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@Ozy & Shum : They get cover saves (either 3/4+) so the entire squad could be wiped, or broken. but generally, just a fair few.

@ Squig: Farseer [mindwar] with the banshees, surely. Seerconcil can function roaming on their own fine? But ya, good call.

@ Traskel: Mindwar uses the models LD. This would be the number list under its LD heading.

@White dragon: If you sit a squad of banshees in cover, with a mindwar farseer - they shoot you and you shoot them (with mindwar, killing a nob a turn) 4+ cover/armour save can weather str 5 x lots long enough. If the squad gets charged you force dangerous terrain tests and the (remaining) banshees will attack back at full effectiveness.

Two farseer type squads can happily split between each bike squad (the idea is to gut the painboy then PK nobs) while all your ranged shoots lots. 4+ cover sv is standard. Yes the farseer squads will die if charged.

I guess its the one time eldar should really stand still....

Tau's defense against Nob bikers is to pin the bastards....Enough marker light hits from pathfinders combined with pulse carbines from a sacrificial unit of drones or firewarriors would work. "Here take your pin test at a -5!" LOL. I'd just do that for a while and then use the rest of my stuff to deal with the other elements in their army.

Capt K

Moz wrote:They would get cover, so it's not like an 'Answer' or anything. But multiple S10 hits is never a bad idea.

My marine force fields a master, shrike, 6 tac squads with missile launchers a full termy squad with 2 cyclones, and 3 anti infantry preds with hunter killers. In the first turn I'm able to lay out 13 krak missiles and a space laser (plus whatever else the predators might try to do). Statistically if I do it in the right order I should be able to kill five or six bikers in the first turn If I'm able to bring it all to bare. My typical deployment against heavy hitter like nob bikes (in theory I've never faced the list before) or dark angels involves combat squadding everything and denying multiple assaults by spacing the front three 5 man squads evenly across the entire front flank of my army. This way the max fast bikes/landraiders/whatever can possibly kill is 15 basic tac marines. After which my gunline lays into them. I can outshoot 2 nob bike squads pretty handily simply by the virtue of being a firing line, so I'm not too worried about that. What do you think a well deployed somewhat spammy marine list would be capable of doing against nob bikers?

I've never faced the army so I can't really venture a guess. The army also features a few flamers and meltaguns, and depending on points some dreads.

Well... at 1500 I cram a lot of high ST Low AP guns in.

If I get top of turn. I could take out almost an entire squad. If I go second it would be harder, but I do have enough S8.... and enough marker lights to negate those cover saves.
You have underestimated the dakka of my tau.

On the note of S8 and AP1.... what dose this army do when a SOB army set up on the other side of the table with 3 of those blasted pipe organs???
Or, when charged, use an act of faith to make your 3+ save an invul.

Man... I like the sound of this sisters army I am working on right now

Do you have enough markerlights to get past thier 3+/4+ cover save in the first place.. or do they just need to hit to set up a counter?

@Shuma = lol pew. Although the Hunterkillers add alot of pew, one shot. But 3 bikers/squad = a morale check 1st turn, woo!

well, yes. the lights do need to hit first....

but alls i need is 4 marker hits and a very large chunk of one biker squad is tost..... and when they get close, they will be in range of even more of my S8.... and there will be even MORE tost

ShumaGorath wrote:

Moz wrote:They would get cover, so it's not like an 'Answer' or anything. But multiple S10 hits is never a bad idea.

My marine force fields a master, shrike, 6 tac squads with missile launchers a full termy squad with 2 cyclones, and 3 anti infantry preds with hunter killers. In the first turn I'm able to lay out 13 krak missiles and a space laser (plus whatever else the predators might try to do). Statistically if I do it in the right order I should be able to kill five or six bikers in the first turn If I'm able to bring it all to bare. My typical deployment against heavy hitter like nob bikes (in theory I've never faced the list before) or dark angels involves combat squadding everything and denying multiple assaults by spacing the front three 5 man squads evenly across the entire front flank of my army. This way the max fast bikes/landraiders/whatever can possibly kill is 15 basic tac marines. After which my gunline lays into them. I can outshoot 2 nob bike squads pretty handily simply by the virtue of being a firing line, so I'm not too worried about that. What do you think a well deployed somewhat spammy marine list would be capable of doing against nob bikers?

