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aka_mythos wrote:I'm really surprised by the volume we've heard so far. It really gives you a sense of how much will be in the codex and how much different it will be overall. Its a sad day to be a xenos.

About damn time.

It sucks being a regular unmodified human.

JohnHwangDD wrote:As for being Xenos, Orks are doing fine, and I think we'll see a good Necron Codex next year, with a good Eldar book after that.

But first, a really crappy IG codex, as always... I see no reason to expect GW to change their M.O. re: the army. The IG armylist has always been either weak, boring or both, and I'm not convinced it can be anything else within the narrow frame of reference given by the 40k universe.

Under Apoc rules, missions, and Datasheets, I find the current Guard Codex can be *very* competitive.

It's just very limited in the number of things that work. But make no mistake, those things work extremely well and can make for a somewhat dynamic game.

The problem is that stuff that doesn't work is completely unplayable. For example, if you need to grab an Objective, it is not possible to walk there, nor can you afford to burn 80+, 90+ pts on a Chimera, so you *must* take Drop Troops. Similarly, if you need to flatten stuff, you can take practically unlimited amounts of pie. Or Eversors to paper over any HtH issues.

JohnHwangDD wrote: nor can you afford to burn 80+, 90+ pts on a Chimera

QFT. I've used my Mech Guard in Apoc twice and have felt the cost of all those Chimeras.

Ive heard through the grapevine of improved lasguns
something along the lines of better strength or possibly ap, however I dont have many details or a stat line either so forgive me if it sounds like a wishlist.
Ive also heard of them being able to "go to ground" but without the restriction of no shooting based on how they are trained to fire from a crouched or laying down position in bootcamp or the 40k equivelant.
My two cents
~tony~

tonytidus916 wrote:Ive heard through the grapevine of improved lasguns
something along the lines of better strength or possibly ap, however I dont have many details or a stat line either so forgive me if it sounds like a wishlist.

Pretty sure that's a rumor that cross-pollinated from the alleged beefed up Hellguns

The lasgun is about at it's maximum power. At most it'll be R24" S3 Ap6 rapid fire.
Any more Ap, and it's a Hellgun, more power and it's an Ork Shoota. Both, a Bolter.

The Hellgun needs to be Ap3 to be really useful and not just a pretty lasgun, otherwise the pricey and hazardous Plasmagun will remain the Guards only real option.

The Hellgun is fine at S5 AP- RF, too...

I don't see how being almost as powerful as a Multi-laser is reasonable, but at least the car battery strapped to their shoulders wouldn't just be there for looks...

I think S3 Ap3 makes sence, otherwise give em Bolters or Shotguns with Manstoppers...

Right now the las gun has 1/18 chance of killing a MEq

1/2 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/3 to fail the save=1/18 (5.5%)

A Hellgun is no better, except for the BS4 stormtrooper.

2/3 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/3 to fail the save=2/27 (7.1%)

An AP3 Hellgun in the hands of a stormtrooper however

2/3 to hit, 1/3 to wound, 1/1 to fail the save=2/9 (22.2%)

Not overwhelming but certainly passable and worth taking.

I love mathhammer. That would be sweet for STs though. And damn do I want those Hydras to be true...

I hope they keep the lasgun the same, S3 ap- is the measuring stick for "normal guns" in 40k, and I get a certain amount of pride by using the "flashlight".



I *really* hope they introduce the "Platoon Drills" that have been rumored. Shooting through units in your own platoon and not giving cover saves, being able to Go to Ground and still shoot, ect... These things could make IG Platoons something besides meatshields and objective grabbers (or at least *better* meat shields and objective grabbers...).

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Right now the las gun has 1/18 chance of killing a MEq

Um, the Lasgun isn't actually supposed to kill anything, so why are you doing math on it?

Personally I have heard people always say that IG CAN be competitive but is usually not. If you make it that way many people will call you cheesy. Also, I think the majority of people will agree that IG is just a 3rd tier army. I hope that will be corrected in may. I love thier story and fluff. Just wish they didn't suck so bad.

I'm just waiting to see what the power build out of IG will be. Drop troop storms, mass tanks, exploding penal legionaires (and by that, I mean convicts who are suicide bombers).

I'm guessing that Ogryns will be ROXXOR! Relatively new minis. Have been bad for awhile. They're due for something rude. Knowing GW, it'll be something way too good. S5, T5, FNP, Eternal Warrior, rending, fleet and scout. For 18 points. And if they buy a commissar for +10 points, he comes with a power weapon and makes the unit Fearless.

Yeah, the problem is that the most competitive current build (Drop Guard spam) is nothing like what the IG is portrayed as in the Fluff.

JohnhWangDD is right. All the viable IG builds are the ones least like the imperial guard, they are exceptions to what should be a standard build. The viable IG builds are the equivalent to a land raider spaming list, one trick ponies that don't reflect on the character of the "army". I'm a little daunted by the fact I'm going to have to have 200+ guardsmen painted up, but that is what they're suppose to be.

If I had to wager, I'm thinking the new IG will have Mech Platoon and Infantry Platoon, but NO Drop Platoons.

Storms will have Drop, and Grenadiers can buy Drop.

This would help clarify roles immensely:
- Storms & Grenadiers take Objectives
- Mech Platoon & Grenadiers reinforce
- Infantry Platoons hold the line