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Tyran wrote:Hopefully we will have a new codex for the next year.

Dozer Blades wrote:That's what we really need - a solid codex well thought so we have lots of great units again and strong themes... Not having to rely upon five Flyrants.

Let's hope it either balances shooty and melee, or makes Melee better again.

More importantly than that, I would like a balanced codex.

We are probably the army with the highest number of units, we don't even need more units for the next codex (aside of a garganatuan creature which probably will be a Dominatrix).

But the problem is that 95% of that units are crap.

 Tyran wrote:
More importantly than that, I would like a balanced codex.

We are probably the army with the highest number of units, we don't even need more units for the next codex (aside of a garganatuan creature which probably will be a Dominatrix).

But the problem is that 95% of that units are crap.

Completely agreed. This is why my biggest fear is that they do a Tau on us and just re-release the codex with no edits... That said, even a decurion should help with getting us some special rules for things, but we'll probably have to take them in ridiculous numbers.

Benlisted wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
More importantly than that, I would like a balanced codex.

We are probably the army with the highest number of units, we don't even need more units for the next codex (aside of a garganatuan creature which probably will be a Dominatrix).

But the problem is that 95% of that units are crap.

Completely agreed. This is why my biggest fear is that they do a Tau on us and just re-release the codex with no edits... That said, even a decurion should help with getting us some special rules for things, but we'll probably have to take them in ridiculous numbers.

We need a Necron, no new units, but a lot of changes that make most of the codex viable.

Although I wonder, which would be the basic special rule for our "decurion" (probably it is going to be "Devouring Swarm Detachment", or at least it will have "Swarm" in it.)?

 Tyran wrote:

Benlisted wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
More importantly than that, I would like a balanced codex.

We are probably the army with the highest number of units, we don't even need more units for the next codex (aside of a garganatuan creature which probably will be a Dominatrix).

But the problem is that 95% of that units are crap.

Completely agreed. This is why my biggest fear is that they do a Tau on us and just re-release the codex with no edits... That said, even a decurion should help with getting us some special rules for things, but we'll probably have to take them in ridiculous numbers.

We need a Necron, no new units, but a lot of changes that make most of the codex viable.

Although I wonder, which would be the basic special rule for our "decurion" (probably it is going to be "Devouring Swarm Detachment", or at least it will have "Swarm" in it.)?

Well, this is pure speculation on my part, but I'm betting on a "units in synapse range may run + charge" type of rule. They've started to reintroduce that mechanic, and we would benefit a lot from that, especially with our slower assault units, who would then have a reason to buy adrenal glands. I have so many dreams of what this army could be, I wish I could be the one to rewrite it! Sadly, this probably isnt the thread for that though.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

Tyran wrote:Hopefully we will have a new codex for the next year.

Dozer Blades wrote:That's what we really need - a solid codex well thought so we have lots of great units again and strong themes... Not having to rely upon five Flyrants.

Let's hope it either balances shooty and melee, or makes Melee better again.

 Tyran wrote:
More importantly than that, I would like a balanced codex.

We are probably the army with the highest number of units, we don't even need more units for the next codex (aside of a garganatuan creature which probably will be a Dominatrix).

But the problem is that 95% of that units are crap.

One of the biggest problems of our book is that we are a melee army who actually sucks in melee. I'd like our new dex to address this issue. Basically, what we need is more resiliency on the ground and more speed for our assault units.

Some of my wish-list suggestions to make assault more viable:

1. Grenades, especially for units like genestealers, either included or as an option.

2. The ability to run and assault. Perhaps as the Primaris psychic power or maybe a unit's special rules (ymgarls, anyone?).

3. Synapse also providing +1 to any existing FNP (or 6+ FNP if none).

4. Cheaper assault units, especially units like genestealers, Tyranid Warriors, Shrikes, Raveners and some of the TMC's.

5. Bring back options like Extended Carapace (+1 to armor saves) or perhaps Stealth for certain units.

6. Access to Biomancy powers.

7. +1W to Hive Tyrants.

8. Option for Invuln saves, especially in melee (say, for our Hive Tyrants).

9. Options for re-rolls to hit in CC.

10. Have tervigons give the gants they spawn the benefits of Adrenal Glands/Toxin Sacs again.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jifel wrote:

Well, this is pure speculation on my part, but I'm betting on a "units in synapse range may run + charge" type of rule. They've started to reintroduce that mechanic, and we would benefit a lot from that, especially with our slower assault units, who would then have a reason to buy adrenal glands. I have so many dreams of what this army could be, I wish I could be the one to rewrite it! Sadly, this probably isnt the thread for that though.

