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2014/09/10 15:48:31
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: I am not saying it doesn't happen. I mean its common, but not all gamers are like that.
I am pretty sure he knows, provided he wrote that:
AdeptSister wrote: I think the actions of a vocal minority (that is tolerated) is more hurtful than generalizations.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/10 15:55:09
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Which I feel that the acceptance of "it's the Internet" is self-defeating. I mean it is changing, right? Just because bullying happens, doesn't mean we have to accept it.
2014/09/10 15:55:42
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
AdeptSister wrote: Which I feel that the acceptance of "it's the Internet" is self-defeating. I mean it is changing, right? Just because bullying happens, doesn't mean we have to accept it.
Agreed. It is changing though, those minorities are being thrown out as just idiots.
If you listen to that minority you are giving them recognition. If we ignore them or we decry them and say you can't do that. Then they will stop. If we give them attention then they will thrive on it.
That is the problem. Zoe Quinn and many others are only breeding it further, and intoxicating them with more attention.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 15:58:41
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda. We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
They cannot veil themselves in secrecy.
They cannot decry and generalize an entire population.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 16:06:34
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda.
So, you want less opinion, and more… what exactly?
Asherian Command wrote: We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
Apparently everyone knows everyone, so just expect all of them to have personal relationships with everyone else.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/10 16:08:44
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda.
So, you want less opinion, and more… what exactly?
Asherian Command wrote: We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
Apparently everyone knows everyone, so just expect all of them to have personal relationships with everyone else.
No not less opinion, but currently the hidden agenda is advertising for the game,
Your last comment makes no sense. I am saying they need to disclose their personal relationship in the article if they have one with the designer or person who made the game. You can make good press releases but you must disclose yur personal relationships.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 16:17:46
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda.
So, you want less opinion, and more… what exactly?
Asherian Command wrote: We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
Apparently everyone knows everyone, so just expect all of them to have personal relationships with everyone else.
There is no way to get rid of all Opinion, but more "I think this game was great because X" and less "This Game has Scantily Clad Character so is Inherently Bad" would be nice:
It's bizarre and disheartening that Grasshopper Manufacture's most approachable, refined, and charming game yet is so stuck in such disconcerting subject matter, so little of which is pertinent to Lollipop Chainsaw's gameplay, story, or characters. While Shadows of the Damned dealt with some similar themes in a darker story, it never dove into the weird misogyny and exploitation that Lollipop Chainsaw does.
Misogyny and Exploitation right there, in the review. They gave the game a 65, which while I'm not saying LC is the best game evar, most companies use anything below a 70 as "Don't play this".
That was in Polygon's review of Lollipop Chainsaw. Now, I'm no expert, but I don't think we can really expect a game about a cheerleader slaughtering Zombies with a chainsaw while her boyfriends decapitated head is cracking jokes while tied up to her belt as a game that's going to treat ANYTHING seriously.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/10 16:42:01
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2014/09/10 16:24:30
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda.
So, you want less opinion, and more… what exactly?
Asherian Command wrote: We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
Apparently everyone knows everyone, so just expect all of them to have personal relationships with everyone else.
There is no way to get rid of all Opinion, but more "I think this game was great because X" and less "This Game has Scantily Clad Character so is Inherently Bad" would be nice:
It's bizarre and disheartening that Grasshopper Manufacture's most approachable, refined, and charming game yet is so stuck in such disconcerting subject matter, so little of which is pertinent to Lollipop Chainsaw's gameplay, story, or characters. While Shadows of the Damned dealt with some similar themes in a darker story, it never dove into the weird misogyny and exploitation that Lollipop Chainsaw does.
Misogyny and Exploitation right there, in the review. They gave the game a 65, which while I'm not saying LC is the best game evar, most companies use anything below a 70 as "Don't play this".
To illustrate that point as well.
A review of Spec Ops: The Line.
