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I've had three games so far, and have lost two out of three so far, all competitive games against some meaty lists. I tried out Ulthwe and Biel-Tan, and so far I am leaning on the fact that Ulthwe's relic to have undeniable tests as the reason it is the better of the two, although Biel-Tan is very strong and has more synergies involved.
I personally don't enjoy Strands of Fate, it is a win more mechanic and a feels bad one at the same time, both for my opponent and me if my dice don't go the right way. In addition, the loss of innate rerolls on psychic tests is a pain and with +1 to cast being very rare, if you face something like Grey Knights like I did, you literally lose.
I am playing tomorrow, will throw up a list soon so folks can have a look.
I've had three games so far, and have lost two out of three so far, all competitive games against some meaty lists. I tried out Ulthwe and Biel-Tan, and so far I am leaning on the fact that Ulthwe's relic to have undeniable tests as the reason it is the better of the two, although Biel-Tan is very strong and has more synergies involved.
I personally don't enjoy Strands of Fate, it is a win more mechanic and a feels bad one at the same time, both for my opponent and me if my dice don't go the right way. In addition, the loss of innate rerolls on psychic tests is a pain and with +1 to cast being very rare, if you face something like Grey Knights like I did, you literally lose.
I am playing tomorrow, will throw up a list soon so folks can have a look.
To be honest this humbles me a little bit - glad to hear we're not winning every game.
I have a friend who plays a competitive GK list and i'd beaten him a few times with my 8th ed eldar book (admittedly not often).
The key with them I find is killing the squishier units quickly. Everybody is quick to aim everything at the dreadknights but actually strike squads and such are just as capable of casting smite and dealing real damage in combat. Clear the table of as much psychic potential as quickly possible and then you can focus fire on the bigger ones after. Ulthwe would do well against them to shield from mortals too.
Yes don't get me wrong, I think GK are beatable and I think part of the loss was because it was a refined comp list against a day one codex with no refinement, but the new codex having 18" range on most psychic powers is very painful against them with most units having a deny, and leaning on Strands of Fate to get undeniable 9s isn't good game design imo.
Definitely will be an army to contest GK at some point, I am just not sure what the best build for competitive play is yet and I don't think they're anywhere on a par with Tau, Custodes or even GK.
The new Codex appears to be about as good as the 6th edition Codex was, relative to other armies.
Played against Biel Tan with Deathwatch last week. Won the game, but not by much. They were on 4 of 5 objectives turn 1 and maxed most of their secondaries. Had a couple turns where I wasn't able to destroy a single model.
The game came down to me making a 9" charge and killing a character turn 5. It worked, but the odds were heavily in their favor. My opponent had only played a couple games with the new Codex before, this only gets worse.
I've some thougts on the competitvly of pure craftworlds in the biggest tournaments, I mean there's a lot of nice rules and I see everything (well, reapers apart sigh) playable, but the points are hight, every units is good on their own but to put an army together is not easy, this means that craftworlds will Need an expert hand to compete, to me this Is nice because I love this kind of army I think its better to have a codex strong but difficult to play instead of an " spam the strongest unit, then max out the second one and go like this till 2000 points".
But maybe I'm wrong and this Is the end of the world codex
Hearing lots of people complain about Dires moving to Elites because it crowds the Elite slot.
I don't think this is the issue - The issue is the limited /expensive options for troop slots.
3 guardian blobs is 270 point minimum and i'm not super keen on the idea of running lots of rangers.
They really should have set a minimum unit size of 5 for Guardians (this is the size for Drukhari Kabs) as it would solve the whole thing.
My local gaming circle largely plays 1k games and I have to say, I think i'm still going to struggle a little!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Phoenix Lord wrote: I've some thougts on the competitvly of pure craftworlds in the biggest tournaments, I mean there's a lot of nice rules and I see everything (well, reapers apart sigh) playable, but the points are hight, every units is good on their own but to put an army together is not easy, this means that craftworlds will Need an expert hand to compete, to me this Is nice because I love this kind of army I think its better to have a codex strong but difficult to play instead of an " spam the strongest unit, then max out the second one and go like this till 2000 points".
