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2022/03/07 23:20:04
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
someone on here said there was a relic or wt that allowed to subtract or add 1 to a strand of fate roll. I can't find that anywhere, though. Does this exist?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyranid Horde wrote: Hail of Doom, Webway Warriors 10CP
Asurmen 150
Farseer, Faolchu’s Wing, Fate’s Messenger (-1CP) Guide, Fortune 90
Farseer Skyrunner, Seer of the Shifting Vector, Doom, Will 120
I'm giving his list a go for a practise game in the league that's currently running in my area. Hoping Hail of Doom puts in the work alongside Webway Warriors.
The list is a bit rough at the moment, I'd love a Guardian Bomb but troop tax is troop tax so may consider going for a Patrol and the Elite detachment to achieve that and squeeze in 10 more Avengers in the place of something else.
Keeping things cheap and cheerful for the most part, Asurmen is there for ObSec Avengers while I have a Farseer with Will to grant another unit ObSec and maintain morale. Hoping a list like this works out, I think it would be a tonne of fun to have lots of auto wounding shuriken cats and cannons.
The Exarch relics are there for fun mainly, and could realistically save the CP for something more valuable.
this is very close to what I run off of ulthwe.
Automatically Appended Next Post: eh, so vipers can't swop their underslung catapults to canons now? thats silly.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/08 23:37:31
2022/03/10 13:16:51
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
I modified my initial list that both had scorpions and firedragons and a much bigger dam output to focus more on mobility and scoring. So I ran this yesterday and completely dominated the table
I had 6 avengers with obsec in each falcon. Cheaper, super annoying and good for snatching objectives. Between bladestorm and an auto six for battle focus I found that they can be equally good for clearing objectives, grabbing objectives or delivering a hi intensity burst of dam and then getting out of the way.
the build is optimized for strands and rolls 7d, keeps 5 while rerooling 2. Anyone who says this mechanic is so-so hasn't really felt it in game, id say. It is bonkers. with Ulthwe it grants so much defense as all your stuff has 6++. an example: I threw my wave serpent up the field t1 as I had rolled into 3 auto saves with strands. the ten banshees inside were relatively safe and the next turn I could dominate that flank with their advance and charge threat.
i was afraid the list would lack antitank as I only have like 5-6 high str d3+3 attacks and no super mandiblasters to MW them to death, but it was no problem at all.
Baharatoh was amazing, the warp spiders and hawks too. Felt I had tools for everything. Will of Asyryan is so good with the morale thing too. I couldn't decide what to put on the hawks, though, maybe the cancel actions one?
either way, I got 14 on engage and maxed out RnD and got 13 on wrath of khaine no problem. Last game I had a hard time getting the melee part of WoK, but baharoth was a perfect addition for mopping up remaining marines and similar stuff each turn (he counts an aspect warrior so I presume thats legal). That said, 6spears are amazing for this too, as they function well in both phases.
the banshees underperformed in my last game and I was really torn on whether to take them over the scorpions. I went for banshees (as I wanted mobility and synergy with the wave serpent and strands to keep it alive) and did everything possible to avoid armor of russ as it caused trouble for them last time. they charged 2 outriders and ended up in one of those situations where space wolves kan just heroically into everything. the girls had to tag Ragnar to take away his fight first, and then when they killed him, he fought on death with the strat and he murdered 4 (the mirrosword exarch took out the two doomed bikes on her own). then a wulfen dread that had heroically'ed 6 with the strat took out a few more. Next turn the survivors actually killed the dread too. so he spent 3 cp and lost 2 outriders, Ragnar and the dread.
I thought I would miss the two hardhitters from my first game (scorps, dragons) but honestly, I didnt. This spacewolf list ran 3 dreadnaughts and a war suit. I didn't get the war suit but managed to kill the deads. maybe vs tougher armor ill miss a stronger output. this is still work in progress but im vey happy so far.
kingheff wrote: Awesome, glad the game went well. One slight issue is that you can only have each exarch power once, so only one, not three squads of avengers can get obsec.
omg. obviously! thanks for pointing that out. just like you can only put super mandis on one quad of scorpions. dunno why I didn't catch that on DAs. thats a huge blow for MSU avengers. which I love as a concept. argh.
either way, it doesn't really hurt his list too much.
