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So, hold on... Is conducting air raids on neighboring countries "legal?" Cause I'm guessing it's not.

Israel does "illegal" stuff all the time. Conversely, rocket attacks are made against Israel. Also "illegal" by some irrelevant standard, and yet still going on.

Yelling that it's "illegal" only serves to demonstrate how ill prepared the "law" is to deal with the actual situations it's supposed to cover. If your code of laws is completely out of sync with the reality on the ground, and has absolutely no capacity to enforce itself, then what good is it, and why are we even talking about it?

Interestingly enough the causal relationship of israel committing an illegal act and israel becoming isolated and losing its foreign support is still intact despite the lack of space police in giant robots putting them to task.

Did I just quote the same thing twice? Yes I did. Why? Because thats how many things are wrong with it.

You're suggesting that Israel will face "much increased hostility." For shooting ten people on a boat. Remember the time they invaded Lebanon? Remember the ten thousand other, bigger things they did in the past?

But THIS one is going to change the situation. This is the BIGGY.

Strangely enough, yeah. Remember when you were talking about the real situation on the ground? Well it's important here, ,so try and pay attention to it instead of your own sense of global symmetry.

Right or wrong, Israel is in VERY deep with the US, they have a very powerful, very aggressive lobby, and in general all of this is a-ok with the American populace. It'd take a LONG period of negative interaction before they'd be "rebuffed entirely." It'd certainly take a lot more than the petulant frowny face act the Obama administration is putting on.

Apparently you don't pay as much attention to American politics as you should then, the Israel lobby is far, far weaker than it was a decade ago.

ShumaGorath wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

olympia wrote:In this video you can clearly see the Israelis attacking the ship. The civilians defend themselves with plastic deck chairs among other things.

My word, and this was supposed to make me angry with the Israeli soldiers?!

I have fast roped onto a deck before, if i was jumping out the helo into THAT mess, id be very nervous.

And id start blowing peoples faces off as soon as my first buddy got assaulted and thrown overboard.

They outnumbered them on the deck by what? Ten to One?

Id have started shooting. Damn straight i would.

If I were you I would wonder what the hell my commander is thinking having us rope down into a hostile civilian environment in international waters when we have ships and control the surrounding ocean areas. The entire operation wasn't necessary and speaks to some incredibly poor decision making on the part of the commander on the ground (who apparently wasn't authorized to act in this fashion). Its not a particular surprise the troops acted in the way that they did given the actions of the civilians, but bear in mind the troops shouldn't have been there at all to begin with. Both sides show certain fault here.

Indeed Shuma, that was an absolute clusterfeth, trying to fastrope onto a hostile boat like that is ludicrous, the fact that the crew could grab their lines speaks volumes. It was perfect for a MIB or RIB but roping down onto a crowded deck like that was lunacy. I can only assume that they incorrectly thought the crew would be cowed as they were civilians. I wouldnt have made that mistake, i know how much those types of people loathe the jews. The types that say "we miss you Hitler" on the streets of England and are at this very moment spamming my facebook with Adolfs name.

I wouldnt have made any of those mistakes, and id have tear gassed and baton gunned the gak out of the crew from a MIB (hopefully)resulting in no fatalities to the enemy or my own guys, but hey, i retired.

gak storm aside, no wonder the soldiers fired. That was chaos and i have no doubt at all they would have been beaten to death if they didnt start filling the air with some lead.

Its fine saying fire some warning shots first, id remember these poor guys.




Ill never forget that, and i saw way more graphic footage than that. They ripped them apart like dogs. If i roped into that mess, id be blasting when i landed.

Indeed Shuma, that was an absolute clusterfeth, trying to fastrope onto a hostile boat like that is ludicrous, the fact that the crew could grab their lines speaks volumes. It was perfect for a MIB or RIB but roping down onto a crowded deck like that was lunacy. I can only assume that they incorrectly thought the crew would be cowed as they were civilians. I wouldnt have made that mistake, i know how much those types of people loathe the jews. The types that say "we miss you Hitler" on the streets of England and are at this very moment spamming my facebook with Adolfs name.

