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Nope, but with the warlord trait and relic, a jump pack night lord warlord is pretty scary in close combat.

Based on the rumors that renegades can advance and charge, what are peoples opinions on chaos renegade biker armies ?

Renegade anything sounds amazing. Genestealers are terrifying in large part because of that perk.


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Flamer and Melta bikes and Raptors would be fantastic under that trait.

Quick question: Which is better, a Soul Grinder or Defiler in a primarily CSM army?

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Quick question: Which is better, a Soul Grinder or Defiler in a primarily CSM army?

The correct answer is neither, they're both pretty bad models. Though if I had to pick one I'd say the Defiler since only it can benefit from Chaos Lord reroll auras and such.

 Rydria wrote:
Based on the rumors that renegades can advance and charge, what are peoples opinions on chaos renegade biker armies ?

If I had a biker army I'd rather go for Black Legion or Iron Warriors Tactics, no? If you advance your Bikes you lose 6 shots, or 4 per bike and can only shoot your flamer/melter... Bikes are very good shooting platforms this edition, rather useless in CC though.
I guess you'll get the most out of advance+charge with pure CC units, like Helbrute(scourge/fist+flamer), possessed, spawn, mutilator, warp talons.


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Arachnofiend wrote:

 TheNewBlood wrote:
Quick question: Which is better, a Soul Grinder or Defiler in a primarily CSM army?

The correct answer is neither, they're both pretty bad models. Though if I had to pick one I'd say the Defiler since only it can benefit from Chaos Lord reroll auras and such.

The plague hulk is pretty nice, very survivable due to disgustingly resilient and with its vomit you can do some damage. I had it survive a game vs. Dark Eldar where the rest of my army was slaughtered in 2 turns .

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nope, but with the warlord trait and relic, a jump pack night lord warlord is pretty scary in close combat.

My Night Lords have been such a joy to play. And now this? Oh man oh man oh man oh man...

 Jancoran wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nope, but with the warlord trait and relic, a jump pack night lord warlord is pretty scary in close combat.

My Night Lords have been such a joy to play. And now this? Oh man oh man oh man oh man...

Quite happy for you actually Jancoran. You've been making the most of them this whole time so it's great to see such a nice treatment for the Nostromans.

 Jancoran wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nope, but with the warlord trait and relic, a jump pack night lord warlord is pretty scary in close combat.

My Night Lords have been such a joy to play. And now this? Oh man oh man oh man oh man...

Whats a good starting guide for units to use in a Night Lords army?

Gibs55 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nope, but with the warlord trait and relic, a jump pack night lord warlord is pretty scary in close combat.

My Night Lords have been such a joy to play. And now this? Oh man oh man oh man oh man...

Whats a good starting guide for units to use in a Night Lords army?

For fluff purposes? Warp Talons and Raptors all day long, ideally buffed with jump pack lords and sorcerors to give you warptime and re-rolls in close combat.

Generally, Warp Talons are lethal - yesterday they tore apart a dreadnought in close combat. Between the re-roll to wounds and giving them a bonus to hit from prescience, they are incredible - and if you can get them to charge on the same turn they deep strike, all the better, because your opponent can't do owt about it! They get even better in a few weeks when they get that penalty to enemy leadership!

One word of warning though, they are very expensive and I wouldn't rely on them to wreck vehicles too much.

For your regular CSM, I'd suggest lots of Rhinos, because the Havoc Launchers are tremendous and you want to be up in the other person's face as quickly as you can to make the most of the leadership penalty.

Trying to think of fantastic ways to use the 2x EC stratagem.

The best I've come up with is deepstriking 5 termies with Combi plasmas (heavy weapon optional) for a freakish amount of plasma shots.

Daemon prince w prescience, 6 bikers with 2 plasma and Combi?

Havocs don't seem good because if your opponent has first turn they will die.

That's all I've come up with so far. The other problem is trying to fit in enough cp to use it for the first three turns and have enough for a few rerolls...

For Night Lords a Rhino with two squad (2 possessed ? Berzerk ? Characters ?) should be pretty nasty.
And we have let to see those "general" relics, maybe their is one with Ld debuff.

The correct answer is neither, they're both pretty bad models.

Hope they will buff that Defiler.. The none-Infantry/Biker/Hellbrute entry in the codex were pretty meh.. They are going to be worth when Legion rules come out.

Trying to think of fantastic ways to use the 2x EC stratagem.

The best I've come up with is deepstriking 5 termies with Combi plasmas (heavy weapon optional) for a freakish amount of plasma shots.

Daemon prince w prescience, 6 bikers with 2 plasma and Combi?

Havocs don't seem good because if your opponent has first turn they will die.

Depend on how much you want to spend. Beside Havok, Bikers, Noise Marine, Termi & Raptors are our best Infantry/biker source of dakka. So you can be cheap with a 5 man raptor with 3 plasma/melta/flamers + 2 bolt pistol). Or going on a more expansive cheese adding a Prescience sorcerer, or
- 10 man bike squad (3 plasma/melta/flammers + 20 bolters)
- 5 Termi (5 plasma/Melta/flammers)
- 10 NM (8 Sonicblaster wich make 24 "bolter" shot + 2 blastmaster). But they will never come in range at full force.

I'll try first with 5 man Raptoricide full plasma (maybee on supercharge on second shot for the lolz), see what it can do.

Gibs55 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Nope, but with the warlord trait and relic, a jump pack night lord warlord is pretty scary in close combat.

My Night Lords have been such a joy to play. And now this? Oh man oh man oh man oh man...

Whats a good starting guide for units to use in a Night Lords army?

