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Trajann is worthless now post nerf. He's not worth the cost. Bike Captain, Terminator Captain, and 2x3 Sag, with 1x5 SoS would be best.

Ok. Would you always take the bikes still? I don’t agree traj is worthless. But let’s not go down that road now 😅


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Sorry for spamming, but what is the correct build of the plate captain at the moment? Does he need auric exemplar? I like to have that on my bike cap but then I dont really know how to make the plate guy Killy. how is he typically build now and how should I play him?

trajann is still our best HQ, but if you take him you have to drop the bike cap because points.

Trajann and a Centura is still the best bang for the buck on HQ's atm in a battalion.

With the CP reductions in Nephilim, trajann gives you an HQ with a relic weapon, and 3 WL traits for 0 CP cost.

Yup. I agree. What about Trajan and the plate cap instead of the centura? Is the centura still the best choice with traj if you only run a few girls?

Also, how do you build the plate cap now and what is his role and are the bikes still mandatory?

Lastly, what about those dread spam lists? Is 6 assorted contemptora viable? Something Like 2x vanilla, 2x achillus and 2x galatus?

The Centura is only there cause she's cheap and gives you access to some psychic defence.

You can spend 1 of your 6 CP to give her the relic flamer and she actually can do damage, or 1 to give her silent judge so she can turn off obsec. Both options are pretty useful.

Dreadspam is one playstyle where you go min troops 3x3 and take the dreads to flood the board with units. Its gonna be real good into lists that spam 2 damage attacks (other stodes) or that spam str6 and less. It wont be good into mortal wounds and anti-tank.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
Yup. I agree. What about Trajan and the plate cap instead of the centura? Is the centura still the best choice with traj if you only run a few girls?

Also, how do you build the plate cap now and what is his role and are the bikes still mandatory?

Lastly, what about those dread spam lists? Is 6 assorted contemptora viable? Something Like 2x vanilla, 2x achillus and 2x galatus?

The praetotian plate captain is not really viable anymore since the loss of obsec. When talking about dread spam it's almost always 3 Achillus and 3 venerable contemptors with multimelta.
Trajann is still definitely a must take even after the points increase. Bikes still pop up in most lists, they are still a very good and fast anti tank option.

thanks, guys. Great points!

Looks like bikes are back. Two second place finishes last weekend, both lists built around spamming salvo bikes.

Dreads are good but slow. Bikes are fast, shooty, and can melee things off distant objectives. IMO they are still the premier Custodes unit in 9e.

Cool. Were Can i see those lists?

Good luck playing a Bike list. I've been flat out told by numerous other players that they will not play me if I use that list. Even though it has glaring weaknesses, it's still really ugly to play against.

If you are instead going full competitive, that changes things.

Thing is, Bikes, have to be taken in large groups due to Ro3. The other bad problem is that you quickly run outside the range of your buffers, like captains, flags, and Trajann. Finally, you are pretty much giving up the objectives, due to lack of obsec.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
Cool. Were Can i see those lists?

https://40kstats.goonhammer.com/#t4

artific3r wrote:
Looks like bikes are back. Two second place finishes last weekend, both lists built around spamming salvo bikes.

Dreads are good but slow. Bikes are fast, shooty, and can melee things off distant objectives. IMO they are still the premier Custodes unit in 9e.

Those were pretty small tournaments. Not really indicative of meta ability

Yeah, that's what I figured. Bikes are capable of good damage, but not in enough ways to make them as versatile as our Contemptors. I think we have boots and Bots to look forward to until 10th.

Yeah, i agree. Biles are also super frail, imo. Thing is i want to see a bots and Boots list but they are no where to be seen!

That's because they are suffering from Codex Creep. No one plays them competitively anymore, because they aren't SUPER HOT. Right now it's Nids, and Chaos I think?

The meta is some combination of contemptors, caladius, and bikes. I suspect builds with 9+ bikes will remain a force to be reckoned with. I haven’t seen any recent lists that take more than 2-3 contemptors. I also haven’t yet seen the venerable contemptors that AoW was so hot about recently.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That's because they are suffering from Codex Creep. No one plays them competitively anymore, because they aren't SUPER HOT. Right now it's Nids, and Chaos I think?

LOL nobody is playing Chaos Marines I can assure you that. Last total winnings for bigger tournaments was 45%, which is dreadful for a new codex.

Their Codex comparitively just dropped. Give them a couple months, and we'll see some chaos lists.

tanglefoot grenade is still useless vs. death guard, right? inexorable advance rule shuts it off, nothing changed there?

Yeah, by the rulings in one of the dev commentary, it does NOT stop the DG. And is only slightly less worthless everywhere else.

had the most insane game ever yesterday vs DG. I ran

Trajan
Bike cap

2x3 sag
prosecutors

2x venerable
achillus
galatus

2x3 salvo bikes
witchseekers (yeah, I know. but I hade 70 points left exactly.)

he ran the tourney list with morty that just won something last week. we played all five rounds and used every inch of the table. I went too far too early and got smashed on 2 objectives. Then I lured morty to the center and tried to smash him with all I had left (I would score 15 for auric mortals. yeah not an optimum choice of secondary But I wanted to try it out).

he survived my first attempt with 3 wounds but then I got him the next turn. We fought back and forth until the last turn and I won narrowly.

