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I'm looking to try out third edition 40k with my roommate since most of those old books are dirt cheap nowadays but I do have a few questions if anyone can help me out.

Besides the BRB and codices for my orkz and his chaos boys what other supplements would you guys recommend?

There's 3 chapter approved books (2001/03/04), and according to 40k lexicanum all 3 contain updates for the ork codex - but are they just the same update reprinted 3 times? or 3 successive updates that build on eachother?

Are there any FAQs or Dev commentary outside of the chapter approved books? I've done a cursory google and not been able to find any so far.

Any other tips would be appreciated as we've never experienced any other edition besides 8th.

(apologies if this is in the wrong subforum but it didn't seem to fit anywhere else.)

I don't think you actually need the CA books. CA was my most active edition and I never even knew CA was a thing.

That said, you guys should probably come to the table "on the same terms" for third edition. The 3.5 chaos book was probably the most powerful codex ever made for someone who REALLY wants to go ham on winning. Also there's not a lot of role flexibility in 3rd, so a blob of 30 strong ork boys cannot harm a tank beyond their knob. So trying to make sure you're on the same page about what kind of armies you're bringing is going to greatly improve the experience.

Chapter Approved in 3rd edition was a collection of the rules published in White Dwarf. The list on Lexicanium shows that this isn't comprehensive though as I have an old White Dwarfs with army lists for Blood Pact, Salamanders, Kroot etc that aren't listed.

3rd edition was a bit of a wild west, loads of random army lists and trial rules got published and the internet wasn't a big thing back then. So anyone could turn up with a wierd unit and photocopied page of rules you'd never heard of before!
That makes it a really fun edition to play, but both you and your opponent need to approach the game in the same spirit to make the best of it.

As for extra stuff, the BRB has rules for every army in so you don't 'need' anything else. However if your playing Orks then Codex:Armageddon is a nice one to pic up for the Kult of Speed army.

To be honest 3rd edition was the golden era of the game imo (the 2nd edition chaps will tell you different!). So obviously I'm going to tell you that any books you pick up from that period are going to be fantastic!

Whatever Chapter Approved had the "Trial Assault Rules" in it. Get that.

Agreed with Kroem, 3rd ed was great. I'd recommend getting the trial assault rules from ca 2004 as they help cut down on some of the ridiculousness that cc can turn into. You don't need the book, as pdfs shouldn't be hard to find. And don't let your buddy play Iron Warriors.

I don't suppose there exists a pdf of the 3rd edition book anywhere?

I loaned my copy to someone when 4th hit and never got it back.

you might find some helpful links in the 40k general on /tg/

Careful of older PDFs The early ones the covers fall off.

Yeah you want the CA's for the 3.5 updates basically.

 vipoid wrote:
I don't suppose there exists a pdf of the 3rd edition book anywhere?

I loaned my copy to someone when 4th hit and never got it back.

The 3E 40k core rulebook is literally the only Games Workshop produced Warhammer 40,000 related gaming publication I have never found, seen, or heard of existing as a PDF. Rogue Trader Vehicle Manual? It's out there. Slaves to Darkness? Found a PDF of it over a decade ago while I was still in grad school. 2E Wargear book? The Codex Imperialis? 2E and 3E White Dwarf rules for Necrons (before they got codex books)? Not a problem, there's PDF's floating around.

But the core 3E rulebook? Nope.

I keep getting tempted to just make my own

CptMendoza wrote:
I'm looking to try out third edition 40k with my roommate since most of those old books are dirt cheap nowadays but I do have a few questions if anyone can help me out.

Besides the BRB and codices for my orkz and his chaos boys what other supplements would you guys recommend?

There's 3 chapter approved books (2001/03/04), and according to 40k lexicanum all 3 contain updates for the ork codex - but are they just the same update reprinted 3 times? or 3 successive updates that build on eachother?

Are there any FAQs or Dev commentary outside of the chapter approved books? I've done a cursory google and not been able to find any so far.

Any other tips would be appreciated as we've never experienced any other edition besides 8th.

(apologies if this is in the wrong subforum but it didn't seem to fit anywhere else.)

