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No-one's picking on you! We don't have much to go on at this stage, so small things will get picked up on. Try to have a backing behind your voting pattern, rather than, say, that your target used the phrase "cheese" Try not to take it personally!

Roles are supplied at random, so you're just as likely to be dark kin as the rest of us. And, imho of course, using the "you're being mean to me" defense to get out of getting voted for is pretty highly suspicious!

Then again, Vulkan has also said nothing useful or sensical yet, so I'm in two minds... :/

hmm, good point, but then again, how many times has the new guy actually been the one that is meant to be lynched?

What do you mean? I'm new too, and I'm pretty sure there are a couple of other people here who've never played before either. Statistically, one of the new guys could well be dark kin!

Here's a plan that might make people less suspicious of you - why don't you tell us who you find most suspect at the moment and why? That way you can show that you have sensible reasons for suggesting someone be lynched!

well, i actually think that avantgarde could be dark kin, he is the one that was jumping on the table pointing randomly, and besides, we havn't heard from him in a while, he could be hiding something.

That makes more sense, but there no evidence to back it up apart from the fact that we all could be Dark Kin.

Khaine's Wrath... what if you're right Lord-Loss

What if we're ALL Dark Kin sleeper agents? Am I me? What if I'm not?!

No, no, I am BishopGore, I am an Eldar, I have stood amongst the wraithbone trees of the craftworld and sung songs to my ancestors.

Sorry, I think I'm a little highly strung for all this intrigue.

That reasoning really makes no sense. If only vet Mafia players get anti-town roles, then that would mean that no one is anti-town, becuase even those who HAVE played before have only done so a couple of times.

Surprisingly, there are no real vets in this round. Which is both assuring and worrying from my point of view.

Assuring becuase the likelihood of any/all the anti-town roles having much experience is fairly low.

Worrying, becuase if there are those with some experience, or just really quick on the uptake, then they'll find manipulating a crowd of pro-towns all too easy. Especially since most of them don't have experience either.

By that reasoning, should we vote all the experienced people off the space ship first? That way we can be sure nobody is hiding an anti-town role with skill, rather it's all by luck. And the lucky trip up first.

There's a few of us who are first timers, maybe we should gang up on the old hands and make this a level playing field?

Wow, thats some of the scummiest thinking I have seen this whole game. Seriously, you dont want to kill all X amount of people first etc. Achually It would be better to kill the inexprienced players first, as its most likely that the Dark Kin are on of them.. but we wont do that, because its silly.

I'm sure you would see it that way, since you'd be classed as one of the good players. But sometimes survival of the fittest is about the weakest gathering together to destroy the strongest.

That comment has certainly rattled your chain, anyway.

You want to eliminate suspicous players, if someone does something that is suspicous, call them out on it, force an explaination out of them. Put pressure on them by voting for them. We need people to make sense and not come up with idea's like killing all of Y players because If they were a Dark Kin, they'd be most dangerous. Idea's like that are very, very scummy.

My chain has been rattled because thats an absurd idea, you want to judge people on their actions, not on how many games they played, or how good they are!

At this stage of the game everyone is suspicious, by making claims which target certain sectors you can see who responds most vehemently and thus draw conclusions about the sort of people you're in the town with.

Unfortunately you're the only one who did and you used a vaguely personal attack to do so, which I felt I had to respond to, otherwise I'd have sat back and seen who responded with what.

From this so far I know that you use vaguely insulting terminology to target ideas and voting that you don't like, which is fair enough, now I can watch the way you continue to work and decide whether you're consistant.

1) How did I insult you?

2) You talked about killing off all exprienced players, which would be bad for pro-town people.

3) I called your idea's silly and aburd because they are. How would you expect people to respond to such an idea?

4) The way I reacted shows I'm pro-town, I could have agreed with you saying that killing off certain groups of people first is a good idea. But I did not, because Im pro-town!

Lord-Loss wrote:1) How did I insult you?

I said vaguely personal attack. Scummy is not a nice term and you have aimed it at me twice now

2) You talked about killing off all exprienced players, which would be bad for pro-town people.

I don't agree with this at all.

3) I called your idea's silly and aburd because they are. How would you expect people to respond to such an idea?

