me" excuse, every eldar player does that, and for some reason, their friends always leave them wtih scatbike, fire dragons, and wraiths.

Each game lasts 3 hours, so you have to understand why many will flat out refuse to play you, if they know you'll win from the very start.. At least you're not an eldar player around my area who were hit with a (well deserved) blanket ban.

Makumba wrote:

yeah eldar players cries that, even his tier 2 list is better then other players armies and no one wants to play him, because the games aren't fun for them.

heh, this is so true, along with the "I started X editions ago, when they were not OP, and required true skill!!!111"

I might try more focus on the harlies. I don't see how anyone can accuse you of cheese then.

One of my clubs is an uber-casual one, where anything remotely competitive is shunned, so I feel your pain.

Sounds like your list is fairly benign. You are just up against hate and bias. Some of that might fade when the next hot thing drops, but Eldar are going to remain a powerhouse for a while.

I’d suggest approaching it from a social angle. Be friendly, be fun. Be a guy people want to spend a few hours pushing plastic around with. Once people start seeing what your army is like, not the hypothetical worst case net-list scenario, and get a few games against it to learn it’s weaknesses and counters, I think you will get more games.

But you need to get the foot in the door first, and for that a laugh and a smile will be your best option. Good paintjobs will also help. Getting your teeth knocked in by a beautifully painted army takes the sting out of it.

Make it very clear you are running a CAD and those Wraithguard have no D Scythes. Otherwise you have axed everything that pisses me off about the new Eldar codex. The worst part is, i have enough money now that i considered finally building that Iyanden army i always wanted (its virtually all Wraithguard FYI) Well that sure as hell aint happening now, so way to go GW you just turned down my money....again!

Another option and a really good ice breaker is to offer your opponent to switch armies. You play their army, and let them have some fun with your perceived, OP/broken pile of pure Kraftworld cheddariness!
It's a great way to actively prove that most of what people fear about your own collection are nothing more than community hype and fearmongering. Outside of running a handful of specific lists that truly are obnoxious soul crushing WaaC's lists, Eldar are just a really well rounded army. Most armies can deal with them when they're not bringing much/any of the obnoxious stuff, with likely Chaos Marines, Orks & Tyranids being the poor sods who are the only truly boned armies against Eldar in general.

If half your army is Harlequins and people are giving you grief over that, they are donkey-caves.

Harlies are good but not point efficient. You are already gimping half your army and for some people it is not enough. I know I love my Harlies and the competitive players give me a hard time for it. "Why do you insist on putting those overpriced units? Your list could be better." I know but I like my list the way it is.

Play to have fun and stop caring what a bunch of douches think about you.

This sounds like a super Non-cheesy Eldar army. If people have problems with it, they're butt-nuts. Just ridiculous. I like the offering to switch armies idea, though.

One should never switch armies. Any army is a personal thing, it's like a baby. You got one from sooooo little, cared for it, put the pieces together, made it come to life with beautiful colors. You both developed a strong bond, you learning it and it being handled by you. you proudly watched it grow and grow until it became a fully fledged army. Over the years this bond has grown to affection and passion to win with it and it alone. You defend it in forums even though you might be mistaken and you don't even care.

You don't sever such a bond by trading armies. This not a swingers club gentlemen. Your models are pieces of your soul. Never forget that.

Either army swap or just ask people to build a list for you or w/e. We have one guy that will complain about any unit that is currently causing him trouble, (he's fun to play other than that) so I just started telling him to go ahead and make a list for me to run when he makes his. No more complaints!

Some, including posters in this thread, just can't get past the mental blocks they have built. This prevents them from seeing what you actually are doing. They only see the worst thing even though it isn't actually there. Some players will complain about how OP the Eldar are while they are beating the Eldar player. They will give the new, clueless player a hard time while smashing him. It is ridiculous, but persistent.

Really it is the same as real life racial prejudice though obviously not nearly as harmful. All they see is color and boom they "know" the person intimately. Taking a moment to actually get to know them isn't necessary because I've seen many of your color before and know how they act. Look at what others of your color have done.

Good tips here on dealing with the situation, but breaking through those prejudices may not ever fully happen.

Makumba wrote:

He clearly detailed how he ended up with an eldar army, seems to me it just kind of happened through circumstance and opportunity. It's not like he waited until the latest cheesedex dropped then went out and bought a ton of scatbikes and wraithknights.

Good people don't start playing eldar. I could understand if the history went something like this. I bought tons of banshees and scorpions, and stil no one wants to play me. But this was clearly the case of starting a harli army hoping for it to be as OP as the second edition and it not delivering. The instead of switching to an army others could accept, he starts stacking up on bikers and Wrights, and back then Wrights ment serpents.And now he is suprised that when jetbikes got better, and in the case of his army stayed just as good, WG runs around with D people would suddenly think everything is ok?

Did you even read what OP wrote?

yeah eldar players cries that, even his tier 2 list is better then other players armies and no one wants to play him, because the games aren't fun for them.

Ehm... some people like Elves. It's their go-to choice in any setting or game where they're an option, or have a close approximation. A totally-new 40K player who's played RPGs or video games or fantasy-based game could ask "Ok, so, who are the elves?". His/her friends will say "There's two kinds, good and bad." And the new player has a 50/50 chance of picking CWE.

Harlequins look cool, they have interesting fluff, they are Space Elves on speed. They have a unit called a Death Jester, ffs. How Metal is that?

I love the Harlequins especially the Solitaire

"Last turn"
Ok my Solitaire jumps... 20 inches and then assaults for another 5 into those guys on that objective"
"....holy crap dude"
"Oh and he has 10 attacks and has Initiative Yes"
"......Well then..."

Love him for a great last ditch objective clear, some great tales can come out of that, oh and their Warlord chart is hilarious.

I think your problem is your local meta.

Anyone that gives you issues is a poor sport, period.

Insert any excuse/complaint and I will say it's wrong and here's why.

There are countless threads about the issues with 40k (including this one). Many people are leaving the game for others. In my area, it's hard to find a game at all. Throw in the fact that I am in my late 20's and planning a wedding, I have very little free time.So when I have a chance to play, I am going to play.

Anyone who's at a local store that has the TIME to refuse a game against someone is socially defunct already. You should thank that person for refusing to play you because chances are they end up being TFG and YOUR evening would be wasted listening to someone who'd rather complain about why something is overpowered.

I've had people tell me that 5 sternguard with 3 combi meltas in a pod is OP, but only after popping Pask in his rear armor. People will complain about anything.

You could have the worlds best net-list in front of you looking for a game and have never opened a rule book but someones going to deny you a game because of what you brought? I say again, THEY are doing you a favor.

Just wait a couple weeks and offer to play against Tau and their new book....more than likely they won't be getting any games either.