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Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

Morale in general is an odd thing in warhammer 40k tabletop.

Like, why would space marines turn tail and run? They probably wouldnt. The idea that you can actually see a 90 ppm scrapjet run off is equally stupid.

Things shouldnt run off. Morale should do something different all together, like making a unit worse for a round or something.


But if we do keep the idea of still running, then Orks by lore are much less likely to run when near their warboss, and much more likely to run off when the warboss dies. I feel like removing any modifiers to attrition and getting like +1 or +2 to leadership near your warlord of just a warboss/speedboss type would be a decent way to go about it.

And maybe the round where your warlord dies, the entire army suffers from -1 leadership. Now that i dont know if would be balanced or not but at least it would be lore friendly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 16:59:49


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

- About Dawn of War 3 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Morale casualties aren't limited to "running", though we usually put it that way when discussing tactics.

It also includes falling back to regroup at a specific point outside the battlefield, taking care of fallen/wounded comrades, being shell shocked or affected by hallucinations or mirages, your head exploding because chaos got into your mind or picking up your severed arm and taking it to a doc to get it re-attached.

Outside of that, I think there are hundred of threads on dakka with suggestion about what to do with morale, so I won't go into that in detail.

But yes, just adding +1 to leadership would make a big enough difference to matter and would actually make more sense than the odd +1 to hit the just slapped onto everything as if they had 5 minutes to think up all auras in the codex. Then again, multiple warbosses being unable to coordinate for a combines benefit is kind of fluffy, so eh.

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Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in eu
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

 Jidmah wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
I agree, Orks are in dire need of something to deal with morale. You could have something like Orks within 6" of the Warlord are fearless, Nobz mitigate casualties from attrition, bosspoles doing something, etc. There's loads of ways to work it.


Mitigate is not the same as ignore. Any mechanic that allows you to ignore moral is a bad one, so there should absolutely not be a fearless aura in any army.


Was spitballing ideas really, I just miss Boyz mobs that weren't afraid of nuffin'

But still it seems silly to have Boyz running away from a smattering of gunfire when there's a warboss and or his Lefftenunts knocking about. Bring back proper Breakin' Heads I say.

Even if the current Breakin' Heads was 1CP it would be leagues better.

Or even using the LD value of a nearby warboss/nobs unit in place of the boys unit would be huge.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/17 17:47:48


 
   
Made in gr
Longtime Dakkanaut




While I disagree with Semper that boyz just sucks, the fact is that they are thoroughly . mediocre.

In all the competitive lists I have seen bar one, people only take boyz as trukkboyz. There are many lists out there, that pays the 3cp tax im order not to bring any troops, and plenty lists that opt for the extremely weak 5ppm gretchin (with no obsec) rather than take boyz.

I think boyz are decently killy even at 9ppm, and with goffs they are even good in melee. The problem is that they are very squishy at 9ppm, they are bad objective holders, and they suffer badly from morale. Shoota boyz are objectively worse now, as they cannot advance and shoot anymore, and the lack of ap in melee hurts them more than getting a underwhelming shooting profile helps them. Shoots boyz aren't really helped by either waaagh either.

One way to make boyz better would be to make trukks better (or cheaper). Another would be to give units +2 leadership for a 5 point bosspole.
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






Considering how that's exactly what is happening in quite a few novels, fluff pieces and games, I wonder what's so silly about that.

Orks, by nature, are not a brave race. Unafraid of death, yes, but not brave.

We are just used to orks being fearless because of how morale worked in previous iterations of our army.

Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Since we are airing grievances I’m not a huge fan of Dakka profile should have just left everything as rapid fire or assault and given all rapid fire +1 shot in speed Waagh

And the nob with banner should have been a morale instead of another +1 hit probbaly like the crusade relic +1 ld aura and ignore attrition modifiers within 12in to clan models.

Breaking heads shouldn’t have been a strat but a warboss/beastboss aura.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Beardedragon wrote:
Morale in general is an odd thing in warhammer 40k tabletop.

Like, why would space marines turn tail and run? They probably wouldnt. The idea that you can actually see a 90 ppm scrapjet run off is equally stupid.

Things shouldnt run off. Morale should do something different all together, like making a unit worse for a round or something.


