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tneva82 wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Yeah Banshees are very underwhelming this edition, and not being able to turn off Overwatch was surprising to say the least.

Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions and Swooping Hawks appear to be the strongest aspects in the Index.

How would turn off overwatch work anyway in 10e? Just flat out 24" can't overwatch might be bit too good but old can't overwatch charging banshees would be nearly useless.

That's a good question, I think being anti-overwatch (and morale from the shriek) is their iconic ability so it felt weird removing it. You could say they can't be targeted by Overwatch, but the points might need to go up slightly to match. Perhaps for Banshees it would limit Overwatch to within 12", but then they are still getting roasted by Flamers. Perhaps an Aura where they support your other units, any enemy models within 12" of the Banshee can no longer use the Overwatch stratagem. They can still be shot by it, but if they survive it turns it off for the enemy allowing your more frail units to maneuver. Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.

I'm currently thinking a list which leaves opponent with no interactions or atleast very little. I'd like to discuss it here in Tactics forums before I post it in the armylist section.

Ulthwe Battle Host
- Autarch Wayleaper (dragon fusiongun, banshee mask, starglaive, weeping stones) 95
- Eldrad ulthran 100
- Baharroth 125
- Farseer skyrunner (reader of the runes) 95
- Farseer skyrunner 75
- Rangers (5) 55
- Rangers (5) 55
- Swooping hawks (10) 150
- Warp Spiders (10) 200
- Warp Spiders (10) 200
- Shroudrunners (6) 160
- Support weapon (d-cannon) 85
- Support weapon (d-cannon) 85
- Nightspinner 140
- Fire Prism 125
- Fire Prism 125
- Fire Prism 125

Total 2000 / 2 enchancements

So, basically, everything tries to hide as much as possible. Tanks and Support weapons sit at home objectives (behind cover), Farseers buff Support weapons with guide and situationally with fate dice 6-to-wound. Rangers deploy forward, and try to play the mission. Warp Spiders advance in flanks, trying to harass weak enemy units. Swooping hawks with Baharroth bounce in deep strike after shooting a key target. Shroudrunners bully midfield and try to pick out enemy characters. Eldrad hides in cover, and peeks out to debuff enemy units with his Doom. Autarch provides extra cp, and acts as a counter unit, trying to finish destroying units for extra fate dice.

Cp allocation;
- 2cp every turn for Fire and Fade (shroudrunners)
- 1cp every opponents turn for phantasm (Rangers, or situationally something else)

looks unbeatable. only thing id absolutely add is a unit of guardians defenders to get a fate dice every turn.

sadly our rules will not stay like this for long. Or maybe not sadly. fact is they won't.

What characters go in which units? the farseers on bikes are not lone ops, right?

Looks like your Farseers and Eldrad will be susceptible to indirect fire as they have no units to lead and lack the Lone Operative keyword.

Not sure about your local meta, but I already have guys ready to field 6-9 IG tanks with Indirect fire (which appear really cheap IMO).

If you don't have Indirect Fire concerns, list looks solid. Let us know how it fares.

Eldar FW Sheets are available and the Munitorum Field Manual was updated to include FW points. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/23/downloadable-datasheets-and-points-for-imperial-armour/

I'm a bit surprised the Wraithseer kept the Wraithlords point cost, I was expecting it to at least 20pts higher given the Invul, Psychic attack and access to a D-Cannon. It's Spear is a bit weaker than the WL Ghostglaive. I'm looking forward to trying out both of them soon.

Thoughts on Shadow Spectres?

They ruined the Warp Hunter. It’s got such garbage damage output. Maybe it battleshock a unit if it’s lucky. Then dies the next turn because it is too close and not very tough. They killed the warp hunter. They also made Hornet pulse lasers d3 damage. Also trash.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Eldar FW Sheets are available and the Munitorum Field Manual was updated to include FW points. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/23/downloadable-datasheets-and-points-for-imperial-armour/

I'm a bit surprised the Wraithseer kept the Wraithlords point cost, I was expecting it to at least 20pts higher given the Invul, Psychic attack and access to a D-Cannon. It's Spear is a bit weaker than the WL Ghostglaive. I'm looking forward to trying out both of them soon.

