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 cincydooley wrote:
Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this. Someone posted a review over in Background and while the review itself was not disfavorable the synopsis did make the plot sound really, really dumb.

 Manchu wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this. Someone posted a review over in Background and while the review itself was not disfavorable the synopsis did make the plot sound really, really dumb.

Yeah, I read the premise and was....unconvinced. But it's Abnett, so I'll definitely give it a chance.

Question to you all:

When it comes to reviews, how much do you look for in terms of plot synopsis. In mine, I tend to do that at a very high level and talk more about how well the plot is carried out and how well the characterization is, because I think that has a lot more to do with how good a story is, but lots of people prefer different things. I forgo full blown plot synopses mainly because I really dont want to spoil anything for anyone. I've stuck to more or less the same format as you see in the Vulkan Lives review for a while, but am certainly willing to mix things up.

Thoughts?

I like high level synopsis. I'm not reading to find out what happens. Rather I'm reading for enjoyment of the act of reading. I like a book to be vivid but more importantly to have interesting ideas. So I prefer reviews that pay attention to theme in addition to plot and characterization. For example, here's a review I wrote for Dead Men Walking:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334837.page

 Manchu wrote:
I like high level synopsis. I'm not reading to find out what happens. Rather I'm reading for enjoyment of the act of reading. I like a book to be vivid but more importantly to have interesting ideas. So I prefer reviews that pay attention to theme in addition to plot and characterization. For example, here's a review I wrote for Dead Men Walking:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/334837.page

Really nice! Yeah, I think we're both on the same page then. I loved Dead Men Walking, too. Probably my favorite IG book from the BL, though I did like Titanicus and it's portrayal of the guard as well.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Unrememberd Empire comes out Saturday, so I should have it read by Sunday evening, considering it's an Abnett and I usually tear though him.

I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts on this. Someone posted a review over in Background and while the review itself was not disfavorable the synopsis did make the plot sound really, really dumb.

Yeah, I read the premise and was....unconvinced. But it's Abnett, so I'll definitely give it a chance.

Question to you all:

When it comes to reviews, how much do you look for in terms of plot synopsis. In mine, I tend to do that at a very high level and talk more about how well the plot is carried out and how well the characterization is, because I think that has a lot more to do with how good a story is, but lots of people prefer different things. I forgo full blown plot synopses mainly because I really dont want to spoil anything for anyone. I've stuck to more or less the same format as you see in the Vulkan Lives review for a while, but am certainly willing to mix things up.

Thoughts?

I found your review good the way it was, the fact I'm waiting for the format I like reading means it's a few months wait (lets not have any of the old arguments start ) so the relative lack of spoilers, whilst still giving a good review is very helpful to me as it keeps me interested to read the book without actually knowing what happens in said book (if that makes sense...)

 cincydooley wrote:
though I did like Titanicus and it's portrayal of the guard as well.

We must have at least somewhat similar taste because I really enjoyed Titanicus. Here's the kicker question -- what did you think of Mechanicus?

Unremembered Empire sounds really intriguing! Loved Abnett's Legion, so am hoping this does a similar fresh take on what's been going on.

I'm guessing early next year some time for the medium softback size release?

 Manchu wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
though I did like Titanicus and it's portrayal of the guard as well.

We must have at least somewhat similar taste because I really enjoyed Titanicus. Here's the kicker question -- what did you think of Mechanicus?

If you mean the HH book, it's one of my favorite HH books. I like the content a lot, and the mechanicum as a whole is fascinating to me.

Ah, I knew we'd disagree on something. Mind, it wasn't that the book was about the Mechanicus that bothered me. Just felt like a drag to read. The "Heal Thyself" opener probably encouraged me to get my hopes way up, however.

There was an absolute cracker of a line in Mechanicum... I had written it down, but sadly seem to have lost it. It's during the climax of the story, where the forge world is being destroyed.. "and with that, the chances of an age of enlightenment not seen since the ages of science were lost forever beneath the tides of magma.." (or something similar). Made the hairs on my neck stand on end.. an internet cookie for anyone who knows the exact words!