But if we do keep the idea of still running, then Orks by lore are much less likely to run when near their warboss, and much more likely to run off when the warboss dies. I feel like removing any modifiers to attrition and getting like +1 or +2 to leadership near your warlord of just a warboss/speedboss type would be a decent way to go about it.

And maybe the round where your warlord dies, the entire army suffers from -1 leadership. Now that i dont know if would be balanced or not but at least it would be lore friendly.


As Jid mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean "running Away" it could just be regrouping or any of the other things Jid mentioned. So yeah it makes sense for units to disappear off the board after a failed morale test. The problem is that as of this moment, Orkz are the only faction that actually gives a damn about Morale. Marines are LD 8 with a Sgt and almost never appear in squads bigger than 5. Which means that if they lose 4/5ths of their models they have a 1/3rd chance to lose the final guy. If boyz could be taken in Mobz of 5 we actually might see them spammed a bit more as well since free nobz and low probability of morale issues would be nice

Nidz will be the telling codex for whether or not GW is giving a damn about morale or if it was designed just to feth over Horde Factions.

 Jidmah wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
I agree, Orks are in dire need of something to deal with morale. You could have something like Orks within 6" of the Warlord are fearless, Nobz mitigate casualties from attrition, bosspoles doing something, etc. There's loads of ways to work it.


Mitigate is not the same as ignore. Any mechanic that allows you to ignore moral is a bad one, so there should absolutely not be a fearless aura in any army.


I agree completely here. The problem is that as mentioned above, we are just about the only faction that has to actually plan around morale. I can't think of a single other faction that regularly has to take morale checks and lose models.

I played another FLGS Tournament this weekend (3 rounds) I was able to pull out 3 more wins and win the tournament with my Alpha strike list, but I must have taken 3-5 morale checks a game. The Trukk Boyz regularly lost 2-4 models to morale, so did the Stormboyz, the Kommandos did a few times as well, albeit not as much since they usually drew a lot of firepower turn 1 now that my opponents realize how fething scary they are in CC.

Fun note, I played Game 3 against a fellow Ork player who was rocking Buggy Spam. He was floored when I decimated his buggies turn 1 with the Kommandos. Each mob was able to tie up a Squadron of Vehicles and more importantly, was able to kill at least 1 in each squadron. At that point I had over 1/2 of his army tied up in Combat where they didn't want to be and it was relatively quick win as he conceded turn 2 after not being able to free himself sufficiently from combat before the Warbosses made their epic appearance.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

Cheaper trukks are not gonna happen. They're already among the cheapest transports in the game.

I'm also strongly against making things cheaper, including boyz which IMHO they should be 9ppm models, most of the ork stuff is already quite cheap.

Boyz simply need a purpose, some buffs in order to give them something that differentiate them from the cheap specialists in the upcoming expansion could do it. Orks are exactly like Adepta Sororitas in this regard.

About morale, if you want something different than fleeing you need to change the game's core rules, not orks ones.


 
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Or we can - for some time - do not play 120 boyz….

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I don’t think a lot of people who make non-bloodaxe buggy list realize how easy it is to lock down buggy spam. If you are going to put a few buggies in a non-blood add list it’s fine but if your throwing out 8+ buggies in another clan your just asking to get those buggies tied in combat especially when you put them in squadrons.
Regarding boys they need some more morale mitigation in the form of nob w banner and warboss breakin eads aura added back. Beyond that I wouldn’t mind seeing the +1 atk for being over 20 boys brought back, mob up strategem returned, and maybe powerklaw down to 5ppm. Trukk boys specialist would have been fine with multiple boys units being allowed to take it. Regarding points if you did the above they boys would be okay. Gretchin definitely need a 1ppm drop they are by far the weakest unit in game for 5ppm. Even cultists and horrors are stronger then Gretchin. Either that or allow Gretchin benefit from klan aura.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 10:37:50


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:
Cheaper trukks are not gonna happen. They're already among the cheapest transports in the game.

I'm also strongly against making things cheaper, including boyz which IMHO they should be 9ppm models, most of the ork stuff is already quite cheap.

Boyz simply need a purpose, some buffs in order to give them something that differentiate them from the cheap specialists in the upcoming expansion could do it. Orks are exactly like Adepta Sororitas in this regard.

