Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/02/03 14:16:38
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
EDIT: @jy2, I fully understand how Tau trouble the Skytyrant, but how exactly does a CentStar do so? I've found it to be absolutely brutal against SM so far. Even without a VSG, a centstar wounding on 6s (I'll assume they're TL from prescience) kills 4 gargoyles if they lack FNP, which they will very likely have. Including FNP, it's 2.71. Very easy for a flyrant to Look out sir those and pull some scrubs, and at that point a 12" move and run means a Centstar is getting two rounds of shooting at best (very often one only) before they get absolutely murdered in CC. Add a VSG and a skytyrant can laugh off a centstar with ease. The small compliment of Librarians a Centstar usually includes is no threat to the Skytyrant, and with a little bit of buffing can take down a CM, but that is far more risky. (A charging skytyrant against a PF/Shield Eternal CM does 4.1 wounds in 3 turns of CC, which allows the CM to strike back at him twice. The CM does 3.3 wounds in that time, if there are no Psychic powers in play (and getting Paroxysm or Catalyst off is fairly likely here), which the Flyrant will have a chance to Regen after the first round of combat. Anything that isn't EW gets swamped by weight of S8 attacks and dies.
As someone who runs both Tyranids and the Centstar (and not just any ordinary Centstar, but a super-Centstar), Tyranids really don't have much of an answer to this type of build other than A) Void Shield Generator and B) a bunch of mawlocs (one of the reasons why I run so many mawlocs in my list currently). Assuming no VSG, the centstar is wounding the Skytyrant on 3's due to majority T3 with their Hurricane Bolters. You get no cover saves due to the White Scar's relic, the Hunter's Eye. You cannot lock it in combat due to Hit-&-Run (White Scars Librarius Conclave or CAD) or Gate (Draigo). Draigo will tank all the wounds by the Flyrant with his 2+/3++ 4W Eternal Warrior stats. Oh, by the ways, did I mention that he has a Force Weapon and that he will issue a challenge if you don't? Any Maledictions you cast, the centstar is denying on 4+'s (Lvl 3 librarian character) with re-roll's of 1's (Aegis).
If you run a VSG, I'd just 1) Gate to close by and then 2) Levitate into VSG range via Sevrin Loth (he gets to pick his powers). Or if not, after Gating, I let you assault me and then I Hit-&-Run within VSG range. And yes, I have been picking Levitate over Invisibility in probably 4 out of 5 games with Loth.
The super-centstar is just bad news to any Tyranid unit that isn't flying.
I can understand why a Draigo led CentStar can be an issue for Tyranids, but that's a very specific type that I personally am not seeing in the Meta much anymore. Nowadays, I'm more seeing a tanky CM and Librarians (someone having Hunters eye of course) so that you're not spending three detachments on Red Scorpions/White Scars/Grey Knights. By the way, if you are actually running that star, I will simply charge you and tarpit you for the rest of the game as Loth and White Scars are different chapter tactics. A Draigo/WS star would scare me much more for that reason. And yes, going up against Draigo with force activated would indeed be a pain in the rear, certainly not what I want to deal with. But, I would throw all of my dice at Force if I'm setting up a charge, and it's hard to reliably pass it while also casting a couple of other powers. Certainly not an optimal matchup, I think a Draigo/WS CentStar would be very difficult to deal with, but I am relatively confident I could stay in my VSG while keeping you out of it, and if I have managed to block Force, I am taking that charge. If not, I simply use my mobility to wait a turn before I charge, and then try and make it, (and hopefully Mawlocs will at least put a scratch on you by then). It's a game I would love to play out, as it'd certainly be a challenging one, but I honestly haven't seen Draigo in a star in a long time. The charging gargoyles probably drop one Cent, I'd need good dice to take out more than that, and if you only have WS you're very likely to H&R away and go shoot something else with much of their firepower intact. Honestly if I couldn't drop Force by round 2/3 I'd probably lose that matchup as I'd be unable to charge you and I don't have enough Mawlocs to completely bury you in pieplates. At that point, we'd see how long it took you to kill the rest of the normal Flyrants and how much of your support I could kill in that time.