Well, Raptors are pretty much THE obvious choice to start Night Lords. That would be my take on it. I personally have always had three units of them and would probably say that no less than 2 is a good idea. I have always used larger squads of them, so that's 20 Raptors. There can be some real debate on the Warp Talons. They weren't good on their own and they required a VERY specific "play" in order to use in 7E. I think more people will like them now. So if you were wanting to do it, a unit of them would not be a wasted effort.

I haven't seen all the new rules obviously in the Codex but I have just played them a couple of times and the victories were convincing even without the Codex. I have played them a lot so it may take you a second to learn how best to use stuff at first. Raptors have been maligned for long enough that a lot of people have just never really used them. But to answer your questions: Raptors for sure.

Hope Warp Talons get +1 attack. As they are right now for just two attacks each its rough to justify taking them.

Debilitate wrote:
Trying to think of fantastic ways to use the 2x EC stratagem.

The best I've come up with is deepstriking 5 termies with Combi plasmas (heavy weapon optional) for a freakish amount of plasma shots.

Daemon prince w prescience, 6 bikers with 2 plasma and Combi?

Havocs don't seem good because if your opponent has first turn they will die.

That's all I've come up with so far. The other problem is trying to fit in enough cp to use it for the first three turns and have enough for a few rerolls...

Have been thinking about the same. My theoretical EC tactic would be to pack 2x 10 man Noise Marine squads with IoE or IoV in a Kharbdis Assault Claw and land them about 20 inches from a target. The 2x stratagem would work well in this case because they would be immune to any first turn shenanigans and the legion trait would make any subsequent charges easier to deal with.

Trouble with this idea is that's a lot of models in the open once my turn ends. To be effective, they would also need combi-plasma Terminators or Raptors to arrive.

That said, I have not figured out how to maximize command points around an army like this and keep it battle forged. I keep thinking about how to try to fit it into a Brigade detachment but not coming up with a good way to fill out all the slots. I think I would take 3 Rapier batteries for heavy support, but have no clue what to do about fast attack. Spawn would be the obvious choice, for the points, but I really don't like them or bikers in this army. For that matter, elites are expensive, and you have to take 3 - a Terminator squad plus 2 squads of possessed is what I am currently thinking.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/03/legion-focus-world-eaters-aug-3gw-homepage-post-2/

The khorne relic isn't a weapon?

Look solid, if simplistic. Hit them again , and again, and again.

Khorne Relic is the Brass Collar of Bhorgaster and their stratagem is Scorn of Sorcery: let's you deny a power. I hope the Brass Collar is an aoe around the wearer and not "this unit cannot be targeted by spells" or something.

I didn't think I'd be this happy about an extra attack but I am. This and the point reduction for power fists will make our other units very strong.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Khorne Relic is the Brass Collar of Bhorgaster and their stratagem is Scorn of Sorcery: let's you deny a power. I hope the Brass Collar is an aoe around the wearer and not "this unit cannot be targeted by spells" or something.

I didn't think I'd be this happy about an extra attack but I am. This and the point reduction for power fists will make our other units very strong.

Honestly, not really happy about the brass collar: I wanted a god damn Axe! ;_;

The rest of it seems pretty good, even if the strategem is a bit costly at 3CP.

Collar allows the bearer to deny like a psyker. If successful causes perils on the caster.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Khorne Relic is the Brass Collar of Bhorgaster and their stratagem is Scorn of Sorcery: let's you deny a power. I hope the Brass Collar is an aoe around the wearer and not "this unit cannot be targeted by spells" or something.

I didn't think I'd be this happy about an extra attack but I am. This and the point reduction for power fists will make our other units very strong.

Honestly, not really happy about the brass collar: I wanted a god damn Axe! ;_;

The rest of it seems pretty good, even if the strategem is a bit costly at 3CP.

Remember that the stratagem they showed off isn't a World Eaters one, it's a general Chaos one. Ours is 1CP to deny a power. Honestly, we don't need to fight a second or third time, we completely wreck everything we touch the first time.


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Captyn_Bob wrote:
Collar allows the bearer to deny like a psyker. If successful causes perils on the caster.

please be right please be right please be right please be right

Is deny the witch innately a bubble around the denying psyker? Because if it's not there's nothing in that artifact write-up that says it requires range, it's table-wide without some kind of built in range for deny the witch. That'd be a bit OP I think, guaranteed perils every turn on one psyker on the table is too strong. I'd like the artifact to be gated by range (not that it'd matter much once you launch your warlord in your enemies face turn 1).

Demantiae wrote:
Is deny the witch innately a bubble around the denying psyker? Because if it's not there's nothing in that artifact write-up that says it requires range, it's table-wide without some kind of built in range for deny the witch. That'd be a bit OP I think, guaranteed perils every turn on one psyker on the table is too strong. I'd like the artifact to be gated by range (not that it'd matter much once you launch your warlord in your enemies face turn 1).

FAQ said that all of the DtW non-psyker abilities have a range of 24" unless stated otherwise.

Zhufor + Brass Collar Dark Apostle + Flesh Hounds + Scion of Sorcery = WE WILL BUILD A WALL AND MAKE PSYCKERS PAY FOR IT

Azog wrote:

It's ok but where's the big F-off axe?

Remember there are going to be the generic relics that everyone can take.

You know there is gonna be a big fething axe in there.

Also we might get some god restricted relics in addition to legion restricted relics.

I'd be OK without a big axe as long as I can get my Burning Brand back. Think about how powerful that gak will be in 8th.

Why do you need a fancy axe?
All you do with an axe is chop people, then it gets dirty and dented, then you need a new axe.

Keeping simple axes lets you rotate through them without spending too much resources, plus you can afford to use them as makeshift projectile weapons should the need arise!

If you want to gather more skulls for the skull throne, you gotta be economical about it.

But the Blood God also demands Blood. Axes keep a lot of blood.

The collar is probably the best relic we've seen so far.