About morale, if you want something different than fleeing you need to change the game's core rules, not orks ones.


A Trukk is 70pts. Its Movement 12, T6, 10 wounds 4+ save. Has a carrying capacity of 12 and has Open topped, Ramshackle and Ere We Go. It has a single big shoota for ranged combat and its 3 attacks at S6 in CC but it hits on 5s.

A Marine Rhino is 80pts. Its movement 12 T7, 10 wounds 3+ save only carries 10 but it doesn't need to carry more. Its got ATSKNF, Bolter Discipline, Shock assault and Combat doctrines. Its got a Stormbolter or for 5pts it can go to 2 stormbolters which put out 4 shots each at BS3. Not exactly great but definitely better than the Trukk but nobody really takes them.

Dark Eldar have Venom's at 75pts, its Movement 16 (Hover), T5, 6W, 4+ save, 5+ invuln, -1 to hit only carries 6 but again, most DE units are small. Its got Blade Artists and PFP. Its armed with a Splinter Cannon and 2 Rifles at BS3. in CC its got 3 attacks at S6 -1AP hitting on 4s.

Dark Eldar ALSO have Raiders at 95pts, its Movement 14 (Hover), T6, 10W, 4+ save, 5+ Invuln, it carries 11, Its got the same Blade Artists and PFP its armed with a Dark Lance and has the same CC abilities.

So the Rhino isn't taken even though its significantly more durable for 10pts more. The Venoms/Raiders are taken all the time they are 2-4' faster, they are more deadly at ranged combat and close combat, they have the same or better durability and more importantly are also open topped. So what is the difference between the Trukk at 70 and the Raider at 95? Trukk is 2' slower, -1 WS, -2 BS, Same Strength, Same Toughness, Same Wounds, Same attacks, -1LD and same save. So durability wise against most anti-tank weapons the Raider is significantly more durable thanks to the invuln save. Ranged combat the Dark Lance is S8 -4AP D3+3dmg hitting on 3s compared to 3(5) S5 shots hitting on 5s. In CC the BladeVanes hitting on 4s is a helluva lot better than the trukkz 3 S6 attacks hitting on 5s, especially when you add in Blade artists and PFP buffs.

Dark Lances are priced at 15pts on infantry squads, A 5+ Invuln for Trukkz is priced at 20pts but I think thats honestly about 10-15pts over priced, but lets say 10. That means that Just the Invuln/Weapon make up the price for the difference between the two. You are still left with slower movement and worse WS/BS/LD and of course the Close Combat Weapon it comes standard with.

All of that is to say that while the trukk is useful, it could very clearly use a 10pt price reduction to be competitive against things like the Raider.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
gungo wrote:
I don’t think a lot of people who make non-bloodaxe buggy list realize how easy it is to lock down buggy spam. If you are going to put a few buggies in a non-blood add list it’s fine but if your throwing out 8+ buggies in another clan your just asking to get those buggies tied in combat especially when you put them in squadrons.
Regarding boys they need some more morale mitigation in the form of nob w banner and warboss breakin eads aura added back. Beyond that I wouldn’t mind seeing the +1 atk for being over 20 boys brought back, mob up strategem returned, and maybe powerklaw down to 5ppm. Trukk boys specialist would have been fine with multiple boys units being allowed to take it. Regarding points if you did the above they boys would be okay. Gretchin definitely need a 1ppm drop they are by far the weakest unit in game for 5ppm. Even cultists and horrors are stronger then Gretchin. Either that or allow Gretchin benefit from klan aura.


Yep, tying up Buggies is a good strat to beat them up. And LD is absolutely the biggest issue we face right now. I really want to avoid stratagems to make them competitive though, feels too much like 8th edition. I do want to point out though that even at 4ppm Grotz would be as useless as they are now. They need a 5+ save to justify their price/existence and even then it would still be useless except as objective holders sitting in cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Tomsug wrote:
Or we can - for some time - do not play 120 boyz….


