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I read something in that thread which confused me:
Obviously. The faction was limited. Nobody should be a "CoC player". Convergence were meant to be a side project for people who already played. It is obvious that the limited faction would primarily be of interest while it was new. It's no longer new, it doesn't get new models - it was limited. It was a one-time thing. I don't see the point in acting like this is some terrible surprising thing. In four years, not many people will be playing the NHF either. That doesn't mean that it won't be a really fun and cool side project for people to get into now.
Is that really the intent of these "limited" factions? To be side projects and not really be the main focus of players? Or is that simply one player's perception?
What is the advantage of a limited faction over an "unlimited" faction?
If the faction gets a starter box, it's obviously meant to be something that new people might get into as their first faction.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: What is the advantage of a limited faction over an "unlimited" faction?
When PP released CoC, they were pretty clear that nobody was to expect any further updates or models. They weren't ruling it out, normally PP includes broadly similar updates to each faction in each book. So, each faction gets a new warcaster, a new character jack, a new solo, a new unit attachement, etc. CoC would not take part in that, and would be updated if/when they could be.
The advantage is that it allows PP to play with new ideas, often fairly major ones, without the obligation to keep going with the idea of it doesn't work out and/or they lose interest.
In some ways it similar to the "half armies" GW is putting out for 40k, like Stormtroopers, harlies, or Deathwatch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
frozenwastes wrote: If the faction gets a starter box, it's obviously meant to be something that new people might get into as their first faction.
Not necessarily, as plenty of people start new factions with the starter box.
I don't think PP every officially stated that it's not for new players, but I can't imagine anybody exactly encouraging it either.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/13 20:29:46
DarkTraveler777 wrote: What is the advantage of a limited faction over an "unlimited" faction?
When PP released CoC, they were pretty clear that nobody was to expect any further updates or models. They weren't ruling it out, normally PP includes broadly similar updates to each faction in each book. So, each faction gets a new warcaster, a new character jack, a new solo, a new unit attachement, etc. CoC would not take part in that, and would be updated if/when they could be.
The advantage is that it allows PP to play with new ideas, often fairly major ones, without the obligation to keep going with the idea of it doesn't work out and/or they lose interest.
In some ways it similar to the "half armies" GW is putting out for 40k, like Stormtroopers, harlies, or Deathwatch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
frozenwastes wrote: If the faction gets a starter box, it's obviously meant to be something that new people might get into as their first faction.
Not necessarily, as plenty of people start new factions with the starter box.
I don't think PP every officially stated that it's not for new players, but I can't imagine anybody exactly encouraging it either.
Thanks for the explanation that makes sense.
It does seem like a risk on the player's part to buy into a limited army if there is little to no future support. Especially in a game as evolving as WM/H.
It does seem like a risk on the player's part to buy into a limited army if there is little to no future support. Especially in a game as evolving as WM/H.
You're welcome.
Yeah, I think it was a risk, but not really that different than building any army in WM/H, given the shifts in meta. PP likes to both make money, and put out a reasonably balanced game, so if the faction were terrible, there likely would have been a few teaks added. Plenty of people just wanted to run something different (and CoC were very different).
The most regret I heard from people was trying to clean/assemble the first run restic models. Apparently they were unusually awful.
Sorry, but if you have a starter on the shelves for every faction, a new player might pick any of them. This talk about the release being for existing players as a side project makes no sense as there is nothing on the box differentiating it for new players. It's possible PP sees their limited armies as not meant for new players, but they do nothing to differentiate them. It also doesn't matter that the starter is also bought by people starting their second faction as that is true of almost every faction (that doesn't have a bad starter).
The defacto retail side of things simply has no differentiation.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
Polonius wrote: The most regret I heard from people was trying to clean/assemble the first run restic models. Apparently they were unusually awful.
My enthusiasm for CoC died quickly after EVERY. SINGLE. PURCHASE. required me going to the website and showing what was missing or mismoulded. Hard to keep enthusiasm when you have a 3-4 week delay after purchase before you can assemble.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: What is the advantage of a limited faction over an "unlimited" faction?
