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With the point drop (and likely eventual errata to raise toughness...which I think many opponents would give you now already in a casual game), my concept of d-cannon sniping with the Wraithseer is now even more amusing. Poor dude really needs to get access to smite though.

Not efficient, of course, when we have so many good sniping options now, but it is hilarious and kinda fun.

Executioner is good but remember it has to target the nearest unit. Smite is good because it can target characters I thought?

I really like the Embolden + Hemlock + Mind War combo, you could also use horrify but you are better just using another smite I think when targeting a character. Embolden is probably best on a Spiritseer because apart from boosting Mind War embolden isn't amazing so you can use full smite

I go on a long weekend after ordering some Spectres and... nerfed. Good stuff.

I'll still run them, but it is going to be a pain in the rear to put them in my existing list without just dropping their numbers. :(

Embolden, Hemlock, and Hawk Exarch can Mind War up to 10 MW on an enemy char with 9 LD.

I'd build a whole list around that and count on pulling it off.

Do multiple Hemlocks and Hawk Exarch abilities stack?

 Korlandril wrote:
Do multiple Hemlocks and Hawk Exarch abilities stack?

No. It says within range of "any" within range, not "for each".

drakerocket wrote:
With the point drop (and likely eventual errata to raise toughness...which I think many opponents would give you now already in a casual game), my concept of d-cannon sniping with the Wraithseer is now even more amusing. Poor dude really needs to get access to smite though.

Not efficient, of course, when we have so many good sniping options now, but it is hilarious and kinda fun.

I don't know if we should hold out hope for the raise in toughness. The -25pts may be the band-aid that the Wraithseer gets instead. That said- now that D-Cannons are down 5 pts and don't require line of sight, I I'm feeling like the character-sniping strat is less ridiculous, especially against things like nids that have a lot of mind-war defense.

I plan on playing a Wraithseer-sniper and 2x Rangers in a game this week to see how effective he can be at sniping characters out of crowds.

 Korlandril wrote:
Executioner is good but remember it has to target the nearest unit. Smite is good because it can target characters I thought?

I really like the Embolden + Hemlock + Mind War combo, you could also use horrify but you are better just using another smite I think when targeting a character. Embolden is probably best on a Spiritseer because apart from boosting Mind War embolden isn't amazing so you can use full smite

I think you are mixing a bit the power.

Both Executioner and Smite must target the nearest enemy unit, but executioner grants you extra MW if a model is slain with the original attack.

It's Mind war the one who allow to target characters.

 Korlandril wrote:
Executioner is good but remember it has to target the nearest unit. Smite is good because it can target characters I thought?

I really like the Embolden + Hemlock + Mind War combo, you could also use horrify but you are better just using another smite I think when targeting a character. Embolden is probably best on a Spiritseer because apart from boosting Mind War embolden isn't amazing so you can use full smite

Awesome point....thank you for that suggestion

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Korlandril wrote:
Executioner is good but remember it has to target the nearest unit. Smite is good because it can target characters I thought?

I really like the Embolden + Hemlock + Mind War combo, you could also use horrify but you are better just using another smite I think when targeting a character. Embolden is probably best on a Spiritseer because apart from boosting Mind War embolden isn't amazing so you can use full smite

I think you are mixing a bit the power.

Both Executioner and Smite must target the nearest enemy unit, but executioner grants you extra MW if a model is slain with the original attack.

It's Mind war the one who allow to target characters.

I had just picked up from discussions that you could target any unit but yeah if it's closest, executioner is great and smite can be used too.

Smite spam can't be that great then, surely a dedicated shooting unit is going to be better use of points

Remember that executioner works best on units with 2 or less wounds and mindwar only works on characters. You can find yourself without a good target as the game progresses with these powers.

Doom will always find a use !! ftw

Well, the nice thing about Executioner is that it only tends to be wasted on things that you'd otherwise be pretty happy to Smite. There aren't that many multi-wound models which pay less than 10 points per wound. The big weakness of Smite is that it can be absorbed by little 4 point dudes, but Executioner is almost twice as effective against these.

Smite spam can't be that great then, surely a dedicated shooting unit is going to be better use of points

Depends on what youre up against. Smite doesnt sound like many wounds, but when youre not rolling to hit or wound or save they stack up suprisingly fast.

Personally, I love the idea of Executioner as a MSU/bubble wrap slayer. Smite followed by an Executioner is pretty much always going to kill a 5-man Marine unit. 2 smites and an Executioner can possibly see a 10-man unit die if you are lucky.

Running a Farseer on a bike with Doom and Executioner, I think, is the way to go. Mind War, while nice if you can invest in stacking buffs and de-buffs, personally doesn’t feel like it’ll do much unless you are targeting things like Guard commanders etc. Sure, with a Hemlock, Swooping Hawk Exarch and Embolden, you have an 8% chance of 1 shoting BobbyG, but I don’t really see it as “worth it” outside of the fun one off game where it works.

Spartacus wrote:

Smite spam can't be that great then, surely a dedicated shooting unit is going to be better use of points

Depends on what youre up against. Smite doesnt sound like many wounds, but when youre not rolling to hit or wound or save they stack up suprisingly fast.

So lets compare a Farseer to 4 dark reapers.