But maybe I'm wrong and this Is the end of the world codex
Absolutely. Everything has taken a points bump which is normal and expected, but when you then have to pay for exarch powers on top, several units become too expensive for what they are.
I am struggling to write a list at the moment, but I think it will get easier with a few games.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/07 16:18:26
Getting the right Psyker set up seems key. Just taking a couple of wizards and hoping they pass their tests isn't reliable enough.
The most minimalist good option I can see is:
Ulthwe Farseer Skyrunner, with the Ulthwe Relic (Focus Will as the extra power), and two of Guide/Doom/Will of Ass. Spening a CP every turn for 3 casts, starting with Focus Will.
Focus Will goes off on a 5 thanks to the Ulthwe +1, then the other two powers get a +2. If you have a fate dice you can make one of these powers a minimum 9 to be undeniable, and only need a 2+ on the dice to get the range bonus.
2022/03/07 17:27:30
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
I don't think this is the issue - The issue is the limited /expensive options for troop slots.
3 guardian blobs is 270 point minimum and i'm not super keen on the idea of running lots of rangers.
They really should have set a minimum unit size of 5 for Guardians (this is the size for Drukhari Kabs) as it would solve the whole thing.
Troop tax is an issue if you field a battalion.
Rangers can occupy the backfield and perform actions.
20 Guardians can be a shock-and-awe unit but at smaller tables its not easy to find a spot for deep-striking them.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Going to lean more into elites with putting obsec trait on Avengers and will of asuryan on large axe guard. Granted, denials are a thing. May add 1 patrol for a single ranger unit or just add corsairs to the vanguard
I'm sad that the Autarch Skyrunner still doesn't have the option to take a Lance AND a gun (fusion or Reaper launcher), but with Relics and WL traits and being cheapish, there's enough to make him fun at least.
Falcons are back on the menu, which I'm happy for. I started in 4th/5th and it feels like Falcons haven't been good since then.
It's also nice to see Fire Dragons don't have to be within half range to get the extra damage.
5 Dragons with a Blazing Fury Exarch could be a nice T1 drop from a Falcon.
I played my first game over the weekend against Drukhari. I was 0-3 against this player with his Drukhari and after this game, I was 0-4. However, the previous games were really decided on turn 3 while this game came down to turn 5. This was a very nice change of pace.
I ran a Far Flung Craftworld consisting of Hunters of Ancient Relics and Webway Warriors. We played GT 2022 Strikeforce Mission 23 (2000 point game). Hunters of Ancient Relics provded extremely useful, while Webway Warriors was interesting, but undecided on its utility.
The design of the codex really felt like it wants a player to put multiple units in reserves (of various capacities). I did utilize reserves quite a bit and felt like I had better board control. Previous games vs my Drukhari opponent had me consistently pushed into a corner and never could quite keep Drukhari at arms length.
So many units felt improved and now in line with 9th edition. The one challenge, if you want to call it that, was the sheer number of dice I rolled. It's a good problem to have, I suppose, but I definiitely will need to get a more organized with dice to no slow the game down. Hawks, Guardians, Spiders, Avengers, and Spectres all with large numbers of dice; not a problem, but again, slowed my game down a bit.
I did like the Strands of Fate, but it did not feel like something I could preplan for. Despite rolling 6 dice and getting to reroll one dice due to having a Farseer, I still did not get a Charge roll dice on turn 1 and had to pray I rolled a 9 on the charge. Strands is nice, but definitely something I should not plan on having and look at it as a bonus. However, I did have multiple occasions during the game where the automatic 6 for a saving throw was clutch.
Overall, I'm looking forward to getting many more games in. This book appears to have a lot of depth and I've got a feeling we will be seeing new an interesting builds for many more months.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
2022/03/07 23:20:04
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
I thought it would be interesting to see how far you could take Mind War. Mindwar (WC 7) is 1d6 + Farseer Leadership vs 1d6 + Enemy character Leadership (Roll 2d3 if you get a 10+ on the Psychic test). It deals Mortal Wounds equal to the difference. Let's assume the enemy characters is Ld 9.