I love Asurmen, but simply cant fit him. I need 2 farseers for sure for strands. Could try to swop him in for baharoth but i doubt he will match him. But maybe.
3922/03/10 21:19:10
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
War Walkers [15 PL, 225pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
++ Total: [108 PL, 10CP, 2,002pts] ++
its more of a shooty build but not focused around indirect fire. Instead Im going for fewer shots with hi strength and high damage. there are several reasons for this but the main one is strands of fate. this list, like my previous, rolls 7d and keeps 5 with 2 rerolls. There are 8-9 lance shots per turn plus either 4 or 6d3 prism shots and two chances at the vectored/linked fire combo. On top of that we have my old favorites; 3x war walkers. I know they are probably not as good now and maybe a bit overcosted, but I find they are one of our finest sorces of herd control. They throw 6d6 s4ap1 shots at stuff. even with out jinx thats decent and with jinx not much light to medium infantry can stand against that. Also, with custodes (I really fear that matchup) going to 4++ I feel these could really be something vs their infantry. wounding on 5s is brutal, though. anyways. 6 krak missiles could come in handy too. These could be something else. if I owned a lynx, that would fit really well.
Yes, I know 2x wraith lords seem silly, but they are core. so the autarch babysits them. He has the super bike so can go anywhere to buff. hell be a late game melee threat and be able top snatch weak objectives with obsec maybe.
and, actually, I wouldn't even say, the list is completely without play when it comes to challenging the board. those six jet bikes shoot and fight pretty well. They'll be max buffed mostly with -1 to hit 2+ 4++ 5+++. I will play them conservatively aiming for objective clearing after the back line has done its things. Maybe even just have them police my side of the midfield. idk. ill have to test to see what their exact role will be.they could also just go hard at something to delete it and trade slowly over a few turns with the defensive buffs. in my last game (with the other list) the six bikes rammed up the middle and just smashed stuff and then died funny thing was, that the 5 attack 4w exarch survived and didn't break due to will of Assyryan. he was a solo beast deep in the enemy backfield after that.
on top of that we have 6 obsec avengers too. They can be put into the falcon (normally we want that in the back line, but still cool option to have) if a relevant t1 deep strike presents it self. the rest is 10 guardians and 5 rangers. I've found the black guardian strat really good with those guardians, and the rangers are rangers. oh, and hawks for scoring. maybe give them the harass power.
any thoughts?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/03/10 21:36:52
kingheff wrote: Awesome, glad the game went well. One slight issue is that you can only have each exarch power once, so only one, not three squads of avengers can get obsec.
omg. obviously! thanks for pointing that out. just like you can only put super mandis on one quad of scorpions. dunno why I didn't catch that on DAs. thats a huge blow for MSU avengers. which I love as a concept. argh.
either way, it doesn't really hurt his list too much.
Autosix with matcheless agility.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Eldrad Can have will of Asyryan, guide and fortune, right?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 17:11:59
2022/03/11 20:17:24
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
War Walkers [15 PL, 225pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
++ Total: [108 PL, 10CP, 2,002pts] ++
its more of a shooty build but not focused around indirect fire. Instead Im going for fewer shots with hi strength and high damage. there are several reasons for this but the main one is strands of fate. this list, like my previous, rolls 7d and keeps 5 with 2 rerolls. There are 8-9 lance shots per turn plus either 4 or 6d3 prism shots and two chances at the vectored/linked fire combo. On top of that we have my old favorites; 3x war walkers. I know they are probably not as good now and maybe a bit overcosted, but I find they are one of our finest sorces of herd control. They throw 6d6 s4ap1 shots at stuff. even with out jinx thats decent and with jinx not much light to medium infantry can stand against that. Also, with custodes (I really fear that matchup) going to 4++ I feel these could really be something vs their infantry. wounding on 5s is brutal, though. anyways. 6 krak missiles could come in handy too. These could be something else. if I owned a lynx, that would fit really well.