9 Presentation Story takes precedent over everything in Spec Ops, which the smart pacing and writing emphasize. 8 Graphics Great lighting and attention to detail save Spec Ops from its texture loading issues and unimpressive particle effects. 7 Sound Music plays an important atmospheric role, and the voice acting creates genuine and believable characters. 7 Gameplay Control and cover problems hurt an already standard shooter, but the intelligent encounters and level design make each fight exciting. 7 Lasting Appeal Multiplayer's a wash, but the campaign is worth replaying -- seeing the same events while knowing what's really going on is uncomfortable in new ways.
Yes you read that right they docked points for not having good multiplayer.
I don't think you should get rid of points only because they multiplayer is not that good. You should rate a game soley on mechanics, story, sound, and gameplay. You don't need to dock points because of its extras.
Because other wise I would dock points from games like super mario brothers for not having COOP options. or multiplayer modes.
They rate games and hate it if it has certain things in it like skimpy outfits. They go nuts. And ignore the game think its terrible because of that.
I mean some games are pretty terrible, and they can be right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/10 16:25:40
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 16:24:58
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Wow Forbes way to be informative and journalistic in nature.
I mean it can happen.
because currently reviewers jump on a band wagon, and do not analyze a game and critic it. They just praise it all the bloody time. If a game is perfect is perfect, I mean the flaws that were pointed out in the IGN article were flaws that I saw as well.
But I think there should be less a rating system, and more of a recommendation. I like this game, So I recommend it.
Its something that should happen, because assigning points to an art form really doesn't help.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/10 16:41:15
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 16:45:36
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda.
So, you want less opinion, and more… what exactly?
Asherian Command wrote: We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
Apparently everyone knows everyone, so just expect all of them to have personal relationships with everyone else.
There is no way to get rid of all Opinion, but more "I think this game was great because X" and less "This Game has Scantily Clad Character so is Inherently Bad" would be nice:
It's bizarre and disheartening that Grasshopper Manufacture's most approachable, refined, and charming game yet is so stuck in such disconcerting subject matter, so little of which is pertinent to Lollipop Chainsaw's gameplay, story, or characters. While Shadows of the Damned dealt with some similar themes in a darker story, it never dove into the weird misogyny and exploitation that Lollipop Chainsaw does.
Misogyny and Exploitation right there, in the review. They gave the game a 65, which while I'm not saying LC is the best game evar, most companies use anything below a 70 as "Don't play this".
To illustrate that point as well.
A review of Spec Ops: The Line.
9
Presentation
Story takes precedent over everything in Spec Ops, which the smart pacing and writing emphasize.
8
Graphics
Great lighting and attention to detail save Spec Ops from its texture loading issues and unimpressive particle effects.
7
Sound
Music plays an important atmospheric role, and the voice acting creates genuine and believable characters.
7
Gameplay
Control and cover problems hurt an already standard shooter, but the intelligent encounters and level design make each fight exciting.
7
Lasting Appeal
Multiplayer's a wash, but the campaign is worth replaying -- seeing the same events while knowing what's really going on is uncomfortable in new ways.
Yes you read that right they docked points for not having good multiplayer.
I don't think you should get rid of points only because they multiplayer is not that good. You should rate a game soley on mechanics, story, sound, and gameplay. You don't need to dock points because of its extras.
Because other wise I would dock points from games like super mario brothers for not having COOP options. or multiplayer modes.
They rate games and hate it if it has certain things in it like skimpy outfits. They go nuts. And ignore the game think its terrible because of that.
I mean some games are pretty terrible, and they can be right.
Also, look at a game like Dust, an Elysian Tail; it's a standardish Metroidvania style game. Using a five-is-medium scale system, I don't think it really deserves a 10, but a 8-9 would be good. However, it lacks New Game+ or Boss Rush modes, which are sorely disappointing at not being in there. Does it make it a worse game for not having one?
Not really, because does Call of Duty not having Halo's Forge game mode make CoD bad? No, CoD is bad solely because CoD is bad.