2016/02/09 01:58:50
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Just a few stats from the LVO 2016 with regards to Tyranids:
There were only 12 Tyranids players out of 296 players. That is only 4%. Space Marines had the highest number of players with 54 (18.2%), followed by Eldar with 50 (16.9%).
The highest placing Tyranid player went 4-2 and finished in 43rd place (out of 296).
Only 4 of the 12 Tyranid players made it to the Top 100 players.
Average rankings for all the Tyranid players was 173 out of 296!!! Ouch! (Average is 148.)
One of the reasons why Tyranids did not do well at the LVO was because many of the top Tyranid players didn't run Tyranids there. I brought Chaos Daemons/Chaos Space Marines. Geoff aka iNcontrol brought Admech (War Convocation) and last years winner, Sean Nayden, brought Eldar/Dark Eldar.
Tag, jifel and others....we need you guys at the next LVO to help bump up our averages.
jy2 wrote: Just a few stats from the LVO 2016 with regards to Tyranids:
There were only 12 Tyranids players out of 296 players. That is only 4%. Space Marines had the highest number of players with 54 (18.2%), followed by Eldar with 50 (16.9%).
The highest placing Tyranid player went 4-2 and finished in 43rd place (out of 296).
Only 4 of the 12 Tyranid players made it to the Top 100 players.
Average rankings for all the Tyranid players was 173 out of 296!!! Ouch! (Average is 148.)
One of the reasons why Tyranids did not do well at the LVO was because many of the top Tyranid players didn't run Tyranids there. I brought Chaos Daemons/Chaos Space Marines. Geoff aka iNcontrol brought Admech (War Convocation) and last years winner, Sean Nayden, brought Eldar/Dark Eldar.
Tag, jifel and others....we need you guys at the next LVO to help bump up our averages.
LVO is a lifelong (ok, past few years) dream of mine, our local gang has decided to move our conquest out to new states besides Florida soon though, I think we'll be starting in Texas this summer for WarGamesCon, then ATC as usual. Sadly the LVO is just not at a good time for me, but BAO would be more workable... We shall see! College and the Air Force constantly conspire to keep me from my true love.
By the way, has FLG put up the final standings/lists? Curious what the Nid players brought.
2016/02/09 04:49:23
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
No worries. One of these days, you really should check out the LVO. So much to do and that is besides the gaming. Heck, you'd have a blast at Vegas even without the 40K.
Unfortunately, only the Top 8 lists were posted. The LVO didn't require nor did they take lists from the competitors. The only info they recorded down were the factions of the players.
jy2 wrote: No worries. One of these days, you really should check out the LVO. So much to do and that is besides the gaming. Heck, you'd have a blast at Vegas even without the 40K.
Unfortunately, only the Top 8 lists were posted. The LVO didn't require nor did they take lists from the competitors. The only info they recorded down were the factions of the players.
And you should really come out to Florida. A great vacation spot for all, not to mention three quality GTs a year (with a new one starting this May).But, back to Nids! I'll dig through the Tyranid pages and see if I can find the top players list.
2016/02/09 05:01:48
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
jy2 wrote: No worries. One of these days, you really should check out the LVO. So much to do and that is besides the gaming. Heck, you'd have a blast at Vegas even without the 40K.
Unfortunately, only the Top 8 lists were posted. The LVO didn't require nor did they take lists from the competitors. The only info they recorded down were the factions of the players.
And you should really come out to Florida. A great vacation spot for all, not to mention three quality GTs a year (with a new one starting this May).But, back to Nids! I'll dig through the Tyranid pages and see if I can find the top players list.
I actually would love to, that is, if I can convince she-who-must-be-obeyed to go there for vaca. Too bad she's had her eyes set on Europe the last couple of years and on Asia for later this year, but one of these days, I will make it to a GT in Sunshine State.
Yeah I was one of the bottom placing Tyranid players, sorry for skewing our results I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
Dropped after round 4 to experience Vegas (my first time there) rather than try and scrap my way back to 3-3 and be wiped Saturday night. Tried out endless swarm and lack of obsec was huge, as was a number of major mistakes and table numbers causing every single opponent to be ~15 min late. Hormies did their job though so I may play around with em more locally in a CAD now that I am back playing in tournaments - but think for the bigger ITC events I'll be taking Talon Strike force and shelving my bugs.
