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 luke1705 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't we already have 50pt WC2 batteries with Zoanthropes? I'm going to assume the Patriarch will be more expensive than that.

If they could roll on telepathy, were decent in combat and were IC, you'd have a decent point. As is, the thropes are 0-3

It doesn't appear that he can roll on biomancy but that's ok. Those tend to be more personal buffs.

I was answering SoloSam47's comment about the Patriarch being a cheap Warp Charge source with Zoanthropes more than likely being cheaper if all you need are more Warp Charges. So I would argue I did have a point.

Apologies for the misread. Truth be told, though, with hive tyrants we have a decent amount of warp charge and unless the patriarch is 100+ points, I think he's going to be a big positive for Tyranids, and I think that it's likely worth having your WC battery be able to *do* something (see Maleceptor). I will definitely see how running a few of them works out.


*General hope that stealer shock can be a thing again with invis/shrouding!*

Minor annoyance in that the Patriarch has BS0, meaning it can't use psychic shriek RAW. However, a copy of the favoured dataslate is out - its 85 pts for 12 fearless models, which also have a reasonable melee statline and assault nades. Seems good eough to use as troops in allied to me - the fact they have a lot of wounds for the points and don't have to be babysat is very nice!

Patriarch generates its powers from Telepathy, and is an independent character.

Only odd thing is under Wargear it lists a Genestealer Familiar, and the picture shows one next to the Patriarch on its own base. So probably can't join other units?

It's a "style" thing, but back in the olden days, when Nids had powers I normally took Telepathy over Biomancy, so I have no problems.

An Invisable SkyTyrant would Rawk! Though I would gladly settle for Invisable Stealers.

Any news yet on the purebreed genestealers? I am hoping they will be getting some sort off buff in the genecult, would be happy if its even just simple like run and charge in same turn. As for the patriarch knowing only telepathy, eh im cool with it, it offers stuff nids dont normally have. Plus Hit and run on him is a nice addition with a squad of genestealers.

Also I feel like these rules will change a tad when their actual codex drops. That patriarch just seems too generic to be an HQ for an army.

I played in a 1000 point zone Mortalis event versus mostly 30k marines with a stealer heavy list... They really tore it up !

So we still haven't got to an analysis of most of the formations.
I am building up my list now, and will certainly include the Hypertoxic Node.
I will likely also include a CAD as it is a play group requirement.
I am having trouble deciding on the second formation. Right now it is between the Living Artillery and Bioblast Node.
Each provides serious firepower, and works relatively well with my collection.
If I include the Living Artillery I will still include a Tyranofex in the CAD along with 2 melee Carnifexes.
If I include the Bioblast Node I will build the Haruspex but will likely need to drop the biovores in favor of some bubble wrapping hormies and a beefier warrior squad.
Thoughts?
Anyone have experience with either formation?

Im casting my vote for living artillary

I second living Artilery. Incredibly useful with pinning, and more useful as Fexes are best at short ranges whereas the LAN usually is effective from turn 1 and is cheaper. Id say a hypertoxic node, cad and lam would be very effective, especially with 2-3 flyrants.

As to the new codex wishlisting I want to reiterate my request from the last season
1. T 7 MCs
2. Usable special characters (outside formations).
3. Genesteeler Cults (woot)!
Additionally this year I would like to see:
4. A formation that brings it home for the Swarmlord, something that really illustrates all the combined tactical acumen of an entire hive fleet's experience. Better reserve manipulation and Just as Plannedyness.
5. Wings biomorph should take an arm slot. Part of what is wrong with the dex is how much better than everything a flyrant is. Also its on the model that way. I would like to see it available to primes as well unless they bring back the parasite of mortex.
6. I miss Implant Attack as a broodlord upgrade, but alas.
7. I would like to see an extra attack for each pair of scyths. Such that even a replacement by crushing claws looses you the extra attack. Your vanilla canifexes would get 6 A on the charge. To a similar affect give the trygon 3 pairs like it has on the model.
8. explain the darn rules for sporeburst as it applies in a squad.
9. Explain the firing rules for the Tyranocyte unequivocally.
10. A Decurion with a core around 600 pts that gives an option other than griblies. Maybe two or three Core choices. One of them griblies for sure, but with an option to focus on midsize like warriors or genesteelers, and or an option to focus on lesser used ground pounder MCs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:
I second living Artilery. Incredibly useful with pinning, and more useful as Fexes are best at short ranges whereas the LAN usually is effective from turn 1 and is cheaper. Id say a hypertoxic node, cad and lam would be very effective, especially with 2-3 flyrants.