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
2014/09/10 16:49:06
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
I completely agree. The entire issue remains that the media has to stop expecting certain things. You can rate minecraft and call it the worst game ever because of its graphics or its sounds.
You can't do that.
You can't compare it to the norm.
Should there be a quality type that must be acquired? Yes. There should be but, that doesn't mean though that a game is worse because of it.
If a game is reptitive or its mechanics work against the game then say that happens.
Report, look at it.
If an extra content was not provided do not complain about it.
*Ahem* diablo 3 players *ahem*
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 16:57:44
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Wow Forbes way to be informative and journalistic in nature.
I mean it can happen.
I actually thought this was sarcasm until I read the article. - It actually is a pretty darn good article that covers all the major points.
Only thing that I'd be a bit critical about it, is it could do with looking at the relative numbers involved somehow. - I don't think it mentioned 'notyourshield' either.
2014/09/10 16:59:47
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Wow Forbes way to be informative and journalistic in nature.
I mean it can happen.
I actually thought this was sarcasm until I read the article. - It actually is a pretty darn good article that covers all the major points.
Only thing that I'd be a bit critical about it, is it could do with looking at the relative numbers involved somehow. - I don't think it mentioned 'notyourshield' either.
I know right I thought at first. Oh boy here we go.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 18:31:22
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
The Bad... darn article reminds me that with so much garbage being spewed out there that people worthy of criticism can point to all the nasty stuff thrown at them and can rightly say "I am not deserving of this!!!" the real "NotYourShield" should be the haters out there being used to dismiss legitimate rational criticism.
The extremely Ugly... did many searches to try to confirm or deny this, still having a problem nailing it down... but isn't that a statement to make complete strangers dislike you in an instant?
Looking at the reaction of the "journalists" more so than Zoe, they are acting like people used to being on top of the world and they are trying to put those who put them there "in their place". Nasty stuff.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
2014/09/10 19:16:23
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
The Bad... darn article reminds me that with so much garbage being spewed out there that people worthy of criticism can point to all the nasty stuff thrown at them and can rightly say "I am not deserving of this!!!" the real "NotYourShield" should be the haters out there being used to dismiss legitimate rational criticism.
The extremely Ugly... did many searches to try to confirm or deny this, still having a problem nailing it down... but isn't that a statement to make complete strangers dislike you in an instant?
Looking at the reaction of the "journalists" more so than Zoe, they are acting like people used to being on top of the world and they are trying to put those who put them there "in their place". Nasty stuff.
I think the whole situation is kind of nasty.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/10 20:02:31
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
There a lot of mention of objectivity being difficult due to personal preferences, which is fair enough. But the issue is lack of objectivity due to financial and personal relationships between reviewers and people producing games. That is a bias that should be declared, or best avoided altogether. Apparently by not reviewing stuff made by someone you're sleeping with.
2014/09/10 21:32:23
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
But I do have to say what happened to her was very unacceptable. But you can't blame the entire community for that. Blame the idiots that drove her out. Minus the fact one bit was that she sort of didn't disclose certain things.
I am currently talking with Daniel Floyd about the situation.
But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda. We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
They cannot veil themselves in secrecy.
They cannot decry and generalize an entire population.
The way I look at it is that game journalism should be like how dakka news and rumours is, its all about rumours, reviews and games negative and positive. That's it, its about games. Imagine if Suddenly SJWs came into warhammer and started complaining without the background or credentials or research. They would cherry pick whatever elements they need (IE Vects slave girls).
Slarg232 wrote: There is no way to get rid of all Opinion, but more "I think this game was great because X" and less "This Game has Scantily Clad Character so is Inherently Bad" would be nice:
So you want to get rid of that 0,5% so that you get more of that 99,5%? Right!
9
Presentation
Story takes precedent over everything in Spec Ops, which the smart pacing and writing emphasize.
8
Graphics
Great lighting and attention to detail save Spec Ops from its texture loading issues and unimpressive particle effects.