I think you need to separate a hatred of jews and a hatred of israel. One is a religion, the other is an incredibly militaristic and aggressive regime that is attempting to occupy and take over an islamic country that just happens to also contain the holy land. People all over the world dislike Israel without caring one way or the other for jews.

gak storm aside, no wonder the soldiers fired. That was chaos and i have no doubt at all they would have been beaten to death if they didnt start filling the air with some lead.

They seemed to be throwing them off the ship, rather than just beating them to death but its unknown how they would have acted once the solders were unconscious.

Interestingly enough the causal relationship of israel committing an illegal act and israel becoming isolated and losing its foreign support is still intact despite the lack of space police in giant robots putting them to task.

I love the snark here, but you shouldn't get too wedded to it. You were so in love with your giant space robots, that you didn't delete this paragraph after you realized that I had spoken to the issue in the next quote.

Strangely enough, yeah. Remember when you were talking about the real situation on the ground? Well it's important here, ,so try and pay attention to it instead of your own sense of global symmetry.

NICE! More snark. It's devoid of any real substance as far as the actual discussion goes, but it does have some good snark, and big concepts that make it look smart.

Now, if I can paraphrase between all the snark and sophistry, I think you're trying to say that this event really IS going to lead to "much increased hostility."

Moreso, for example, than was created by invading Lebanon, killing 1500 or so civillians, and causing untold property damage?

Is that your argument? Cause I'd love to make a bet on this.

One is a religion, the other is an incredibly militaristic and aggressive regime that is attempting to occupy and take over an islamic country that just happens to also contain the holy land.

And one is a country of poeple, and the other is Zionists. And whatever, and it's complicated, and actually, people aren't nearly as refined as you think you are, because they're not trying to win an internet pissing match, they're trying to feed their kids, or control their neighborhood, or ascend the ladder of their local political situation, or protect their bloodline from genocide.

If you're going to try to refine somebody's generalization, don't replace it with an equally vague and inaccurate generalization.

ShumaGorath wrote:

I think you need to separate a hatred of jews and a hatred of israel. One is a religion, the other is an incredibly militaristic and aggressive regime that is attempting to occupy and take over an islamic country that just happens to also contain the holy land. People all over the world dislike Israel without caring one way or the other for jews.

Aye true enough that mate, its just me banging away at the keyboard and knowing you guys will get what i mean. But i agree entirely with what you say there, certainly id say most British non Muslims that support Palestine dont hate all jews, just the state of Israel. Muslims however im pretty sure their loathing of the State does extend to all Jews as well although to a lesser extent, but thats not important at the moment. Suffice to say My Dad doesnt support Israel at all, but i dont think he generically hates Jews.

Well, i dont think so anyway.

I love the snark here, but you shouldn't get too wedded to it. You were so in love with your giant space robots, that you didn't delete this paragraph after you realized that I had spoken to the issue in the next quote.

And I disagreed with your conclusion. Paragraphs, how the feth do they work?

NICE! More snark. It's devoid of any real substance as far as the actual discussion goes, but it does have some good snark, and big concepts that make it look smart.

I combat snark with snark.

Now, if I can paraphrase between all the snark and sophistry, I think you're trying to say that this event really IS going to lead to "much increased hostility."

Moreso, for example, than was created by invading Lebanon, killing 1500 or so civillians, and causing untold property damage?

Is that your argument? Cause I'd love to make a bet on this.

It already has. Turkey was Israels closest mid-eastern ally and has withdrawn their diplomat already over this. The ship was largely full of turkish nationals and the ones who died were most likely turkish. This is already more severe than what occurred over Israels last war. Again, you're putting what you believe would be logical over what is actually true. Israels situation on the ground is much different now then it was then. Greece has canceled joint military operations over this for instance.