Oh and it was cool to finally meet you jy2 after following your batreps for so long. Look forward to your batreping once again!
Edit -- my list in case anyone was curious (not sure why you would be but what the hell)
jy2 wrote: I actually would love to, that is, if I can convince she-who-must-be-obeyed to go there for vaca. Too bad she's had her eyes set on Europe the last couple of years and on Asia for later this year, but one of these days, I will make it to a GT in Sunshine State.
Asia is a great experience for the history, culture, and food . I traveled Korea for 12 days back in 2012, Sichuan Province & Beijing, China for 14 days last summer, and will be visiting Japan in late May.
winterman wrote: Yeah I was one of the bottom placing Tyranid players, sorry for skewing our results I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
Dropped after round 4 to experience Vegas (my first time there) rather than try and scrap my way back to 3-3 and be wiped Saturday night. Tried out endless swarm and lack of obsec was huge, as was a number of major mistakes and table numbers causing every single opponent to be ~15 min late. Hormies did their job though so I may play around with em more locally in a CAD now that I am back playing in tournaments - but think for the bigger ITC events I'll be taking Talon Strike force and shelving my bugs.
Oh and it was cool to finally meet you jy2 after following your batreps for so long. Look forward to your batreping once again!
Edit -- my list in case anyone was curious (not sure why you would be but what the hell)
Interested in the choice of AG for your hormas - why did you opt for it over poison? From the sounds of it it seems like it did reasonably well for you too?
2016/02/10 01:18:37
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
winterman wrote: Yeah I was one of the bottom placing Tyranid players, sorry for skewing our results I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
Dropped after round 4 to experience Vegas (my first time there) rather than try and scrap my way back to 3-3 and be wiped Saturday night. Tried out endless swarm and lack of obsec was huge, as was a number of major mistakes and table numbers causing every single opponent to be ~15 min late. Hormies did their job though so I may play around with em more locally in a CAD now that I am back playing in tournaments - but think for the bigger ITC events I'll be taking Talon Strike force and shelving my bugs.
Oh and it was cool to finally meet you jy2 after following your batreps for so long. Look forward to your batreping once again!
Edit -- my list in case anyone was curious (not sure why you would be but what the hell)
Interested in the choice of AG for your hormas - why did you opt for it over poison? From the sounds of it it seems like it did reasonably well for you too?
AG was because of the rise in battle company popularity -- I can deal with a lot of stuff poison would help with purely by tarpit -- but not a horde of obsec tanks. Without those extra flyrants I found I needed something extra. Also poison would have cost me another 60 points which is hard is to come by. It is definitely something I mulled over and poison would have helped a bit in game 2 against whitescars+ironpriests but otherwise I don't regret the decision.
I may have oversold how well it does (I lost 3 straight games day one, so by no means did things go well lol).
I think there's a place for hormagants due to how well they control the board and mesh with the void shield and malanthropes combo. There's some cool factor to it as well imo. But it still struggled to win games against your typical tau and eldar stuff and per usual its tough to get a full game in at tournaments when you have a lot of models. So unless you are a glutton for punishment or bored of the usual tyranid stuff I wouldn't recommend it.
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2016/02/12 03:18:00
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
jy2 wrote: Tag, jifel and others....we need you guys at the next LVO to help bump up our averages.
I hope to make it again. This year I'm off to Adepticon, and a metric ton of regional GT's, so I couldn't make it work.
However, to be honest, if I did go to LVO, I'd much rather do the Narrative than the championship. Those guys run an absolute blast of an event. The best event I've ever done was the Narrative at Wargamescon last year. I recommend that anyone off to Wargamescon or LVO strongly consider it.
The championship is fun too, but in the same way that any other GT is fun. The Narrative is the one-of-a-kind event.