You don't *need* any of the CA's, but the 2003 book with the Trial Assault/Transport Rules is probably a good one to pick up (they weren't "mandatory" but were used in most events for the second half of 4E, and became standard for 4E). Aside from that, unless you want Legion/Chapter special rules before they got rolled into the 3.5E CSM and 4E SM books, the rest is going to be pretty niche, stuff like Kroot mercenaries, IG Armored Companies, and a lot of the stuff in the CA books just got rolled into codex updates in 3.5E books or early 4E.

Yep, the "trial assault rules" basically made 3rd edition into "Version 3.5" etc.

So you had 3rd...3.5...and then 4th if that makes sense. It was a pretty large fundamental change.

PS: If you can find the book or a PDF...I believe 3rd did have all of the "basic" army rules in the main rulebook, since they ditched the revision of 2nd edition and swapped over to making 3rd edition in a short time span. It negated all of the 2nd edition books and materials completely (including the Sisters of Battle codex which was about six months old?).

So technically I think you could play a game with just the main book and do fine for a start.

I liked 3rd best stripped down. My first game after a few years off after playing 2nd for years and reading RT was with a playtester for GW and he chaos warrior rhino rushed me... then I had a couple simpler games with normal people and took more time away until 4th. 2nd remains my favorite but stripped down 3rd or 4th is probably what 8th should gave been. In the change ftom 7th to 8th I dreamed of an amalgam of 2nd rpg and detail customizability with streamlined 4th. We got a card game instead...

I prefer 5th to 3rd but i have fond memories of many of the good codexes form 3rd-chaos 3.5, dark angels mini-dex. IG armored company lists via CA

The glaring negative i have with 3rd is "guess range weapons" for templates. as in you guess wrong you don't even get to fire it. it was better when 4th instituted the 2d6 + scatter for template weapons (-for BS if you have LOS).

4th had it's own problem with overpowering eldar and tau skimmers.


I hope you enjoy your 3rd ed foray. it is quite a different game than 8th especially with the area terrain rules that could hide things based on size category. .

The codex armageddon can easaly be found online. It has some cool list for ork speed freeks.

I started with 4th ed and i have the fondest memories of it. I played mostly footslogging IG and the IG codex back then was just glorious. Lots of customisation

If i could just play this edition back...

The last breaths of 4th were somewhat bad though. Chaos codex that lost all of the options but gave lash of submission instead so everyone was running Slaanesh DPs. Orks codex also overbuffed the army in that period of time.

I wasnt a fan of 5th. It absolutely killed my footslogging IG and forced to buy lots of tanks which i just didnt like as playstyle. Introduced many absurd rules like wound allocation that made things like Orks nob bikers practically unkillable. So... as i said i wasnt a fan.

4th on the other hand in its middle period of time before the late Chaos and Orks codexes was just very nice. It was just a polished 3rd edition.

If i had to change something in it i would maybe buff vehicles a little but without overbuffing them like 5th did.

Glumy wrote:
4th on the other hand in its middle period of time before the late Chaos and Orks codexes was just very nice. It was just a polished 3rd edition.

It was also an era of first turn charging blood angels, near enough indestructible eldar skimmers, and literally indestructible chaos lords among other things.

It was interesting to see GW changing speeds a few times throughout the edition and 3rd, trying to figure out what the game was supposed to be or where it was going seemingly without any unified plan.

3rd evolved far more than any edition since. It was an era where GW wasn’t just tweaking point costs in CA, but replacing whole swaths of the rules. And adding new ones in WD. Codex creep/escalation was also rampant and out of control.

I loved it, and consider it my favorite edition. But a chunk of that is rose colored classes and the nostalgia. Another is focusing on the first half. At the end it was a hot mess that needed to be put down.

But if you are going retro-hammer, you are in the position to sit with your friends and cherry pick what you want to include. And issue your own FAQs to tone down some of the broken stuff.

Good luck.

A.T. wrote:

Glumy wrote:
4th on the other hand in its middle period of time before the late Chaos and Orks codexes was just very nice. It was just a polished 3rd edition.

It was also an era of first turn charging blood angels, near enough indestructible eldar skimmers, and literally indestructible chaos lords among other things.

It was interesting to see GW changing speeds a few times throughout the edition and 3rd, trying to figure out what the game was supposed to be or where it was going seemingly without any unified plan.

