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Hmmmm. I have been wondering about PP's direction... there had to be so much energy that went into working on the Grymkin, and yet just before they have the MK3 release with things like Skorne where they have to completely redo the whole faction again afterwards because of how poorly done it was.

I don't mind the models, although I agree they're more like Malifaux. But I just don't get where PP is going... we're finally going to try playing again now that the errata hit, with my friend actually trying out Skorne. But I wish they would take on some feedback and put out what people want and are asking for... whereas this, while not bad, can't be something that was high on most people's wish lists.

 RiTides wrote:
Hmmmm. I have been wondering about PP's direction... there had to be so much energy that went into working on the Grymkin, and yet just before they have the MK3 release with things like Skorne where they have to completely redo the whole faction again afterwards because of how poorly done it was.

I don't mind the models, although I agree they're more like Malifaux. But I just don't get where PP is going... we're finally going to try playing again now that the errata hit, with my friend actually trying out Skorne. But I wish they would take on some feedback and put out what people want and are asking for... whereas this, while not bad, can't be something that was high on most people's wish lists.

Right. After two or three years of developing the rules for mk3, we see sloppy rules here and there. Simultaneously, PP has developed a new faction. I dont get it either.

The whole game is so immensely bloated. I wish they would of started working on a new different minis game years ago to stretch their appeal and slow down model saturation.
Wyrd just kicked their squad based system the Other Side and it did very well.

Wyrd's done a terrible job supporting anything but their flagship and more recently their tie-in RPG. It's definitely a better model, but having bought into or played I think 4 of their other games, it left me gun shy about their next big investment.

But yes, in theory, it's better to not run on one flagship (or PP's inextricable pair).

The problem is... there needs to be an awareness of the size of one's company. There has to be middle-ground between letting Warmahordes becoming a bloated corpse on life-support due to excess of "support", and the model Wyrd and Spartan follow, where they act like spastic children who can't focus on one thing long enough to give it legs to stand on.

Privateer waves their proverbial ****s around as if they were old GW (especially when attempting to bully retailers, etc...) but they aren't willing or able to expand beyond their one game in a meaningful way, to the detriment of said game.

So my completely unrealistic, personal wish/suggestion... Go reboot Monsterpocalypse. :-p

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
Wyrd's done a terrible job supporting anything but their flagship and more recently their tie-in RPG. It's definitely a better model, but having bought into or played I think 4 of their other games, it left me gun shy about their next big investment.

But yes, in theory, it's better to not run on one flagship (or PP's inextricable pair).

Your thoughts on Wyrd are why i passed on ToS as well.
As for Spartan, I'll never give them another dime.

My groups playing smaller and more obscure systems now with increasing frequency. It's like the GF you dont care much about ... We run the show and Less disappointment if it goes south.

Grymkin are DoA for me because of it's limited-release status. I can understand why PP takes that approach, but I don't see the appeal of jumping into a new army that will always be second-class.

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I thought all of Wyrd's games that aren't Malifaux or the RPG were self-contained board/card games?


On topic, I'm pretty sold on this new army. None of the Hordes factions really excited me (though Skorne and Legion come close) but this one is definitely hitting most of the right notes.

re: wyrd, several games had expansion packs, and specifically Showdown and Puppet Wars had support promised but no delivery (PW had an initial release wave; a couple LE's; a 2nd edition core with no support for the 1st and no followups; Showdown had a preview for a parallel starter/expansion that was never made)

re: second class faction, you like the models/theme, or are fine being an underdog faction b/c you don't need to deal with sprawl. I was on board with mercs at the dawn of them (barely) being a faction...

TBH I don't mind so much them getting the Cyriss treatment; makes it sort of easy to "finish" the army, so to speak. They certainly will be secondary to my Cygnar. For me it's a perk, but I can totally see why that would make someone lose interest.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Hmmmm. I have been wondering about PP's direction... there had to be so much energy that went into working on the Grymkin, and yet just before they have the MK3 release with things like Skorne where they have to completely redo the whole faction again afterwards because of how poorly done it was.

I don't mind the models, although I agree they're more like Malifaux. But I just don't get where PP is going... we're finally going to try playing again now that the errata hit, with my friend actually trying out Skorne. But I wish they would take on some feedback and put out what people want and are asking for... whereas this, while not bad, can't be something that was high on most people's wish lists.

Right. After two or three years of developing the rules for mk3, we see sloppy rules here and there. Simultaneously, PP has developed a new faction. I dont get it either.

