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 Insectum7 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:
Chaos 3.5 is the most horribly balanced and overpowered Codex ever made and will ruin friendships.

Fixed that for you...

I never found any TAC build out of that book to be particularly OP. It was more like you could make some insanely skewed lists that would still suffer hugely from the right counterbuild. You could do A LOT with that book, which was really what made it great.

I'd say that's a good assessment. My Night Lords never felt "horribly balanced and overpowered" but some legions could make some pretty nasty skew lists. But skew lists have always been a problem.

And anybody who thinks 3.5 csm where the most OP thing gw ever did has never played pre-marines FAQ Iron Hands. And that's just the most recent example.

There does not exist a time that 40k wasn’t broken. “What" and “How” change with the wind, but it has always been the case.

Find a group of like minded people to play, and it’s a great game. But have a “fun” player up against someone working the system for min/max advantage? Not so much.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd say that's a good assessment. My Night Lords never felt "horribly balanced and overpowered" but some legions could make some pretty nasty skew lists.

I think it's fair to say that you could play a 'friendly' 3.5 list. The book was just notable in the many a varied ways you could be a dick with it, from lists with more than twice the heavy support of anything else in the edition to those that couldn't be attacked at all until they were charging into assault with you.

If you wanted Heavy Support you could also run the IG Armored Company, or SM with Veteran Devastator Squads, which made the Elite iirc. Or 8 Land Raiders because it was a dedicated tranport for Terminators and Command Squads (Or maybe just Terminator Command Squads) Not that you had the points for it, but you technically could fit it in the FOC.

There were a lot of pretty permissive rules then, it was awesome.

A.T. wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
I'd say that's a good assessment. My Night Lords never felt "horribly balanced and overpowered" but some legions could make some pretty nasty skew lists.

I think it's fair to say that you could play a 'friendly' 3.5 list. The book was just notable in the many a varied ways you could be a dick with it, from lists with more than twice the heavy support of anything else in the edition to those that couldn't be attacked at all until they were charging into assault with you.

True. Iron Warriors could be ridiculous. Gw seems to have a thing for legions/chapters with "iron" in their name.

The book was everything people love about it and everything people hate about it. The 3.5E CSM book had numerous overpowered broken and gimmicky things, it had tremendous customization, it beautifully illustrated and evoked the feel of the Traitor Legions, and had just as much practically unusable garbage

 Vaktathi wrote:
and had just as much practically unusable garbage

For instance, basically the entire section on Thousand Sons.

 Elbows wrote:
40K in general needs to get the feth over the stupid "everyone should be stunningly good and accurate"

Unless you're a Damon Prince. Or a Tyranid monster. Then you're as good at hitting things as Guardsmen.

I don't mean to necro a thread but figure it's better than raising a new one.


Any of you old heads know of a way to create lists for 3rd in an easier fashion than pen and paper? Both myself and my roommate are spoiled by battlescribe and would prefer to keep things as digital as possible besides the books.

My 3e orkodex finally arrived and I plan on reading it back to front a few times this weekend while I wait on the BRB and chaos dex to arrive.

3rd? Ah, I played Blood Angels and found out that GW turned them into idiots who couldn't stand still.

CptMendoza wrote:
I don't mean to necro a thread but figure it's better than raising a new one.


Any of you old heads know of a way to create lists for 3rd in an easier fashion than pen and paper? Both myself and my roommate are spoiled by battlescribe and would prefer to keep things as digital as possible besides the books.

My 3e orkodex finally arrived and I plan on reading it back to front a few times this weekend while I wait on the BRB and chaos dex to arrive.

AFAIK there isn't any army builder program for 3E out there, IIRC Lone Wolf's Army Builder didn't debut until a year or so into 4E (so sometime in 2005) and that was the first program I can recall of that sort (at least that was widely used). One could probably build Battlescribe files for 3E, but I'm not aware of any currently.

That said, if you found an old version of AB and some pre-2008 data files, that would effectively do the trick (as the 3E codex was in use through most of 4E until early '08) though I have no idea where you'd find them these days.

 Vaktathi wrote:

CptMendoza wrote:
I don't mean to necro a thread but figure it's better than raising a new one.


Any of you old heads know of a way to create lists for 3rd in an easier fashion than pen and paper? Both myself and my roommate are spoiled by battlescribe and would prefer to keep things as digital as possible besides the books.

My 3e orkodex finally arrived and I plan on reading it back to front a few times this weekend while I wait on the BRB and chaos dex to arrive.

AFAIK there isn't any army builder program for 3E out there, IIRC Lone Wolf's Army Builder didn't debut until a year or so into 4E (so sometime in 2005) and that was the first program I can recall of that sort (at least that was widely used). One could probably build Battlescribe files for 3E, but I'm not aware of any currently.

That said, if you found an old version of AB and some pre-2008 data files, that would effectively do the trick (as the 3E codex was in use through most of 4E until early '08) though I have no idea where you'd find them these days.

I know Army Builder was around in 3rd Edition. I remember fooling around with lists when I was in Middle School/Early High School (1999-2002). I had zero luck finding anything.

I do remember the old website Portent had people create and share spreadsheets to make creating armies easier. They contained no special rules like Army Builder and Battle Scribe, but it did save time. I'm not sure how excel savvy you are, but it is an option to create one on your own.

In theory you could make your own dataset for Battlescribe. No idea how hard it is to edit those, but the core of army creation had not changed that much. Mostly just more options these days. Pare all those back, and you return to 3rd.