Haha I remember that, where half the points of a Chaos army would be in their lord with loads of deamonic gifts and weapons!

 Kroem wrote:
Haha I remember that, where half the points of a Chaos army would be in their lord with loads of deamonic gifts and weapons!

And the other half would be in daemonettes being summoned directly into close combat...

 Vaktathi wrote:
The 3E 40k core rulebook is literally the only Games Workshop produced Warhammer 40,000 related gaming publication I have never found, seen, or heard of existing as a PDF. Rogue Trader Vehicle Manual? It's out there. Slaves to Darkness? Found a PDF of it over a decade ago while I was still in grad school. 2E Wargear book? The Codex Imperialis? 2E and 3E White Dwarf rules for Necrons (before they got codex books)? Not a problem, there's PDF's floating around.

But the core 3E rulebook? Nope.

I keep getting tempted to just make my own

Yeah, that's been my experience, too.

It's a shame as I liked reading back and remembering not just the core rules but also the old army rules for each of the factions.

A.T. wrote:
It was interesting to see GW changing speeds a few times throughout the edition and 3rd, trying to figure out what the game was supposed to be or where it was going seemingly without any unified plan.

The more things change the more they stay same

 Vaktathi wrote:
The 3E 40k core rulebook is literally the only Games Workshop produced Warhammer 40,000 related gaming publication I have never found, seen, or heard of existing as a PDF.

It is out there, though the only one i've seen recently was lacking the army rules section. Hidden in a directory listing amongst other seeming lost files as 3e errata and faq.

Slightly different formatting to the old FAQs - i.e. "Errata - Ork Q&A v1.0.pdf" on the subject of an army list from white dwarf answered 'Karl Renwick screwed up his army list'

A.T. wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The 3E 40k core rulebook is literally the only Games Workshop produced Warhammer 40,000 related gaming publication I have never found, seen, or heard of existing as a PDF.

It is out there, though the only one i've seen recently was lacking the army rules section. Hidden in a directory listing amongst other seeming lost files as 3e errata and faq.

Slightly different formatting to the old FAQs - i.e. "Errata - Ork Q&A v1.0.pdf" on the subject of an army list from white dwarf answered 'Karl Renwick screwed up his army list'

I'll have to take another look somewhere then, it was weird how that seemed to be the one always missing PDF libraries.

 vipoid wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The 3E 40k core rulebook is literally the only Games Workshop produced Warhammer 40,000 related gaming publication I have never found, seen, or heard of existing as a PDF. Rogue Trader Vehicle Manual? It's out there. Slaves to Darkness? Found a PDF of it over a decade ago while I was still in grad school. 2E Wargear book? The Codex Imperialis? 2E and 3E White Dwarf rules for Necrons (before they got codex books)? Not a problem, there's PDF's floating around.

But the core 3E rulebook? Nope.

I keep getting tempted to just make my own

Yeah, that's been my experience, too.

It's a shame as I liked reading back and remembering not just the core rules but also the old army rules for each of the factions.

I feel ya, and it's driven me bonkers having to hunt for the hardcover when trying to look stuff up

Glumy wrote:
I started with 4th ed and i have the fondest memories of it. I played mostly footslogging IG and the IG codex back then was just glorious. Lots of customisation

If i could just play this edition back...

The last breaths of 4th were somewhat bad though. Chaos codex that lost all of the options but gave lash of submission instead so everyone was running Slaanesh DPs. Orks codex also overbuffed the army in that period of time.

I wasnt a fan of 5th. It absolutely killed my footslogging IG and forced to buy lots of tanks which i just didnt like as playstyle. Introduced many absurd rules like wound allocation that made things like Orks nob bikers practically unkillable. So... as i said i wasnt a fan.

4th on the other hand in its middle period of time before the late Chaos and Orks codexes was just very nice. It was just a polished 3rd edition.

If i had to change something in it i would maybe buff vehicles a little but without overbuffing them like 5th did.

Hrm, in all fairness, IG were generally absolute competitive garbage in3E/4E, and while there was the loss of Doctrines in 5E, the infantry and upgrades got so much cheaper, coupled with Orders and coupled with the very important lack of consolidation into new combats (the primary killer of 3E/4E IG armies), that even Infantry Guard (while being sub-optimal next to mechanized lists) should have been substantially better off.