Yes, I know 2x wraith lords seem silly, but they are core. so the autarch babysits them. He has the super bike so can go anywhere to buff. hell be a late game melee threat and be able top snatch weak objectives with obsec maybe.
and, actually, I wouldn't even say, the list is completely without play when it comes to challenging the board. those six jet bikes shoot and fight pretty well. They'll be max buffed mostly with -1 to hit 2+ 4++ 5+++. I will play them conservatively aiming for objective clearing after the back line has done its things. Maybe even just have them police my side of the midfield. idk. ill have to test to see what their exact role will be.they could also just go hard at something to delete it and trade slowly over a few turns with the defensive buffs. in my last game (with the other list) the six bikes rammed up the middle and just smashed stuff and then died funny thing was, that the 5 attack 4w exarch survived and didn't break due to will of Assyryan. he was a solo beast deep in the enemy backfield after that.
on top of that we have 6 obsec avengers too. They can be put into the falcon (normally we want that in the back line, but still cool option to have) if a relevant t1 deep strike presents it self. the rest is 10 guardians and 5 rangers. I've found the black guardian strat really good with those guardians, and the rangers are rangers. oh, and hawks for scoring. maybe give them the harass power.
any thoughts?
bumping this. Sorry for spamming. would just love a few comments. last try. promise : )
ah yes, the lists not optimized at all.. its just a direction for a build. il tinker the bits down below 2k before I play, naturally.
Automatically Appended Next Post: my level? well, I dont go to tourneys but I follow the meta thoroughly and have a at least semi-competitive play group were we play serious games : )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/11 21:00:32
Hmm is noone digging the wraithlord at all? 140 for 2bright lances off of a mobile t8 body with -1dam. With ulthwe you’ll be tanking strand invulns on top. Could be something like 2 Shuriken kanons too at 120. They are Core so spells help Them and rerolls arr easier. .
2022/03/15 11:01:53
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
Argive wrote: All this talk of core wraithlords just made me creative juices flowing.
This is the list im looking to play for my first dex game. All my wraith boys are magnetised so I can use whatever loadout.
Probably needs some refinemnt. Also on battle scribe it doesnt seem to allow for a second warlord trait so the cp doesnt reflect.. so will be starting with 7.. not sure if this will be an issue.
I like it. would probably cut the firedragons, though. you have plenty of dam dealers, right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: no love for the prisms? I feel they could do work. I know they dont have rerolls, but between an autarch supplying 2 command rerolls, maybe a bieltan/ulthwe reroll and strands I think well be fine.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/15 11:05:55
2022/03/15 22:06:34
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
no love for the prisms? I feel they could do work. I know they dont have rerolls, but between an autarch supplying 2 command rerolls, maybe a bieltan/ulthwe reroll and strands I think well be fine.
They look really good on paper, but I always run out of points in my lists. I feel you need two to have access to linked fire, and with upgrades you're looking at 350 pts, that I'd rather spend on more aspects right now. I'm definitely tempted to run a mech ulthwé list some time though, just to see what that does. 2 prisms, 2 spinners, some wraithlords, and a falcon (maybe a lynx?) could put a good amount of hurt.
yeah, I haven't used them yet either. but I too have a strands heavy ulthwe mech'ish list that I desperately want to run.
Fire Prism [9 PL, 170pts]: Twin Shuriken Catapult, Vectored Engines
War Walkers [15 PL, 225pts]
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
. War Walker: Aeldari Missile Launcher, Aeldari Missile Launcher
++ Total: [111 PL, 9CP, 1,997pts] ++
the war walkers could be a lynx, but I dont own one. Could be a crimson hunter exarch too. hmm. idk if they are good now. or a falcon plus another squad of DA, actually. Just went with with WW for the 6d6 s4 -1 blast option for crowd control.
Automatically Appended Next Post: argh, I just realize that scorpions dont have deep strike innately now. Ive read a lot about the phantasm trick where you set them up super offensively and then, if you dont get first turn, put them deep strike with that. it never came up in my 2 games with scorpions but I figured that meant they had deep strike built in.