That would be real cool.

And since they are giving out a lot of freebies, maybe a formation that gives our TMC's some free upgrades (like Regen)?

Regeneration, instead of some never used version of IWND, should be FNP and IWND

Nice wish list JY2...it adresses the issues, and avoids being too much.

I agree as well that Formations could be a good way to give boosts, like the " in fluff only" ability of Hives to adapt to a foe,,,so a Carapace Brood gets the extended as its special boost etc...

Sadly jy2, to my knowledge, doesn't work on the GW design team.
I actually want an Eldar style release. Not their power level no, but a release where practically any unit in the book could be taken and it would still perform in most if not all games.

Exactly, and Eldar/Necron release as their internal balance is the best GW ever produced.

Tau is pretty solid as well too. Sure there are some standouts, but the formations make pretty much everything viable (sorry Kroot/Vespid).

Daemons have a decent amount of versatile builds, if nothing else because of their relics that can make just about anything viable with a 3++ or a 2++

I pretty much agree with everything you pointed out jy2. I really feel GW needs to dedicate at least one of their development team to Tyranids... It's so off track now starting with the fifth edition codex. The codex is Flyrant now which is not fun to play against and really is showing its age. I think we would all like one book with everything in it. I'd love to see synaspe grant Eternal Warrior again - that would fix many things and not be overpowered.

 Tyran wrote:
Regeneration, instead of some never used version of IWND, should be FNP and IWND

But Regen is fluffy on Tyranids. Just like Reanimation Protocols on Necrons instead of FNP for them.

Besides, you can have BOTH Regen AND FNP on a TMC if the rules are separate.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Sadly jy2, to my knowledge, doesn't work on the GW design team.
I actually want an Eldar style release. Not their power level no, but a release where practically any unit in the book could be taken and it would still perform in most if not all games.

I would like to see both a tweak in their rules as well as a Decurion-style Tyranid build.

Currently, our codex is a 25/50/25 good/mediocre/bad mix. I see the Eldar as 70/20/10 good/mediocre/bad. I'd settle for a 50/25/25 good/mediocre/bad mix for the new bugs. I want an improvement but not to the level of Eldar. Their codex is just an anomaly in that the designers made them too good.

 Tyran wrote:
Exactly, and Eldar/Necron release as their internal balance is the best GW ever produced.

Necrons are ok, but IMO, Eldar is badly balanced in that they are too good. Their codex has very little weakness and way too many ultra-efficient units.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 luke1705 wrote:
Tau is pretty solid as well too. Sure there are some standouts, but the formations make pretty much everything viable (sorry Kroot/Vespid).

Daemons have a decent amount of versatile builds, if nothing else because of their relics that can make just about anything viable with a 3++ or a 2++

Tau is better than solid. They got to keep all their cool and excellent toys from yesteryear and on top of that, they got a lot of new and very good toys as well. And they were already a very good codex before their latest update.

I'll reserve judgement about Daemons for when I actually see their new "Decurion" formations/rules.

 jy2 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Regeneration, instead of some never used version of IWND, should be FNP and IWND

But Regen is fluffy on Tyranids. Just like Reanimation Protocols on Necrons instead of FNP for them.

Besides, you can have BOTH Regen AND FNP on a TMC if the rules are separate.

The problem is that I have never seen someone use Regen. And a "save" not so different from FNP or RP would be IMHO the best way to implement it.

That's because Regen is way over-priced if you have to pay for it. However, if it was included in some type of formation that gave free upgrades....well, you know.....

Of course, all of this is completely in the "what-if" category with regards to the new Tyranid formations.

 jy2 wrote:
That's because Regen is way over-priced if you have to pay for it. However, if it was included in some type of formation that gave free upgrades....well, you know.....

Of course, all of this is completely in the "what-if" category with regards to the new Tyranid formations.

Even if it were not overpriced, it still runs into the problem that TMC die too fast for it to be effective.

And I would like that its use isn't limited to a "free upgrades" formation.

 Tyran wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Regeneration, instead of some never used version of IWND, should be FNP and IWND

But Regen is fluffy on Tyranids. Just like Reanimation Protocols on Necrons instead of FNP for them.

Besides, you can have BOTH Regen AND FNP on a TMC if the rules are separate.

The problem is that I have never seen someone use Regen. And a "save" not so different from FNP or RP would be IMHO the best way to implement it.