The proposal WAS silly, it was meant to make people react.

4) The way I reacted shows I'm pro-town, I could have agreed with you saying that killing off certain groups of people first is a good idea. But I did not, because Im pro-town!

I never said you weren't pro-town, I simply made a comment of what I've seen you do so far and if you start acting irrationally then you'll become suspicious

Any news from SideEffect? And I'd love to hear a little more from Vulkan - anyone you find suspicious other than your sandwich, man?

Ahhh scummy isnt a personal attack man. When someone is acting scummy their acting like anti-town, like a Dark Kin/genestealer.

Killing off all the exprienced player could go either way for the Town, as we could all be innocent, or one, or two of us could be scum. Its a very risky thing to do, I think we should avoid killing off people just because there in a certain 'group'.

hmmm, i never realised one thing could make this big an argument

Shas, its not one thing, its suggesting the elimination of a large amount of players because they fit into a certain category. The way you see this as "One thing" makes me even more suspicous of you.

well, im a very simplified person, i always put people into big catagories for no reason, gives my life a little orginisation.

I have absolutely no idea who to find suspicious at the moment
as there has not been much evidence on anyone yet
But the chances of getting a dark kin on the first day is very low unless they come out and admit it

Now that the evidence has piled up let me make my inferences. Even though all of you are probably guilty and I expect to awaken, figuratively, with eleven knives in my back the next day.

Shas'o: Either he plays the fool or is ignorant of the aura of suspicion he exudes. I have begun to lean toward the latter, but do not regard him with trust.

BishopGore: He has already twice suggested unorthodox and illogical methods for rooting out the culprits. Once he has proposed drawing names at random even though the method he choose was biased (2d6 gravitates toward the 7) and once again he advocates leaving justice to unblind chance by eliminating the more experienced first. Even though he has offered those suggestions this can be attributed to him:

BishopGore wrote:I'm not going to be throwing any votes into the pool yet, but I'm watching you all.

His poor counsel in conjunction with his reluctance to express his franchise in support of his opinions clouds the issue of his innocence.

Lord-Loss: His fervor in the pursuit of Shas'o is disconcerting. Though I cannot fault him without becoming a hypocrite. I am unsure in regards to his encouragement of others to pressure Shas'o. I have come to three conclusions: 1. He is level, and is actively trying to determine Shas'o's position through pressure. 2. He believes Shas'o is innocent and is trying lure out the predators with an easy meal. 3. He is a dark kin and is using Shas'o as a shield regardless of Shas'o's stance. These of course are ranked in likeliness to unlikeliness.

Vulkan He'stan: He has put forward no accusations or suspicions. Most upsetting is his malaise and disinterest in investigation under the pretense that it is unlikely we come to the right conclusion.

I am ambivalent about the rest.

I'm trying to make Shas explain himself, he has been the most suspicous so far, thats why Im concentrating on him.

@BishopGore: Truth be told, it's not the brightest idea. You're betting on the fact that experience players are likely to be Dark Kin, but it's entirely likely that they're not. In fact, they may even be pro-town with special skills. (Such as Warlock=Inquisitor or something)

Regardless, it would take far too long.

1) There are 3-4 vaugely experience players, so that's 3-4 nights of voting.

2) That means that there is 3-4 nights of the Dark Kin having thier way with us. If you're targetting experience players, who do you think they'll target? You guys.

3) Sooner or later, with random voting, there'll be more of them than there are of us.

4) Bad, Bishop.

BishopGore is now my number one suspicion. Two attempts to get us to resort to absolutely idiotic lynching methods and trying to cover for shas'o?

I kind of felt that Bishop's idea was one of those "if you disagree, I'm joking; if you don't, I'm not" kind of statements. Which worries me.

I still find Vulkan and Shas'o pretty suspicious, but like someone said earlier, it's hard to tell if it's randomness for the sake of randomness, or so they don't have to make sensible accusations. Hmmmm...

avantgarde wrote:Now that the evidence has piled up let me make my inferences. Even though all of you are probably guilty and I expect to awaken, figuratively, with eleven knives in my back the next day.