When PP released CoC, they were pretty clear that nobody was to expect any further updates or models. They weren't ruling it out, normally PP includes broadly similar updates to each faction in each book. So, each faction gets a new warcaster, a new character jack, a new solo, a new unit attachement, etc. CoC would not take part in that, and would be updated if/when they could be.
The advantage is that it allows PP to play with new ideas, often fairly major ones, without the obligation to keep going with the idea of it doesn't work out and/or they lose interest.
In some ways it similar to the "half armies" GW is putting out for 40k, like Stormtroopers, harlies, or Deathwatch.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
frozenwastes wrote: If the faction gets a starter box, it's obviously meant to be something that new people might get into as their first faction.
Not necessarily, as plenty of people start new factions with the starter box.
I don't think PP every officially stated that it's not for new players, but I can't imagine anybody exactly encouraging it either.
Thanks for the explanation that makes sense.
It does seem like a risk on the player's part to buy into a limited army if there is little to no future support. Especially in a game as evolving as WM/H.
A lot of people had NO idea what limited release meant when PP first said it. They knew that COC wouldn't be updated as frequently as the main 8 factions, but they thought maybe they would get new stuff maybe every 2 years or so.
So far, the only new thing that has been released since COC first came out in 2013(?) has been a new colossal, which is part of the usual PP 2-variant colossal molds. So basically it's a variant of the original existing colossal that PP seems to love doing for all their colossals. Since then, NOTHING.
It's not even as good as the limited armies in WH40k, such as deathwatch etc etc since you can always take allies in wh40k. In COC, you have no allies IIRC. You can't even take mercs IIRC.
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
frozenwastes wrote: If the faction gets a starter box, it's obviously meant to be something that new people might get into as their first faction.
Convergence don't have a starter box in Mk3.
I haven't been paying that much attention to the MK3 starters. Given how fiddly and awful the plastic miniatures were in the MK2 starter for Convergence, that's reason enough not to inflict those models on a new player.
I like the idea of side factions that are not meant to be a person's only faction. When convergence was released, there was nothing about the release that would differentiate it from any other faction to someone who didn't already play the game. Now there is.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
Some neat designs, but overall I think the faction feels out of place in the Iron Kingdoms. I was getting a Malifaux vibe throughout the video.
I agree, it definitely doesn't fit the aesthetic of the rest of the WarmaHordes world. I'm guessing they were going for a kind of Old Russian/Brothers Grimm fairy tale take on everything, but it feels like it missed that mark a bit. I do like the models, but they seem like they're from a different time frame then the rest of the sort of 'Renaissance/Steampunk' era that most of the armies in the game are. Though Convergence is certainly different as well, they still seem to work. As a Khador player, I like the new Epic Witch, she was always one of my favorite casters, and the fact that I can use her with these other beasts is cool too.
I'm a bit surprised the Orlock (Orgoth?) who formerly controlled the area these armies are from haven't emerged as a new army. Seems like they'd be a good fit.
DarkTraveler777 wrote: Not sure if this belongs here or in its own thread, but the new Grymkin Hordes faction has been revealed.
Spoiler:
Pretty nice, though all the rhymes are terrible for non-native speakers. I quickly gave up on trying to understand that part and waited for more direct fluff explanation…
If they want to do that they should at least add subtitles to their videos.
The models are nice, though I feel like they won't have much visual coherency on the battlefield. That beautiful First Heretic priest looks splendid but nothing like that huge SM cage-holding guy, and none of those looks like piggy cavalry or hollow men…
Also, PP, YET ONE MORE EVIL SEDUCTRESS THINGY? Aren't there enough of those already?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
Some neat designs, but overall I think the faction feels out of place in the Iron Kingdoms. I was getting a Malifaux vibe throughout the video.
