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STOCKHOLM — Swedish police have confirmed that there were widespread sexual assaults at a music festival in Stockholm last summer but denied allegations of a cover-up.

Police hadn't mentioned the August incidents at the "We are Sthlm" festival until newspaper Dagens Nyheter reported on them this weekend following the sexual assaults on New Year's Eve in Germany.

Stockholm police spokesman Varg Gyllander confirmed to AP on Monday there was "a large number" of sexual assaults and that scores of men were detained. He denied a cover-up but said police should have reported on the incidents at the time "given the nature of the crime."

Gyllander couldn't confirm Dagens Nyheter's report that most suspects were from Afghanistan, but said "this involves young men who are not from Sweden."

These incidents are coming fast and furious, really.

By the last line, I'm sure he meant it was a British stag party that got a bit out of hand.

More info here. It seems the youngest girls that were sexually assaulted were between 11 and 12 years old.

Absolutely, flabbergastingly stupid behaviour by the police if the allegations are true (and seeing as the police are more or less admitting, they probably are).

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Absolutely, flabbergastingly stupid behaviour by the police if the allegations are true (and seeing as the police are more or less admitting, they probably are).

To quote the guy in charge of the operation (Peter Ågren, if you're wondering who to be angry at):

Det här är en öm punkt, vi vågar ibland inte säga som det är för att vi tror att det spelar Sverigedemokraterna i händerna. Vi får ta på oss det här inom polisen.

Which seems to roughly translate into:

It's a sensitive topic, sometimes we don't dare to say things as they are because we're afraid that it plays into the hands of the Swedish Democrats (populist right-wing). We have to take responsibility within the police-force.

Essentially, the police are playing politics and covering up facts to stop the anti-immigration parties getting support.

Y'know, if the facts are against you, Mr Policeman, maybe you're the one in the wrong?

Bloody hell. The guy needs a belt round the ear. What ludicrous nonsense.

Is this the level of integrity and intelligence of the European Left?

It is actions like THIS, this sort of dishonesty and cover ups, that feed the populist right. Unbelievable.

This, after the German police deployed the water cannon on the Pegida protesters earlier in the week. Are they for real? Where was the water cannon on New Years?

I feel sorry for those poor young girls and hope the jackasses that attacked them are caught and punished.

 Da Boss wrote:
Bloody hell. The guy needs a belt round the ear. What ludicrous nonsense.

Is this the level of integrity and intelligence of the European Left?

It is actions like THIS, this sort of dishonesty and cover ups, that feed the populist right. Unbelievable.

This, after the German police deployed the water cannon on the Pegida protesters earlier in the week. Are they for real? Where was the water cannon on New Years?

Thought crimes are worse than real crimes. I thought you guys knew this already.

 kronk wrote:
I feel sorry for those poor young girls and hope the jackasses that attacked them are caught and punished.

They were caught. They were then escorted out of the festival. Any that were positively identified were detained... And then let go as there was zero chance that the police were gonna press charges.

It doesn't help that any migrant in Sweden can claim they are 12 and therefore not be able to be detained for crimes committed. Like these guys who claim they're 14 in the left hand photo and 16 in the right hand one (he is actually racing those kids, and the journalists gave him the teddy bear to try to make him look younger):

Wow really? That guy looks my age.

Anyway, it seems like the situation over there is only getting worse. And again the governments have no balls to actually solve the problem.

It doesn't even surprised me after what happened in England (to Rotherham IIRC).
You know, "don't make amalgam", "Immigration is an opportunity / chance " this kind of things...

 nullBolt wrote:

It is weird how just pictures can change your opinion. I thought that and for a second said to myself "He looks to innocent to be a rapist" and than caught myself realizing how ludicrous that actually sounds.
Photos and bias are weird things.

Those are actually two different people abusing the system, not one.

Apparently the main reason they do this is:

"It is considered unreasonable for children to wait longer than six months for a decision on whether they get to stay or not, and thus it is a huge advantage, when seeking asylum, to claim that you are under 18."

The idea of kids being decided on quickly/more favourably is a perfectly fine thing in my mind. People who aren't kids should not be doing it.