I've never faced the army so I can't really venture a guess. The army also features a few flamers and meltaguns, and depending on points some dreads.

Congratulations, you won first turn. I'm a nob biker player, and I hold everything in reserve. Now what do you do? When the bikes arrive, they boost 24" to get the 3+ cover. Now all your S8+ weaponry is near-useless.

Envy89 wrote:Well... at 1500 I cram a lot of high ST Low AP guns in.

If I get top of turn. I could take out almost an entire squad. If I go second it would be harder, but I do have enough S8.... and enough marker lights to negate those cover saves.
You have underestimated the dakka of my tau.

On the note of S8 and AP1.... what dose this army do when a SOB army set up on the other side of the table with 3 of those blasted pipe organs???
Or, when charged, use an act of faith to make your 3+ save an invul.

Man... I like the sound of this sisters army I am working on right now

With all due respect - how do you get enough S8+ weaponry? 9 Broadsides? Everything else has way-too short of range to be workable.

Actuallly, that's not a bad counter. 9 broadsides plus markerlight support, with fire warriors to screen the broadsides from getting easily assaulted.

By the way, the exorcists are much less useful against a 3+ cover save from turbo-boosting, or even the 4+ save from regular cover. And the 3+ inv. is next to impossible to get in a useful situation.

Congratulations, you won first turn. I'm a nob biker player, and I hold everything in reserve. Now what do you do? When the bikes arrive, they boost 24" to get the 3+ cover. Now all your S8+ weaponry is near-useless.

Actually i was counting a 4+ cover save for it all in my mathemagic so I'm still killing a few. And regardless of whatever first turn shenanigans I manage I think the denied multiple effective assaults was the linchpin of my defense. Killing 5 bikers isn't all that big considering its taking my entire army. Its the attrition factor of the multiple sacrificial squads that was pulling the main weight of my defense. And thats something that setting up in reserves isn't really helping you too much with.

In that situation I would likely hold back the hunter killers until the second or third turn following your first set of assaults. I honestly don't know how well I would be able to deal with it all, after burning through my 6 sacrificial empty squads my army would be left pretty bare. I can only really afford to throw out 2 turns of sacrifices before i have to start throwing krak missiles into the grinder of mellee. Its all in how dearly I can sell their lives during that time.

Presumably I could empty out a full squad of the bikers in my initial shooting and after the first line of sacrifices. I would probably have to assault the remaining few with some terminators to finish them off (unless bolters somehow managed to pull off a miracle). The second squad would be the real question, as they would probably kill off that terminator squad in assault after.

You all better watch out, I'm taking Deathwing to Adepticon!
Ozymandias, King of Kings

I think Deathwing can give nob bikers a run for the money. LotS of power fists/thunder hammers and venerable dreadnaughts.

I think the best way to beat down this list is to take it to them in close combat. If you can do this you have effectively stole their thunder and your opponent will not be expecting it. Nob biker players are very confident in their close combat prowess plus it is the only way they can win In both objective based missions and kill points. You have to field a list that is even better In assault... A list you can look your opponent In the eye and smile back.

G

Ozymandias wrote:You all better watch out, I'm taking Deathwing to Adepticon!
Ozymandias, King of Kings

No you're not....you're taking traitor guard!

I'm taking Traitor Guard for Dakka Detachment 2 with you guys. I'm taking Deathwing for the 40k Championships on Sunday (unless I can't get them painted in time in which case I'm taking Dark Eldar...).

Ozymandias, King of Kings

I have played two games against lists with 2xNob Bikers. The first was a 2000 pt game vs shooty SM list filled with meltas and lascannons. With a first turn turbo boost, even a SM list filled with S8+ couldn't kill enough in their one turn before they were in my lines destroying the rest of my army. I think some people are very over-optimistic about the chances of stopping this army via shooting.