I agree, it definitely doesn't fit the aesthetic of the rest of the WarmaHordes world. I'm guessing they were going for a kind of Old Russian/Brothers Grimm fairy tale take on everything, but it feels like it missed that mark a bit. I do like the models, but they seem like they're from a different time frame then the rest of the sort of 'Renaissance/Steampunk' era that most of the armies in the game are. Though Convergence is certainly different as well, they still seem to work. As a Khador player, I like the new Epic Witch, she was always one of my favorite casters, and the fact that I can use her with these other beasts is cool too.
I'm a bit surprised the Orlock (Orgoth?) who formerly controlled the area these armies are from haven't emerged as a new army. Seems like they'd be a good fit.
You won't be able to take Zhavna Agha with beasts in a Khador army. She is Old Witch 2 and uses jacks for Khador. She is Old Witch 3 for Grymkin. Confirmed by PP staff that the model will come with two sets of cards, one for her as a Warcaster and one for her as a Warlock. So as a Warcaster she takes Khadoran Jacks. As a Warlock she takes Grymkin Beasts.
The Orgoth are never coming back. PP has said this on many occasions. Cryx use a lot of Orgoth magic in their armies so they'd be similar Cryx in how they play. Plus it's been heavily alluded to that when the Orgoth retreated, humans sent a plague with them that wiped out most of their kingdom. PP could always change their minds here but it seems unlikely as they've always been steadfast against the Orgoth returning.
The Grymkin seem out of time from the other factions as they are the Defiers are basically demons at this point. They are ones who stood up to Menoth and his Law and were cast into hell for it. The faction are their nightmares made flesh that seem to steal people's souls and punish their sins. Each Defier pretty much embodies a different deadly sin. The faction seems to be a mix of hell, folklore and horror stories. I like the feel of it and hopefully it comes together a bit more in the full fluff.
I may actually have a hordes faction in this as I would like a limited release so I don't have to keep up with the Joneses. I have enough Warmachine factions for that already.
The guy with the cages looks ok and the doggy too, the others... Bleh..
As if the Nightmare before Christmas animated movie was fit into the Iron Kingdoms, and IMHO the splicing of the two doesn't work too well. I like, that they moved away from the idea of making a regular army (a set race, with a definite country on the map), and tried to do this one with many unique characters.
I guess now all the spooky stuff will be associated with Malifaux Nevernorn/resurrectionists, and (I might be biased here, since I collect Neverborne and Ressers) in comparison minis PP tries to sell us look pale and not up to date in terms of details.
For being nightmares, the grymkin aren't very scary. I mean, in a world with cryx and legion monsters, pumpkin heads and talking pigs don't really cut it
My warmachine batrep & other misc stuff blog
http://sining83.blogspot.com/
Sining wrote: For being nightmares, the grymkin aren't very scary. I mean, in a world with cryx and legion monsters, pumpkin heads and talking pigs don't really cut it
They're not that kind of scary. The units you named are full of ironic, faustian-esq. punishments.
Cyriss is not everybody's darling. Its a sparse release without the dedication a faction needs to be successful.
I hope PP has a better hand when releasing the new Hordes faction.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/18 13:38:01
Former moderator 40kOnline
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Sining wrote: For being nightmares, the grymkin aren't very scary.
What makes a scary nightmare is subjective. For exmaple:
“I'm your worst nightmare!' said Teatime cheerfully.
The man shuddered.
'You mean ... the one with the giant cabbage and the sort of whirring knife thing?'
'Sorry?' Teatime looked momentarily nonplussed.
'Then you're the one where I'm falling, only instead of the ground underneath it's all --'
'No. In fact I'm --'
The guard sagged. 'Awww, not the one where there's all this kind of, you know, mud and then everything goes blue --'
'No, I'm --'
'Oh, gak, then you're the one where there's this door only there's no floor beyond it and then there's these claws --'
'No,' said Teatime. 'Not that one.' He withdrew a dagger from his sleeve. 'I'm the one where this man comes out of nowhere and kills you, stone dead.”
'Oh,' said the guard. 'Well that one's not very scary at all.'
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/18 13:32:50
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
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