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But that's because the Daemons roster is quite thin, and that's before you split it out into monogod lists.

They've stretched it pretty thing already - creating 'Exalted' versions of basic units, making basic unit leaders into Hero level characters, adding mortal units, and universal spawn/Furies - and it's still thin.

Voss wrote:
I don't know. Its hard to imagine obsessing that much about faction identity in a property they don't know very well.

Given the amount of people I've seen saing "But Khorne only has one LL!"... no, DoC have 5 LLs. People need to stop thinking of the DoC LLs as completely separate factions.

Who exactly was obsessing over it?

I'm guessing people just saw daemons / daemon princes and assumed they'd be for the daemon factions, as that's the way TWW has worked so far.

I did play WHFB and had totally forgotten that Festus was in WoC instead of DoC, and Azazel, he wasn't even in the last WoC book, wasn't he squatted a couple of decades ago?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Given the amount of people I've seen saing "But Khorne only has one LL!"... no, DoC have 5 LLs. People need to stop thinking of the DoC LLs as completely separate factions.

CA treats them as separate factions. If you play one of them, you can't confederate the others like you would be able to if they were the same faction. I believe CA also advertised the game as having 7+1 factions, a number you only get to by assuming they're different factions. CA isn't really bound by the structures outlined in previous WHFB armies books (which sometimes left a bit to be desired anyway).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Who exactly was obsessing over it?

I'm guessing people just saw daemons / daemon princes and assumed they'd be for the daemon factions, as that's the way TWW has worked so far.

Visit the total war forums for a bit to see the obsession in action. It has been a complete gakstorm 24/7 for quite a while now. (Partly why I just laugh when people complain about negativity on dakka- visit any video game company's forums for a bit)

I did play WHFB and had totally forgotten that Festus was in WoC instead of DoC, and Azazel, he wasn't even in the last WoC book, wasn't he squatted a couple of decades ago?

He (and other chaos characters) wandered off, yeah. But they did need more LLs to add anyway, and the chaos pool isn't actually very deep, especially when it comes to specific characters dedicated to specific gods. (and two of the major undivided characters are shorn off into the Norscan faction in TW). Valkia and Vilitch were obvious picks from the WoC books, as was Festus. For Slaanesh... who else would you pick?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Given the amount of people I've seen saing "But Khorne only has one LL!"... no, DoC have 5 LLs. People need to stop thinking of the DoC LLs as completely separate factions.

CA treats them as separate factions. If you play one of them, you can't confederate the others like you would be able to if they were the same faction. I believe CA also advertised the game as having 7+1 factions, a number you only get to by assuming they're different factions. CA isn't really bound by the structures outlined in previous WHFB armies books (which sometimes left a bit to be desired anyway).

CA treats them however its convenient (as should be obvious with the way warriors, marauders, forsaken and knights were divvied up between the monogod factions). The leadup to TW3 didn't advertise 7+1 factions, they were pretty quiet about it until campaign start screens starting showing up when their streamer stable started showing the game off. That's when it became clear it was 7 base factions. But again, its a matter of convenience. Prior to 3, they stuck pretty close to armies as they were in army books (with the baffling exception of orcs with spears, and a few FW odds-and-ends here and there, plus Norsca and Vampirates).

But it largely works out better this way. Its certainly more interesting if Archaeon, Sigvald, Kholek N'kari and Azael (etc, etc) all function differently. Even Belakor and Azael as daemons make more sense with easy access to mortals, because getting into the heads of people is kind of the whole deal for both of them. N'kari could have, but that would involve unique 'chaos elf' models more than anything else, because that's where his attention lies (and that would've been a lot of work, plus the balance problems of having a lot of archers in-faction)

Voss wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Who exactly was obsessing over it?

I'm guessing people just saw daemons / daemon princes and assumed they'd be for the daemon factions, as that's the way TWW has worked so far.

Visit the total war forums for a bit to see the obsession in action. It has been a complete gakstorm 24/7 for quite a while now. (Partly why I just laugh when people complain about negativity on dakka- visit any video game company's forums for a bit)

Fair enough, I don't follow the TW forums.

For Slaanesh... who else would you pick?

Dechala - she has a very cool look

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dechala

I'd mostly forgotten about her.

I wonder if the animation rigging would be more difficult than making her look visually distinct from a D&D Marilith demon.

I would have liked Egrimm van Horstmann. I used to love that model. Seems odd he isn't there, considering it seemed like they were showing that in one of the cinematics.

I wonder if they decided against a Chaos Dragon because they already have so many races with dragons.

 Olthannon wrote:

I wonder if they decided against a Chaos Dragon because they already have so many races with dragons.

I'm confused.

Are you suggesting that there's something like a limit on the number of dragons one can have? That there is potentially such a concept as "too many dragons?"

 Overread wrote:

 Olthannon wrote:

I wonder if they decided against a Chaos Dragon because they already have so many races with dragons.

I'm confused.

Are you suggesting that there's something like a limit on the number of dragons one can have? That there is potentially such a concept as "too many dragons?"