So a Farseer is default Leadership 9.
Custom Craftworld - Elite Citizenry gives +1Ld & Reroll Hit
Runes of Battle Embolden (WC 7) Blessing - +2 Ld and Fight First
Runes of Battle Horrify (WC 7) Malediction -2 Ld and Fight Last.
Hemlock Wraithfighter - Mindshock Pods - 12" Aura for -2 Ld
So assuming all these powers go off and the Wraithfighter is in range we've got:
If they roll the same then we've got a difference of 7, yielding 7 MW. If the Farseer lucks into a 6 and the opponent only a 3 then we're looking at 10 MW. If the Farseer rolls a 1 and the opponent a 6 then it's only 2 MW. Not too bad, but requires a decent amount of setup, with a Warlock to embolden the Farseer, and an expensive Hemlock to park near the enemy character and not get denied. I think I might give it a try my next game.
2022/03/08 03:33:24
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
The Red Hobbit wrote: I thought it would be interesting to see how far you could take Mind War. Mindwar (WC 7) is 1d6 + Farseer Leadership vs 1d6 + Enemy character Leadership (Roll 2d3 if you get a 10+ on the Psychic test). It deals Mortal Wounds equal to the difference. Let's assume the enemy characters is Ld 9.
So a Farseer is default Leadership 9.
Custom Craftworld - Elite Citizenry gives +1Ld & Reroll Hit
Runes of Battle Embolden (WC 7) Blessing - +2 Ld and Fight First
Runes of Battle Horrify (WC 7) Malediction -2 Ld and Fight Last.
Hemlock Wraithfighter - Mindshock Pods - 12" Aura for -2 Ld
So assuming all these powers go off and the Wraithfighter is in range we've got:
If they roll the same then we've got a difference of 7, yielding 7 MW. If the Farseer lucks into a 6 and the opponent only a 3 then we're looking at 10 MW. If the Farseer rolls a 1 and the opponent a 6 then it's only 2 MW. Not too bad, but requires a decent amount of setup, with a Warlock to embolden the Farseer, and an expensive Hemlock to park near the enemy character and not get denied. I think I might give it a try my next game.
What about +1 leadership from being near the new warp gate?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/08 03:33:57
wuestenfux wrote: Not clear at this point whether Eldar becomes a real contender when compared with Tau and Custodes.
Don't think they will. The army is too fragile, and too expensive. Any losses hurt us a lot. It's also a more challenging army to play than say Custodes, so brain drain will be a thing for tournaments, which will likely limit the draw for tournament players.
Overall, the book feels really good. All units feel like they have a place, and it 'feels' like an Eldar army should play. Strands of Fate is fun, but I don't know how I'm going to feel about this long term. It's not fun for the opponent, and if you don't get the dice you need, it also feels bad for the Eldar player. On the other hand, if you get all the dice you need, it can be very oppressing to pull long range charges, make all your crucial saves, etc.
2022/03/08 17:02:22
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
Hello to all my fellow Autarch's. Here's my first attempt at a competitive list. Forgive the points and formatting, PC battlescribe is a bit patchy so some tweaks might be needed for points. Plan is to webway the dragons and strategic reserve the Avengers. Scorpions naturally deepstriking and rangers doing initial screening. So just the vehicles, rangers and characters starting on the board. I'd probably spring for the extra 4" range on the dragons but, like I haven't exactly worked out the points but I think they're roughly right. Night spinners are incredible and the vectored engines should allow the hornets to get a couple of rounds of shooting via battle focus. Avengers, I think, are pretty great. Being able to action whilst also shooting so well means they're well worth the points. Between them, the spinners and the Scorpions they should clear out infantry pretty efficiently. Dragons aren't my first choice for anti tank but I wanted to make the spinners my to the last.
Feedback appreciated.
I'm giving his list a go for a practise game in the league that's currently running in my area. Hoping Hail of Doom puts in the work alongside Webway Warriors.