7
Sound
Music plays an important atmospheric role, and the voice acting creates genuine and believable characters.
7
Gameplay
Control and cover problems hurt an already standard shooter, but the intelligent encounters and level design make each fight exciting.
7
Lasting Appeal
Multiplayer's a wash, but the campaign is worth replaying -- seeing the same events while knowing what's really going on is uncomfortable in new ways.
Yes you read that right they docked points for not having good multiplayer.
I don't think you should get rid of points only because they multiplayer is not that good. You should rate a game soley on mechanics, story, sound, and gameplay. You don't need to dock points because of its extras.
Because other wise I would dock points from games like super mario brothers for not having COOP options. or multiplayer modes.
They rate games and hate it if it has certain things in it like skimpy outfits. They go nuts. And ignore the game think its terrible because of that.
I mean some games are pretty terrible, and they can be right.
I do not see the problem here. Unless someone is weird enough to rely on the notes without even looking at the explanation for them, they will know why the game got the mark and decide by themselves if this is something they care about or not.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/10 23:48:00
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Slarg232 wrote: There is no way to get rid of all Opinion, but more "I think this game was great because X" and less "This Game has Scantily Clad Character so is Inherently Bad" would be nice:
So you want to get rid of that 0,5% so that you get more of that 99,5%? Right!
9 Presentation Story takes precedent over everything in Spec Ops, which the smart pacing and writing emphasize. 8 Graphics Great lighting and attention to detail save Spec Ops from its texture loading issues and unimpressive particle effects. 7 Sound Music plays an important atmospheric role, and the voice acting creates genuine and believable characters. 7 Gameplay Control and cover problems hurt an already standard shooter, but the intelligent encounters and level design make each fight exciting. 7 Lasting Appeal Multiplayer's a wash, but the campaign is worth replaying -- seeing the same events while knowing what's really going on is uncomfortable in new ways.
Yes you read that right they docked points for not having good multiplayer.
I don't think you should get rid of points only because they multiplayer is not that good. You should rate a game soley on mechanics, story, sound, and gameplay. You don't need to dock points because of its extras.
Because other wise I would dock points from games like super mario brothers for not having COOP options. or multiplayer modes.
They rate games and hate it if it has certain things in it like skimpy outfits. They go nuts. And ignore the game think its terrible because of that.
I mean some games are pretty terrible, and they can be right.
I do not see the problem here. Unless someone is weird enough to rely on the notes without even looking at the explanation for them, they will know why the game got the mark and decide by themselves if this is something they care about or not.
They docked points specifically for the multiplayer. They thought it was worse because the multiplayer wasn't any good. That is my major issue.
The way I look at it is that game journalism should be like how dakka news and rumours is, its all about rumours, reviews and games negative and positive. That's it, its about games. Imagine if Suddenly SJWs came into warhammer and started complaining without the background or credentials or research. They would cherry pick whatever elements they need (IE Vects slave girls).
Completely agreed. They would tear GW a new one if they saw that.
But I don't think people would understand. ITs a grimdark future, where everyone is treated that way. But men are usually sacrificed or thrown into gladitorial rings. Which is worse, being forced to have sex? Or being forced and getting killed and or pain and suffering for the rest of your life? To be honest I would rather take death.
Asherian Command wrote: They docked points specifically for the multiplayer. They thought it was worse because the multiplayer wasn't any good. That is my major issue.
They rated what they called Lasting appeal, which is I guess what used to be call replayability, and to explain their grade, they said that while the multiplayer was not good enough to give the game points for replayability, something else was. Were they supposed to give the game the same amount of points for replayability without explaining that the multplayer was not very good, or were they supposed to give it more point for whatever reason?
Beside, you are way too hung up on notes, while really the text around it matters much more.
Mechanical Crow wrote: The way I look at it is that game journalism should be like how dakka news and rumours is, its all about rumours, reviews and games negative and positive. That's it, its about games. Imagine if Suddenly SJWs came into warhammer and started complaining without the background or credentials or research.