And one is a country of poeple, and the other is Zionists. And whatever, and it's complicated, and actually, people aren't nearly as refined as you think you are, because they're not trying to win an internet pissing match, they're trying to feed their kids, or control their neighborhood, or ascend the ladder of their local political situation, or protect their bloodline from genocide.

If you're going to try to refine somebody's generalization, don't replace it with an equally vague and inaccurate generalization.

I think you might want to try and use a bit of moderation when reading my post there. I was simply pointing out the fact that mideastern anger at isreal stems from more than just the fact that its jewish. It doesn't look like you're particularly good at handling disagreement though so whatever you want to post is cool brosky.

Interestingly enough the causal relationship of israel committing an illegal act and israel becoming isolated and losing its foreign support is still intact despite the lack of space police in giant robots putting them to task.

And, actually, now that I think about it, you're not even right about this.

There's no "causal relationhip." Nobody cares if it was legal or not. What world do you live in?

Hamas Underling: Boss! Did you see that the Israelis boarded an aid ship, and shot 10 of our brothers to death?
Hamas Chief: I did. That's cool, though, whatever. They gotta do what they gotta do.
HU: But, Boss, this was in international waters!
HC: I heard, so what? Israelis be shootin' people, what of it?
HU: Well, boss, according to the ICC's Document on International Codifications and Contrivances, that's illegal!
HC: WHAT! They've violated the DoICaC? ALLAH CURSE THEIR MOUSTACHES! GET ME MY JERRY RIGGED ROCKET TUBE!

No, dude. No. There's no causal relationship between the legalities and any increase in hostility.

mattyrm wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

I think you need to separate a hatred of jews and a hatred of israel. One is a religion, the other is an incredibly militaristic and aggressive regime that is attempting to occupy and take over an islamic country that just happens to also contain the holy land. People all over the world dislike Israel without caring one way or the other for jews.

Aye true enough that mate, its just me banging away at the keyboard and knowing you guys will get what i mean. But i agree entirely with what you say there, certainly id say most British non Muslims that support Palestine dont hate all jews, just the state of Israel. Muslims however im pretty sure their loathing of the State does extend to all Jews as well although to a lesser extent, but thats not important at the moment. Suffice to say My Dad doesnt support Israel at all, but i dont think he generically hates Jews.

Well, i dont think so anyway.

None of the muslims I've ever met have hated jews, but your mileage may vary.

And, actually, now that I think about it, you're not even right about this.

There's no "causal relationhip." Nobody cares if it was legal or not. What world do you live in?

The real one. Stop posting conversations you're having with yourself.

Phryxis wrote:

Interestingly enough the causal relationship of israel committing an illegal act and israel becoming isolated and losing its foreign support is still intact despite the lack of space police in giant robots putting them to task.

And, actually, now that I think about it, you're not even right about this.

There's no "causal relationhip." Nobody cares if it was legal or not. What world do you live in?

Hamas Underling: Boss! Did you see that the Israelis boarded an aid ship, and shot 10 of our brothers to death?
Hamas Chief: I did. That's cool, though, whatever. They gotta do what they gotta do.
HU: But, Boss, this was in international waters!
HC: I heard, so what? Israelis be shootin' people, what of it?
HU: Well, boss, according to the ICC's Document on International Codifications and Contrivances, that's illegal!
HC: WHAT! They've violated the DoICaC? ALLAH CURSE THEIR MOUSTACHES! GET ME MY JERRY RIGGED ROCKET TUBE!

No, dude. No. There's no causal relationship between the legalities and any increase in hostility.

I just laughed Pepsi Max all over my keyboard!

Gwar! wrote:

Phryxis wrote:

Interestingly enough the causal relationship of israel committing an illegal act and israel becoming isolated and losing its foreign support is still intact despite the lack of space police in giant robots putting them to task.