Thoughts on Shadow Spectres?

I'm debating if they are worth fielding with their Phoenix Lord attached having them hit on 2+. With the Infantry keyword, they can move out of a ruin, shoot, and move back into a ruin to get out of LOS.

That's a very viable strategy, although they may run into trouble against an opponent with a fast army with decent melee although the new Overwatch might help with that.

Irrilyth's Aura is rather eh, but the 2+ is nice.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
That's a very viable strategy, although they may run into trouble against an opponent with a fast army with decent melee although the new Overwatch might help with that.

Irrilyth's Aura is rather eh, but the 2+ is nice.

I'm more concerned about Indirect Fire. I can mitigate charging units to a degree (screens, terrain, overwatch, additional movement). I need to see how prevalent IF becomes now that 10th is widely available and more games are actually played out.

I'm not sold on Irrylith but will give it a try. Aeldari has a lot of tools and hard to fit it all in a 2000 point list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Faced a 30 Lychguard Necron styled army. I now see why Devastating Wounds is critical. We have a GT next month and the Necrons still have the ability to create extremely resilient armies.

Multiple Wraithknights coming for rematch. Gotta chew through 4++/5+++ and ability to reanimate after being shot at stratagem with Reanimator nearby is a LOT.

I had good luck using night spinners to slow down big melee units, then deployed troupe+troop master from falcons. Fire falcons into the melee units, charged in with troupe, they have +1 to wound on charge, rerolling wounds from the falcon, and devastating wounds from troupe master. Very good synergy of slowing down enemy troops so they cant charge, then making sure you get the charge with your own blender clowns.

warpedpig wrote:
I had good luck using night spinners to slow down big melee units, then deployed troupe+troop master from falcons. Fire falcons into the melee units, charged in with troupe, they have +1 to wound on charge, rerolling wounds from the falcon, and devastating wounds from troupe master. Very good synergy of slowing down enemy troops so they cant charge, then making sure you get the charge with your own blender clowns.

Crap. Another rule I forgot....Nightspimner's.

The Lychguard got stuck at midboard, but it cost me CP and/or throw away screen units.

I’m sad about the warp hunter being turned into a weak garbage unit that will die the moment it actually gets in range of the enemy. Its battle shock gimmick weapon is total trash.

Rematch against 30 Lychguard Necron army. Lost again but mainly as a result of me blundering rules.

Tactic that does work. Wraitknight shoots and destroys something on turn 1 (towering keyword is really good). The Yncarne immediately teleports and can cause chaos in opponent's deployment zzone. Yncarne can shoot and charge same turn as it teleported. This can potentially break the back of the opposing army.

Very cool tactic. Anyone have opinions on scathach wraithknight in 10th? Was gonna try one with the inferno lances and teleport around popping stuff.

hi guys, can anybody tell me the base sizes on: spirit seer, scorpions, firedragons, warp spiders, fuegan, assurmen and autarch way leaper?

they all seem to be still 25mm but that seems just odd.. I can't see anything about base sizes anywhere in the 10 rules.

Any tips?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
hi guys, can anybody tell me the base sizes on: spirit seer, scorpions, firedragons, warp spiders, fuegan, assurmen and autarch way leaper?

they all seem to be still 25mm but that seems just odd.. I can't see anything about base sizes anywhere in the 10 rules.

Any tips?

For minis that are for sale, GW usually lists the base size it comes with in the description on the webstore.

Or wahapedia will tell you.

A few questions: if the autarch on foot is attached to a unit, does the unit get the fight first ability from his banshee mask?

