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 AtoMaki wrote:

 Lothar wrote:

225 points is 3x ML2 Primaris...and what will be the bonus? 6 dices to warp pool...which means I still have smaller chance to cast 2 prescience blessings than before AND am paying 225 premium cost...so for total of 335 points i have a bit smaller chance to cast something I was casting for 110 points in 6th edition...you get what i want to say?

Maybe cast something else than Prescience? You can get 10 Warp Charges (6+D6), can burn 4 for a ~100% Prescience and use the rest for whatever you want. Like Forewarning+Sanctuary. Not to mention that in the enemy Psychic phase, you will have +6 dices to try to dispel stuff.

Maybe this is a problem in your logic. I dont want to be rude, but you math is false...with 4 dice you have about 69% chance to cast ONE prescience (you need 6 dice to make it 89%, which also means 21%chance to perils)...not counting the enemy deny (which will be very important - if you are playing against psyker heavy list, you will not cast a thing, because the 20 dices in your opponents warppool sais NO...)...

That why I think there are only two options with psychic powers - go big or go home...

Nah I think a small middle ground is perfectly fine. I personally dont plan on having more than 6-8 mastery levels, and there are relatively cheap ways to buy things that increase the pool size.

I think a middle amount is the best. Get a few dice to dispel as well as some protection around while not being overly invested to the point where you get serious diminishing returns on your points spent.

 Leth wrote:
Nah I think a small middle ground is perfectly fine. I personally dont plan on having more than 6-8 mastery levels, and there are relatively cheap ways to buy things that increase the pool size.

I think a middle amount is the best. Get a few dice to dispel as well as some protection around while not being overly invested to the point where you get serious diminishing returns on your points spent.

Well, 8 mastery levels is "going big" pointswise in my opinion. Thats 3 ML 2 primaris psykers and coteaz for example. Which is a lot of points, actually (325!) for psychic support only . 8+D6 dices..lets say 11,5...thats one warp charge2 power and one warp charge1 power cast with good chance (81% for WC2 and 87.5 for WC1) or 4 WC1 powers (or 6 WC 1 if you feel lucky )...a lot of points for that support.

Which is why I plan to try and get psykers that offer additional utility, or are very cheap per point.

For example: 2x acolyte and mystic is 18 points. three of thoose with coteax is 154. That is 5 dice right there. Throw in a inquisitor with x upgrades and that is 254 that offers a crap ton of utility brings 6 dice with two shots at prescience, and three super scoring units. Not bad.

Coteaz and for example a xenos or hereticus inquisitor bring a lot to the table and buff guard units quite well.

It is 225 pts. (3x75)

Also you get prescience and two rolls on the divination table (as far as the rumors I have seen go). This means that you will have several WC1 powers to use hopefully getting ignore cover or a 4++. In fact without the daemon snow ball taking a single psyker gives you the highest dice to powers ration you can have as it is 1d6+ML so with a Lv2 you should get ~5 dice average which gives you a ~81% chance to get prescience off.

This also ignores the fact that you might want to take a different discipline with your primaris now. Telepathy, Biomancy, and Telekinesis have some really useful WC1 powers and Sanctic powers are pretty good though you are likely to detonate the psyker using them (unless GK or Inq).

I think the big thing is that having a psyker or two gives you extra DtW dice and as far as the rumors appears to make the rolls easier. This can make a very big difference if you can block a fortune or stop cursed earth from going off (or at least make the opponent chuck more dice at any one power due to fear of DtW).

 Leth wrote:
Which is why I plan to try and get psykers that offer additional utility, or are very cheap per point.

For example: 2x acolyte and mystic is 18 points. three of thoose with coteax is 154. That is 5 dice right there. Throw in a inquisitor with x upgrades and that is 254 that offers a crap ton of utility brings 6 dice with two shots at prescience, and three super scoring units. Not bad.

Coteaz and for example a xenos or hereticus inquisitor bring a lot to the table and buff guard units quite well.

If Mystic gives you one dice (I am not sure if he has a Mastery level1), why not take 12 of them?