And, actually, now that I think about it, you're not even right about this.

There's no "causal relationhip." Nobody cares if it was legal or not. What world do you live in?

Hamas Underling: Boss! Did you see that the Israelis boarded an aid ship, and shot 10 of our brothers to death?
Hamas Chief: I did. That's cool, though, whatever. They gotta do what they gotta do.
HU: But, Boss, this was in international waters!
HC: I heard, so what? Israelis be shootin' people, what of it?
HU: Well, boss, according to the ICC's Document on International Codifications and Contrivances, that's illegal!
HC: WHAT! They've violated the DoICaC? ALLAH CURSE THEIR MOUSTACHES! GET ME MY JERRY RIGGED ROCKET TUBE!

No, dude. No. There's no causal relationship between the legalities and any increase in hostility.

I just laughed Pepsi Max all over my keyboard!

Yes, you also said they were violating the blockade despite every other post in this thread using the words international waters. It's not a surprise that you would find the wacky muslim charactature and totally unrealistic review of international law standards and acts funny.

I'm sorry to hear about the keyboard however. This is just another casualty of this terrible conflict. Damn israel!

:edit: Ima go play some chaos rising.

Israels situation on the ground is much different now then it was then. Greece has canceled joint military operations over this for instance.

There as considerable fallout after the most recent war in Lebanon. Some felt that Israel's nose was so bloodied that they'd lost the intimidation they needed to survive.

And then, over time, back we go to the usual patter of rockets one day, airstrike the next, border tussle a month later, bulldozers the next, more settlements, etc. etc. No significant change.

I don't doubt that you can point to specific fallout. What I'm saying is that in three months this incident will be forgotten, if not completely, then far more than the war in Lebanon was.

I was simply pointing out the fact that mideastern anger at isreal stems from more than just the fact that its jewish.

Well, if that's all, then I totally disagree.

There are lots of aggressive, militaristic nations in the middle east. Iraq decided to invade Iran, millions died, and you don't see some huge, region wide backlash against Iraq.

It's also not solely an issue of arbitrary borders drawn by Westerners. Many nations in that area were defined as a result of external meddling.

The simple fact is that the Arab states don't like Israel because they're Jewish. That's the base motivation at work. With that as a foundation, both sides have managed to build up a rich history of antagonism, violence and death, and it's grown to be more that simple racism, but that's really the core of it.

It's not like the surrounding Arab states are bending over backwards to help out the Palestinians. The Egyptians and Jordanians have refused them land, sovereignty, and gone so far as to attack them militarily.

The fact is, the Palestinians are just a pawn of the Arab states, being driven to create strife by proxy. Note the fundamental racism there. These Arab states have no respect at all for the Palestinians, an no intention of giving them anything they demand Israel give them. But, when it comes to conflict with Jews, suddenly they're huge supporters of Palestine.

@Dogma
However, at the moment, Israel is a strategic asset due to its divisive influence on the Mediterranean seaboard.

And the American nuclear missiles, based in Turkey, are not a strategic asset?
A fellow NATO member?

This is different; an attack on ships in international waters is a violation of state sovereignty without legitimate cause.

Where were the ships registered? Because they have rights in international waters.



The Iraq War wasn't illegal, as legitimate cause was established via the various resolutions against certain activity on the part of that state.

Yes the weapons of mass destruction, all those nukes we found.

Eer hang on

@Olympia The similarities between Israel and the Apartheid regime are striking.

The similarities between the Israelis and the Nazis worry me,

The Germans rounded up Jews into enclaves and starved them into submission.

The Israelis have rounded up Palestinians into enclaves and are only allowing 25% of the required material in.

No building materials to rebuild houses etc.

They are becoming what they hate.

I remember the six day war, praying for Israel to survive.
Now not so sure that was a good thing.