2016/02/12 04:19:07
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I think part of it is that it's tough to keep the codex fresh. As much as I'm enjoying running 4 Flyrants with a ton of lictors and Mawlocs, there's so much stuff for Daemons (especially with the new space wolves release) as well as my Necrons that I haven't given enough love to. In truth, I'll probably wind up bringing Daemons to the next GT I go to unless my Nids are painted up nicely before then (a big if since I'm awful at painting and need to hire people haha)
2016/02/12 04:46:17
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
luke1705 wrote: I think part of it is that it's tough to keep the codex fresh. As much as I'm enjoying running 4 Flyrants with a ton of lictors and Mawlocs, there's so much stuff for Daemons (especially with the new space wolves release) as well as my Necrons that I haven't given enough love to. In truth, I'll probably wind up bringing Daemons to the next GT I go to unless my Nids are painted up nicely before then (a big if since I'm awful at painting and need to hire people haha)
Yeah. I've got Tyranids figured out. It isn't fun to me to run lists with more than 3 flyrants, so I don't, and I understand that limits me in certain matchups, but anytime I need an army that plays fast, and can compete in a tourney, I can bring out my Nids, and give it a go.
Meanwhile, I've also been playing Orks. They have as many problems as Tyranids, but it has been more challenging for me to figure out how to optimize them. So anytime I have a chance to be a little more experimental, it is Orks, and they've been taking up most of my energy. Not to mention, I got all of my Tyranids painted 1/2 through last year, and I'm still painting Orks as fast as I can.
2016/02/12 11:30:33
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
winterman wrote: Yeah I was one of the bottom placing Tyranid players, sorry for skewing our results I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
Dropped after round 4 to experience Vegas (my first time there) rather than try and scrap my way back to 3-3 and be wiped Saturday night. Tried out endless swarm and lack of obsec was huge, as was a number of major mistakes and table numbers causing every single opponent to be ~15 min late. Hormies did their job though so I may play around with em more locally in a CAD now that I am back playing in tournaments - but think for the bigger ITC events I'll be taking Talon Strike force and shelving my bugs.
Oh and it was cool to finally meet you jy2 after following your batreps for so long. Look forward to your batreping once again!
Edit -- my list in case anyone was curious (not sure why you would be but what the hell)
Interested in the choice of AG for your hormas - why did you opt for it over poison? From the sounds of it it seems like it did reasonably well for you too?
AG was because of the rise in battle company popularity -- I can deal with a lot of stuff poison would help with purely by tarpit -- but not a horde of obsec tanks. Without those extra flyrants I found I needed something extra. Also poison would have cost me another 60 points which is hard is to come by. It is definitely something I mulled over and poison would have helped a bit in game 2 against whitescars+ironpriests but otherwise I don't regret the decision.
I may have oversold how well it does (I lost 3 straight games day one, so by no means did things go well lol).
I think there's a place for hormagants due to how well they control the board and mesh with the void shield and malanthropes combo. There's some cool factor to it as well imo. But it still struggled to win games against your typical tau and eldar stuff and per usual its tough to get a full game in at tournaments when you have a lot of models. So unless you are a glutton for punishment or bored of the usual tyranid stuff I wouldn't recommend it.
I think dropping the Hormagaunts down to 15 ea and having 3x20 termagants might have been better but if that's what you had then oh well. Nice to see something that isn't Flyrant spam
winterman wrote: Yeah I was one of the bottom placing Tyranid players, sorry for skewing our results I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
Dropped after round 4 to experience Vegas (my first time there) rather than try and scrap my way back to 3-3 and be wiped Saturday night. Tried out endless swarm and lack of obsec was huge, as was a number of major mistakes and table numbers causing every single opponent to be ~15 min late. Hormies did their job though so I may play around with em more locally in a CAD now that I am back playing in tournaments - but think for the bigger ITC events I'll be taking Talon Strike force and shelving my bugs.
Oh and it was cool to finally meet you jy2 after following your batreps for so long. Look forward to your batreping once again!
Edit -- my list in case anyone was curious (not sure why you would be but what the hell)
Interested in the choice of AG for your hormas - why did you opt for it over poison? From the sounds of it it seems like it did reasonably well for you too?
AG was because of the rise in battle company popularity -- I can deal with a lot of stuff poison would help with purely by tarpit -- but not a horde of obsec tanks. Without those extra flyrants I found I needed something extra. Also poison would have cost me another 60 points which is hard is to come by. It is definitely something I mulled over and poison would have helped a bit in game 2 against whitescars+ironpriests but otherwise I don't regret the decision.
I may have oversold how well it does (I lost 3 straight games day one, so by no means did things go well lol).