Amazing game. Love nephilim. 9th never felt better : )

I will agree, I feel like this is the most balanced that Custodes have ever felt. We are not OP, but we aren't gutter trash either.

Althopugh I feel like your opponent was silly to throw Morty at you in the Center, and the dice were on your side (We lose that fight no matter what 5/6 times) I still feel this is the best we've been since launch in 8th. We don't have any glaring need for nerfs, and our best units are very iffy.

I really want to see axes maybe do 3 damage instead of 2, but oh well.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I will agree, I feel like this is the most balanced that Custodes have ever felt. We are not OP, but we aren't gutter trash either.

Althopugh I feel like your opponent was silly to throw Morty at you in the Center, and the dice were on your side (We lose that fight no matter what 5/6 times) I still feel this is the best we've been since launch in 8th. We don't have any glaring need for nerfs, and our best units are very iffy.

I really want to see axes maybe do 3 damage instead of 2, but oh well.

yeah, he was in a tough spot though. he was winning but wasn't really using his 450point centerpiece as he was trying to avoid giving me 15 points. But he had the chance to get my bikes in maybe even Trajan in the center. we played the mission that cuts all your cp if warlord dies. So he played miasma and went for the bikes with a 6inch charge with a reroll. he missed and now my silly trap was actually dangerous as my bikes were still in the mix.

so my turn I move all remaining units within range up to shoot and charge. 6 bikes, Trajan, Achillus, galatus with 1 wound and 3 saggitarum. I move into dacatarai for more attacks (in hindsight maybe the sixes auto wound on monsters one had been better). I get him down to 5 wounds in the shooting as 2 dam6 missiles pass through for a whopping 8 dam (I think) after reduction and FNPs. then I just can't get anything through in melee even with slayers of nightmares (morty turns of rerolls and miasma is hard) and he survives with 2 wounds. he kills 3 bikes I think and then falls back on his turn, iirc, as morty would probably not get the opportunity to fight and he rather wanted to get a final cp. His termies charge my remaining bikes and Morty then dies next turn. from there on I manage a crazy comeback and with my fifteen points in the bank I get the win after scoring 4-4 the first two turns vs his 8-12.

the morty thing was a tough call for him. just having such a piece in the backfield feels wierd and he would have won if he had made that charge I think.

Either way he ended up doing it wrong in the end thats for sure.

guys, are telemons completely out of the question at the moment? I check out their stats again and again.. they have such weak shooting imo. I just saw the winning list from last week that ran 2 armiger helverins. I was stunned to look them up and realize they cost 100 points less than a telemon and are twice as good.

Please convince me that telemons are not horrible`?


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how should I run them? im thinking two culverins or a culverin and a caestus to keep them down in points. but.. the archnus seems, I dont want to say good, but decent maybe?

Telemons arent horrible.
Armigers also arent "twice as good" - they got more firepower, but pay for that in defensive stats.
The Telemon is basically THE toughest vehicle in the game rn.
Which, unfortunately, doesnt win you games.. or mean much.
Telemons are best use with a combo loadout. Illiastus seem to be preferable at this stage.

Ok. Im glad you have at least a little faith in Them. So one culverin and a fist or two culverin?

I sort of want to run two and run Them up the Field instead of Holding the backline so ceastus seams better. To keep Them relevant in two phases i mean.

Definitely mixed loadout.
If you go dual gun, you are really bad in melee.
If you go dual fist, you gain 1 flamer and 1A.

The mixed loadout is basically the best of two worlds - you can reach out while you close in on something and then pummel it when you're there.
Telemons are not exactly a competitive option, but they're not terrible.
For standard play, they're still a solid anchor that takes some work to take down.

 Thairne wrote:
Definitely mixed loadout.
If you go dual gun, you are really bad in melee.
If you go dual fist, you gain 1 flamer and 1A.

The mixed loadout is basically the best of two worlds - you can reach out while you close in on something and then pummel it when you're there.
Telemons are not exactly a competitive option, but they're not terrible.
For standard play, they're still a solid anchor that takes some work to take down.

Two key notes though regarding the dual gun loadout though:
1. You can shoot in melee. That extra gun, for most targets, is about the same as the first overall
2. The gun is 48" of range so it isn't like it'll be too difficult to position safely

I'm sorry, but no

Just compare the stats:
A dual gun telemon gives you:
8 S7 -3 2D shots.
4 S8 0 1D attacks.

A mixed telemon gives you:
4 S7 -3 2D shots
2D3 S6 -2 1D autohits
5 S16 -4 4D attacks

it not only gives you a wider profile for defending yourself, those 4 S8 attacks will likely bounce of any armour you find and then deal 1W.
A shooty telemon kills 4 MEQ per turn. 7 if you shoot in combat.

A mixed telemon kills 2 on approach with the illiastus, another with the flamer, then 4 with the caestus.
While thats "only" 7, remember that this gun is specifically designed to kill MEQs.
What if you run into a vehicle? A monstrous creature? A horde? Or even a dreadnought? This would all skew the results largely in the favour of the mixed loadout.

Ok, so im playing later today. I want to run this and breathe one life into my telemons.



I kept two guns on the second telemon as I picture him as a backline holder. but maybe thats just silly. Thairne makes sense. should I just go fist/culverin on him too?

Ive been playing 2x3 bikes since for ever and I realize custodes have NO ranged anti tank without them, I hope ill get through with this still, though.

Any other comments?