I'm finding myself less and less surprised by the behaviour of governments and bodies such as the police force. They're afraid of being sued and 'getting it wrong' as a single mistake and it's splashed all over the news by over zealous media.

The day is coming when the general public will take action into their own hands to deal with these child molesters, thieves, rapists and aggressive individuals. I also expect far too many innocent refugees and immigrants will be attacked as a consequence.

Attacks have already started in Cologne unfortunately. But it's predictable if people think the police will not protect them.

Indeed, I saw some reports earlier today. We'll end up with two polarised groups - it'll end up everyone who isn't hardline Muslim vs them. Suppose that's what ISIS wants

 nullBolt wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Bloody hell. The guy needs a belt round the ear. What ludicrous nonsense.

Is this the level of integrity and intelligence of the European Left?

It is actions like THIS, this sort of dishonesty and cover ups, that feed the populist right. Unbelievable.

This, after the German police deployed the water cannon on the Pegida protesters earlier in the week. Are they for real? Where was the water cannon on New Years?

Thought crimes are worse than real crimes. I thought you guys knew this already.

 kronk wrote:
I feel sorry for those poor young girls and hope the jackasses that attacked them are caught and punished.

They were caught. They were then escorted out of the festival. Any that were positively identified were detained... And then let go as there was zero chance that the police were gonna press charges.

It doesn't help that any migrant in Sweden can claim they are 12 and therefore not be able to be detained for crimes committed. Like these guys who claim they're 14 in the left hand photo and 16 in the right hand one (he is actually racing those kids, and the journalists gave him the teddy bear to try to make him look younger):

Citation needed on all of that.

Polarisation is definitely what ISIS wants. But it's very hard to stop it.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Spoiler:

 nullBolt wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Bloody hell. The guy needs a belt round the ear. What ludicrous nonsense.

Is this the level of integrity and intelligence of the European Left?

It is actions like THIS, this sort of dishonesty and cover ups, that feed the populist right. Unbelievable.

This, after the German police deployed the water cannon on the Pegida protesters earlier in the week. Are they for real? Where was the water cannon on New Years?

Thought crimes are worse than real crimes. I thought you guys knew this already.

 kronk wrote:
I feel sorry for those poor young girls and hope the jackasses that attacked them are caught and punished.

They were caught. They were then escorted out of the festival. Any that were positively identified were detained... And then let go as there was zero chance that the police were gonna press charges.

It doesn't help that any migrant in Sweden can claim they are 12 and therefore not be able to be detained for crimes committed. Like these guys who claim they're 14 in the left hand photo and 16 in the right hand one (he is actually racing those kids, and the journalists gave him the teddy bear to try to make him look younger):

Citation needed on all of that.

Basically as it goes into here https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21428644-300-with-no-paper-trail-can-science-determine-age/ there is no reliable way to determine human age within the parameters you need to distinguish between an old looking 12-17 year old and a young looking 18- (25 I think it is, not in that paper)

so since 'civilised' countries tend to require the state to prove their case (ie Ayslum seeker X is over 18 and so can be treated as an adult) rather than the individual (who may well not have papers for many innocent reasons, including that the never had any, rather than just because they threw them away)

however this does mean it incentivises smart asylum seekers who might not qualify to lie about their ages so they get the added protection a minor child is entitiled to

 Da Boss wrote:
Polarisation is definitely what ISIS wants. But it's very hard to stop it.

Ehhh I dunno if it is all that hard. Terrorist groups do want to polarize their enemies, but more than anything they want massive reprisals. If Western govts try so hard to not polarize the groups that they start looking the other way over flagrant sexual assaults of (and lets be honest here) White women, there will be reprisals. Massive, over the top responses. It's Algeria all over again and the only people that learned from it are the extremist Muslims.

Best bet is to enforce the law like it should and really look at some of the programs in place for young, single ME men to come into the West and not change their culture one bit. I fully am willing to accept any woman, child, or elderly person from these areas, but fighting age, straight, single men should be looked at more. We are the number one source of violence throughout history for a reason.