I think there's a place for hormagants due to how well they control the board and mesh with the void shield and malanthropes combo. There's some cool factor to it as well imo. But it still struggled to win games against your typical tau and eldar stuff and per usual its tough to get a full game in at tournaments when you have a lot of models. So unless you are a glutton for punishment or bored of the usual tyranid stuff I wouldn't recommend it.
I think dropping the Hormagaunts down to 15 ea and having 3x20 termagants might have been better but if that's what you had then oh well. Nice to see something that isn't Flyrant spam
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 11:44:50
YMDC = nightmare
2016/02/12 14:32:49
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I've been experimenting with the endless swarm as well. As time is such a huge concern especially in the tournament setting. I found that taking fewer shooting units and just running up the board. (Most opponents are fine with you doing your run move in the movement phase which saves a boatload of time.)
The focus on hormagaunts helps create that distraction as they get to your opponents line super fast. They have to re-direct fire that would otherwise be going to your big uglies.
@winterman
How did the void shield fare? I have been taking the bunker over the void shield as I think the escape hatch is just so valuable.
Also Trygons? I found I rarely ended up using the hole. Often turns were getting to the point my reserves had only just come in, or units hadn't been wiped, etc...
~seapheonix
2016/02/12 17:57:25
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Ok hive mind, so I've got a bit of a thought puzzle for you: What have you found to be the most effective counters to Riptide formation/ghostkeels? Unfortunately my meta has adapted to me by slapping Skyfire on all three riptides, and so I am now faced with a conundrum of how to get past these guys. In 7 games since the new Tau codex came out (all against multi-tournament veterans who have prior experience against me) k have gone 3-2-2. Now, I am gearing up for an ITC style GT and trying to decide on the list I will bring. I have a list I have tested (prior to the Tau release) that I am very happy with. It revolves around 3 tyrants and a 40-man Skytyrant swarm with VSG and Venomthrope, supported by a Mawloc, 2 Lictors and some Rippers. Again, this has done extremely well for me as I've smashed SM, Eldar, Daemons and Crons with consistency. My only loss with the list so far was to an old-tau build that seized on me, and that was prior to me adding the VSG. But, new tau have the speed and firepower to, in my opinion, trash the Skytyrant without it doing much more than sink points. For the same points as that Skytyrant I could add a lot, such as 2 Flyrants and some more Lictors/Rippers/a Malanthrope. I am loathe to change over 600 points of a list that has worked very well for me, just to counter one army. Doesn't feel very TAC of me. And, being in university, I have no time to test my list before I submit it as my schedule only recently cleared to allow me to go to this GT, and my army is in another state. Right now my thoughts are to either damn the consequences and take a Skytyrant list I've used before and hope I avoid Tau (or play for points if I face them, I can definitely avoid a tabling) or I can take a list that I feel is weaker against some of the other lists out there, but that can hit Tau with enough flyrants to overwhelm them. In a field of roughly 64 people (most of whom I know) there are two players that genuinely scare me, both fielding MC/GC heavy tau lists. I expect a triptide formation in each and 1-2 Stormsurges in both lists.
So what this boils down to is, has anyone had success with Nids against skyfire heavy Tau riptide lists?
2016/02/12 19:44:29
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I think dropping the Hormagaunts down to 15 ea and having 3x20 termagants might have been better but if that's what you had then oh well. Nice to see something that isn't Flyrant spam
Thanks. I could have gone that route or something similar. Might have been better, but also a bit longer to play. Certainly would have been more aggressive with the gants due to the larger size, that alone may have helped.
seapheonix wrote: I've been experimenting with the endless swarm as well. As time is such a huge concern especially in the tournament setting. I found that taking fewer shooting units and just running up the board. (Most opponents are fine with you doing your run move in the movement phase which saves a boatload of time.)
The focus on hormagaunts helps create that distraction as they get to your opponents line super fast. They have to re-direct fire that would otherwise be going to your big uglies.
Yeah I found this as well in general, but then there's those games where your opponent is just as aggressive and you are in multiple, complex combats turn 1. That sucks time more than shooting does.
@winterman
How did the void shield fare? I have been taking the bunker over the void shield as I think the escape hatch is just so valuable.
Also Trygons? I found I rarely ended up using the hole. Often turns were getting to the point my reserves had only just come in, or units hadn't been wiped, etc...