I'm not advocating it, but my assumption from a gameplay standpoint is that this was floated. Chaos dragons are cool as hell, especially Galrauch. Van Horstmann is an absolute baller, also aboard a chaos dragon. So why are they not included? My assumption, CA are weak willed and have indeed created the concept of too many dragons.

I might be wrong, but with the way they do cinematics, the model needs to be somewhere in the game engine. So... future release?

Or they are coming with DLC like Zombie Dragons other than mounts.

Voss wrote:
I might be wrong, but with the way they do cinematics, the model needs to be somewhere in the game engine. So... future release?

I believe most are in-game-engine based. So if its in there then chances are they will have one appear in the future. As you say it could well be a future release such as DLC or free and such.

Vilitch!

Now that was a very cool cinematic. I've basically not touched TWW3 since when it came out but I am looking forward to this.

Out of the three so far, he's the one I like the most. Love the complete no-sell on the spear hit.

Of course, next week is Khorne, so that could change very quickly...

I think Valkia is going to blow me away. It was such an awesome mini for its time and seeing it brought to "life" is going to be pretty wild.

Not really sold on the 'twin.' (which iirc is actually Vilitch?) I think its mostly the lighting effects (particularly when its conjuring a spell in hand). But it looks like a cartoon ghost (like Casper) more than something real, made of flesh and blood and attached to the 'body' of the other.

 nels1031 wrote:
I think Valkia is going to blow me away. It was such an awesome mini for its time and seeing it brought to "life" is going to be pretty wild.

Agreed

None of the three so far revealed ever really interested me in the lore compared to others - Dechalla for Slaanesh, Tamakhan for Nurgle, Engrimm for Tzeentch. Oh well really just waiting for Neferata and her ladies

Voss wrote:
Not really sold on the 'twin.' (which iirc is actually Vilitch?) I think its mostly the lighting effects (particularly when its conjuring a spell in hand). But it looks like a cartoon ghost (like Casper) more than something real, made of flesh and blood and attached to the 'body' of the other.

This was after my time so I had to look it up. The manky worm is Vilitch and he makes a pact with Tzeentch because he's a weak bicth. And his brother the big lad becomes an mindless slave.

In the End Times the brother makes a pact with Tzeentch and the roles reverse and Vilitch is the one that becomes the mindless one.

So I wonder if there's perhaps two talent trees based on which one is in charge?

Unlikely. CA has largely avoided everything End Times.
Even some of the better model releases that would've fleshed out a faction.

So, CA's VIlitch 'let's play' (shorter than the first two lords)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9T8Dp5PxaQ

Most interesting thing is probably the generic chaos lord... on Chaos Dragon. (at about 2:00 in the video). And then loses it, of course, on ascending to a daemon prince (which gets to keep magical items, and doesn't get the customizable gifts of the Kevin the Daemon Prince. Expected but... mixed feelings there)

Stats for the DP are at 3:18. Armor's real bad, rest is ok. Skill tree is much more like a traditional lord, rather than the wretched thing Kevin got for his unique faction. Mix of Metal and Tzeentch spells (capping off with infernal gateway and transmutation of lead)

Interesting video, but its more informative about generic lords than Vilitch himself.

The items you get are generally more useful than the various mutations and whatnot Daniel can get, especially the higher level ones.

And yeah, losing the mount is kind of sad, but inevitable.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The items you get are generally more useful than the various mutations and whatnot Daniel can get, especially the higher level ones.

Oh, definitely. The daemon prince and gifts was/is kind of a mess. I liked it much more in theory than in implementation- it felt at least somewhat thematic, if imperfect. But in terms of game mechanics, it was garbage.

Similarly, I have the feeling that, statwise, you're better off keeping Chaos Lords and turning down daemonhood. And that's a little sad.

I was actually poking at a Nkari campaign a couple weeks ago (hoping to finish it before IE, because I think Nkari's start is pure hell, in the midst of a personal Ordertide. Unsurprisingly lost interest past the midgame. Its just too much un-fun cruft, despite having both Mao Yin and Katarin as vassals, which may actually make it impossible to win, unless the special Slaanesh vassalage can be broken. Also both Greasus and Kugath are hiding somewhere on the map with zero settlements, and I can't be asked to track them down), and for his quest battle, the pile of elven archers and particularly the sisters just shredded everything they touched, and the current Slaanesh roster has the same low armor problem. So going daemon prince with a generic lord may end up just being a loss.

Might come down to the fact that Daemon Princes are very slow in the air, and the AI targets them with everything like the world depends on it, and they haven't the defences to stand up to that kind of incoming firepower.

They have very little armour (something items can mitigate somewhat, but something Daniel can't! ) and whilst barrier certainly helps, that's a Tzeentch only thing.

man I cant wait till the 23rd

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That being said, what has been the most interesting article you've read regarding Immortal Empires and what would you like to hear more from?

Seems like a good deal. Unfortunately I own all of the tings

"She leaves nothing but death in her wake..." Is the headline in the new Total War teaser e-mail.

Who could it possibly be!??!?!

 nels1031 wrote:
"She leaves nothing but death in her wake..." Is the headline in the new Total War teaser e-mail.

Who could it possibly be!??!?!

Obviously they're doing a Dark Elf overhaul, and starting with Hellebron.

Fay Enchantress is getting a glow up!