It's definitely not the PP from 4 years ago, which was when I got into the game.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

The models are nice, though I feel like they won't have much visual coherency on the battlefield. That beautiful First Heretic priest looks splendid but nothing like that huge SM cage-holding guy, and none of those looks like piggy cavalry or hollow men…
Also, PP, YET ONE MORE EVIL SEDUCTRESS THINGY? Aren't there enough of those already?

My thoughts exactly. The designs are all over the place, but some models, like the Heretic is stunning.
I really like the evil tree.

Not a warmahordes player, but occasionally I get some models just for fun (actually more than I care to admit) , and some of these look great to me. Perhaps I like them because they dont fit with the usual factons?

I really like Grymkin. Old Witch2 is an amazing model.

So Halloween got into warmachine? Lazy concept and most miniatures dont even seem to be part of the PP range. Pass.

Oh and video is quite annoying to listen to.

Like Ritides I dont undertand what PP is doing but I can garantee you that this is not the miniatures im looking for.

Yeah, I don't get it either. It looks like they want to add a Malifaux-like vibe to the setting, but the setting never had that. These things look cool but don't fit IMHO, although as a Khador player I'm excited for Old Witch 2. I haven't felt the desire to play since MK3 launched though, the game just feels so different. Spam lists are more prolific than ever and that's not a style I have any interest in seeing or playing against. The new SR2017 things being thrown around sound interesting and I hope it brings back a balanced approach, but I doubt it. Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

Some really nice figures in the new faction. The warbeasts in particular are cool.

Wayniac wrote:
Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

I'm not to the "nothing" point, but I have followed a similar arc, and gravitated back to GW games! 30K in particular, as it seems to draw a more mature crowd (could be the barrier to entry, though ).

But that's why I posted what I did above - despite their interacting with the community a lot and trying to salvage the release of MK3 with frequent erratas, I only see reactions to symptoms... the real question is what direction they're heading in overall. I play Minions, and we actually haven't had anything released in MK3 except Commandos... a unit that is basically unfieldable. We just got a tease that we'll have a large based model coming in a year... but everything I've seen from PP since MK3 convinces me that it was NOT planned far in advance, and they're scrambling since.

I actually think it was a reaction to Guild Ball and competitive players jumping to that game... but a rushed new edition can do more harm than good, and I'm already wishing they would just do a real fix and make an "MK3.5" that actually works, rather than "MK3 + errata every 3 months"...

So right now I'm just waiting to see, and will try it again with Wehrkind when we get the chance - but I'm not too optimistic of their direction. Even the Minions PP board has dived down in activity lately... there's just nothing to talk about, and I don't think the Grymkin are helping on that front for most players.

 RiTides wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

I'm not to the "nothing" point, but I have followed a similar arc, and gravitated back to GW games! 30K in particular, as it seems to draw a more mature crowd (could be the barrier to entry, though ).

Same here. We usually play games at the 50 pt level, since larger games take too long. The errata thing every month or two has driven players away from the game. Some lost confidence, some think that their armies got nerfed too much, some think that other armies or combos are too strong game-wise.
Some here moved by to 40k despite the bad state of rules and the problems with competitive play.

Yeah. The every 3 months thing, even with the occasional dynamic updates, seems like it will just band-aid fix things. I am/was a big proponent against spam lists and was basically told no that's fine it's working as intended, and PP refuses to fix either power up or FA: U warjacks which would nip spam lists in the bud.

What Wyrd RPG is everyone talking about?

Chopxsticks wrote:
What Wyrd RPG is everyone talking about?

Through the Breach, their fairly unique and quite excellent (IMO) RPG tie in to Malifaux. There's a 2nd edition of the 2 basic books coming later this year, but it's mostly just a cleanup and aligning the archetypes in those books with the later ones.

 RiTides wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

I'm not to the "nothing" point, but I have followed a similar arc, and gravitated back to GW games! 30K in particular, as it seems to draw a more mature crowd (could be the barrier to entry, though ).

But that's why I posted what I did above - despite their interacting with the community a lot and trying to salvage the release of MK3 with frequent erratas, I only see reactions to symptoms... the real question is what direction they're heading in overall. I play Minions, and we actually haven't had anything released in MK3 except Commandos... a unit that is basically unfieldable. We just got a tease that we'll have a large based model coming in a year... but everything I've seen from PP since MK3 convinces me that it was NOT planned far in advance, and they're scrambling since.

I actually think it was a reaction to Guild Ball and competitive players jumping to that game... but a rushed new edition can do more harm than good, and I'm already wishing they would just do a real fix and make an "MK3.5" that actually works, rather than "MK3 + errata every 3 months"...

So right now I'm just waiting to see, and will try it again with Wehrkind when we get the chance - but I'm not too optimistic of their direction. Even the Minions PP board has dived down in activity lately... there's just nothing to talk about, and I don't think the Grymkin are helping on that front for most players.

