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I really(!) dislike the Mortarion, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle model. Just can't help it.
Would you be okay with instead facing the forgeworld model "Mortarion the Reaper Primarch of the Death Guard"?

The model is smaller, and I would need to be rebased it onto a bigger base. And maybe add a jetpack from a Raptor or a Bloat drone.

Nope, it's about a tenth the size of the 40k Mortarion. I'd rather you used a Hive Tyrant or something closer in size.

No. That would be some serious modelling for advantage their as 40K Mortarion is considerably larger than 30K Mortarion, which is very important for line of sight.

I'd play against it no problem, but I'd have to agree that in any tournament or competitive game (and namely pick-up games with people you don't know) it'd be real modeling for advantage and would be seen as such.

YES, please. I cant stand that overly busy PoS model.

On the one hand I use Nagash as mortarion since I like Nagash much more and it's a fluff theme of the army. So using a different model with the same rules is fine by me.

However what your going to and from, there is an issue. The 30k model is just way to small. You would have to do some serious over modeling to make it the same general size to stay fair. It would be like using the old avatar of khaine model and saying that's mortarion, it's too small to fit right.

It's too bad we don't have pre-deamon rules for him though. The 30k model is quite cool. But it would be more like abaddons rules / stat lines.

People claiming it's modeling for advantage seem to forget that, as long as the base is the correct size, having the smaller profile is as much a negative as it is a positive. Your Mortarion will not be able to see as well as not be seen.

It's less of an advantage and more of a wash. It all balances out.

Of course you could just take the FW model, repose him so hes in the air, stick some chains or some gak on him to connect him to the base, and add some skeletal wings or some crap to get a better model with a similar profile. .

True, I can see the advantages of it being smaller...
My entire Death Guard army is themed around having the look of abandoned, dirty and rusty heavyindustry. More brown than green. And I already got some factory ruins on some of the bases. And the new mortarion really does not fit into that...

What if I added some ruins as tall as the original model, and/or a rusty street light. It would fit with the terrain on the base of the forgeworld model, and with my army in general. And it would be as tall and wide as the model.
Sure, I would get a "flying ruin" unit, but it would be fair.

I would have no problem with it in a casual game. Not in a competitive game though, because the FW model is much smaller.
If you model him so that he is about the same size, then it would be better.

 Lance845 wrote:
People claiming it's modeling for advantage seem to forget that, as long as the base is the correct size, having the smaller profile is as much a negative as it is a positive. Your Mortarion will not be able to see as well as not be seen.

It's less of an advantage and more of a wash. It all balances out.

Of course you could just take the FW model, repose him so hes in the air, stick some chains or some gak on him to connect him to the base, and add some skeletal wings or some crap to get a better model with a similar profile. .

For a model who is primarily wanting to not be seen since he is mostly melee, it certainly isnt a wash, if it were something like a shooty dreadnaught for example *then* it would be okay-ish.

 Lance845 wrote:
People claiming it's modeling for advantage seem to forget that, as long as the base is the correct size, having the smaller profile is as much a negative as it is a positive. Your Mortarion will not be able to see as well as not be seen.

Morty doesn't care about being able to see anything outside of 18" at best for his pistol or psychic powers. Anyone trying to put fire on him from greater than 18" is entirely at the disadvantage if LoS is blocked in a situation due to the difference in size.

If you put in on a 120mm(or w/e) base with a scenic piece that makes it roughly the size of Mortarion and you ALWAYS count the scenery for LoS.

Good luck with covering those big ole wings.

Oh and if you want a good comparison for using it without some MASSIVE size filler "Hey guys, I don't want to use the wraithknight model, Can I just use one of these wraithguard instead? I promise I won't LoS it behind things that wouldn't cover a wraithknights legs."

If you can create a similar silhouette sure.

Hopefully FW releases new daemonized version of him for siege of terra. Something that looks him having ascending to daemonhood without being overblinged liked plastic. I'm affraid they will cop out and say to use plastic version for that and Angron though :(

I usually bring to the battlefield lots of conversions or scratch built vehicles/walkers. But they have the exact size of the original models, always. Same base, same dimensions and also same loadout to be WYSIWYG.

I'd also accept offical older models. So if there's an official Mortarion which is also quite smaller than the current one it would be ok for me. If GW releases new huge Ghaz and Grotsnik I'll continue play with the original models since those obsession for huge centerpiece models is ruining the game IMHO.

As people said, you gotta keep the same size-and the 30k model is not even remotely in the same category.

Personally, it's not really the hight of Morty thats the problem since he's not really that tall, much shorter than Magnus or a Wraithknight, it's that the wings make him very wide which is why it's so hard to hide him.

If you made sure he's on the right size base, I'd be okay with it. However, you'd also have to stipulate an exception for him regarding line of sight. Basically, if your opponent could ever even consider the possibility of him being unobscured, he's unobscured, no arguments, ever.