I have three tyrants, but have not decided on whether to make them all flying. The hypertoxic tyrant has the miasma cannon, because how do you pass up a chance at an Instant Death template, so that is a mixed bag with wings.The LAN would give me enough points to make a choice between tyranocytes and a fortress of some kind and more wings.
At anyrate thank you both for the quick response.

 Redleg wrote:

5. Wings biomorph should take an arm slot. Part of what is wrong with the dex is how much better than everything a flyrant is. Also its on the model that way. I would like to see it available to primes as well unless they bring back the parasite of mortex.

Flyrants have the leg slot free, so the second set of devourers can go there.

 Solosam47 wrote:
Any news yet on the purebreed genestealers? I am hoping they will be getting some sort off buff in the genecult, would be happy if its even just simple like run and charge in same turn. As for the patriarch knowing only telepathy, eh im cool with it, it offers stuff nids dont normally have. Plus Hit and run on him is a nice addition with a squad of genestealers.

Also I feel like these rules will change a tad when their actual codex drops. That patriarch just seems too generic to be an HQ for an army.

Which is really weird because he is called Patriarch Ghosar....really hoping that he is not unique as if he is worth taking at all, then he should be worth taking as two or three of him to help get invis and/or shrouding. Even more gravy if he can somehow use Psychic Shriek.

If that IC Patriach can BB with nids, and if I read it correctly confers hit and run AND stealth on them, then that makes a Skytyrant formation look very tasty if he is running with them. I'd probably take him that alone (assuing he is sub-100 points), the telepathy level 2 is just gravy.

That would raise a few dubious looks since the Tyrant is a MC but not an IC.

Can we take a moment to realise that BS0 essentially nullified Psychic Shriek lol.

 torgoch wrote:
If that IC Patriach can BB with nids, and if I read it correctly confers hit and run AND stealth on them, then that makes a Skytyrant formation look very tasty if he is running with them. I'd probably take him that alone (assuing he is sub-100 points), the telepathy level 2 is just gravy.

Sadly the Skytyrant has an MC in it so I don't see a way to attach an IC to it.

But, as a source of WC and possibly Invis/shrouding he would still be a worthy addition.

 luke1705 wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
Any news yet on the purebreed genestealers? I am hoping they will be getting some sort off buff in the genecult, would be happy if its even just simple like run and charge in same turn. As for the patriarch knowing only telepathy, eh im cool with it, it offers stuff nids dont normally have. Plus Hit and run on him is a nice addition with a squad of genestealers.

Also I feel like these rules will change a tad when their actual codex drops. That patriarch just seems too generic to be an HQ for an army.

Which is really weird because he is called Patriarch Ghosar....really hoping that he is not unique as if he is worth taking at all, then he should be worth taking as two or three of him to help get invis and/or shrouding. Even more gravy if he can somehow use Psychic Shriek.

I hope he isn't unique either, i'm guessing they just threw the name on there for fluff purposes for new players to just kind of relate or something.

The BS0 ..... is BS.....why give him telepathy at all if he cannot use all of its powers?

The preview of the cults rules right now are kinda meh to me. They dont seem to stand out too much but of course there are a few more datasheets to see before final judgment is made. Either way in the end I am going to try to get two sets of the cults and wait patiently for their actual codex to drop which should bring more toys and ways to work with the nids. I predict GW will wait maybe a month or two before we see the deathwatch codex followed by the genecult.

Edit: Shot in the dark here but Forgeworld should release rules for a genecult Knight like they did for chaos

Because Telepathy is far more than only Psychic Shriek, specially to a mastery level 2 unit.

 Tyran wrote:
Because Telepathy is far more than only Psychic Shriek, specially to a mastery level 2 unit.

I get that, its just one of those things that is more of an annoyance cause GW is just trolling

That BS0 is part of the reasoning behind his points. Imagine if your adding ballistic skill to a psyker, hit and run, stealth, IC. It's exponentially more costly then it would be for say....a zoanthrope, or a termagant.