My second game was a 2500 pt Demon (with no MCs) vs Nob Bikers in Dawn of War (I had first turn, ugh) and Kill Points (even more ugh) two nights ago. The Ork player's entire army had 9 KP, while mine was almost twice that. I ending up losing the game by a few KPs (I would have won any of the objective-based missions, since he hid a squad of mega-nobz in an immobilized BW), but I did manage to destroy both Nob squads. The technique:

1a. be very lucky with turn 2 reserve rolls (I made almost every one).
1b. have nothing but inv saves negating somewhat the pain of the PKs.
2. give em a few wounds via shooting. A squad of 3 flamers can put down a lot of wounds (we weren't sure if Nobs still get FNP from these).
3. hold-up the bikes with something the can survive one turn shooting+combat and not run away. In one case, it was two large squads of horrors + Tz herald in chariot, in the second it was a large squad (5) of crushers + daemonettes (16 of them). The high init rending and PWs help, and those wounds should be put on the boss.
4. counter-charge in both cases with large (15) squad of letters and chariot herald of Khorne. That is, attack with an insane number of high init power weapons (bypassing FNP) and have lots of bodies to absorb the wounds back.
5. Once the boss is dead, the bike squad will usually break at around 4 or 5 bodies.

With all due respect - how do you get enough S8+ weaponry? 9 Broadsides? Everything else has way-too short of range to be workable.

Actuallly, that's not a bad counter. 9 broadsides plus markerlight support, with fire warriors to screen the broadsides from getting easily assaulted.

I agree with C99. Or you can just attempt to pin them. A 9 broadside army really isn't that feasible vs. other armies either.

Capt K

Bikers that have turb boosted Cannot be pinned.

I did mention this in another thread, placing your objective in a tall building will prevent bikers getting up.

I have yet to battle against this list.. but very interested to try. Between a friend of mine is making a similar list to the biker nob list and me sending my CSM into a local tournament I wanted to be prepared for the biker nobs.

How do you feel about
Abby, 4termies, MoK, all Pfists, 2 combi meltas (champ and normal), charging out a landraider vs a 10 man squad? This is all I could really afford without gimping my list vs all comers.

Mausama

storm knight wrote:Bikers that have turb boosted Cannot be pinned.

I did mention this in another thread, placing your objective in a tall building will prevent bikers getting up.

That's why Moz suggested "contestin' poles"!!!!

smart.

G

I'm thinking a large unit of GKT might stand a chance. With most of the Nobs using a Power claw the grey knights have a decent weapons skill and would be going first with power weapons so no FNP rolls.

Throw in a Grand Master to use the codex force weapon rules might help as well.

Only problem is keeping the Grey Knights alive long enough with all the twin linked dakka gun shots flying around before the charge.

With more of these lists popping up I might have to playtest this idea.

C99 has already done the math for GKT... does not work.

G

STR 6 doesn't instakill the nob so he spreads the wounds around. Result, even if you roll well you kill a couple of nobs and he brings the pain on a very expensive unit. You'd have to bring ALOT of thunderhammer/storm shields and somehow get the charge (which means a raider). Looking at what you're advocating it'll cost.... 770 points (from memory) for a GK master w/incinerator, 7 terminators, 1 incinerator, and the LRC you'll need to deliver them. That costs as much as his squad. It would basically be MAD (mutually assured destruction. You'd probably kill his warboss, and wipe out the squad, but suffer horrendous casualties yourself. That's IF you got the charge and IF 6 of your terminators had TH/SS. At that point you might as well be playing regular marines. Now he's got another squad and you're out of counters unless you took Brother Captain Stern and ANOTHER massive unit of these guys.

I know that, but to do anything, they aren't going to be turbo boosting all game.

storm knight wrote:Bikers that have turb boosted Cannot be pinned.

Mausama wrote:I have yet to battle against this list.. but very interested to try. Between a friend of mine is making a similar list to the biker nob list and me sending my CSM into a local tournament I wanted to be prepared for the biker nobs.

How do you feel about
Abby, 4termies, MoK, all Pfists, 2 combi meltas (champ and normal), charging out a landraider vs a 10 man squad? This is all I could really afford without gimping my list vs all comers.

Mausama

Abby with anything does a nice job of punking the nob bikerz. As long as he's got some models there to soak wounds from the powerfists, the nob squad is probably dead. S8 power weapon at I6, with 6-10 attacks, hitting on 3s and re-rolling failed to-wounds = Win.

If he can catch em...

I mean, the Deceiver will slap down Nob Bikers as well, doesn't make him a viable counter though.

With judicious use of a Chaos Landraider, possibly a HQ with lash to lend a hand, Abby can catch them.

Capt K

Yes Abby in the pimp ride can beat them down. The point difference is huge and a BIG advantage to Chaos.

G

Honestly I don't see why he would need to catch them. put him in the middle of your lines and the bikes will come to you. Its not like they are doing anything else.

Agreed. They must charge in an objective based game.

G