Even though I am pretty sure I know the background well enough to get the “credential and research”, I already did complain about some boob window on an illustration for the Inquisitor minidex in Dakka's Rumour section. It spawned some discussion that eventually was redirect to some thread in general. Do I count as a SJW?
Why did that make you sad? Personally, what made me sad about it is that it seems to reference anime rather than Terry Pratchett as the source of the expression wizard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 00:27:40
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/11 00:35:41
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: They docked points specifically for the multiplayer. They thought it was worse because the multiplayer wasn't any good. That is my major issue.
They rated what they called Lasting appeal, which is I guess what used to be call replayability, and to explain their grade, they said that while the multiplayer was not good enough to give the game points for replayability, something else was. Were they supposed to give the game the same amount of points for replayability without explaining that the multplayer was not very good, or were they supposed to give it more point for whatever reason?
Beside, you are way too hung up on notes, while really the text around it matters much more.
Mechanical Crow wrote: The way I look at it is that game journalism should be like how dakka news and rumours is, its all about rumours, reviews and games negative and positive. That's it, its about games. Imagine if Suddenly SJWs came into warhammer and started complaining without the background or credentials or research.
Even though I am pretty sure I know the background well enough to get the “credential and research”, I already did complain about some boob window on an illustration for the Inquisitor minidex in Dakka's Rumour section. It spawned some discussion that eventually was redirect to some thread in general. Do I count as a SJW?
Why did that make you sad? Personally, what made me sad about it is that it seems to reference anime rather than Terry Pratchett as the source of the expression wizard.
Wow you didn't see that the guy was calling them virigins and yelling at wizardchan?
Its an insult. Its a sad sad insult.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/11 00:39:55
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda. We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
They cannot veil themselves in secrecy.
They cannot decry and generalize an entire population.
The way I look at it is that game journalism should be like how dakka news and rumours is, its all about rumours, reviews and games negative and positive. That's it, its about games. Imagine if Suddenly SJWs came into warhammer and started complaining without the background or credentials or research. They would cherry pick whatever elements they need (IE Vects slave girls).
>_>
I did this, at the time I may or may not have been trolling, but I threw quite the hissy fit in the Wild West Exodus thread about the Native Americans being the only ones that could turn into wild beasts... Not my proudest moment, though I still stand by the fact that Sitting Bull should have been a Buffalo and not a wolf, but w/e.
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
2014/09/11 00:42:30
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
But i think its more about consumers wanting to see less hype pieces and less about pushing a certain agenda. We want journalism that is unbiased, and transparent. we want them to disclaim their biases and tell us if they have personal relationships with who and who.
They cannot veil themselves in secrecy.
They cannot decry and generalize an entire population.
The way I look at it is that game journalism should be like how dakka news and rumours is, its all about rumours, reviews and games negative and positive. That's it, its about games. Imagine if Suddenly SJWs came into warhammer and started complaining without the background or credentials or research. They would cherry pick whatever elements they need (IE Vects slave girls).
>_>
I did this, at the time I may or may not have been trolling, but I threw quite the hissy fit in the Wild West Exodus thread about the Native Americans being the only ones that could turn into wild beasts... Not my proudest moment, though I still stand by the fact that Sitting Bull should have been a Buffalo and not a wolf, but w/e.
It happens.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/11 00:43:11
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Asherian Command wrote: Wow you didn't see that the guy was calling them virigins and yelling at wizardchan?
Its an insult. Its a sad sad insult.
Who is he calling virgin?
And I clicked on the link to Wizardchan:
Wizardchan is a Japanese-inspired image-based forum (imageboard) for male virgins to share their thoughts and discuss their interests and lifestyle as a virgin. The name of our website is inspired by the term wizard, a meme of Japanese origin that means 30-year-old virgin. In contrast to other imageboards, Wizardchan is dedicated exclusively to people who have no sexual experience and may be NEET or hikkikomori.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