Void shield was awesome. Easily makes the list a bit more competitive. I can see the escape hatch being highly beneficial though. Early game redeploy is obvious but would have also helped get malanthropes up the board as well, which I struggled a bit with. But I don't think I can give up the void shield now.
Trygons was purely me being stubborn and ambivalent and a bit lazy (added second one last minute due to running out of time) -- built and painted them back in 5ed and thought it'd be fun to try and make them useful. I found the same thing in general, the tunnels rarely get used (although when I got the reserve manipulation warlord trait -- magic happens). However having two gave me some options, I could keep one back to help clear the backfield or go with two in DS for missions. Overall though not worth it -- I'll finally finish up the magnetized mawloc bits in the next week or so and they'll likely never see the field as trygons again. Overall just not impressed with endless swarm -- needs obsec or some other boost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/12 19:45:26
snoogums: "Just because something is not relavant doesn't mean it goes away completely."
Iorek: "Snoogums, you're right. Your arguments are irrelevant, and they sure as heck aren't going away."
2016/02/12 20:31:56
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
I used the escape hatch as a sling shot as well. Place it 6" from the board edge and a reborn unit can embark. Then next turn they pop out 18" down the field, farther then they could ever run. (12" for hatch, 6" for disembark.
It also that first turn tends to put 20 hormagaunts at or in my enemies deployment zone 6"-9" run consistent for fleet gaunts.
~seapheonix
2016/02/12 23:54:27
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
In the fluff, Tyranids adapt to fighting conditions (example: It takes one gunshot to get a Tyranid down one time, but the next time it takes two or three). how can I represent this in games?
INSANE army lists still available!!!! Now being written in 8th edition format! I have Index Imperium 1, Index Imperium 2, Index Xenos 2, Codex Orks Codex Tyranids, Codex Blood Angels and Codex Space Marines!
PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
2016/02/13 15:11:32
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Before everybody says "do a search" theres 354 pages in this thread!
Ok, my question.
Say a Venomthrope or Malinthrope are inside a Bastion. Does the bastion get shrouded? Does it radiate 6' of shrouded. Would synapse radiate from say a Zoey inside a Bastion?
I looked through Stronghold & BRB, all I've found "is set up forts along with your other units". Nothing refers to forts as units.
i.e. the Banner of Devastation in a LR does its thing.
2016/02/13 15:36:53
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Byte wrote: Before everybody says "do a search" theres 354 pages in this thread!
Ok, my question.
Say a Venomthrope or Malinthrope are inside a Bastion. Does the bastion get shrouded? Does it radiate 6' of shrouded. Would synapse radiate from say a Zoey inside a Bastion?
I looked through Stronghold & BRB, all I've found "is set up forts along with your other units". Nothing refers to forts as units.
i.e. the Banner of Devastation in a LR does its thing.
Do a search! Or put in YMDC.
But basically:
1) Only Tyranid models get Shrouded, Bastion is not, ergo no Shrouded Bastion.
2) You do get a shrouded/synapse bubble extended from the Bastion.
YMDC = nightmare
2016/02/13 16:06:24
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Byte wrote: Before everybody says "do a search" theres 354 pages in this thread!
Ok, my question.
Say a Venomthrope or Malinthrope are inside a Bastion. Does the bastion get shrouded? Does it radiate 6' of shrouded. Would synapse radiate from say a Zoey inside a Bastion?
I looked through Stronghold & BRB, all I've found "is set up forts along with your other units". Nothing refers to forts as units.
i.e. the Banner of Devastation in a LR does its thing.
As Frozocone said, you would measure all the auras from the walls of the Bastion, but the bastion itself would not receive shrouded. Look under the embarkation rules in the BRB. Units in fortifications count as embarked.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: In the fluff, Tyranids adapt to fighting conditions (example: It takes one gunshot to get a Tyranid down one time, but the next time it takes two or three). how can I represent this in games?
Really you'd want to do that over a series of games. First game you might just use waves of Hormagaunts and other choppy Tyranids. Second game you might add a few ranged units/flying units. Next game go all-out ranged Tyranids with units such as Biovores and Tyrannofexes.