Before 911 The world saw pictures of a young boy being machine gunned by the Israelis,

Then the twin towers happened and the world looked away

Territorial waters are 12 nautical Miles from land, the Contiguous Zone is another 12, giving a 24 mile "buffer" for coastal regions. Beyond this is an "Exclusive Economical Zone" of usually 200 miles. This zone is where commercial intrests such as drilling for oil and fishing are governed by a soveign nation.
However, the 24 mile zone is what is in question here. Approaching any vessel outside of that zone is in effect acting in international waters.
Now consider that the fastest speed any of the flotilla boats could achieve was probably less than 20 knots. They were probably travelling at a bit more than half that. That gives the the Isreali Naval forces about two hours to intercept and divert the incoming boats.
This incedent was at least 8 hours from the coast.


How about.. for discussion sake.. we move this incedent, hypothetically, to Korea.

Say North Korea attacks a boat in international waters, the same 80 miles out, resulting in multiple deaths. Then claims that the boat was planning on sailing closer to North Korea for reasons of spying.
Would N.Korea be in the right or would there be sanctions and such?

Just so you all know it, Israel is sick... sick with Ruski-disease, which primary symptom is that they don't care what the heck the rest of the world says. And the blast in this is... that the UN is a lame horse that won't even say anything.

I hope you all enjoy tearing at each other. Because it makes Israel the greatest troll in the world. Give yourselves an applaud, you all deserve it for proving that Israel is THE troll!

Vargtass wrote:Just so you all know it, Israel is sick... sick with Ruski-disease, which primary symptom is that they don't care what the heck the rest of the world says.

You maybe right

And the blast in this is... that the UN is a lame horse that won't even say anything.

As long as america VETO's all calls for sanctions against Isreal, they can do as they like.

To be fair America has tried to solve the Problem, and has had some good idea's.
But not the political will to see it through

mattyrm wrote:If they tell you not to go through with your boat, then dont go. Im sick of these self righteous hippy types thinking they can do as they like. And im most amused they are stunned at what occured. Its the Isreali military!

The Israelis are doing what they like, and while they are certainly self righteous, they are hardly hippies.

Foreign boat in international waters heading to a foreign port under illegal blockade. Israel can protest, but what they did is criminal.

Besides Gaza is suffering and suffering because of the Israelis. The only work many can get is over the border where they queue for two hours to get in work for under the pay a Jew would be paid have no employment rights and no other options to feed their families. Were it not illegal under EU law I would be looking at comparisons between Gaza and various forced ghettos in Europe some sixty off years ago. As it happens the berst I can say is that Israel is running an 'apartheid' regime. Their policies are evil.

@Ahtman et al.

I think it's worth pointing out that I don't believe that Israel being 'cut off' is LIKELY, just that I personally believe it would be worthwhile. Desirable, even.

Neither do I think that all Israelis=Zionist, just that Zionist actions and beliefs cause a lot of Israel's problems, whether directly or indirectly.

I think it's worth pointing out that I don't believe that Israel being 'cut off' is LIKELY, just that I personally believe it would be worthwhile. Desirable, even.

Desirable?

They've got nukes. If they're backed into a corner, I think they're one of the most likely nations in the world to use them. Do we really want that?

I know, I know... We can't be held hostage by their bad behavior or whatever. But the fact is, I don't think they'll ever allow us to live in a world where them "losing" is desirable for anyone.

helgrenze wrote:Territorial waters are 12 nautical Miles from land, the Contiguous Zone is another 12, giving a 24 mile "buffer" for coastal regions. Beyond this is an "Exclusive Economical Zone" of usually 200 miles. This zone is where commercial intrests such as drilling for oil and fishing are governed by a soveign nation.
However, the 24 mile zone is what is in question here. Approaching any vessel outside of that zone is in effect acting in international waters.
Now consider that the fastest speed any of the flotilla boats could achieve was probably less than 20 knots. They were probably travelling at a bit more than half that. That gives the the Isreali Naval forces about two hours to intercept and divert the incoming boats.
This incedent was at least 8 hours from the coast.