Anyway, trying two prescience with only 6 dice means only 69% success chance...minus DtW from your enemy. Not really reliable if you ask me. Not a a bit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ansacs wrote:

I think the big thing is that having a psyker or two gives you extra DtW dice and as far as the rumors appears to make the rolls easier. This can make a very big difference if you can block a fortune or stop cursed earth from going off (or at least make the opponent chuck more dice at any one power due to fear of DtW).

I dont think you will be able to block fortune if the Eldar player want to play it...but the DtW is nice, you are absolutely right in this.

They are brotherhood of psykers so I would only get 1 regardless

Er we can get a 25pt ml 1 astropath in the ccs as well dont forget? :-)

Guys!

Guys!

...

Invisibility...

...

On Pask and friends.

Who needs re-rolls to hit when you can just make three AV14 nigh unkillable?

Alternatively, bring a titan and cast invisibility on that.

That sir is truly vile :-) I love it

And after the first turn the enemy uses every dispel dice to DtW lol

 Blacksails wrote:
Guys!

Guys!

...

Invisibility...

...

On Pask and friends.

Who needs re-rolls to hit when you can just make three AV14 nigh unkillable?

Alternatively, bring a titan and cast invisibility on that.

\

Reminds me of this:




But ya, what's hilarious is that pasks unit scores. Le sigh. I don't know why they had to mess with the program for scoring. They could have just made a mission where elites scored and called it a day.

Holy gak, yeah, he scores too!

And he's a character so his shots are all precision shots.

And he can be taken as your warlord even if you have a CCS.

Remember we need to think about scoring not as a 5th or 6th edition mindset, but 7th. Everyone scores, so what matters is contesting and super scoring units, that is where the currency is. So things with decent mobility or deployment options are going to be very important. I see new purpose for the taurox now honestly. It is 50 points of mobile super scoring. With objectives claimed at the end of your turn they become quite powerful as they will deny your opponent so they have to deal with it while claiming for you. Same with things like sws in vendettas. Really need to open the book back up and approach it differently

 Blacksails wrote:
Guys!

Guys!

...

Invisibility...

...

On Pask and friends.

Who needs re-rolls to hit when you can just make three AV14 nigh unkillable?

Alternatively, bring a titan and cast invisibility on that.

Only the Astropath has access to telepathy though, so it is hard to get that power.

speaking of psykers, the psyker cards have a tick box section where is says we have access to all the rulebook powers. Does this mean there will be a section in the rules where we no longer need to abide by the psyker restrictions?

Otherwise we wouldnt be able to summon demons for example either. So it may well be the case that invisibility is easy to get.

Trickstick wrote:
Only the Astropath has access to telepathy though, so it is hard to get that power.

See below...

Swastakowey wrote:speaking of psykers, the psyker cards have a tick box section where is says we have access to all the rulebook powers. Does this mean there will be a section in the rules where we no longer need to abide by the psyker restrictions?

Otherwise we wouldnt be able to summon demons for example either. So it may well be the case that invisibility is easy to get.

I'm expecting a FAQ for each codex that will remedy this. Perhaps the Astropath will still have the restriction, but the Primaris and Wyrdvanes won't?

Yea it will be the first thing I look for. Because it will open many doors for the guard in what power they can possible posses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just asked someone who has the rule book on another thread. Ill come back with an answer if im lucky.

 Blacksails wrote:

Trickstick wrote:
Only the Astropath has access to telepathy though, so it is hard to get that power.

See below...

Swastakowey wrote:speaking of psykers, the psyker cards have a tick box section where is says we have access to all the rulebook powers. Does this mean there will be a section in the rules where we no longer need to abide by the psyker restrictions?

Otherwise we wouldnt be able to summon demons for example either. So it may well be the case that invisibility is easy to get.

I'm expecting a FAQ for each codex that will remedy this. Perhaps the Astropath will still have the restriction, but the Primaris and Wyrdvanes won't?