Probably because they have? I think at one point, when the first colossals were released, they said they had basically used all their ideas from MK1 so everything else coming out was going to be new ideas.

 RiTides wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

I'm not to the "nothing" point, but I have followed a similar arc, and gravitated back to GW games! 30K in particular, as it seems to draw a more mature crowd (could be the barrier to entry, though ).

But that's why I posted what I did above - despite their interacting with the community a lot and trying to salvage the release of MK3 with frequent erratas, I only see reactions to symptoms... the real question is what direction they're heading in overall. I play Minions, and we actually haven't had anything released in MK3 except Commandos... a unit that is basically unfieldable. We just got a tease that we'll have a large based model coming in a year... but everything I've seen from PP since MK3 convinces me that it was NOT planned far in advance, and they're scrambling since.

I actually think it was a reaction to Guild Ball and competitive players jumping to that game... but a rushed new edition can do more harm than good, and I'm already wishing they would just do a real fix and make an "MK3.5" that actually works, rather than "MK3 + errata every 3 months"...

So right now I'm just waiting to see, and will try it again with Wehrkind when we get the chance - but I'm not too optimistic of their direction. Even the Minions PP board has dived down in activity lately... there's just nothing to talk about, and I don't think the Grymkin are helping on that front for most players.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal, but I suspect X-wing is a bigger culprit in grabbing players from WMH. From people I know up in Seattle and from a couple comments on this board, X-wing is the main game there and that's PP's hometown! WMH use to be the dominate game up there, so if X-wing has replaced it, PP is likely panicking. Loosing your hometown to another game is not good.

In all the posts where people talked about the strengths of X-wing over 40k, a lot of those points could be applied against WMH as well.

 Thanatos73 wrote:

 skullking wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

Spoiler:

Some neat designs, but overall I think the faction feels out of place in the Iron Kingdoms. I was getting a Malifaux vibe throughout the video.

Spoiler:

I agree, it definitely doesn't fit the aesthetic of the rest of the WarmaHordes world. I'm guessing they were going for a kind of Old Russian/Brothers Grimm fairy tale take on everything, but it feels like it missed that mark a bit. I do like the models, but they seem like they're from a different time frame then the rest of the sort of 'Renaissance/Steampunk' era that most of the armies in the game are. Though Convergence is certainly different as well, they still seem to work. As a Khador player, I like the new Epic Witch, she was always one of my favorite casters, and the fact that I can use her with these other beasts is cool too.

I'm a bit surprised the Orlock (Orgoth?) who formerly controlled the area these armies are from haven't emerged as a new army. Seems like they'd be a good fit.

You won't be able to take Zhavna Agha with beasts in a Khador army. She is Old Witch 2 and uses jacks for Khador. She is Old Witch 3 for Grymkin. Confirmed by PP staff that the model will come with two sets of cards, one for her as a Warcaster and one for her as a Warlock. So as a Warcaster she takes Khadoran Jacks. As a Warlock she takes Grymkin Beasts.

The Orgoth are never coming back. PP has said this on many occasions. Cryx use a lot of Orgoth magic in their armies so they'd be similar Cryx in how they play. Plus it's been heavily alluded to that when the Orgoth retreated, humans sent a plague with them that wiped out most of their kingdom. PP could always change their minds here but it seems unlikely as they've always been steadfast against the Orgoth returning.

The Grymkin seem out of time from the other factions as they are the Defiers are basically demons at this point. They are ones who stood up to Menoth and his Law and were cast into hell for it. The faction are their nightmares made flesh that seem to steal people's souls and punish their sins. Each Defier pretty much embodies a different deadly sin. The faction seems to be a mix of hell, folklore and horror stories. I like the feel of it and hopefully it comes together a bit more in the full fluff.

I had assumed you wouldn't be able to play Zhavna as a Warlock with a Khador army, I just didn't know if she had a similar set up to Magnus 2 and the Skorne, where if you have a skorne army, and it's big enough to take 2 warlocks, you can take Magnus 2,and he can have his warjacks, but everything else is still Skorne/hordes.

I'm fine with it either way, as that's just more models I dont need to buy (the Grymkin beasts), but that being said, if I could use her in this way, I would probably get a few beast, just on the oft chance I could use her in 2 warcaster, or battlegroup only games.

Too bad that they're against using the Orgoth for anything. With GW dipping back into their past and fluff for a lot of their new stuff and having success with it, it doesn't seem like such a bad idea. If we ever get squats (or Demiurg), I suppose that would be their equivalent of having the Orgoth (even though the Squats did actually have an army at one point).

