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 JNAProductions wrote:
What’s the point of stalkers?

Stalkers are for marines that don't get SIA. Deathwatch marines just get all the benfits of the stalker in a different bullet choice.

Bet Cawl loved that meeting.

"So I built this long range, armor peircing variant of the bolt rifle for..."

"We don't want it"

"Why the hell not?"

"We just put better bullets in the standard rifle"

"What! There's no way that could be as effective as a rifle I've worked on for.."

*Examines Blueprints*

"...Damn. Don't let the Ultramarines see these."

Oops

Well that's all lovely and everything, but this is the Deathwatch Tactica forum. Sounds like you meant to post in the Chaos Space Marines thread

lol whoops I post in both of these regularly. Ha sorry

What's the role of taking a single Inceptor in a kill team?

 SHUPPET wrote:
What's the role of taking a single Inceptor in a kill team?

Primarily fall back and shoot.

They also have very good output for their cost. The main problem with them is survivability, which the Intercessors help with. Mostly though, its for the ability to fall back and shoot.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
What's the role of taking a single Inceptor in a kill team?

Primarily fall back and shoot.

Does allow the entire squad to shoot?

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
What's the role of taking a single Inceptor in a kill team?

Primarily fall back and shoot.

Does allow the entire squad to shoot?

Yes and at no penalty.

Any Danger Close teams I stick one in. 6 Heavy Bolter shot equivalents is nice on it's own, but falling back and shooting? It has been clutch for me in several games.

Speaking of I did a 2k game over the weekend. I ran 3 Kill teams: 1 with 5 Hellblasters, 1 with 5 Aggressors, and 1 with 1 aggressor and 1 Inceptor with the Intercessors all having Auto Bolt Rifles. The 5 Intercessor 5 Aggressor unit was MVP hands down. I did a second game that day at 1k and the same unit was MVP. Being able to protect the Aggressors is insane, and I just moved them up turn 1 both games, and then sat in the middle of the board. I am honestly not very impressed with the 5 Intercessor 5 Hellblaster teams. I prefer just DSing 10 Hellblasters. Hell, even just 5 since most of the games they didn't get in rapid fire range because of the missions. So far DS seems to be the best way to run Hellblasters, and I'll keep my Kill Teams for Aggressors and Inceptors.

So Intercessor Hellblaster teams are that much better than solo Hellblaster teams?

Yes and no. 5 intercessors and 5 hellblasters cost 270pts. 10 hellblasters cost 70pts more for double the plasma.

Both are good, but I've been using pure hellblaster squads to good effect recently. Deepstrike and native reroll 1s to wound really make the unit a different beast. Both are great options.

I'm finding I like the mixed hellblaster squads because they can touch things turn 1 and deepstriking aggressors (backed by some DA plasma inceptors).

Problem is this list get destroyed by anyone running dark reapers, blasters or the knight Gatling cannon (- ap 2d weapons) and I'm not sure how to deal with that yet.

 Captain Garius wrote:

Speaking of I did a 2k game over the weekend. I ran 3 Kill teams: 1 with 5 Hellblasters, 1 with 5 Aggressors, and 1 with 1 aggressor and 1 Inceptor with the Intercessors all having Auto Bolt Rifles. The 5 Intercessor 5 Aggressor unit was MVP hands down. I did a second game that day at 1k and the same unit was MVP. Being able to protect the Aggressors is insane, and I just moved them up turn 1 both games, and then sat in the middle of the board. I am honestly not very impressed with the 5 Intercessor 5 Hellblaster teams. I prefer just DSing 10 Hellblasters. Hell, even just 5 since most of the games they didn't get in rapid fire range because of the missions. So far DS seems to be the best way to run Hellblasters, and I'll keep my Kill Teams for Aggressors and Inceptors.

I think hellblasters in tercessor teams are almost better off with assault guns and an aggressor so they can run and gun.

deep striking rapid fire hellblasters is legit though

So I'm contemplating on running a DW battalion alongside my AM detachment. My Troop choices are basically three squads with 5 intercessors, 3-4 hellblasters, and an inceptor per squad. Does this sound like a reasonable loadout?

I'm curious about the HQ choices though. A Watch Master seems a great choice for all them rerolls but I'd like to keep the detachment fully Primaris. I guess I could proxy a Primaris Captain as a watch master though? What about a Librarian? I am not sold on SM spells but I guess that deny roll would be nice? What spells would you recommend?

For HQ's I run a Watch Master, Jump Librarian. If I run the second battalion I throw in a Jump Watch Captain with TH/SS and another Librarian.

Null Zone is amazing even though it is less than reliable. Might of Heroes and the one that lets you reroll charges/always fight first is pretty good as well. Plus denying and smite are always welcome.

For fully primaris, you have watch captain, librarian or chaplain.

You could always convert a watch master, but at that point, you can convert jump pack primaris, terminator primaris etc.

 Weazel wrote:
So I'm contemplating on running a DW battalion alongside my AM detachment. My Troop choices are basically three squads with 5 intercessors, 3-4 hellblasters, and an inceptor per squad. Does this sound like a reasonable loadout?

