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The only complaints most of us had about the 3.5 dex were that it was too powerful in places. Some of the daemon weapons were absurd, and Siren was so broken that Chaos players in many parts of the world refused to use it.

So with it coming out the 25th, think we'll see pre-orders and pictures this week on their site for the box sets?

pretre wrote:

Melissia wrote:Have CSM players EVER been satisfied with a codex?

I submit that, as a general group, they have not.


Jokes aside, I'm interested in what this Dragon is.... might be fun to convert in to something for my IG. Dunno though, if it's an honest to Emperor MC it wouldn't work, but if it's a vehicle...

That's like asking if sisters players ever stop playing the martyr.

Good lord we are being compared to Sisters players, it is time to pull it together guys!

I for one am really stoked with what I have seen so far. BTW the dread won't strike at I1 walkers and Mc's ignore the Unwieldy USR.

Wait a moment: Regular Joe CSM cost 14 points? Carry a CCW, Bolter and B. Pistol, buy a special weapons for 5/10/15 points, get 2 of them on squad of 10, can exchange one of them for a Heavy Weapon, and have a Sarge who actually make part of the team (and can make the unit stubborn)?

Hell, i dont know if I laugh of Sisters of Battle Players (who pay 13 points for the same, with "-1 in everything" profile, and no ccw), or if i cheer the ideia that Grey Hunters are not "undercosted" anymore...

Well don't forget that regular joe haze zero special rules; plus if you extrapolate from the latest rumors with Havoc's being 13 that reg Joe may be as well.

Sisters have their silly faith stuff, but I agree. lulz...

Sorry pretre, time to update more! Thanks again for your hard work.

Faeit 212 updated their info today, with this:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++
The 25th is the white dwarf which is all about the new starter and chaos space marines.

Pre-Orders for the new starter set begin on the 25th, for release on the 1st.

Pre-Order for Chaos Space Marines go up on the 8th and the entirety of their range will be released in two waves on the 15th and the 29th.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

His info is between the "+"s.

I hope its true.

Cool, I'll have to update it tomorrow when I get into work

BDJV wrote:Well don't forget that regular joe haze zero special rules; plus if you extrapolate from the latest rumors with Havoc's being 13 that reg Joe may be as well.

Sisters have their silly faith stuff, but I agree. lulz...

If Chaos Marines keep all of their wargear but lose 1 LD and are reduced to 13 as you say, or even 14...dang. That's gonna be ridiculous. 15 point Marines was good as it was but being reduced to 13 is pretty crazy.

I also feel like Phil Kelly really likes heavy weapon squads. First Long Fangs, and now Havocs. Even if all of their heavy stuff gets reduced in price by only 10 points, that'll be 23 point Autocannon Marines!

Updated FP with Tastytastes and Faeit info.

I think CSM's losing LD would be one of the few things that would make me throw dummy out of the pram... what justification at all is there for that? These guys live in the bowls of a nightmare most of the time and manage to maintain coherency...

TBH though.. I don't understand the winging otherwise. We've not seen any of the rules, we're only going off rumours.. some of which contradict one another and most don't give half the details of the units.. how many special rules and the likes have we seen amongst these rumours?

Peh. Dreadnought starting with a PF.. so.. what upgrades does the dude get? Can he be demoniacally possessed and run round with a 5++. No pods? How about warp rifts?

We've been let down massively with the last codex and left to put up with it for years but lets try and stay positive. You guys kill any excitement with this perpetual cynicism.

I'm just gonna have to wait and see the final codex for myself. Too many of these rumors contradict each other.

Most of this sounds pretty interesting (even Abbadon), but poor Huron has to roll random powers each turn? That terrible with his Mastery Level 1. Oh well, he wasn't popular before anyways.

I'm interested in seeing how the cultist upgrades work (looks like they can get the flails?) with Tzeentch and Slaanesh. The other gods better get something as cool as turning them into zombies

We should know more this week

Semper wrote:I think CSM's losing LD would be one of the few things that would make me throw dummy out of the pram... what justification at all is there for that? These guys live in the bowls of a nightmare most of the time and manage to maintain coherency...

I have to agree.

Marines get ATSKNF. CSMs get Ld9. It's the 'balance' between the two. Reducing them to Ld8 kinda kills that.

But then again maybe they'll get their own Leadership rule.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TzeentchNet wrote:... but poor Huron has to roll random powers each turn?

Remember that it's 6th Ed now, where Random = Cinematic!

H.B.M.C. wrote:Remember that it's 6th Ed now, where Random = Cinematic!

Random charges and other such mechanics sure have generated alot of drama in various threads on dakka so I guess its a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Why even have Huron? Toss that wannabe out, give me someone legit like Honsou or Eliphas

So far, these rumors give me mixed feelings and are starting to make me feel that Cruddace must be writing this...

Some good stuff here in this last update, but on the average...meh.