Does this mean, if you want to do that, you pay 2 cp for phantasm and then another cp to put them in normal reserves or use the strat? thats rather steep, id say. Or is that option (to put stuff in reserve) included in the phantasm strats price of 2 cp?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/15 22:16:39
All this talk of core wraithlords just made me creative juices flowing.
Wraithlords are pretty underwhelming during all the editions.
Too slow, too less damage output, to less dang for the bucks.
Considering a list got a good placing running two of them last weekend, you may need to change that statement! Core, -1D and the options they can take put them well within the realms of comparisons to Dreadnoughts. Access to a tough body that can benefit from the range of psychic powers on offer is nothing to sniff at, and the toughness and damage output really makes them worth killing and distracts from squishier units that you need to score points.
On that note (I swear I posted last night but it seems to have gone missing), here is a list that is an evolution from my last Webway Warriors/Hail of Doom list, using two Lords in place of War Walkers and some infantry. Went for a Vanguard and a Patrol to access extra psychic support and an additional elite, while taking a guardian bomb for some turn 3 shenanigans. Light on ObSec, but I do feel Eldar lists can shoot things off objectives much more efficiently now. The Night Spinner adds to that fun, and while two is optimal, I think one is a decent tech.
Webway Warriors benefits quite well with Phantasm allowing me to lift units like the Scorpions from Advanced Positions if I don't get turn one and also allows me to feed in new units for Engage and/or Nachmund. Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks will innately proc Webway Warriors so I think this is a pretty reasonable second pick after Hail of Doom.
The list is a wee bit strapped for CP, starting on 9 is fine but after Webway Strike and Phantasm, there isn't much space for strats other than Bladestorm, Lightning Fast and Martial Citizenry. Seer of the Shifting Vector might help gain one back and I think I may replace a power with Fateful Divergence for more utility.
Thoughts are welcome! I've been enjoying this kind of list over Ulthwe or Biel-Tan, but I know they are also strong options.
I really like this list, but I would lose web way warriors. its strong and all, but I simply dont see it kicking in often enough. or does it do work?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is my ulthwe strands list. I've tried working out a few lists. my first build leant into fire dragons in a falcon and scorpions doing phantasm shenanigans if they didn't get first. much more of and alpha list. this is more toned down in ralation to pure damage output, but it Plays the mission way better. It can harass with suppressive fire, will of Assyrian and stuff like that. the list is very resilient through 5+++ vs mw's, 6++ and heavy focus on strands. its good in the psychic phase and packs a mw machine in the doom seer to compensate for the lack of firepower compared to my first iteration.
my question here is; would it make sense to swop guide on eldrad for focus will? that way I could setup a super smite on a +2 every turn on the doom seer followed by executioner. I mean, theres really only one good guide target (or at least only one amazing one) in the list and thats the spears. also, focus will would make doom every turn a lot more reliable. He usually ends up casting three with the strat so I feel its ok to lean into focus will, maybe? guide is just so good, though.
btw this list performs very well. its well rounded, decent shooting, two very brutal melee threats and an amazing cp-economy. has speed too and scores very well.
(edited a thousand times for spelling)
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/03/17 21:53:29
Damn, Thanks a ton. Super good points. I want the Stones, though. Anything to manipulate those strands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: About strands: i feel that mechanic is being regarded as a somewhat random win more bonus. I dont agree. I feel its a decisive tool in so many clutch situations. Yeah, you dont have complete control over what you get. But you Can deffinetely manipulate the final result in a certain direction the list needs to be able to branch out every now and then and modify the strategy of a turn. and if your build is constructed with that in mind strands just makes the moves you do much more efficient. I feel the mechanic calls for all round generalist builds and makes that archetype (that i feel is often weaker than more fokused and even skewed lists) a bit stronger. The generalist build can see what strands it gets and then aim at solving the turns problems whit assets that fit those sixes. My build can do that. I have a few mobile charge threats that can benefit from adv/charge strands, strong Psykers that can benifit from those and some hard shots each turn that can make those hit and wound sixes count. And saves is what it’s all about. Those sixes win games.