Not true! I have used regeneration in a competitive list... once.

Regen on the Tyrant in a skytyrant swarm is, in my opinion, worth it as he will be taking on melee characters and its not hard for him to take an occasional wound this way but will also be very hard to focus fire out of the middle of a 40 man blob. Even then, I'm not sold on the 30 points and when in doubt I'll drop it if I need the points. But, yes it's way too expensive for what is a very small chance of being effective. I mean considering that most other races can get an invulnerable save on their HQs for much cheaper, there's no reason for what is essentially a once-per-game-turn FNP roll to cost more than a Storm Shield. Because it does combo with FNP technically, I would be willing to give Regen a hard look for 15 points, but 10 would be optimal. That's me though.

SS are undercosted though, they should be at least 25 imo, or provide a 4++.

But drop terminators in price to offset the price hike of the SS

 jy2 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Tau is pretty solid as well too. Sure there are some standouts, but the formations make pretty much everything viable (sorry Kroot/Vespid).

Daemons have a decent amount of versatile builds, if nothing else because of their relics that can make just about anything viable with a 3++ or a 2++

Tau is better than solid. They got to keep all their cool and excellent toys from yesteryear and on top of that, they got a lot of new and very good toys as well. And they were already a very good codex before their latest update.

I'll reserve judgement about Daemons for when I actually see their new "Decurion" formations/rules.

In short, they got full-fledged psychic disciplines and a ton of new relics. Things of note:

A khorne relic that forces a model which takes an unsaved wound to be removed from play (but pull a St Celestine and roll a 4+ to re-enter play on each subsequent turn, but as a separate unit technically, and I don't believe it could ever rejoin the original unit unless it was an IC). Blood tithe ahoy.

A nurgle relic that reduces the toughness of anyone who isn't a daemon of nurgle within 6" of the bearer by 1

A nurgle relic that reduces the leadership of all enemy models by 1 while the bearer is on the board

A nurgle AP 2 ignores cover instant death focussed witchfire which wounds by comparing the d6 roll to the number of wounds that the model currently has - if you roll higher, it takes a wound (and then, you know, probably dies from instant death)

A nurgle blessing that increases the toughness of a single unit of nurgle daemons by 1, 2 or 3 depending on whether it was cast as WC 1, 2 or 3 respectively. Sweet baby Dronestar.

A tzeentch relic that gives the bearer a 3++, but if he takes a wound, it's LD test or remove from play

A tzeentch relic that allows your warlord to know the entire tzeentch discipline (which now has 6 powers) if he takes all of his powers from that discipline. Interestingly, this relic does not have to be purchased by your warlord. Because reasons?

A disc of tzeentch that lets you auto pass a reserves roll each turn

A lot of good witchfires if you roll well (most are str d6 + something)

A str d witchfire (is WC 3 though and only 18" assault 1)


Turned out to be longer than I thought, but you don't even need to take the daemon decurion to get access. These are all available IN ADDITION to the normal daemon relics, (they count as a relic, so you can't take one on a model with a grim for example) but anyone who can take rewards can take them AND they don't count towards the model's limit for points spent on rewards. Daemons got a lot of great options, and they weren't lacking in the first place either.


On a more tyranid-related note (though I do believe that we should know our enemy) this gives me a lot of hope that our codex (whenever it is released) will get some good things like this.

Wait what, new Daemon rules?

 luke1705 wrote:

Spoiler:

 jy2 wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:
Tau is pretty solid as well too. Sure there are some standouts, but the formations make pretty much everything viable (sorry Kroot/Vespid).

Daemons have a decent amount of versatile builds, if nothing else because of their relics that can make just about anything viable with a 3++ or a 2++

Tau is better than solid. They got to keep all their cool and excellent toys from yesteryear and on top of that, they got a lot of new and very good toys as well. And they were already a very good codex before their latest update.

I'll reserve judgement about Daemons for when I actually see their new "Decurion" formations/rules.

In short, they got full-fledged psychic disciplines and a ton of new relics. Things of note:

A khorne relic that forces a model which takes an unsaved wound to be removed from play (but pull a St Celestine and roll a 4+ to re-enter play on each subsequent turn, but as a separate unit technically, and I don't believe it could ever rejoin the original unit unless it was an IC). Blood tithe ahoy.