And it was nice having the universe, and heresy, padded out beyond just stories relating to the Astartes.

McNeil seems to occasionally produce lines like that, there was a similar moment at the end of Fulgrim when the Primarch looking about him at the change of his legion and gives up, that is similarly poetic.

 Pacific wrote:
There was an absolute cracker of a line in Mechanicum... I had written it down, but sadly seem to have lost it. It's during the climax of the story, where the forge world is being destroyed.. "and with that, the chances of an age of enlightenment not seen since the ages of science were lost forever beneath the tides of magma.." (or something similar). Made the hairs on my neck stand on end.. an internet cookie for anyone who knows the exact words!

And it was nice having the universe, and heresy, padded out beyond just stories relating to the Astartes.

McNeil seems to occasionally produce lines like that, there was a similar moment at the end of Fulgrim when the Primarch looking about him at the change of his legion and gives up, that is similarly poetic.

"And with their destruction, all hope of lifting the Imperium into a golden age of scientific progress, not seen since humanity set forth from its birthrock was lost forever"

Now where is my cookie

It took me a long time to decide on Mechanicum. Immediately after reading it I was simply ambivalent about it. As weeks went on the more I thought about it the more I disliked it. Now I actually hate it. I think it's the worst HH book. I wish I had never even read it.

It's just dumb. I avoid spoilers like the plague but for a while every thread gave away the secret that Fine. That sounds pretty cool actually and I was looking forward to that. But in didn't know the bigger reveal would be that somehow



And there was a whole lot of other problems too which are actually covered well in Kid-Kyoto's review: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253685.page#940914

I disagree with KC and K_K on this one. A lot.

"Mechanicum" was pretty good.

Now, "Battle for the Abyss"...

I thought the Dark Angels books held the honor of "worst" HH book.

I don't think either of the DA books even merit consideration.

I think I have enjoyed every "worst" book usually mentioned, so I'm a bad judge...

The problem is not so much that they are horrible, which they really aren't, but rather that they don't really seem to fit in with the rest of the series -- and this was especially true at the time they were released. Now that the Lion is involved in so many HH books and shot stories, the two DA novels can be read as more relevant. At the time, and even somewhat to this day, they were just holding up the story. You hear the same complaints about Nemesis, a book I actually liked, and at least that one was actually on-point vis-a-vis the HH. That said, neither DA book was particularly strong.

The price of Unremembered Empire looks a bit silly, £9 on Amazon. According to my purchase history I bought Legion (2008) and Prospero Burns (2010) and Know No Fear (2011) for £4 each.

From a technical standpoint, the DA books weren't really that great. Fallen Angels in particular had some pretty awful prose. I personally liked it for some of the characters and being interested in the plot itself.

 d-usa wrote:
I thought the Dark Angels books held the honor of "worst" HH book.

. I also think Deliverance Lost is pretty not great.

JWBS wrote:
The price of Unremembered Empire looks a bit silly, £9 on Amazon. According to my purchase history I bought Legion (2008) and Prospero Burns (2010) and Know No Fear (2011) for £4 each.

That'll be the new, super duper paperback.

The MMPB prices are around £6 or so (Betrayer just cost me £5.99 IIRC)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
I thought the Dark Angels books held the honor of "worst" HH book.

. I also think Deliverance Lost is pretty not great.

I think "worst" is subjective term.

Are talking about worst written? Most irrelevant? Most spectacular feth up of the timeline?

I think Abyss probably qualifies on most counts, TBH.

Nope, Mechanicum. Haven't read Deliverance Lost though.

The worst you can really say about Deliverance Lost is that its devisive, there seems to be a sizeable minority (myself included) that really enjoyed it.

Hell, I started a Raven Guard 40K army off the back of reading it!