I’m not saying it’s perfect. But it works and it’s fun to play. Makes you think
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/18 21:34:29
Have you guys heard Jack harpster from aow put together his list on YouTube? Such good analysis. He is going for the strands ulthwe archetype that i have also toyed with. And he actually ends up with something very similar to my list. Except for the indirect. I focus on bright lances instead. Also, i hadbt thought about using quicken to help with psychic secondaries. Love his approach to list building.
Yeah, fitting anti tank is surprisingly tough taking into consideration how many great data sheets we have.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw the way I read traveling players we can include a patrol of Harley’s and they get every special rule. Even luck dice? But when I read the luck dice rule it says “if every unit in your army has the Harley keyword” so it doesn’t work? What supersedes what?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/21 16:33:28
Sarigar wrote: -Saedeths.
-Traveling Players.
-Luck of Laughing God.No Luck Dice if taking detachment of Harlequins with a Craftworld detachment.
It is a bit wordy, but you get all the Harlequins rules minus Luck Dice from the three above areas to reference.
yup. makes sense. and they dont have strands obviously, so they will be pretty difficult to get rerolls for. what ever. I still like them. im not sure they do much, that CW units can't solve. that said, the trickery of combined CW and harley rules is something I need to study : )
has there been any succesful soup builds of off the new book yet? any obvious tech that I need to be aware of.
I’ve been thinking about how crazy a heavy shuriken build with hail of doom and probably masterful shots.
Auto wounding on sixes almost seem silly strong with that vollume of fire. Has any one here seen a list that goes all the way on that strategy?
Avengers, jet bikes, and a lot of other units seem just so strong with this. Even something like 3 warwalkers with six cannons seems at least remotely tasty.
Or am I overrating the mechanic? Might be. Haven’t tried it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/24 20:08:22
2022/03/26 21:06:24
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
Ok, guys so im playing a game vs necrons on monday. I've tinkered with two lists. one is a bit more shooty than the other, while the other is more generalist. They both have decent flexibility, though, and and lean into the strands mechanic.
btw: how do we feel about vipers with lances? the cheap versions are brilliant, obviously, but what about, say, 3 hyper mobile bright t5 lances zipping around for 55 points each? they become juicy targets but im not sure thats a bad thing per se.
2022/03/27 14:50:15
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
this is the list I wanted to try them out for. It leans heavily into strands and fast attack. so I was thinking few hard attacks fit that bill. but I think downgrading them to scatter and selling a scorpion to get me a warlock for jinx is stil better.
Automatically Appended Next Post: one thing I've been exploring lately in list building is going several detachments, typically either 2x patrol for the perfect number of HQ or patrol/outrider to get those juicy fast attack slots. this means only good units. troop tax is typically 1 or 2 units of rangers and thats it.
And eventhough I am winning (Sadly I am the strongest player in my playgroup) I seriously feel that I miss some throwaway units for screening and to a lesser degree action monkeying.
Especially as I am playing ulthwe presently I would love a unit of ten guardian defenders (honestly I love 2 of those. yeah, I know its embarrassing to admit) just for board presence and backfield stuff. with the +1 strat they can do a bit of work. Also just to keep the backfield caster (eldrad usually) safe. They can even function as a decent target for forewarned if something drops down in my backfield.
when playing pure power units that have to be used with great precision, I often end up in situations where I have to play suboptimal positioning as there is no-one to act for look out sir, scoring or screening.
am I the only one who feels like this? or are throw aways just not something we do any more?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/27 15:51:34
yup. Problem with 2x5 avengers for RnD is that you fail on a six which is just.. horrible when it happens. I run 6x for that reason. especially good if I run a falcon for them. And I often do to save the CP. 2 squads is a bit steep on the elites slot account, imo. but I have don so and they do sort of solve the problem, im addressing. Thing is, they are almost too good for the job : )
Also, taking ROD and Engage for 2 of my secondaries. Not sure if dropping the Lances off the Serpents is worth it for To The Last? Is Wrath of Khaine worth the 3rd secondary?