Shas'o: Either he plays the fool or is ignorant of the aura of suspicion he exudes. I have begun to lean toward the latter, but do not regard him with trust.

BishopGore: He has already twice suggested unorthodox and illogical methods for rooting out the culprits. Once he has proposed drawing names at random even though the method he choose was biased (2d6 gravitates toward the 7) and once again he advocates leaving justice to unblind chance by eliminating the more experienced first. Even though he has offered those suggestions this can be attributed to him:

BishopGore wrote:I'm not going to be throwing any votes into the pool yet, but I'm watching you all.

His poor counsel in conjunction with his reluctance to express his franchise in support of his opinions clouds the issue of his innocence.

Lord-Loss: His fervor in the pursuit of Shas'o is disconcerting. Though I cannot fault him without becoming a hypocrite. I am unsure in regards to his encouragement of others to pressure Shas'o. I have come to three conclusions: 1. He is level, and is actively trying to determine Shas'o's position through pressure. 2. He believes Shas'o is innocent and is trying lure out the predators with an easy meal. 3. He is a dark kin and is using Shas'o as a shield regardless of Shas'o's stance. These of course are ranked in likeliness to unlikeliness.

Vulkan He'stan: He has put forward no accusations or suspicions. Most upsetting is his malaise and disinterest in investigation under the pretense that it is unlikely we come to the right conclusion.

I am ambivalent about the rest.

To be fair, it was a D12. I said 2d6 and me to be one just to be funny.

avantgarde wrote:

Lord-Loss: His fervor in the pursuit of Shas'o is disconcerting. Though I cannot fault him without becoming a hypocrite. I am unsure in regards to his encouragement of others to pressure Shas'o. I have come to three conclusions: 1. He is level, and is actively trying to determine Shas'o's position through pressure. 2. He believes Shas'o is innocent and is trying lure out the predators with an easy meal. 3. He is a dark kin and is using Shas'o as a shield regardless of Shas'o's stance. These of course are ranked in likeliness to unlikeliness.

Very good. Option 2) Never occured to me. Maybe becuase I never thought Lord_Loss was that smart.

As for me:

BishopGore: I'm viewing him with a more sort of 'WTF?' than actual suspicion. I think he is just a little frustrated with out low odds of actually catching a Dark Kin today, and figures that if it's really that random, we might as well choose randomly anyway. However, how does this change the situation on Day 2? It doesn't. The more discussion, the more we have to go on. The more we have to go on, the better chance of trailing an anti-town.

Shas'o vera: I WANT to give him the benefit of the doubt, and put his silliness down to firts-time jitters...but it's a tried and tested method of anti-town members to cloak thier shoddy patterns with a veil of silliness. Right now, I'm trying to gauge whether Shas'o really is that smart for a first timer...

oh great, sure, kill me on the first day, of course, lets all vote out the first timer that has annoyoed most of you in other discussions, this is biased.

Shas'o, you need to mount a proper defense, rather than complaining Trying to claim people are biased against you just makes you look more suspicious!

Most people have explained why they find your posts questionable, why not address that directly?

Main ones seem to be your bandwagon vote at the start (if that was an accident, it would help to explain that), your random votes (look at the reasons other people are voting for people, and try to use logic to make your own decisions), and your quirky random thing (anti-town roles have apparently used that to disguise themselves in the past). If you address those things, people might not vote for you!

That's just benefit of the doubt though. Personally I'm pretty sure you're dark kin by now

I'm probably louder than I should be, rather than simply watching I try to push everyone around me, which probably makes me seem like a trouble maker (or an idiot, I can see that could easily be inferred from some of my previous posts).

So rather than making loud agressive statements, I'm going to start asking questions.

Firstly, I notice quite a few people haven't gotten involved yet. Is this likely because a) They don't come on Dakka often or b) They've been given a boring role with no potential for fun, so they're mostly going to ignore this thread?

It seems to me (and I'm painting a big bulls eye on myself here with this comment) that if you have a role which is fun, maybe you'd be posting more? Or is it that they're sitting silently and watching, not having any suspicion targeted at them because they're not really involved, which means later in the game they can rip, rend and tear?

So many levels to think on at once. This game is going to be challenging.