How about.. for discussion sake.. we move this incedent, hypothetically, to Korea.

Say North Korea attacks a boat in international waters, the same 80 miles out, resulting in multiple deaths. Then claims that the boat was planning on sailing closer to North Korea for reasons of spying.
Would N.Korea be in the right or would there be sanctions and such?

Considering that NK torpedoed that SK warship, that's entirely an amusing comparison.

And actually, I have seen pirates board by helo, but that was in Asia.

Actually, in the event that you do not have fire hoses/water cannons handy, throwing the pirates overboard is an acceptable anti-piracy tactic. You're just discouraged from shooting them.

For people who laugh at piracy on the high seas these days, an except from IMB live piracy feed this month:


31.05.2010: 0330 LT: Posn: 06:45S – 039:20E: Dar es Salaam anchorage, Tanzania.

Robbers boarded an anchored container ship. They assaulted the forward deck watch keeper, threatened him at knife point and tied him to a pole. When there was no communication with the forward crew, other crew members were sent forward. Alarm raised and port control contacted. One unarmed security guard was sent onboard the vessel. Investigation showed containers were broke into.

29.05.2010: 05:51 UTC: Posn: 18:34N – 072:23W, Port au Prince Anchorage, Haiti.

Six robbers armed with knives attempted to board a container ship at anchor. Alert crew raised alarm and mustered the crew. Robbers aborted the attempt and escaped. Master informed port authority and ships in the vicinity. No casualties and no damage to ship.

26.05.2010: 0130 LT: Posn: Chittagong anchorage, Bangladesh.

About 10 robbers in a long wooden boat boarded a container ship at anchor. Duty crew sighted the robbers and raised alarm. The robbers escaped with stolen stores upon seeing the crew alertness.

25.05.2010: 1407 UTC: Posn: 14:25.6N – 054:22.3E, Gulf of Aden.

Pirates armed with guns in a skiff chased and attempted to board a tanker underway. Master increased speed, carried out evasive manoeuvres and raised alarm. Pirates aborted the attempted attack after 30 minutes and moved away.

25.05.2010: 0229 UTC: Posn: 05:39S – 039:29E north of Zanzibar island, off Somalia.

Two skiffs with five pirates in each, armed with guns fired upon a product tanker underway with intent to hijack. Master increased speed, took evasive manoeuvres, and enforced anti piracy measures resulting in the pirates aborting attack.


This gak goes on 24/7. 80 miles off shore, under international maritime law, Israel has no authority to do this: for the same reason that US Navy Seals do not raid humanitarian supplies heading to Cuba. Assuming that the ships were sailing under Turkish registry, Turkey could construe this as an act of war under the guidelines set by the UN.

Phryxis wrote:
They've got nukes. If they've painted themselves into a corner, I think they're one of the most likely nations in the world to use them. Do we really want that?

Fixed.

Phryxis wrote:

I think it's worth pointing out that I don't believe that Israel being 'cut off' is LIKELY, just that I personally believe it would be worthwhile. Desirable, even.

Desirable?

They've got nukes. If they're backed into a corner, I think they're one of the most likely nations in the world to use them. Do we really want that?

I know, I know... We can't be held hostage by their bad behavior or whatever. But the fact is, I don't think they'll ever allow us to live in a world where them "losing" is desirable for anyone.

Israel never confirmed or denied having nukes,
So should be MAYBE HAS NUKES

Considering that Hamas supporters were seen using an Israeli soldiers severed head as a football in past times, I don't blame the soldiers for lighting the decks up when things looked nasty.
It's easy to judge from a position of living in a fairly safe country. If we, in the United States were in Israel's position, I think we wouldn't act much different.

Remember that feeling watching the towers go down and our fellow country men plunging to their deaths? Imagine that kind of thing hanging over your head on a daily basis.