So we should treat all the illegals as they were adult, unless they can prove they aren't.
This way we are sure to keep only the kids, if you really want to keep the kids because you are "human" etc...
Thus, we avoid such disgusting deception, and this encourage legal means to enter the country.
No-one want to be pushed back after such a travel just because he hadn't his papers, whereas now they are encouraged to lie.

 godardc wrote:
So we should treat all the illegals as they were adult, unless they can prove they aren't.
This way we are sure to keep only the kids, if you really want to keep the kids because you are "human" etc...
Thus, we avoid such disgusting deception, and this encourage legal means to enter the country.
No-one want to be pushed back after such a travel just because he hadn't his papers, whereas now they are encouraged to lie.

What? It's pretty easy to tell adult males from pre-pubescent males and adult males from adult women.

These sexual attacks aren't coming from Syrian refugees, but they are coming from adherents to their beliefs already in the West. And that's why I think the adult, male population from these countries should be checked more. Nobody ever had a great country dropped on them out of a war, you've gotta fight for it.

But of course those forays have really fethed the dog in their own ways (cough mujhadeen in Afghanistan cough). Bet Reagan really hates those decisions from beyond the grave. Along with the cocaine trafficking and Iranian arms sales and whatnot. Maybe the dementia and trickle down too, but that doesn't seem to have gone away as much in American politics.

After all these incidents over the last weeks or months, the thing that disturbs me almost the most is that so very few of the perpetrators seem to be caught and sentenced for their crimes. And that is not only true for these big incidents like this in Sweden or the New Year's incidents in Cologne, Hamburg and Helsinki, but also for the "common" (god that sounds cynical) sexual assaults happening every day, everywhere. If perps were caught, registered and sentenced like the law in the vast majority of countries describes it - then, I think, the population as a whole wouldn't go as deep into this refugee debate. If the police had the competence, funds and tools to weed out the criminals efficiently, and if people could have trust in the police and of course also in the courts to do this - then at least "justice would be done" to the perpetrators themselves, and there wouldn't be a need for this huge debate about effectively punishing whole groups of people, refugees, in this case. (By "keeping them out" as the argument usually goes)

So, moar funds, staff, and training for the police please. They need to be able to do their job effectively.

Good news! It's only going to get worse.

I can't help but wonder, have similar problems appeared in cases where the women outnumber the men?

Seaward wrote:
Good news! It's only going to get worse.

Depending on what sources of news you look at show different proportions of men. Some photos show crowds that are overwhelmingly young men, yet other parts of the media disproportionately only show families and children. There's so much propaganda being used to fit a certain narrative.

I saw some numbers (sorry, I can't remember where) that suggested it was roughly a 50/50 split between young men and families.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
Depending on what sources of news you look at show different proportions of men. Some photos show crowds that are overwhelmingly young men, yet other parts of the media disproportionately only show families and children. There's so much propaganda being used to fit a certain narrative.

The actual statistics suggest that it's 76% men, 15% women and the rest are "children and others". Since children can apparently include 30-year-old men, it'd probably be best to assume it's 85% men.

 Da Boss wrote:
I saw some numbers (sorry, I can't remember where) that suggested it was roughly a 50/50 split between young men and families.

They're lies.

All these brave men forging ahead into the EU, leaving the women behind for ISIS to deal with.

What a brave thing to say from the comfort of your armchair :(

If you could only send one member of your family on a very dangerous journey to an unknown but perhaps safer place, knowing there's a high chance you won't see each other ever again, who would you choose?

 Minx wrote:
What a brave thing to say from the comfort of your armchair :(

If you could only send one member of your family on a very dangerous journey to an unknown but perhaps safer place, knowing there's a high chance you won't see each other ever again, who would you choose?

Easy, I'd send my wife to the safe location where she won't be raped by Jihadies or shot on the streets

Next question?

 Wulfmar wrote:

 Minx wrote:
What a brave thing to say from the comfort of your armchair :(

If you could only send one member of your family on a very dangerous journey to an unknown but perhaps safer place, knowing there's a high chance you won't see each other ever again, who would you choose?

Easy, I'd send my wife to the safe location where she won't be raped by Jihadies or shot on the streets

Next question?

Yeah, for real. Oh man we can only manage to get a few of us safely to Europe, should we send our wives, women who can't defend themselves from ISIS, and children?
Or should we send all of our 18-35 year old men and boys so they can lie about their age and commit heinous crimes at a disgusting rate?

not worth it