Special Characters show how damn lazy GW has become. Pretty much all of them are "same as before, BUT" and then some minor change. Kharn will still be PF fodder but a bit worse, Huron is still lame but now doesn't even get to know what powers he'll have. Bile still blows. Ahriman and Lucius actually sound interesting, depending on their cost.

The Hellbeast 'dread' is a laugh. A walker striking at Iniatiative 1 is free victory points to any unit with grenades now.

No different Landraider options.

Dragon is way too expensive and not durable anough to face the cheap flyer spams by IG and Necrons. Probably coming in the overcrowded Heavy slot.

Daemon Weapons still smack you, Possessed still roll to determine if they are a waste of points or not. Chosen lose Infiltrate, which was actually still helpful for them as they were a shooty unit. (Only sternguard get to show up on the enemy flank via drop pod and hit defenseless troops!)

No access to Divination, which is bunk. Guess they are saving it for the 'good' guys so they keep buying.

Unique items actually seem nice, depending on their cost. But overall, is feels like a good 5th edition army from before assault was made complicated and unreliable.

To have such an in dpeth knowledge of the Codex you have obviously read it and fully understand its contents.

If you so resent speculative discussion of rumours so much, why do you even read past the summary on page 1?

There is speculation and then there is baseless whining. Guess what this thread is full of?

Palindrome wrote:There is speculation and then there is baseless whining. Guess what this thread is full of?

Whatever opinions tossed out here, positive or negative, are based on the latest rumors. It's entirely possible that they data is not accurate and the opinions are void. But it's entirely legitimate to opine of what they would mean for the army in the meantime.

So stop whining, fanboy.

Sephyr wrote:Kharn will still be PF fodder but a bit worse

Not to sound dismissive, but have you played 6th edition with characters in squads yet?

Sephyr wrote:
So stop whining, fanboy.

You are so incredibly wrong that I am going to sig that.

Sephyr wrote:The Hellbeast 'dread' is a laugh. A walker striking at Iniatiative 1 is free victory points to any unit with grenades now..

As has been mentioned, a few times now, it does not strike at I1.

Sephyr wrote:Dragon is way too expensive and not durable anough to face the cheap flyer spams by IG and Necrons. Probably coming in the overcrowded Heavy slot.

It has a 5+ invulnerable save, is immune to stunned/shaken and recovers a HP once a turn on a 5+ roll. And we don't actually know how many HP it has.

Palindrome wrote:There is speculation and then there is baseless whining. Guess what this thread is full of?

Pretty much. I'm sure we'll see people freak out about "I1" Hell Brutes at least 10 more times, even though its been pointed out multiple times MC and walkers strike at initiative with powerfists. But of course when you invalidate the reasons people have for ranting, you are a fanboy and shouldn't bother reading past the first post. Same gak, different codex.

Melissia wrote:Have CSM players EVER been satisfied with a codex?

I submit that, as a general group, they have not.


Jokes aside, I'm interested in what this Dragon is.... might be fun to convert in to something for my IG. Dunno though, if it's an honest to Emperor MC it wouldn't work, but if it's a vehicle...

I'm actually alright with the 4th edition codex, having done fun things with it and have only fielded a single squad of PM once-no cookie cutter lists for me. That said, I didn't get to experience the 3.5 codex. I also look forward to having 16pt Noise Marines if the newest rumors work out: I have a bunch of fully metal 3rd edition models of them, and I'll really enjoy fielding them with my daemons. Of course, if I don't enjoy the codex, I'll probably offload my Chaos Marines. I'm looking to thin down Warhammer armies, so if the CSM book fails to impress me, my models will go. It depends on the options and how fun it is, not the over-powered-ness of it.

The codex still sounds meh, since our troops and hqs have had only minor tweaks. Abbadon making chosen troops seems interesting though would have prefered he made chaos termi's troops.

English Assassin wrote:If you so resent speculative discussion of rumours so much, why do you even read past the summary on page 1?

What's funny is that these same people who go into threads about speculative rumor discussion and complain because people are speculatively discussing rumors are probably also the same type of people who think that if you criticize GW in a thread about GW then you shouldn't post on the forums at all.

It's just more of that "If you don't agree with me you aren't allowed to have a voice!" bs, nothing more.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Marines get ATSKNF. CSMs get Ld9. It's the 'balance' between the two. Reducing them to Ld8 kinda kills that.

But then again maybe they'll get their own Leadership rule.

I think it balances out as CSM have more visceral bonuses with things like BP/CCW and access to marks which change their statlines. Loyalist Marines get LD9 almost all the time anyway, since sergeants are mandatory.

Brother SRM wrote:
Loyalist Marines get LD9 almost all the time anyway, since sergeants are mandatory.

While I agree that HAS been true for the past 4 years during 5th edition, I'd disagree that it's the case anymore in 6th. Between directional wound allocation/challenges/ precision shots, sergeants are much less likely to survive a game that at any time since 3rd edition. I suspect the number of marine squads running around leaderless most of the game will increase dramatically this edition.