Relapse wrote:If we, in the United States were in Israel's position, I think we wouldn't act much different.

You don't act differently anyway, to be quite honest.

Phryxis wrote:And yet, I've heard it referred to as an "illegal war" countless times. I agree with you, it wasn't "illegal" in any real way, but people call it that regardless.

My dad is evidently a blasphemer per the same standard. I don't listen to 'people'. You shouldn't either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ahtman wrote:
So now you know why we won't completely drop Israel. Just look at this thread, generally, there will be enough support that it won't be dropped. The resolution isn't going to be to either side 100% with Israel or 100% with Palestine.

I think this is going to be an 'agree to disagree' moment, because I see sufficient popular sentiment (not in this thread) to drop Israel.

Good on the commandos.

After seeing the video showing the commando being thrown over the railing, the commandos being stabbed and beated with iron bars, I have no hesitation in backing the commandos.

Did Israel go in too early, yes.
Did they act the only way they could have once there, yes.
This was never a peaceful flotilla, if it was they would't have had firebombs, knives and batons/bars.

A clip from a Turkish news service showed that some of the protesters on board the ship in question had gas masks, tear gas, and pistols.

Peaceful my ass.

Kanluwen wrote:A clip from a Turkish news service showed that some of the protesters on board the ship in question had gas masks, tear gas, and pistols.

Peaceful my ass.

Don't be silly, everyone knows those lovely not at all terrorists in Gaza are frightfully low on Tear gas and pistols.

WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

jp400 wrote:Maybe we are seeing different videos on the net of it, but I have seen video and read that the flotilla was told and warned on a couple of different occasions not to attempt to run the blockade.

It is a simple cause of Cause and Effect.

1: They were warned.
2: They knew of the blockade and what the outcome might Be.
3: They decide to attempt to run the blockade.
4: They get boarded (Shocker) and decide to attack armed soldiers.
5: Soldiers react to threat.

Except for the bit where they're in international waters. The soldiers had no right to stop or board the ships. It's like Mexican cops trying to stop you in Texas.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

jp400 wrote:Maybe we are seeing different videos on the net of it, but I have seen video and read that the flotilla was told and warned on a couple of different occasions not to attempt to run the blockade.

It is a simple cause of Cause and Effect.

1: They were warned.
2: They knew of the blockade and what the outcome might Be.
3: They decide to attempt to run the blockade.
4: They get boarded (Shocker) and decide to attack armed soldiers.
5: Soldiers react to threat.

Except for the bit where they're in international waters. The soldiers had no right to stop or board the ships. It's like Mexican cops trying to stop you in Texas.

What about the Cuban missle crisis? The U.S. was stopping and turning around ships bound for Cuba with nukes on the high seas in order to protect itself. Do you think that wrong also?

Relapse wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

jp400 wrote:Maybe we are seeing different videos on the net of it, but I have seen video and read that the flotilla was told and warned on a couple of different occasions not to attempt to run the blockade.

It is a simple cause of Cause and Effect.

1: They were warned.
2: They knew of the blockade and what the outcome might Be.
3: They decide to attempt to run the blockade.
4: They get boarded (Shocker) and decide to attack armed soldiers.
5: Soldiers react to threat.

Except for the bit where they're in international waters. The soldiers had no right to stop or board the ships. It's like Mexican cops trying to stop you in Texas.

What about the Cuban missle crisis? The U.S. was stopping and turning around ships bound for Cuba with nukes on the high seas in order to protect itself. Do you think that wrong also?

Wanna show proof that the US Boarded those ships back in the 60's? What was the body count?

Sorry, but the Isrealis did wrong here. Its the same as what has happened in Darfur. Aid is being intercepted and then distributed as those taking it see fit. Isreal is blockading Gaza on land and sea to "hurt" Hamas, but they are only making them look better in the eyes of those that Isreal is really hurting... the People in Gaza.