I feel this list is an absolute Beast. Its very close to one of my ulthwe builds. I just have a falcon and 2x prism instead of spinners. Feel your choice is better.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/29 19:53:39
what is you guys normal way of deploying hawks and baharoth if there is no indirect. on the table or in deep strike? not being able to take off after deeping in is a little limiting, Imo.
Same actually goes for warp spiders, I guess. that is how it works, right? No battle focus move in the turn they enter from reserves.
2022/03/31 20:43:36
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
so I played a game vs orgs today. He played the speed freaks list with a dakka jet and the airplane that shoots a 2d6 s8 d3+d shots : /
i was testing the AoW style of playing craft worlds with only 2x scouts as throw aways. I won the game by 2 points and I feel the matchup exposed some of the archetypes potential weaknesses. At least in my hands.
my list is:
Spoiler:
2x ultwhe patrol
eldrad, will, guide, fortune
farseer on bike, weeping stones, doom, exe
Baharoth
Autarch on bike, sunstorm, cp regen
2x5 scouts
Wraithlord, 2x scatter, glaive
Wraithlord, 2x BL 2x warlock skyrunners, both with jinx/protect, one with helm and ghost walk.
6x scorpions
6x dire avengers with stand firm
7x hawks with plume and -1 to hit.
3x spears, paragon, heartstrike
3x spears, expert lancers
6x spiders, extra spinner
2x falcon, scatter, catapults
the list is super lethal with strong threats in several phases. Good rerolls and a lot of help from strands. It is optimized for TTL (eldrad; baha, hawks) and easily scores max on most of the mobility oriented secondaries. It can play actions too with avengers and will. for anti tank I have tinkered with this minimal package, and I think it works. the list only has 6 lance shoots (it used to be 8 but I swopped the 2xbrighlances for scatter, scatter, glaive on the second WL to satisfy TTL) per turn, but it can really make the best of them. First off, the two falcons can often get a shot on most stuff as they can pop down from deep strike anywhere. Sunstorm autarch and the BL wraith lord are a pretty mobile team too. Between the autarch giving the WL reroll 1s, strands, the ultwhe reroll to wound and the option to use command reroll twice you'll almost hit and wound on all six shots vs most stuff up to t7 and even t8 is almost the same with pulse lasers being s9.
I needed to clear his 3 squid buggys early and a popped 2 on t1. sadly, I rolled double 1 on dam the next turn and had the last buggy live with one before my falcons evaporated. so it actually lived til t5. the BLWL was bonkers from my backline, though, and sniped 3 warbikes, the bike boss and chipped a chunk off a dakkajet before the game was over. Speaking of flyers, the thing that almost cost me the game was, that the two flyers just flew 60 inches to my backline (we were playing end to end) around my screens. i tried to avoid it, but it was simply not possible to wrap all of my HQs sufficiently. So, yeah, that was brutal. Cost me both warlocks (he even played abhor) and a lot of flexibility from that point on. He didn't even roll super hot. He had the chance to wipe 3 spears too with the other plane, and would have done so, was it not for 4x 4++ saves in a row by me AND 3 strand saves on top. That sequence was completely bonkers. Had they been wiped t1 I think I would have lost the game.
The list is very hard to play (for me at least) as you can't really trade badly at any point. And all your units are important, so you have to be a surgeon and absolutely not lose 2 psykers t1 : )
but it so cool. it has all the good tech and all the tricks, if you need them; auto charge for scorpions out of deep strike, mortal wound insanity, most of the good spells, cp regen (I start very low, though due to all the tech), objective control through sunstorm and baharoth, amazing strands, a fair amount of obsec, good shooting and good melee. And amazing movability.
I know you probably wonder why I have no indirect. The falcons should probably be night spinners. I will test that, obviously, but actually I just didn't miss it. I had tons of targets, and the ones I HAD to dig out of cover, the buggies in this game, were decimated. I almost succeeded in wiping them by t2, and im not sure the spinners would have solved that problem better than the falcons did. But, yeah. They are amazing.
the thing I really missed was 2x 10 guardians to set up the perimeter and slow things down a bit..
thanks for reading.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/31 20:49:10
Leth wrote: I wonder where this hatred of screens has come from in peoples lists? Seems like the default to me
Yeah, I agree. but maybe the paradigm for our army has really changed in that regard. I won't be the one to say it has, but it seems like people play very lethal glascanonny lists that exploit the best from the book. I just barely managed to go through a game vs orks with such a build. it takes a lot of precision and I dont know how I would do against top tier factions that punish every misstep even more than the orks do.