I think I read somewhere that certain abilities (like scouts) requires all models in a unit to have the ability. bur what about this one?

also, I can't believe all our wraith stuff hit on fours now. This is just such a blow. Feels weird to take wraith lords now even though they are tanky. only viable wraith option might be one 10 man blades/axes/guard unit with a spirit seer, I think. thats really a shame.

Scoundrel80 wrote:

A few questions: if the autarch on foot is attached to a unit, does the unit get the fight first ability from his banshee mask?

I think I read somewhere that certain abilities (like scouts) requires all models in a unit to have the ability. bur what about this one?

also, I can't believe all our wraith stuff hit on fours now. This is just such a blow. Feels weird to take wraith lords now even though they are tanky. only viable wraith option might be one 10 man blades/axes/guard unit with a spirit seer, I think. thats really a shame.

The wording of each ability will say if it applies to everything or not.

Scout mentions "every model in this unit" the Banshee Mask mentions "this bearers unit."

Speaking of Autarchs, what happened to the warp jump generator profile?

When they released the new autarch kit last year it initially had a restricted set of options on the datasheet. The article about the kit had stated that the new kit was fully compatible with the older one, but not in rules terms. After much gnashing of teeth they updated the datasheet on 15 March 22. But now in index 10th there's no option for the jump generator anymore, just the swooping hawks wings as the silly wayleaper.

datacard wrote:With wargear such as a winged pack or warp jump generator, an Autarch becomes an incredibly manoeuvrable war leader. So equipped, they can appear wherever their war host needs them in the blink of an eye, bringing graceful weaponry and consummate strategy to bear before vanishing out of the foe’s reach

Flavor text from the autach wayleaper. Difference between wings and jump pack is just cosmetic. And while it was nice that they did subtly different things before, with the slimming down of rules in 10th, I get them being rolled together.

Ah, missed that. Thanks.

Been getting in some small (1k) games.

Scatbikes with bladestorm are pretty great for thinning out enemy infantry. If you happen to be going after the nearest target, then the to-wound rerolls combo well with bladestorm, but the sheer number of downrange attacks is solid regardless. I've been using them as a bodyguard for a bikeseer. 6 bikes. 30 shots. Rerolling misses and possibly to-wound. AP-2 on to-wound rolls of 6. It's probably not competitively good, but it's a nice source of anti-infantry if you don't want to invest in shurikens.

Illic with a fat squad of rangers is about as great as you'd expect. I couldn't dig a necron overlord out of a squad of immortals with them (-1 Damage on the overlord plus healing with Reanimation Protocols), but they have enough precision shots to threaten other characters, I think. Plus, they're not a super expensive package, and being untargetable outside of 12" means they can camp objectives for you in relative safety.

tneva82 wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Yeah Banshees are very underwhelming this edition, and not being able to turn off Overwatch was surprising to say the least.

Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions and Swooping Hawks appear to be the strongest aspects in the Index.

How would turn off overwatch work anyway in 10e? Just flat out 24" can't overwatch might be bit too good but old can't overwatch charging banshees would be nearly useless.

Failing a battleshock test makes it so you cant target the unit with strats so then the unit cant overwatch

Yes but most of battleshock enforcing rules happen in shooting phase.

So what? Howling banshee's force battleshock test to every unit at the start of the movement phase? Only way that really stops it. And not reliable.

tneva82 wrote:
Yes but most of battleshock enforcing rules happen in shooting phase.

So what? Howling banshee's force battleshock test to every unit at the start of the movement phase? Only way that really stops it. And not reliable.

Hmm. Would it be unreasonable to let banshees point at an enemy unit in the eldar movement phase and just force them to take a battleshock test with a penalty? Or even just automatically shock them? You don't necessarily need to turn off overwatch for every unit in range; you just need to turn off overwatch for that one really scary unit with the flamers. "Focusing" their screams at a single target feels sort of consistent with how the scream has worked in past editions too.