I agree, I'm bored with boyz spam, but a lot of players like it and shouldn't be completely blocked out of playing. But on top of that, we have gone and done a complete 180 on boyz. In 8th you saw massive mobz of boyz backed by buffing characters. Now? You might see a unit of trukk boyz as MSU troop tax, that is it. It would be nice to have a middle ground where boyz are at least possible to be used.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 11:30:04


 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in dk
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Denmark

I think Ork boyz would be fine at their current price point, if they had better buffs, for example a 5+++ from the Painboy instead of 6+++, 5++ on the KFF for infantry instead of 6++, Breaking 'Eads either cheaper at 1CP or as a built-in ability for 'Nobz and Warbosses, perhaps even +1 LD for having a 'Nob with a bosspole.

As of right now, they are a rather fragile unit at their price point. I use mine in trukks and for holding objectives. They might be able to krump some screening unit, like guardsmen, cultists or scarabs, but they rarely last long after that.

I also agree that Gretchin feel very overcosted at 5ppm. To be worth that they would need to at least have obsec and some kind of useful ability.

2000pts Da Blitza Boyz! (Orks) 50% painted.

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Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

SemperMortis wrote:


So the Rhino isn't taken even though its significantly more durable for 10pts more.


Actually it is, and at 80 points it's an efficient transport. Armies that need it will take it. Sororitas (especially) and Thousand Sons already do.

SM don't need it, they're fast and tanky enough to skip transports, they are good at mid-long range, and most of their infantries can't even ride in rhinos anyway. If their key units needed a ride and could actually get inside a rhino, those transports would certainly be taken pretty often.

Drukhari transports are very powerful and most of their infantries desperately need speed and extra protection. Instead of decreasing the cost of a trukk GW could easily increase Venom's and Raider's cost. This is also the faction that has the higher win rate in competitive games, and it has been the top tier since several months now. Upping some of their stuff makes sense.

I think 70ppm for a 10W T6 4+ save transport, that belongs to a faction that can get good use of it, is already cheap, and I'm against spamming units (2-3 trukks are already taken in competitive lists) and making expensive stuff (in currency, a trukk is 44$) cheap in points.


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:


Actually it is, and at 80 points it's an efficient transport. Armies that need it will take it. Sororitas (especially) and Thousand Sons already do.

SM don't need it, they're fast and tanky enough to skip transports, they are good at mid-long range, and most of their infantries can't even ride in rhinos anyway. If their key units needed a ride and could actually get inside a rhino, those transports would certainly be taken pretty often.


Which is why I specified in that post "Space Marine" SOB give their transport a invuln for free, Thousand sons use them somewhat but as a wonderful buff they also get -2AP on their bolter shots Again though, a Rhino is +1T and +1 Armor save for 10pts more on a transport. That is pretty damn nice, and again, only armies that get more special rules/weapons to add to the rhino actually take them. I went all the way back to the 11th of September looking for a SM list that took a Rhino, there wasn't any. All I am saying is that a transport that offers no real benefits besides a transport, and a flimsy one at that, should not cost 70pts. They could make it better, give it a useful CC function or give it more durability to make it harder to destroy, but as it stands they aren't really that competitive and I also don't see them often except as Trukk Boyz transports. In fact, I just went through all Ork GT placing lists for September, 0 trukkz were used....a lot of Rukkatrukks though

 Blackie wrote:
Drukhari transports are very powerful and most of their infantries desperately need speed and extra protection. Instead of decreasing the cost of a trukk GW could easily increase Venom's and Raider's cost. This is also the faction that has the higher win rate in competitive games, and it has been the top tier since several months now. Upping some of their stuff makes sense.

I think 70ppm for a 10W T6 4+ save transport, that belongs to a faction that can get good use of it, is already cheap, and I'm against spamming units (2-3 trukks are already taken in competitive lists) and making expensive stuff (in currency, a trukk is 44$) cheap in points.
They aren't seen at top tables that is for sure, and i'm one of the weirdos trying to make them work atm. I've played a host of tournaments with them in my Alpha strike list. The Trukkz only work with Trukk boyz and even then...barely.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in fr
Stinky Spore





Hi Orks friends,

I am really having a hard time facing Deathguard army. Its just like this army is a perfect counter to Orks.

I am always facing Typhus, DG Demon prince, the 2 elites characters, 3* x pox guys, 10 terminators, 2* 3 deathshrouds, 2 * plagueburst & 1 Dread Contemptor.