The list is a bit rough at the moment, I'd love a Guardian Bomb but troop tax is troop tax so may consider going for a Patrol and the Elite detachment to achieve that and squeeze in 10 more Avengers in the place of something else.
Keeping things cheap and cheerful for the most part, Asurmen is there for ObSec Avengers while I have a Farseer with Will to grant another unit ObSec and maintain morale. Hoping a list like this works out, I think it would be a tonne of fun to have lots of auto wounding shuriken cats and cannons.
The Exarch relics are there for fun mainly, and could realistically save the CP for something more valuable.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/08 17:05:41
I think the book is pretty great overall, with excellent internal balance.
I don't think we can compete with Custodes, though it is possible maybe...
T'au, absolutely no way. Their offence is about the same as ours (excellent) but their defence through crisis suits etc is so far beyond ours! We're a glass cannon, they're a Adamantium cannon! But that's a problem for every army, not just ours, even Custodes are starting to struggle into them.
If you have the time and patience watch the Art of War in house RTT games that played over the last week. A quite different list to mine (though with some overlap) and it did very well, getting to the final! Beating GSC and Sisters on the way to getting dumped on by T'au in the final but even there they lost whilst getting the most points so that's the tiniest crumb of comfort I guess...
2022/03/08 19:02:32
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
kingheff wrote: Hello to all my fellow Autarch's. Here's my first attempt at a competitive list. Forgive the points and formatting, PC battlescribe is a bit patchy so some tweaks might be needed for points. Plan is to webway the dragons and strategic reserve the Avengers. Scorpions naturally deepstriking and rangers doing initial screening. So just the vehicles, rangers and characters starting on the board. I'd probably spring for the extra 4" range on the dragons but, like I haven't exactly worked out the points but I think they're roughly right. Night spinners are incredible and the vectored engines should allow the hornets to get a couple of rounds of shooting via battle focus. Avengers, I think, are pretty great. Being able to action whilst also shooting so well means they're well worth the points. Between them, the spinners and the Scorpions they should clear out infantry pretty efficiently. Dragons aren't my first choice for anti tank but I wanted to make the spinners my to the last.
Feedback appreciated.
Pretty sure your list is from last book and does not correlate with the new one. The Exarch powers cannot be duplicated units and there is no such "Battle Fortune" Exarch power for Avengers.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As an add on....
Damned Warp Spiders look good ruleswise, but no new plastic models. We have 2 plastic warp jump generators on models now (autarch and corsair unit) but no clue how long it will be before we get a plastic spider unit. I don't want to buy resin so wondering if I can kitbash something short term. Frustrating!!!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/08 19:04:54
2022/03/08 19:43:09
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
kingheff wrote: Hello to all my fellow Autarch's. Here's my first attempt at a competitive list. Forgive the points and formatting, PC battlescribe is a bit patchy so some tweaks might be needed for points. Plan is to webway the dragons and strategic reserve the Avengers. Scorpions naturally deepstriking and rangers doing initial screening. So just the vehicles, rangers and characters starting on the board. I'd probably spring for the extra 4" range on the dragons but, like I haven't exactly worked out the points but I think they're roughly right. Night spinners are incredible and the vectored engines should allow the hornets to get a couple of rounds of shooting via battle focus. Avengers, I think, are pretty great. Being able to action whilst also shooting so well means they're well worth the points. Between them, the spinners and the Scorpions they should clear out infantry pretty efficiently. Dragons aren't my first choice for anti tank but I wanted to make the spinners my to the last.
Feedback appreciated.
Pretty sure your list is from last book and does not correlate with the new one. The Exarch powers cannot be duplicated units and there is no such "Battle Fortune" Exarch power for Avengers.
Like I said, the desktop version is quite weird at the moment but I didn't want to try and do the post on my phone. I wrote the list on the phone app but even that's got errors like fire dragons being 5pl when they're six now. None of the exarchs have powers, it's just errors on the data sheets.
2022/03/08 21:56:23
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
Welcome back kingheff; it's been awhile since Ive seen you post on Aeldari.