That or use the 4th edition codex.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/13 16:08:49
2016/02/13 18:35:48
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Eldar Tactica p.318 & 319)
Byte wrote: Before everybody says "do a search" theres 354 pages in this thread!
Ok, my question.
Say a Venomthrope or Malinthrope are inside a Bastion. Does the bastion get shrouded? Does it radiate 6' of shrouded. Would synapse radiate from say a Zoey inside a Bastion?
I looked through Stronghold & BRB, all I've found "is set up forts along with your other units". Nothing refers to forts as units.
i.e. the Banner of Devastation in a LR does its thing.
1. No. The Shrouded bubble affects friendly "units". A bastion is not a "unit". Ergo, the fortification itself does not benefit.
2. As others have said, yes. Emanation powers are measured from the hull of the "transport", of which the bastion functions as in most respects.
KaptinBadrukk wrote: In the fluff, Tyranids adapt to fighting conditions (example: It takes one gunshot to get a Tyranid down one time, but the next time it takes two or three). how can I represent this in games?
Endless swarm, Skyblight....basically, any formation that has recycling units. For MC's, you can represent it by giving them Regeneration.
BTW, the Hive Mind may engineer tougher monsters, but when it comes to the gribblies, it just generates more of them. So it's more like, you shoot 1 down, 2 of them comes back, then 3, then 4 and so on. Adapting to the situation means producing gants that can survive in the enviroment, not producing bullet-proof gants.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dozer Blades wrote: Wow Nidz did not do well at all at LVO this year. Oh well times change.
To be fair, none of the top players were running bugs. Just a case of too many new toys for the boys.
jifel wrote: Ok hive mind, so I've got a bit of a thought puzzle for you: What have you found to be the most effective counters to Riptide formation/ghostkeels? Unfortunately my meta has adapted to me by slapping Skyfire on all three riptides, and so I am now faced with a conundrum of how to get past these guys. In 7 games since the new Tau codex came out (all against multi-tournament veterans who have prior experience against me) k have gone 3-2-2. Now, I am gearing up for an ITC style GT and trying to decide on the list I will bring. I have a list I have tested (prior to the Tau release) that I am very happy with. It revolves around 3 tyrants and a 40-man Skytyrant swarm with VSG and Venomthrope, supported by a Mawloc, 2 Lictors and some Rippers. Again, this has done extremely well for me as I've smashed SM, Eldar, Daemons and Crons with consistency. My only loss with the list so far was to an old-tau build that seized on me, and that was prior to me adding the VSG. But, new tau have the speed and firepower to, in my opinion, trash the Skytyrant without it doing much more than sink points. For the same points as that Skytyrant I could add a lot, such as 2 Flyrants and some more Lictors/Rippers/a Malanthrope. I am loathe to change over 600 points of a list that has worked very well for me, just to counter one army. Doesn't feel very TAC of me. And, being in university, I have no time to test my list before I submit it as my schedule only recently cleared to allow me to go to this GT, and my army is in another state. Right now my thoughts are to either damn the consequences and take a Skytyrant list I've used before and hope I avoid Tau (or play for points if I face them, I can definitely avoid a tabling) or I can take a list that I feel is weaker against some of the other lists out there, but that can hit Tau with enough flyrants to overwhelm them. In a field of roughly 64 people (most of whom I know) there are two players that genuinely scare me, both fielding MC/GC heavy tau lists. I expect a triptide formation in each and 1-2 Stormsurges in both lists.
So what this boils down to is, has anyone had success with Nids against skyfire heavy Tau riptide lists?
Riptides are tough for Tyranids to deal with. There really isn't any shortcut in dealing with them, especially when the meta is tailored to fight FMC's (i.e. skyfire on all those riptides). Here are some suggestions:
1. Paroxysm is your friend. That is how you deal with skyfire units.
2. Focus-fire on a unit at a time til it dies.
3. The Void Shield Generator will actually help. The ITC has ruled that Markerlights cannot get past the VSG and hit units that are under its protection.
4. Pray you get Catalyst.
5. If he has a bunch of units clumped up, then go with Psychic Scream if you have it.
6. Play to the objectives. Your flyrants are actually the "distraction" units. While he is busy dealing with them, better wrack up those Secondary Maelstrom points in the ITC format.
jy2 wrote: Tag, jifel and others....we need you guys at the next LVO to help bump up our averages.