Against MEQs

Reapers do 8 shots, hit on 3+ for 5.33 hits, wound on 3+ for 3.55 wounds and they have a 5+ save for 2.3 dead
Farseer smites averaging a 2 on a D3 and can cast executioner to kill an average of 4 more. Killing 6

Against a rhino
Reapers do 4 shots, hit on 3+ for 2.66 hits, wound on a 3+ for 1.77 wounds, rhinos get a 5+ save so 1.18 go through with 3 damage for about 3.5 damage
Farseer smites for an average of 2 and executioners for an average of 2 for an average of 4 moral wounds.

In both cases farseers did more damage. No I am not taking into consideration failed psychic tests but consider for smite 1 out of 6 times you will roll a 10+ for D6 wounds. If you roll a 4+ on any one dice with a farseer you can re-roll the other to try and get that 10. The failure rate for smite is extremely low especially with rerolls.

Probably should be comparing a Farseer on bike, so 5-6 Reapers is more reasonable. A Footseer just doesn't have the range and targeting options of Reapers.

Interesting comparison, though.

Faolchu's Wing solves the issue.

Wondering what peoples' thoughts on Irillyth are as a Phoenix Lord. With the nerfs to Spectres, his leadership debuff has become less useful, but his statline as a whole compares more favourably to just taking more Spectres now. He still seems a bit pricy for what you get, especially with no invulnerable save, but still all around solid from what I'm looking at.

In the same vein (and I know they're corsairs rather than CWE) but how people feel about the various Corsair units now that they've had their points reduced.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
In the same vein (and I know they're corsairs rather than CWE) but how people feel about the various Corsair units now that they've had their points reduced.

Improved, and certainly an interesting battalion candidate, the problem as always with them is finding an HQ unit to put in there that fits thematically and isn't useless.

WindstormSCR wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
In the same vein (and I know they're corsairs rather than CWE) but how people feel about the various Corsair units now that they've had their points reduced.

Improved, and certainly an interesting battalion candidate, the problem as always with them is finding an HQ unit to put in there that fits thematically and isn't useless.

Yeah I tend to hang out in the periphery of 'CWE' and exist more often in the 'General Eldar' envelope (especially with Ynnari) so I think they may end up getting slotted in as a possible troop choice. I'm thinking 10 Reavers with Shard Carbines and 2 Shruiken Cannon.

 Farseer_V2 wrote:

WindstormSCR wrote:

 Farseer_V2 wrote:
In the same vein (and I know they're corsairs rather than CWE) but how people feel about the various Corsair units now that they've had their points reduced.

Improved, and certainly an interesting battalion candidate, the problem as always with them is finding an HQ unit to put in there that fits thematically and isn't useless.

Yeah I tend to hang out in the periphery of 'CWE' and exist more often in the 'General Eldar' envelope (especially with Ynnari) so I think they may end up getting slotted in as a possible troop choice. I'm thinking 10 Reavers with Shard Carbines and 2 Shruiken Cannon.

I'd consider skyreavers for the speed, since reavers can't use a transport.

if you're a corsair player looking to make more use of them you could take a stab at this: http://puu.sh/yw4ab/e05e646fd2.pdf

Still needs an update for post-codex, but I'm considering waiting on more feedback and the DE dex to drop

 lambsandlions wrote:

In both cases farseers did more damage. No I am not taking into consideration failed psychic tests but consider for smite 1 out of 6 times you will roll a 10+ for D6 wounds. If you roll a 4+ on any one dice with a farseer you can re-roll the other to try and get that 10. The failure rate for smite is extremely low especially with rerolls.

D6 wounds on smite is 11+. I'm surprised people are still making this mistake.

 lambsandlions wrote:

Reapers do 8 shots, hit on 3+ for 5.33 hits, wound on 3+ for 3.55 wounds and they have a 5+ save for 2.3 dead
Farseer smites averaging a 2 on a D3 and can cast executioner to kill an average of 4 more. Killing 6

Against a rhino
Reapers do 4 shots, hit on 3+ for 2.66 hits, wound on a 3+ for 1.77 wounds, rhinos get a 5+ save so 1.18 go through with 3 damage for about 3.5 damage
Farseer smites for an average of 2 and executioners for an average of 2 for an average of 4 moral wounds.

Smite has an 83% chance to work. Executioner has a 69% chance to work. They both have a ~45% chance to be Denied.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Faolchu's Wing solves the issue.

And give up Novalance? No way.

5-6 Reapers is the best comparison. They are beasts, expect a nerf at some point.

Well, reapers and spears are far and away the best units in the codex (Spectres we're close before, but don't come close now). While I could definitely see some rebalancing in their future, with the silly heavy-handedness of the Spectre nerf, I worry for them. While still a very good value for their points, they're still very expensive for 1W models, and the last thing Eldar need is one of their anti-horde options to become too expensive to deal with hordes.

xmbk wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
Faolchu's Wing solves the issue.

And give up Novalance? No way.

5-6 Reapers is the best comparison. They are beasts, expect a nerf at some point.

Novalance can only be taken on a Skyrunner Autarch with a Laser Lance. Talking about Farseers here.

I think it is fair to compare a foot Farseer.

If you have both an Aurtarch and Farseer, if you take the wing, you can't take the novalance without giving up on a CP for the extra relic. Might be worth it, but defininitely a real cost. I'd value a single CP at about 25 points, so upgrading to a bike seer seems about fair as a tradeoff

A Farseer cannot take the Nova Lance so yeah.

Frowny has it. Wings have a real opportunity cost, can't just throw them on a Farseer for free.

As for Reapers and Spears being the best, don't forget Hemlocks. They rival Reapers for best, Spears are a clear third.