A nurgle relic that reduces the toughness of anyone who isn't a daemon of nurgle within 6" of the bearer by 1

A nurgle relic that reduces the leadership of all enemy models by 1 while the bearer is on the board

A nurgle AP 2 ignores cover instant death focussed witchfire which wounds by comparing the d6 roll to the number of wounds that the model currently has - if you roll higher, it takes a wound (and then, you know, probably dies from instant death)

A nurgle blessing that increases the toughness of a single unit of nurgle daemons by 1, 2 or 3 depending on whether it was cast as WC 1, 2 or 3 respectively. Sweet baby Dronestar.

A tzeentch relic that gives the bearer a 3++, but if he takes a wound, it's LD test or remove from play

A tzeentch relic that allows your warlord to know the entire tzeentch discipline (which now has 6 powers) if he takes all of his powers from that discipline. Interestingly, this relic does not have to be purchased by your warlord. Because reasons?

A disc of tzeentch that lets you auto pass a reserves roll each turn

A lot of good witchfires if you roll well (most are str d6 + something)

A str d witchfire (is WC 3 though and only 18" assault 1)


Turned out to be longer than I thought, but you don't even need to take the daemon decurion to get access. These are all available IN ADDITION to the normal daemon relics, (they count as a relic, so you can't take one on a model with a grim for example) but anyone who can take rewards can take them AND they don't count towards the model's limit for points spent on rewards. Daemons got a lot of great options, and they weren't lacking in the first place either.


On a more tyranid-related note (though I do believe that we should know our enemy) this gives me a lot of hope that our codex (whenever it is released) will get some good things like this.

Thanks!

I've actually ordered the new Campaign book but it just haven't arrived yet.

 Tyran wrote:
Wait what, new Daemon rules?

The new Curse of the Wulfen campaign book also has rules for the new Daemon "Decurion" formations.

The new Ork rules are leaking in and as an Ork player, I'm not just disappointed but seriously considering hanging up my Orks. The rules and three brand new formations aren't even worth a second glance.

With that said, if this is the trend GW intends to go in (taking formations from previous books and making Decurions with sub-par rules compared to everything else that has been published) then I'm extremely pessimistic for what Tyranids will get.

On the plus side, we get Genestealer Cult (which apparently has a ML2 Patriarch that can roll on telepathy). I am excited. If they keep this trend up, who knows what could happen? (But I know they are so hit or miss sadly - case in point Orks)

 luke1705 wrote:
On the plus side, we get Genestealer Cult (which apparently has a ML2 Patriarch that can roll on telepathy). I am excited. If they keep this trend up, who knows what could happen? (But I know they are so hit or miss sadly - case in point Orks)

And, another very big thing - it's an IC with hit and run, fearless and stealth (this is confirmed in the pics whilst the telepathy is a bit more blurry). Ohhhh boy this is exciting...

The genestealer cult is making me so happy! Hopefully it offers a better way to play genestealers part of that army. That with the addition of new cheap WC source gots me excited like a little bumblebee

Don't we already have 50pt WC2 batteries with Zoanthropes? I'm going to assume the Patriarch will be more expensive than that.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't we already have 50pt WC2 batteries with Zoanthropes? I'm going to assume the Patriarch will be more expensive than that.

Good point, silly me I forgot all about them. I guess more than anything im just happy to hopefully have an army I can ally into my nids.

 Solosam47 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't we already have 50pt WC2 batteries with Zoanthropes? I'm going to assume the Patriarch will be more expensive than that.

Good point, silly me I forgot all about them. I guess more than anything im just happy to hopefully have an army I can ally into my nids.

Same here. Would be very interesting if he is an IC that can roll on Telepathy. Invisibility(that's telepathy right) might be useful for Tyranids.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't we already have 50pt WC2 batteries with Zoanthropes? I'm going to assume the Patriarch will be more expensive than that.

Good point, silly me I forgot all about them. I guess more than anything im just happy to hopefully have an army I can ally into my nids.

Same here. Would be very interesting if he is an IC that can roll on Telepathy. Invisibility(that's telepathy right) might be useful for Tyranids.

Telepathy and Biomancy would be awesome!
Could potentially get new nid powers period, probably not with this release but when they drop the genestealers faction as a whole. Seeing how daemons got a rework of powers recently without a new dex the opportunity for them to give new nid powers to us is there.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Don't we already have 50pt WC2 batteries with Zoanthropes? I'm going to assume the Patriarch will be more expensive than that.

If they could roll on telepathy, were decent in combat and were IC, you'd have a decent point. As is, the thropes are 0-3

It doesn't appear that he can roll on biomancy but that's ok. Those tend to be more personal buffs.