I have a big mini collection but no plane to go to a full speedwhaagh and i must say: I love Close combat more. I have the new Beastboss on squig and squighog riders but no killrig for the moment. Only 3 scrapjets / 3 squigbuggys.

Do we have to go full CC or full Shoot to really be effective ?

Any advices versus Deathguards or on an army list ?

Thanks!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 14:06:43


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 thori wrote:
Hi Orks friends,

I am really having a hard time facing Deathguard army. Its just like this army is a perfect counter to Orks.

I am always facing Typhus, DG Demon prince, the 2 elites characters, 3* x pox guys, 10 terminators, 2* 3 deathshrouds, 2 * plagueburst & 1 Dread Contemptor.

I have a big mini collection but no plane to go to a full speedwhaagh and i must say: I love Close combat more. I have the new Beastboss on squig and squighog riders but no killrig for the moment. Only 3 scrapjets / 3 squigbuggys.

Do we have to go full CC or full Shoot to really be effective ?

Any advices versus Deathguards or on an army list ?

Thanks!


perfect question for Jidman since I believe his second army is DG. But in my experience the best way to deal with Deathguard is to eliminate the priority targets like the Plagueburst crawlers and the contemptor and than pick off the other stuff at your leisure since they don't pose a threat at range anymore.

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




SemperMortis wrote:
perfect question for Jidman since I believe his second army is DG. But in my experience the best way to deal with Deathguard is to eliminate the priority targets like the Plagueburst crawlers and the contemptor and than pick off the other stuff at your leisure since they don't pose a threat at range anymore.


Easier said than done though. Plagueburst Crawlers are tough tanks and Orks have little long range anti-tank capacity. It could be tough with a close combat focused army without a Kill Rig (which is pretty good at sniping tanks even though its attaks are all short range). I would personnaly try to go with an outflanking group squighob boyz with squig bombs or something like that under such circumstances.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




epronovost wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
perfect question for Jidman since I believe his second army is DG. But in my experience the best way to deal with Deathguard is to eliminate the priority targets like the Plagueburst crawlers and the contemptor and than pick off the other stuff at your leisure since they don't pose a threat at range anymore.


Easier said than done though. Plagueburst Crawlers are tough tanks and Orks have little long range anti-tank capacity. It could be tough with a close combat focused army without a Kill Rig (which is pretty good at sniping tanks even though its attaks are all short range). I would personnaly try to go with an outflanking group squighob boyz with squig bombs or something like that under such circumstances.


Absolutely, its definitely not easy, and nor should it be. But once those ranged threats are over its relatively easy to just pick and choose your moments to engage in CC>

 Tomsug wrote:
Semper krumps under the radar

 
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut




SemperMortis wrote:
epronovost wrote:
SemperMortis wrote:
perfect question for Jidman since I believe his second army is DG. But in my experience the best way to deal with Deathguard is to eliminate the priority targets like the Plagueburst crawlers and the contemptor and than pick off the other stuff at your leisure since they don't pose a threat at range anymore.


Easier said than done though. Plagueburst Crawlers are tough tanks and Orks have little long range anti-tank capacity. It could be tough with a close combat focused army without a Kill Rig (which is pretty good at sniping tanks even though its attaks are all short range). I would personnaly try to go with an outflanking group squighob boyz with squig bombs or something like that under such circumstances.


Absolutely, its definitely not easy, and nor should it be. But once those ranged threats are over its relatively easy to just pick and choose your moments to engage in CC>


Busting tanks and other artillery has always been the greatest weakness of Orks in my opinion, which I must admit is rather fluffy. Though I have to say those Deathguard Terminators are ridiculously tough even if they are expensive.
   
Made in ca
Stormin' Stompa






I've found that my main issue with PBC is that they just hide behind terrain deep into their deployment and they screen their backfield well enough that we can't just deepstrike and tie them up with Stormboyz. So far Wazbom Blastajets have been one of the few ways we can severely damage or potentially oneshot PBC T1 and T2.
   
Made in gb
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





United Kingdom

My experience playing against DG has been taking out the longer ranged units ASAP and then trying to kite the slow stuff and chip it down to a point where you can move in to finish them off. It's super grindy and unpleasant though, and by no means a reliable method.
   