I personally thought it was poorly written. Gav does Eldar and Fantasty better than he does Space Marines.

i've enjoyed all the HH simply because they add to the background, evoke imagery, entertain me, and make me want to paint...
fortunately, i'm not married to any of the background, so the arc of changes and retcons since Rogue Trader haven't bothered me at all...

some of the books have been faster, more entertaining, reads...
others have been better back-story...
regardless, i have found them all interesting, and definitely inspiring...

i'm really looking forward to Unrememberred Empire...
Abnett has never steered me wrong...

cheers
jah

I liked Deliverence Lost since I love the Raven Guard and I thought it gave us a lot of good insights into the Legion and Corax himself.

Having said that they could easily have cut out a third to a full half the book and shown us more of Istvaan V (or anything else that isn't Raven Guard walking down corridors because Big E lost his spare set of keys or whatever).

 d-usa wrote:
I think I have enjoyed every "worst" book usually mentioned, so I'm a bad judge...

Haha, yes me too..

Battle for the Abyss had its moments; it was great for illustrating the cracks that were forming between the different Legions before the Heresy had even broken out. It also had a cool World Eater character, and I actually found the '80's action movie henchmen' style of the Word Bearers, gunned down like the rebel guards in Commando, pretty amusing.

I even enjoyed the DA books, the former more than the latter. I mean.. high-tech Knights on horseback fighting daemons is rather a neat concept! It was one of the few examples of a world before the coming of the Legions, and I suppose ultimately is meant to set the scene for why the Lion makes the decisions he did later on (or whatever the hell is meant to happen to him.. in between Gav Thorpe, Michael Scanlon and Mike Lee don't think they really know what they are doing with it to be honest! I have a feeling it's going to end up like 'Lost', the attempts to be enigmatic making the plot meander along in different directions for as long as possible before coming to a 'WTF?!' conclusion that leaves at least 50% of the fanbase with an unhappy look on their face at the conclusion).

Worse book for me was The Primarchs, which felt like a collection of B-sides. Reflection Crack'd, beyond the pretentious use of an apostrophe, I wished I could have erased from my memory after reading as it actually destroyed the emotive power of the full-length Fulgrim story.

 Pacific wrote:
Worse book for me was The Primarchs, which felt like a collection of B-sides. Reflection Crack'd, beyond the pretentious use of an apostrophe, I wished I could have erased from my memory after reading as it actually destroyed the emotive power of the full-length Fulgrim story.

If we are considering 4 ideas that stuck to the wall but couldn't be fleshed out properly novellas taped together a 'book' then I agree, as bad as some of the others are they usually have redeeming qualities (at least Nemesis showed us a bit of the behind the scenes stuff on Terra, as did Outcast Dead) but I couldn't bring myself to actually finish any of the stories in that.

I thought deliverance lost was okay...but only okay.
Disliked battle for the Abyss.
Liked mechanicum for the most part.

Just sold my collection of books, so I can't remember the name, but it took me months, MONTHS, to read the assassins book and that was around the time I read battle for the abyss as well, which took a long time. If I don't get into the story I can just lay the book down and easily find something better to do.

 jah-joshua wrote:
i've enjoyed all the HH simply because they add to the background, evoke imagery, entertain me, and make me want to paint...
fortunately, i'm not married to any of the background, so the arc of changes and retcons since Rogue Trader haven't bothered me at all...

some of the books have been faster, more entertaining, reads...
others have been better back-story...
regardless, i have found them all interesting, and definitely inspiring...

Thats pretty much how i am in regards to these novels, although I am notoriously easily pleased with respect to sci-fi writings, im a bit like johnny Five, neeeeeeed innnpput !!
There are none that I really disllike and the retcons dont bother me either, I just imagine it to be a different source from the events at hand, pretty much like when you see stories about stuff that happened in the past and they all say different things.
I am very much looking forward to unremembered empire and I am currently working my way through Vulkan Lives and enjoying that also.