I've only gotten a single game in so far, but the point values as they are, I'm unsure I'd put extras on units like the Nightspinners. I lost one out of two in my game, but not until turn 4 (terrain being a signficant factor).
Dire Avengers are fantastic. I ran a unit of 8 + 1 Exarch with dual Catapults (30 shots). I did pay the extra points for the Exarch that allowed them to become Objective Secured, which was fairly useful.
Striking Scorpions have Advanced Positions: they start the game on the board up to 9" away from enemy units and/or enemy deployment zones (no deep striking). However, using them to aggressively set up, then utilize Phantasm if you need to get them into a better/safer position can be very solid.
I was not nearly as familiar with all the stratagems, and I ended up with a lot more CP throughout the game than I'm accustomed to. However, I did not feel like I was drastically missing something. Between the unit improvements and Strands of Fate, Stratagems feel like an nicety rather than a near auto take in order to even compete.
I'm still on the fense with Dragons. They still feel like a one shot and done type unit. I think I can get better mileage out of other units, even though they do less damage per turn (but may last longer).
I definitely need to get more games in to have a more informed opinion. Let us know how your game(s) fare.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
someone on here said there was a relic or wt that allowed to subtract or add 1 to a strand of fate roll. I can't find that anywhere, though. Does this exist?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyranid Horde wrote: Hail of Doom, Webway Warriors 10CP
Asurmen 150
Farseer, Faolchu’s Wing, Fate’s Messenger (-1CP) Guide, Fortune 90
Farseer Skyrunner, Seer of the Shifting Vector, Doom, Will 120
I'm giving his list a go for a practise game in the league that's currently running in my area. Hoping Hail of Doom puts in the work alongside Webway Warriors.
The list is a bit rough at the moment, I'd love a Guardian Bomb but troop tax is troop tax so may consider going for a Patrol and the Elite detachment to achieve that and squeeze in 10 more Avengers in the place of something else.
Keeping things cheap and cheerful for the most part, Asurmen is there for ObSec Avengers while I have a Farseer with Will to grant another unit ObSec and maintain morale. Hoping a list like this works out, I think it would be a tonne of fun to have lots of auto wounding shuriken cats and cannons.
The Exarch relics are there for fun mainly, and could realistically save the CP for something more valuable.
this is very close to what I run off of ulthwe.
Automatically Appended Next Post: eh, so vipers can't swop their underslung catapults to canons now? thats silly.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/08 23:37:31
Scoundrel80 wrote: someone on here said there was a relic or wt that allowed to subtract or add 1 to a strand of fate roll. I can't find that anywhere, though. Does this exist?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tyranid Horde wrote: Hail of Doom, Webway Warriors 10CP
Asurmen 150
Farseer, Faolchu’s Wing, Fate’s Messenger (-1CP) Guide, Fortune 90
Farseer Skyrunner, Seer of the Shifting Vector, Doom, Will 120
I'm giving his list a go for a practise game in the league that's currently running in my area. Hoping Hail of Doom puts in the work alongside Webway Warriors.
The list is a bit rough at the moment, I'd love a Guardian Bomb but troop tax is troop tax so may consider going for a Patrol and the Elite detachment to achieve that and squeeze in 10 more Avengers in the place of something else.
Keeping things cheap and cheerful for the most part, Asurmen is there for ObSec Avengers while I have a Farseer with Will to grant another unit ObSec and maintain morale. Hoping a list like this works out, I think it would be a tonne of fun to have lots of auto wounding shuriken cats and cannons.
The Exarch relics are there for fun mainly, and could realistically save the CP for something more valuable.
this is very close to what I run off of ulthwe.
Automatically Appended Next Post: eh, so vipers can't swop their underslung catapults to canons now? thats silly.
I recommend giving the list a go with the custom traits, it seems light on psykers but you can do a lot with them because the shurikens catapults are so powerful against anything above T5. The list put in work and I was very pleased with the outcome. Lots of room to play cagey and drop units as needed. Think I will try a Patrol and the Elites detachment to lean on more Shuriken and scrap the rangers. Honestly had a tonne of fun with the list and Asurmen was a great beatstick.