I'm curious about the HQ choices though. A Watch Master seems a great choice for all them rerolls but I'd like to keep the detachment fully Primaris. I guess I could proxy a Primaris Captain as a watch master though? What about a Librarian? I am not sold on SM spells but I guess that deny roll would be nice? What spells would you recommend?

I'm a primaris player first and foremost, but some HQs are better as Primaris and some are better as 'babymarines':

Librarian: No invul and attracts fire like hell. The oldmarine version can at least take a decent weapon and is short enough to hide behind your intercessors.

Watch Captain: You want the extra wound and fancy rifle, so go Primaris with either of the bolt rifles. I personally use the Auto Bolt Rifle with Bane Bolts of Erixia.

Watch Master: You are paying an extra 40pts to reroll 2s (over the captain that lets you reroll 1s). Not worth it unless you bring a lot of deathwatch.

Chaplain Dreadnought: Probably one the best models in the game, but good luck finding one as forgeworld stopped making them. Kitbashes seem to be accept as long as you copy the giant wings.

Chaplain: Primaris is the better option, but you aren't running enough space marine melee to want him

My personal advice is either the Primaris Watch Captain or the OldMarine watch captain with shield and jump pack. The Primaris will sit next to your hellblasters and shoot, while the Oldmarine would jump into battle against something big that need slaying.

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
So I'm contemplating on running a DW battalion alongside my AM detachment. My Troop choices are basically three squads with 5 intercessors, 3-4 hellblasters, and an inceptor per squad. Does this sound like a reasonable loadout?

Watch Master: You are paying an extra 40pts to reroll 2s (over the captain that lets you reroll 1s). Not worth it unless you bring a lot of deathwatch.

Chaplain Dreadnought: Probably one the best models in the game, but good luck finding one as forgeworld stopped making them. Kitbashes seem to be accept as long as you copy the giant wings.

Chaplain: Primaris is the better option, but you aren't running enough space marine melee to want him

My personal advice is either the Primaris Watch Captain or the OldMarine watch captain with shield and jump pack. The Primaris will sit next to your hellblasters and shoot, while the Oldmarine would jump into battle against something big that need slaying.

Highly disagree about watch master, it improves your damage output by 16% for 28 points, so if you have more than 150 points of shooting he’s worth it, aswell as improving overwatch by 83 %, the only argument against is the lack of jump pack

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
So I'm contemplating on running a DW battalion alongside my AM detachment. My Troop choices are basically three squads with 5 intercessors, 3-4 hellblasters, and an inceptor per squad. Does this sound like a reasonable loadout?

I'm curious about the HQ choices though. A Watch Master seems a great choice for all them rerolls but I'd like to keep the detachment fully Primaris. I guess I could proxy a Primaris Captain as a watch master though? What about a Librarian? I am not sold on SM spells but I guess that deny roll would be nice? What spells would you recommend?

I'm a primaris player first and foremost, but some HQs are better as Primaris and some are better as 'babymarines':

Librarian: No invul and attracts fire like hell. The oldmarine version can at least take a decent weapon and is short enough to hide behind your intercessors.

Watch Captain: You want the extra wound and fancy rifle, so go Primaris with either of the bolt rifles. I personally use the Auto Bolt Rifle with Bane Bolts of Erixia.

Watch Master: You are paying an extra 40pts to reroll 2s (over the captain that lets you reroll 1s). Not worth it unless you bring a lot of deathwatch.

Chaplain Dreadnought: Probably one the best models in the game, but good luck finding one as forgeworld stopped making them. Kitbashes seem to be accept as long as you copy the giant wings.

Chaplain: Primaris is the better option, but you aren't running enough space marine melee to want him

My personal advice is either the Primaris Watch Captain or the OldMarine watch captain with shield and jump pack. The Primaris will sit next to your hellblasters and shoot, while the Oldmarine would jump into battle against something big that need slaying.

The Bane Bolts are terrible in any weapon that's not a Storm Bolter and Guardian Spear, and you forgot the other things for the Watch Master you're paying for like the Spear, 2+ save, and cheaper access to Adaptive Tactics.

Watch Master is an auto include for me. The full-rerolls is an amazing effect as well as access to the clavis, relic and stratagem to really hurt vehicle by both the -1 to hit and also the mortal wound output. Stack on top of that the anti-vehicle special ammo and homeboy can dish out a very reliable 3d3 mortal wounds to vehicles. He is a massive boon as well for hellblasters firing at a -1 because he can salvage 1s and 2s both of which will kill you.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Watch Master is an auto include for me. The full-rerolls is an amazing effect as well as access to the clavis, relic and stratagem to really hurt vehicle by both the -1 to hit and also the mortal wound output. Stack on top of that the anti-vehicle special ammo and homeboy can dish out a very reliable 3d3 mortal wounds to vehicles. He is a massive boon as well for hellblasters firing at a -1 because he can salvage 1s and 2s both of which will kill you.