I hope to make it again. This year I'm off to Adepticon, and a metric ton of regional GT's, so I couldn't make it work.
However, to be honest, if I did go to LVO, I'd much rather do the Narrative than the championship. Those guys run an absolute blast of an event. The best event I've ever done was the Narrative at Wargamescon last year. I recommend that anyone off to Wargamescon or LVO strongly consider it.
The championship is fun too, but in the same way that any other GT is fun. The Narrative is the one-of-a-kind event.
Yeah, the Narrative looked like it would be a blast to play and the terrain there, OMG so awesome! But as long as it conflicts with the Championships, unfortunately, I will not be able to attend. To me, the Championships is the main attraction. When I bring bugs there, I want to show the world that bugs can still do well.
luke1705 wrote: I think part of it is that it's tough to keep the codex fresh. As much as I'm enjoying running 4 Flyrants with a ton of lictors and Mawlocs, there's so much stuff for Daemons (especially with the new space wolves release) as well as my Necrons that I haven't given enough love to. In truth, I'll probably wind up bringing Daemons to the next GT I go to unless my Nids are painted up nicely before then (a big if since I'm awful at painting and need to hire people haha)
Yeah, that is why I keep rotating armies for each tournament I go to. Rarely do I run the same army 2 tournaments in a row. I've got to show all my armies some love.
And it paid off! Won 2015-16 ITC Best Tyranids and Best Grey Knights. Was also in the Top 10 for ITC Daemons as well.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/02/13 18:52:41
What KaptinBadrukk was probably referring to was older fluff regarding the Tau vs Tyranids campaign- where the hive would evolve carapaces that were immune to their weaponry, and it became a race of arms where technology raced biology.
In the 4th dex you had Extended Carapace upgrades for Hormagaunts to improve their save(so yes, bulletproof gaunts), and every bit in the Carnifex box had a purpose besides aesthetics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/13 18:56:42
winterman wrote: Yeah I was one of the bottom placing Tyranid players, sorry for skewing our results I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
Dropped after round 4 to experience Vegas (my first time there) rather than try and scrap my way back to 3-3 and be wiped Saturday night. Tried out endless swarm and lack of obsec was huge, as was a number of major mistakes and table numbers causing every single opponent to be ~15 min late. Hormies did their job though so I may play around with em more locally in a CAD now that I am back playing in tournaments - but think for the bigger ITC events I'll be taking Talon Strike force and shelving my bugs.
Oh and it was cool to finally meet you jy2 after following your batreps for so long. Look forward to your batreping once again!
Edit -- my list in case anyone was curious (not sure why you would be but what the hell)
Great to have met you as well, Dan. I always like to put a face to the dakka persona. I didn't see your army , but I have been toying with the idea of running an Endless Swarm as well. I might try out something like that in a local, smaller RTT, but if I do, it'll probably involve a tervigon or 2 in there.
jy2 wrote: I actually would love to, that is, if I can convince she-who-must-be-obeyed to go there for vaca. Too bad she's had her eyes set on Europe the last couple of years and on Asia for later this year, but one of these days, I will make it to a GT in Sunshine State.
Asia is a great experience for the history, culture, and food . I traveled Korea for 12 days back in 2012, Sichuan Province & Beijing, China for 14 days last summer, and will be visiting Japan in late May.
Oh yeah, I've been to many parts of Asia. I'll definitely love going back there again.
What KaptinBadrukk was probably referring to was older fluff regarding the Tau vs Tyranids campaign- where the hive would evolve carapaces that were immune to their weaponry, and it became a race of arms where technology raced biology.
In the 4th dex you had Extended Carapace upgrades for Hormagaunts to improve their save(so yes, bulletproof gaunts), and every bit in the Carnifex box had a purpose besides aesthetics.
Ah...those were the good 'ole days.
I miss my godfexes and my genestealers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/02/13 19:01:11
That's what we really need - a solid codex well thought so we have lots of great units again and strong themes... Not having to rely upon five Flyrants.
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
I brought what I had and wanted to play and not try and chase the meta. If I wanted to play flying circus I'd play demons not Tyranids.
(building)
(less)