Mulled over my Mind War thoughts above and here's the 2000pt list I put together to try it out. Since I'm putting a lot of effort into making Mind War work as a character hunter I decided to make the rest of the list simple and straightforward trying to bury the enemy in monoedge shurikens with Hail of Doom. Battalion isn't necessary for this Mind War experiment, but I figure I'd give it a try and see how painful the 3x Guardian troop tax will feel during play.
1980pts Far Flung Craftworld (Elite Citizenry, Hail of Doom)
HQ Farseer w/ Singing Spear (95)
Warlord - Seer of the Shifting Vector. Relic: Weeping Stones. Powers: Mind War, Fortune
Avatar of Khaine (270)
Asurmen (150)
No Force Org
Warlock 40
Troops
3x 10 Guardians (270)
Elites
10 Dire Avengers. Exarchs have twin catapults. This one has Defensive Stance (140)
10 Dire Avengers (120)
Avatar is a great distraction to walk up the field with the Guardians. Wave Serpents will be transporting DAs, Asurmen, Farseer & Warlock. Support weapons for backfield support and Hemlocks to push forward and Mindshock pods enemy characters. I've got 20pts left, I could transform the lone Warlock into a council to use the rest of the points or I could give Shredding Fire to my other Exarch and shave off 5pts from the Farseer.
After all that I still need to decide on Psychic powers for the Warlock. Protect isn't what it used to be.
So looking over the Support Weapons and I'm actually kind of interested in running 3 with Vibro Cannons. If all 3 fire their 3d6 shots at the same target(non flyer), they auto hit and get +1 to wound. The AP isn't as satisfying as the Shadow Weaver or D-Cannon though.....and you need LOS
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/09 04:35:36
Sarigar wrote: Welcome back kingheff; it's been awhile since Ive seen you post on Aeldari.
I've only gotten a single game in so far, but the point values as they are, I'm unsure I'd put extras on units like the Nightspinners. I lost one out of two in my game, but not until turn 4 (terrain being a signficant factor).
Dire Avengers are fantastic. I ran a unit of 8 + 1 Exarch with dual Catapults (30 shots). I did pay the extra points for the Exarch that allowed them to become Objective Secured, which was fairly useful.
Striking Scorpions have Advanced Positions: they start the game on the board up to 9" away from enemy units and/or enemy deployment zones (no deep striking). However, using them to aggressively set up, then utilize Phantasm if you need to get them into a better/safer position can be very solid.
I was not nearly as familiar with all the stratagems, and I ended up with a lot more CP throughout the game than I'm accustomed to. However, I did not feel like I was drastically missing something. Between the unit improvements and Strands of Fate, Stratagems feel like an nicety rather than a near auto take in order to even compete.
I'm still on the fense with Dragons. They still feel like a one shot and done type unit. I think I can get better mileage out of other units, even though they do less damage per turn (but may last longer).
I definitely need to get more games in to have a more informed opinion. Let us know how your game(s) fare.
It's good to be back. I was lurking but with lockdowns etc I just wasn't playing so kind of dropped off. Did paint up a drukhari army though which was nice.
Good catch on the scorpions, going to take time to learn the subtle differences from the old codex
I've got a game tonight but it's a 30PL crusade game since that's what my flgs is running. Looking into ways to get some proper games soon. Crusade looks fun in its own way but I want to try lots of different units.
My crusade force is a farseer, 10 defenders, two squads of ten avengers and a squad of three d-cannons which I'm planning on reserving to help compensate for the shorter range.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another quick point, I think CTM on our vehicles is a great option. With so few ways to buff them guaranteeing a 66% chance to hit is worth ten points. Same with vectored engines, getting battle focus, even once, I think is well worth ten points. I wouldn't want more than one upgrade per vehicle and it's not always going to worth it on some vehicles.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/09 06:19:45
Adeptus Mechanicus 
Tyranids 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
Tons!
Tons!
Tons!
2,000pts