Made in fr
Stinky Spore





OK so, what are the best unit to kill plagueburst ?

i can deep strike 2*3 koptas but one unit is not enough to oneshoot and a bit costy. Some rockets and Mega blasta seem mandatory for multi wounds ?
   
Made in cz
Bonkers Buggy Driver with Rockets





Prague

Wazbooms. Take two.

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Made in fr
Mutilatin' Mad Dok






But obviously, pay 20 for the two S9 big gunz, and their magic D3+3 damage. That and the aerial KFF. Don’t skimp on any costs aside from the supa shooters imho.

I for one don’t have too much trouble with Deathguard, but it really comes down to how lucky they get with the crawlers. I beat one at a RTT 9 days ago, the player was pretty good, I went second (as I did all tournament). Wazbomb whiffed, sguig lauchers wiffed, but I managed to hold more primaries most turns and this gave me my victory (12 me, 08 him, for those familiar with WTC scoring). Something like 79 points me and around 60 him.

I was on dawn of war deployment though, so I stretched him thin enough, even though he didn’t fall for my baiting. deathguard are much tougher to beat when the deploy zone is not as wide (In narrow deployments I lose more than I win against them, especially if I go second)

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:31:13


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Made in dk
Longtime Dakkanaut




Danmark

I only hate playing against DG if they bring mortarion and i happen to run Freebootas army, which, frankly i and most people tend to do these days.

Because what the feth do you do? You want to get that +1 to hit by killing something, but usually you also want to fire all your big guns at mortarion because if you dont he will wreck havoc the entire game.

So i can never figure out if i should aim all my guns, that are str 8 or +1 to wound at mortarion, essentially having no klan kulture because nothing dies that round, or kill something else first, and then go for mortarion with fewer guns.

Its an annoying conundrum.

best i can hope for is killing poxwalkers first with big shootas and the like if they bring any.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/18 21:41:49


Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.

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Made in us
Flashy Flashgitz




North Carolina

The real problem with DG is getting around the aura of fight last. If you're playing the freebooterz list, just paste the terminators with your wazboms. I wouldn't even bother shooting at the PBCs unless you're tabling them or have nothing better to shoot at.

I've noticed we really lack the typical CC tricks of fight first/last which feels bad as an army that should be melee focused.
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






 Jidmah wrote:
 Afrodactyl wrote:
I agree, Orks are in dire need of something to deal with morale. You could have something like Orks within 6" of the Warlord are fearless, Nobz mitigate casualties from attrition, bosspoles doing something, etc. There's loads of ways to work it.


Mitigate is not the same as ignore. Any mechanic that allows you to ignore moral is a bad one, so there should absolutely not be a fearless aura in any army.


I disagree for one faction it would be fitting to have a fearless aura. Tyranids when in synapse range. The hive mind is telling them go here and do that and they have no free will to do anything else. outside of synapse range and when under instinctual behavior i would 100% agree they should have low leadership and have a good chance to run as that is what predators do when there is a threat.

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Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

plenty of things should be straight up fearless, orks arent one of them.
Though orks shouldnt be cowards either. I swear about a quarter of my boy deaths are from morale alone.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok






 Dendarien wrote:
The real problem with DG is getting around the aura of fight last. If you're playing the freebooterz list, just paste the terminators with your wazboms. I wouldn't even bother shooting at the PBCs unless you're tabling them or have nothing better to shoot at.

I've noticed we really lack the typical CC tricks of fight first/last which feels bad as an army that should be melee focused.


Yeah I don’t shoot the Pbc either. I usually tie them up in cc at some point in the game. Btw is it just me or is everyone and their mother playing DG these days ? Them and GKs as of recently (which is strange to me because basically both armies have just one build…).

The fight last aura is strong indeed but you just kite around it, go on other objectives. I have yet to face mortarion as everyone seems to think he is autolose against too many armies to be tournament material

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/10/19 06:44:57


Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

No fight first or force opponents to fight last is pretty fluffy though as orks always had bad initiative values and before 8th they typically never fought first anyway.

I think only Drukhari can field a full "fight first" army, most of the factions that use those mechanics have typically one unit or character that does that. SM, Necrons, etc... don't really use it.


 
   
 
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