To reach BS 3/4/5 it would make the character another 10-30 points expensive I expect. So if I can get a close combat beast with the potential for shrouding/invisibility for 20 points cheaper then if he can shoot psychic shriek. It's a deal.

I would more likely tend to roll that first dice for power and if I get invisibility, I'm going to roll that second dice on another table, because psychic focus is useless.

 seapheonix wrote:
That BS0 is part of the reasoning behind his points. Imagine if your adding ballistic skill to a psyker, hit and run, stealth, IC. It's exponentially more costly then it would be for say....a zoanthrope, or a termagant.

To reach BS 3/4/5 it would make the character another 10-30 points expensive I expect. So if I can get a close combat beast with the potential for shrouding/invisibility for 20 points cheaper then if he can shoot psychic shriek. It's a deal.

I would more likely tend to roll that first dice for power and if I get invisibility, I'm going to roll that second dice on another table, because psychic focus is useless.

Thats a good point didnt think of it that way, thanks.

I believe unfortunately he only knows telepathy so both rolls on just that table.

 jifel wrote:

 torgoch wrote:
If that IC Patriach can BB with nids, and if I read it correctly confers hit and run AND stealth on them, then that makes a Skytyrant formation look very tasty if he is running with them. I'd probably take him that alone (assuing he is sub-100 points), the telepathy level 2 is just gravy.

Sadly the Skytyrant has an MC in it so I don't see a way to attach an IC to it.

But, as a source of WC and possibly Invis/shrouding he would still be a worthy addition.

I don't understand, the SkyTyrant Formation contains two units of Gargoyles...why can't an IC join?

Because IC can't join units that contain MC or vehicles.

Yeah, normally you'd be able to get around it by saying "the Patriarch will join first, then the Hive Tyrant will join", like you technically can do with a unit of Tyrant Guard, for instance. But the Skytyrant specifies all the models in the formation are one unit, not that they must join each other.

Ah, forgot about that rule. Cheers!

 Tyran wrote:
Because IC can't join units that contain MC or vehicles.

Ah, missed that.

 seapheonix wrote:
That BS0 is part of the reasoning behind his points. Imagine if your adding ballistic skill to a psyker, hit and run, stealth, IC. It's exponentially more costly then it would be for say....a zoanthrope, or a termagant.

To reach BS 3/4/5 it would make the character another 10-30 points expensive I expect. So if I can get a close combat beast with the potential for shrouding/invisibility for 20 points cheaper then if he can shoot psychic shriek. It's a deal.

I would more likely tend to roll that first dice for power and if I get invisibility, I'm going to roll that second dice on another table, because psychic focus is useless.

a white scars librarian on a bike is 110 points and can pretty much do all of that, for point of reference, in addition to moving 12" and jinking and skilled rider and re-rolling run moves and hammer of wrath at +1S, and having a force weapon stock.

Gigasnail:

Well my natural response to that is soooo full of persecution complex.

(Well that's space marines, to become a tyranid you must double in cost and lost at least one stat completely. Also your relic must cost three times as much and only effect you in combat.)


So I think that models have to be taken codex by codex due to the disparity in base costing of everything. Codex creators don't interact with each other obviously, or that same said white scars librarian with the hunters eye would have been 10,000 points. (Or at least around 200)

If I took that white scars librarian, and I reduced his BS from 5 to 0. I expect his cost would drop by 15-40 points, and he would still be super worth it. (Look at the tau buffmander.)

If we were to take the patriarch and ad BS I would expect his cost to shoot up 10-30 points. I would prefer the benefits available to the Patriarch for cheaper since an IC with buffs is sorely missing.

Wow. Genetealer cult formation and rules was leaked. What do you guys think about them? It screams infiltrating and deep strike based army to me.

Might need it's style of list build based on super fast models.

Yeah Jim has coined a term for this:

Maximum Threat Overload

This is what the Genestealer Cult rules will enable. Armywide infiltrate + stealth + shrouded is pretty nasty. What is going to be really important is getting more purestrain genestealers. They are great shock troops but 2 dudes per squad....well that isn't quite enough lol. If you can get a 10-15 man squad and infiltrate with the Patriarch....it'll be a good time. But sadly that isn't going to happen until the broodkin codex comes out (or the Tyranid codex is updated).

Overall, this looks super promising. I am very excited about having an inivisible Dimachaeron....a squad of invisible Carnifexes....or both