I realize the Grymkin are more like daemonic creatures, but their asthetic seems to modern for the iron kingdoms. They seem like 1920's/30's characters and designs vs most of the world having a very victorian steampunk vibe. If anything, they are VERY different then anything currently in the world, so I can't give them flak for not thinking outside the box.

Orgoth were never part of the tabletop for PP though. They were always the bogeyman of the PP world. The one thing that could get the Iron Kingdoms to stop fighting each other would be the Orgoth.

They weren't dwarves either, just humans who used soul magic.

They have a whole continent that hasn't shown up directly, I would hope they would elect to explore that continent with new factions rather than dredge up yet another from the area they already have. It almost feels like the Iron Kingdoms are overcrowded with factions to me; there are so many all layered on top of one another in a relatively small area of the world; why doesn't the other 80% matter at all? I know there are reasons for this (beyond the simple mechanics of making it work on the tabletop), but it's a feeling that has always made me shy away from the lore a little.

Eurocentric, duh

Sining wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

I'm not to the "nothing" point, but I have followed a similar arc, and gravitated back to GW games! 30K in particular, as it seems to draw a more mature crowd (could be the barrier to entry, though ).

But that's why I posted what I did above - despite their interacting with the community a lot and trying to salvage the release of MK3 with frequent erratas, I only see reactions to symptoms... the real question is what direction they're heading in overall. I play Minions, and we actually haven't had anything released in MK3 except Commandos... a unit that is basically unfieldable. We just got a tease that we'll have a large based model coming in a year... but everything I've seen from PP since MK3 convinces me that it was NOT planned far in advance, and they're scrambling since.

I actually think it was a reaction to Guild Ball and competitive players jumping to that game... but a rushed new edition can do more harm than good, and I'm already wishing they would just do a real fix and make an "MK3.5" that actually works, rather than "MK3 + errata every 3 months"...

So right now I'm just waiting to see, and will try it again with Wehrkind when we get the chance - but I'm not too optimistic of their direction. Even the Minions PP board has dived down in activity lately... there's just nothing to talk about, and I don't think the Grymkin are helping on that front for most players.

Probably because they have? I think at one point, when the first colossals were released, they said they had basically used all their ideas from MK1 so everything else coming out was going to be new ideas.

Not true at all. A modern version of Colossals had been foreshadowed in the Mk1 expansion Superiority (noting as well the Circle Gargantuan has been in the rpg since before WMH was even a thing). They were always going to appear even before Mk2 was conceived.

Well well well. As a Malifaux Neverborn player, these are rather nice. I'll be adding some to the collection for sure - mostly the Dread Rots, because I love me some pumpkin headed monsters, and the Witch Wood, which is just fantastic.Possibly The Dreamer as well if the sculpt is anything like that art.

Ruin wrote:

Sining wrote:

 RiTides wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Basically nothing about the game excites me now, when before I was 100% on the Warmahordes bandwagon, but in the past year or so I actually rediscovered GW games and they, for whatever reason, feel a lot better to me (although nowhere near as clear with the rules and such).

I'm not to the "nothing" point, but I have followed a similar arc, and gravitated back to GW games! 30K in particular, as it seems to draw a more mature crowd (could be the barrier to entry, though ).

But that's why I posted what I did above - despite their interacting with the community a lot and trying to salvage the release of MK3 with frequent erratas, I only see reactions to symptoms... the real question is what direction they're heading in overall. I play Minions, and we actually haven't had anything released in MK3 except Commandos... a unit that is basically unfieldable. We just got a tease that we'll have a large based model coming in a year... but everything I've seen from PP since MK3 convinces me that it was NOT planned far in advance, and they're scrambling since.

I actually think it was a reaction to Guild Ball and competitive players jumping to that game... but a rushed new edition can do more harm than good, and I'm already wishing they would just do a real fix and make an "MK3.5" that actually works, rather than "MK3 + errata every 3 months"...

So right now I'm just waiting to see, and will try it again with Wehrkind when we get the chance - but I'm not too optimistic of their direction. Even the Minions PP board has dived down in activity lately... there's just nothing to talk about, and I don't think the Grymkin are helping on that front for most players.

Probably because they have? I think at one point, when the first colossals were released, they said they had basically used all their ideas from MK1 so everything else coming out was going to be new ideas.

Not true at all. A modern version of Colossals had been foreshadowed in the Mk1 expansion Superiority (noting as well the Circle Gargantuan has been in the rpg since before WMH was even a thing). They were always going to appear even before Mk2 was conceived.

Isn't that what I said? After colossals, they used up all their ideas from mk1