 Blackie wrote:
I'd also accept offical older models. So if there's an official Mortarion which is also quite smaller than the current one it would be ok for me. If GW releases new huge Ghaz and Grotsnik I'll continue play with the original models since those obsession for huge centerpiece models is ruining the game IMHO.

Except GW makes new rules for models that 'grew' in size giving them something more befitting their new station. It would count doubly with Ork characters, who grow stronger and tougher with size, or say new Abaddon model after powerup in the wake of 13th black crusade, so using old model in that situation would be pure cheating for advantage unless you also use old rules. These wouldn't be even remotely the 'same' characters despite sharing the name, much like you can't use Sergeant Culln model for the Leviathan dreadnought Culln entry, it's different unit now, and besides, even if you tried to argue otherwise the size is a factor in balancing too.

 Irbis wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
I'd also accept offical older models. So if there's an official Mortarion which is also quite smaller than the current one it would be ok for me. If GW releases new huge Ghaz and Grotsnik I'll continue play with the original models since those obsession for huge centerpiece models is ruining the game IMHO.

Except GW makes new rules for models that 'grew' in size giving them something more befitting their new station. It would count doubly with Ork characters, who grow stronger and tougher with size, or say new Abaddon model after powerup in the wake of 13th black crusade, so using old model in that situation would be pure cheating for advantage unless you also use old rules. These wouldn't be even remotely the 'same' characters despite sharing the name, much like you can't use Sergeant Culln model for the Leviathan dreadnought Culln entry, it's different unit now, and besides, even if you tried to argue otherwise the size is a factor in balancing too.

You can still use the old Lord of Change with the current rules so long as he's sitting on an updated base, even though he's around half the size of his newer version. Same goes for the original 2nd edition Ghazghkull model, or the crappy old Ork Trukk.

GW's policy towards legacy models has always been that they're fully legal, and it would be really stupid if they went back on it. Say what you will about OP's Mortarion situation, but the old stuff isn't cheating, that's ironclad.

No issue with it in a friendly game assuming you agreed to extrapolate up the FW Morty size for shooting/LoS purposes.
Likely wouldnt go down to well in a tourney setting however, might be seen as modelling for advantage.

Cooler model anyway than GW batboy.

 Fafnir wrote:
You can still use the old Lord of Change with the current rules so long as he's sitting on an updated base, even though he's around half the size of his newer version. Same goes for the original 2nd edition Ghazghkull model, or the crappy old Ork Trukk.

GW's policy towards legacy models has always been that they're fully legal, and it would be really stupid if they went back on it. Say what you will about OP's Mortarion situation, but the old stuff isn't cheating, that's ironclad.

Updated base? GW's policy is you can use the base it came with.

You can still use the wraithlords/hive tyrants from 2nd ed with 40mm SQUARE bases if you want.

People seem to be missing the point here.
There isn't a previous mortarion model in 40k.

The one people are talking about is 30k......another game all together.



Friendly games I don't see why not, aslong as your prepared to make allowances for it being insanely smaller.

In any competitive environment, I see people not accepting it.
As stated, it's only a reasonable give and take if it's a shooting based model.
But for a melee orientated model? Not being seen helps to no end.




I do agree though on the looks.
The 40k one doesn't look amazing atall.

Agreed. While I love the Magnus model, Mortarion looks goofy and lacks any gravitas.

FW Mortarion is waay too small to use as a replacement though.

Of course if you play RAW game has zero wysiwyg requirements :lol:

FW mortarion is a different model for a different game, 30k vs 40k, if the models are in similar size, there won't be a problem, we're not talking about 'put your model on the base it came with', using the FW mortarion is basing for advantage whether you like it or not, unless you agree to let mortarion to be seen from anywhere on the board by all opponent forces.

I would play against it in casual games for sure. In a tournament setting I wouldnt be cool with it.

I think all of the new Primarch models look dumb.

If you replaced his statline with Guillimans and added a wound I'd be okay with it.

Yes I would, and to appease some of these other guys, put a clear plastic shape that is the same size as ugly mortairan. make a slot in the base for this plastic, and use magnets to make it removable and sturdy.

*This is the im drunk modifier*

Considering the older Greater Daemons are less than half the size of the current version, and are still useable, I don't see why not. A lot of people make a big deal about the model silhouette, but I've not seen anything official from GW other than it has to be at least 51% GW (though i could have missed something).

While some may complain about model size, that fact is, there really isn't a rule against it. In fact I'm not even sure the base size matters. Again I could have over looked something, but I remember some comment by GW that you can base your models on whatever base you want. Since base size is often used to measure distance, it cuts you short of your shooting range, just as much as it cuts your opponent short on their range.