Can i ask how you guys generally start your Hawks, baharoth and Spiders? They cant teleport/2d6 focus after coming in from deepstrike, so prefereably they should start on the table. On the other hand, deep striking is good. And these are still fairly frail units if the get caught on the wrong foot. what’s your general plan with these three key units?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/03 22:10:23
Scoundrel80 wrote: Can i ask how you guys generally start your Hawks, baharoth and Spiders? They cant teleport/2d6 focus after coming in from deepstrike, so prefereably they should start on the table. On the other hand, deep striking is good. And these are still fairly frail units if the get caught on the wrong foot. what’s your general plan with these three key units?
Hawks/Baharroth are so safe, indirect fire is the only thing you need too worry about.
I plan on running the 10 Hawk squad with Exarch Relic/-1 too hit upgrade with Baharroth.
I own 30 warp spiders and am exited too use them! Even though there model is old as the old ones.
Sadly, I agree with you, DS warp spider units is a horrible idea because they cant 2D6 Battle focus too safety. I have been rocking 1 large group of 9 + Exarch, with the Redeploy after shooting. This gives me 2 solid rounds with them. after that they are objective monkeys. You could rock a full squad with the +1 shots upgrade from DS, and prey they wipe out any Threats near them in 1 turn.
Charging with them is also not a horrid idea, in small groups the Exarch attacks 5 times with power blades.
In Terms of speed bumps for the new book. All im personally seeing is AoK with fortune, Wraithlords/Wraithguard with fortune and -1 too be shot. Anything else just seems like it would die in 1 turn if it was not in a wave serpent.
Small groups of rangers that just flat out die, but might buy you a turn of shooting kinda work. Im honestly building 2k lists with no Troops, and just eating the CP loss. We need too bring as many useful models as possible.
Im also going too play with all the Phoenix lords. I can feel it in my bones each one can last more than 2 turns if you rebirth them, i just need to find the right ones. atm leaning towards Baharroth obv and Jain Zar.
Asurmans 3++ is cool, but its hard too get him into mele, without spamming some wave serpents or a Falcon. Again, that costs points, points that CWE simply do not have too spare.
I agree on the troops thing in theory but maybe not so much in practicality. I have missed troops so much in the games I've played without them. So I've done a 180 on that archetype where every unit is good. My latest list Is a brigade (!) and runs 2x5 scouts and 4x10 guardians. Boom. it puts guardians and scouts on every objective within reach and screens the back field out so hard that you can really control you opponents movement to a certain degree. 3 falcons with da, scorpions and banshees drop down to delete important stuff so your opponent has to deal with that while you setup obsec on points. Fast attack is 7 hawks, 6 spiders, 4 spears. Oh, and you get access to the 4 HQ you need (5 actually) while retaining all CP.
Its work in progress, but I think obsec spam has merit. or at least it has to be explored : )
If I owned the models for 6x5 scouts I'd try that and save 120 points. Not sure its better, though. those guardians hit on 2+ with the ulthwe strat, have baby transhuman, can get reroll ones by them selves and are not ridiculously overcosted imo. And we need the screens they provide, I think.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/04/04 12:37:05
the list needs to be able to branch out every now and then and modify the strategy of a turn. and if your build is constructed with that in mind strands just makes the moves you do much more efficient. I feel the mechanic calls for all round generalist builds and makes that archetype (that i feel is often weaker than more fokused and even skewed lists) a bit stronger. The generalist build can see what strands it gets and then aim at solving the turns problems whit assets that fit those sixes. My build can do that. I have a few mobile charge threats that can benefit from adv/charge strands, strong Psykers that can benifit from those and some hard shots each turn that can make those hit and wound sixes count. And saves is what it’s all about. Those sixes win games.