If We take yvraine as our wl We Can buy three ravagers that get the rerolls from out detachment rule, right?

If so, then please tell me what beats this?



Yeah, id love a wave serpent to Protect those avengers vs indirect, and yes, two squads of Warp Spiders would be optimal for scoring, But you cant get everything you want in life and.. just try to image What this list Can put out in the shooting Phase.

I like your list. I run a shooter army in a similar fashion. There are some bad matchups but it does hit very hard and plays the missions well. I felt I didn't need Yvraine for the Ravagers; I could still get very solid shooting without them and still get the bonus CP. In general, I am scoring both secondaries in nearly every turn of the game so I rarely discard a secondary.

The challenge can be the board. I play on GW tourney layouts and they generally have two solid lanes of fire so I have to plan movement carefully as I can end up with a very crowded deployment zone.

If my opponent's aren't careful, the game is effectively over fast. In my last four games, opponent conceded on turn 2 twice. I hope GW will better balance Aeldari weapons or the meta shifts dramatically. As of now, I have no real reason to not take Brightlances as my default.


Aeldari
Strike Force (2000 points)
Battle Host


CHARACTER

Autarch Wayleaper (80 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Dragon fusion gun
1x Howling Banshee Mask
1x Star glaive

Farseer (65 points)
• 1x Eldritch Storm
1x Shuriken pistol
1x Witchblade


OTHER DATASHEETS

Hornet (80 points)
• 2x Bright lance
1x Wraithbone hull

Hornet (80 points)
• 2x Bright lance
1x Wraithbone hull

Night Spinner (170 points)
• 1x Doomweaver
1x Twin shuriken catapult
1x Wraithbone hull

Support Weapons (105 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x D-cannon
1x Shuriken catapult

Support Weapons (105 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x D-cannon
1x Shuriken catapult

Voidweaver (100 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Prismatic cannon
2x Shuriken cannon

Voidweaver (100 points)
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Prismatic cannon
2x Shuriken cannon

Vypers (75 points)
• 1x Bright lance
1x Twin shuriken catapult
1x Wraithbone hull

Vypers (75 points)
• 1x Bright lance
1x Twin shuriken catapult
1x Wraithbone hull

War Walkers (95 points)
• 2x Bright lance
1x War Walker feet

War Walkers (95 points)
• 2x Bright lance
1x War Walker feet

Warp Spiders (100 points)
• 1x Warp Spider Exarch
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Death spinner
1x Death spinner
1x Powerblades
• 4x Warp Spider
• 4x Close combat weapon
4x Death spinner

Warp Spiders (100 points)
• 1x Warp Spider Exarch
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Death spinner
1x Death spinner
1x Powerblades
• 4x Warp Spider
• 4x Close combat weapon
4x Death spinner

Warp Spiders (100 points)
• 1x Warp Spider Exarch
• 1x Close combat weapon
1x Death spinner
1x Death spinner
1x Powerblades
• 4x Warp Spider
• 4x Close combat weapon
4x Death spinner

Wraithknight (475 points)
• 1x Heavy wraithcannon
1x Heavy wraithcannon
2x Starcannon
1x Titanic feet

yeah, not getting the Leaper CP is trash. I haven't played the list yet, but just felt that those ravagers where a nice tool to move block orgs/necrons/gsc etc.

They are probably not needed, though.

Right now I hate how elder lists are just more or less auto build. Wayleaper, either avatar or yncarne as a power piece, either 2-3x prisms or a knight and then just as many lances at you can fit. its a bit stupid. Plays great, though : )

and by that I mean the lists are fun to play. we still die, we have to think to score etc. the new thing is, that we just always win.

I am flexing a bit to get 2 x Nightspinners and 1 x Yncarne.

Nightspinners can slow the advancing Custodes squads and Lychguard bricks. They also can peel off light infantry units that sit on the home objective.

I'll see what I prefer. I've got about 1500 points that is fixed and can swap units to taste for the final 500.