I think it is likely that daemonology will simply be added, with the current restrictions remaining in place. The tick boxes would still be correct, as the army as a whole would still have access to all of the disciplines. If they were going to let the primaris have access to telepathy, it is unusual that it would not be available in the codex.

There is nothing in the BRB to say what powers you get, it states this is found in your codex. The card thing is pretty crap, for example Space mairnes have divination ticked, but only tiggy can access divination from the SM codex.

For daemons, tzeentch heralds and GD can access divination, nurgle biomancy, slaanesh telepathy, princes bio telekinese and telepathy, Fatey all of them. So while the ticks may be correct OVERALL they do not replace what is found in your codex. (unless you have old codex in which case hope for a faq).




So its up to FAQ for now.

Hmm, yeah I saw your post in the news thread 'Kowey.

Well, just means I'll be taking an astropath now to fish for Invisibility.

Or see if a FAQ changes anything.

I got invisibility before, out of 3 rolls. But at least the telepathy primaris is decent enough if you dont get it.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I got invisibility before, out of 3 rolls. But at least the telepathy primaris is decent enough if you dont get it.

Yeah, and the Astropath still adds a die to your total in the psychic phase. Not to mention helps against targeted powers for your CCS.

Still not digging what I know of 7th overall, but at least I'm aware of what to expect. That and I think I'll be keeping my Guard for now.

The rules where looking great, but then some questionable ones started popping up. But I too am keeping mine. Just the look of my models is enough to keep them. Time will tell.

What are your thoughts on the regimental standard versus a voxcaster? The standard lets you reroll failed morale, fear and pinning tests and the voxcaster lets you reroll failed orders Ld tests. It seems to me that the voxcaster is the better choice there, especially as it's so much cheaper, or it seems to be, but it adds up quick.

I didn't like much of the changes 6th brought from 5th, and 7th is just moving more in that direction. For those that liked 6th, I can see liking more things about 7th, but there's still a lot of poor design choices, as far as I'm concerned.

Ah well.

Apparently there's a small group of people I partly know in the city I'm moving to in a month, so maybe they'll be awesome and we can fix the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Valhalla130 wrote:
What are your thoughts on the regimental standard versus a voxcaster? The standard lets you reroll failed morale, fear and pinning tests and the voxcaster lets you reroll failed orders Ld tests. It seems to me that the voxcaster is the better choice there, especially as it's so much cheaper, or it seems to be, but it adds up quick.

I've never bothered with either.

Just use priests/commissars for leadership puproses for blobs; nothing else really benefits.

If voxes allowed you to receive orders in vehicles, and anywhere on the board if the CCS had it as well, while also allowing re-rolls within command radius, then I'd buy them.

 Valhalla130 wrote:
What are your thoughts on the regimental standard versus a voxcaster? The standard lets you reroll failed morale, fear and pinning tests and the voxcaster lets you reroll failed orders Ld tests. It seems to me that the voxcaster is the better choice there, especially as it's so much cheaper, or it seems to be, but it adds up quick.

For fluff reasons and looks I take them both.

Its never bad to have more re rolls if you arent highly competitive. Plus its awesome to make the bits. But I draw the line there, I will never take a platoon standard as its pretty awful.

I take the vox to represent discipline with my praetorians and the banner to represent company colours. doesnt feel like wasted points most games.

Fearless Power blobs with Objective Secured laying on an objective accumulating points every turn seems like a pretty good deal.

Yeah I've been having great luck using 3 fearless blobs for objectives, it should be even better with points every turn (objective cards willing)

Only downside is that pulling out and putting up as well as moving that many dudes gets very tiring. Also you can jam up your deployment very quick.

Yep, my first question is usually how many blasts they got. That determines how much effort I put into spacing. Also thank god puppet master is going. I lost 40 guardsmen to my wyvern...

 Leth wrote:
Yep, my first question is usually how many blasts they got. That determines how much effort I put into spacing. Also thank god puppet master is going. I lost 40 guardsmen to my wyvern...

What you really need is invisibility... it would make answering the blasts question really easy