While 5E was by no means perfect (Kill Points, vehicle defensive weapon rules, wound allocation, etc), 3E/4E had plenty of its own, invinci-skimmers, non-skimmer transports being unusable and dangerous to use (oh, your transport sustained a penetrating hit, auto-disembark and pinning test!), consolidation into new combats, etc.

There are really two different third editions worth playing, and then a barren wasteland in between.

the basic BBB included rules and army lists for everything. It's wonky and the lists are limited, but it works. The armies are actually balanced-ish, and while the core rules allow for dumb stuff, the army lists are toned down enough that they dont' get too abusive.

Near the end of the 3rd, you had codexes for everybody, including new armies like Daemonhunters (grey knights plus inquisition), Tau, and Necrons. You also had Trial Vehicle Rules and Trial Assault rules, which fixed/toned down assault and transports, and opened the game up a bit.

In between though... oof.... you had ridiculous codex creep, and wildly inbalanced army lists. There was an absolute ton of content though, and you could build some great niche lists.

I'd recommend starting with bare bones 3rd edition with the BBB lists, and only add in the later codices if you have the TVR/TAR.

My vote is 4th edition. It was a refined 3rd with loads more options in the codexes. 5th edition over-toughened vehicles and was the start of inflating invuln saves and propogation of too many high AP weapons.

In fairness, 5th only "overtoughened" cheap transports that could afford to not care about most damage results and still do their job. Gun tanks were trivially easy to shut down as even a single glancing hit kept them, at a minimum, from shooting for a turn, while Melta was both cheap and plentiful (cheaper than it is typically now for most units). Nobody had issues with Land Raiders, Russ Tanks, Hammerheads, Wave Serpents, Dreadnoughts, etc, it was the ubiquitous 35-50pt Rhino's that could sustain 5 out of 6 glancing or 3/6 penetrating results (with 4+ smoke cover) and still do their job without issues

 Polonius wrote:

I'd recommend starting with bare bones 3rd edition with the BBB lists, and only add in the later codices if you have the TVR/TAR.

THIS. Unless someone really wants to play Tau or Necrons, keep it to the BBB and the lists printed inside. Corehammer 3rd is the most balanced version you'll find and a really good introduction to newer players since it lacks the flashy, gamey aspects the Codexes bring in.

 Vaktathi wrote:
In fairness, 5th only "overtoughened" cheap transports that could afford to not care about most damage results and still do their job. Gun tanks were trivially easy to shut down as even a single glancing hit kept them, at a minimum, from shooting for a turn, while Melta was both cheap and plentiful (cheaper than it is typically now for most units). Nobody had issues with Land Raiders, Russ Tanks, Hammerheads, Wave Serpents, Dreadnoughts, etc, it was the ubiquitous 35-50pt Rhino's that could sustain 5 out of 6 glancing or 3/6 penetrating results (with 4+ smoke cover) and still do their job without issues

Fair enough, but the way that manifested on the table was that every marine deployment zone looked like a parking lot. It looked like garbage. Couple that with forests not blocking LOS, multi-wound allocation rules, removal of lots of options from the 4th ed books and the Ward codexes, 5th gets a fat thumbs-down from me.

Fifth edition was a nice big house with an open floor plan... and shag carpeting everywhere. The thing is... that's a pretty simple fix.

Fifth edition has a few things bad about it, but some are corner csaes (wound allocation really was only a big deal for Ork nobs and GK paladins). The vehicle damage chart is likewise simple to house rule around (either by giving +1 for every subsequent roll, or by giving all rolls a blanket +1).

 Insectum7 wrote:
Fair enough, but the way that manifested on the table was that every marine deployment zone looked like a parking lot. It looked like garbage.

The cheap transports started in 4th edition, probably due to how suicidal riding in a non-skimmer vehicle was. 5e had a double dip of two different designers fixing the same problem.

50pt rhinos, 70pt heavy bolter razorbacks, and 85pt single fire point chimeras were a bit less appealing. That said the objectives rules in 5e would have still pushed players back to them to hide their troop choices...