This. I regularly give him the castellan of the black vault trait and the time of ectoclades. Castellan makes his spear awesome at shooting and cc. I teleport him with a SB/SS vet squad with 4 frag cannons and kill what needs killing.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 ChargerIIC wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
So I'm contemplating on running a DW battalion alongside my AM detachment. My Troop choices are basically three squads with 5 intercessors, 3-4 hellblasters, and an inceptor per squad. Does this sound like a reasonable loadout?

I'm curious about the HQ choices though. A Watch Master seems a great choice for all them rerolls but I'd like to keep the detachment fully Primaris. I guess I could proxy a Primaris Captain as a watch master though? What about a Librarian? I am not sold on SM spells but I guess that deny roll would be nice? What spells would you recommend?

I'm a primaris player first and foremost, but some HQs are better as Primaris and some are better as 'babymarines':

Librarian: No invul and attracts fire like hell. The oldmarine version can at least take a decent weapon and is short enough to hide behind your intercessors.

Watch Captain: You want the extra wound and fancy rifle, so go Primaris with either of the bolt rifles. I personally use the Auto Bolt Rifle with Bane Bolts of Erixia.

Watch Master: You are paying an extra 40pts to reroll 2s (over the captain that lets you reroll 1s). Not worth it unless you bring a lot of deathwatch.

Chaplain Dreadnought: Probably one the best models in the game, but good luck finding one as forgeworld stopped making them. Kitbashes seem to be accept as long as you copy the giant wings.

Chaplain: Primaris is the better option, but you aren't running enough space marine melee to want him

My personal advice is either the Primaris Watch Captain or the OldMarine watch captain with shield and jump pack. The Primaris will sit next to your hellblasters and shoot, while the Oldmarine would jump into battle against something big that need slaying.

The Bane Bolts are terrible in any weapon that's not a Storm Bolter and Guardian Spear, and you forgot the other things for the Watch Master you're paying for like the Spear, 2+ save, and cheaper access to Adaptive Tactics.

If the Watch Captain is sitting next to the hellblasters than the only time those close combat stuff is going to matter is when you are losing badly. Unless you dedicate the jump captain for the re-rolls of 1 - but why would you?

The Watchmaster is also going to help those Hellblasters more the moment you run into a negative modifier.

Thanks for the input to all, appreciated.

Primaris captain has a bolt weapon and a power weapon, same as a Watch Master. Our group would probably allow a proxy. I really don't want to mix in any minimarines. But good to know that a captain is a reasonable choice as well.

In the list I'm thinking about I'm going to have 14 cp to start with. I don't know anything about DW stratagems yet but at that starting level would you go AM cp battery as a warlord or make the captain/watchmaster your warlord instead?

Watchmaster's effect on overwatch is golden. You're running a lot of dakka, and that means doubling your overwatch can have a big impact on the game. Watchmaster is our best HQ unit, hands down. I also quite like running him with clavis to drop 2d3 mortal wounds on vehicles in CC, alongside his decent weapon.

I will never run a Deathwatch list without a Watchmaster, unless I am playing Kill Team. Other than that though I go by two things when choosing between Primaris or Old Marine. 1) Do I need/want a Jump Pack or 2) Do I need to save points. If the answer to both is no then I go the Primaris version. My Normal list is 4 HQ's with a Watch Master, Watch Captain with Jump Pack and TH/SS, and a regular Librarian because I need the points.

 Captain Garius wrote:
I will never run a Deathwatch list without a Watchmaster, unless I am playing Kill Team. Other than that though I go by two things when choosing between Primaris or Old Marine. 1) Do I need/want a Jump Pack or 2) Do I need to save points. If the answer to both is no then I go the Primaris version. My Normal list is 4 HQ's with a Watch Master, Watch Captain with Jump Pack and TH/SS, and a regular Librarian because I need the points.

Yep, Watchmaster is ace.

TH/SB jump pack captain is awesome, as well.

And even though it's such a massive cost and the delivery methods are...less than ideal, I absolutely love the combi-melta/meltafist Terminator Captain. I can't get enough of that guy. Not the most competitive, but man if melta ever regains its lethality for its cost...

Honestly, other than Artemis being way too expensive for what he brings and Chaplains of all shapes and sizes being pretty terrible, I think every other HQ option available to Deathwatch is pretty great.

I have a Cataphractii Captain with Chainfist Combi-melta that I want to cut the chain part off and convert to a melta-fist to try him out. Whenever I build my lists I am usually either like 10 points over, or else I have like 30-40 points to spare. So I end up having to rework a bunch of stuff to get things right.

I have a feeling that DW are going to be a strong army post-FAQ. It's quite likely that the Castallan is going to be nerfed, and so with it IKs, who are a bit of a problem for us atm.

Orks are going to rise, and there's no better target for our SIA than greenskins (okay, Daemon Princes, but you know what I mean). We're one of the only armies that can turn hordes into red paste.

What do you think, fellow watchmasters? How far are DW from being a top-table army?