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skrulnik wrote:And how many Warmachine conversions have you seen?

Very few, due to the restrictions placed on recognizability of the models.

Those you do see are added details, no counts as, no swapping the base model for what you like the look of better.

Not a good or a bad thing, but it indicates the focus of the game over the hobby.

Define conversion?

I've seen quite a few reposes, extended spears on Centurions is common, additions to the Avatar to make it a little less top heavy, etc. In general, it seems that warbeasts and warjacks are the prime conversion targets. Overall, I'd say if you're really into converting, it seems that WM models and the conversion rules don't really stop you. If you were going to do a lame half attempt or try to proxy something out of place then you might have a problem.

2 cents I guess.

I am talking about building a new Haley because you dislike all the sculpts. Too bad, you are SOL, because you have to use the original model, and it has to be recognizable as such.
you are referring to minor stuff. Reposes, and part replacement are common, but Full-out re-sculpts or counts as are out.
Some of my favorite conversions have been counts as armies. Like the Genestealer Cult that used the Ork rules, or Squats using IG or SM.

In 40k, if I want an Imperial Guard officer, the only limiter I have is that he stands about 25-35mm tall, and has the weapons I buy for him. He doesn't even need to be human.
Warmachine, he can't even look similar to another model in the range, if it can cause confusion.

skrulnik wrote:I am talking about building a new Haley because you dislike all the sculpts. Too bad, you are SOL, because you have to use the original model, and it has to be recognizable as such.
you are referring to minor stuff. Reposes, and part replacement are common, but Full-out re-sculpts or counts as are out.
Some of my favorite conversions have been counts as armies. Like the Genestealer Cult that used the Ork rules, or Squats using IG or SM.

In 40k, if I want an Imperial Guard officer, the only limiter I have is that he stands about 25-35mm tall, and has the weapons I buy for him. He doesn't even need to be human.
Warmachine, he can't even look similar to another model in the range, if it can cause confusion.

Gotcha. Sure, counts as armies are out, and I have absolutely no problems with that. Can you imagine playing 50 points on 7 minute turns in Hardcore against a counts as army? No thanks!

I actually never understood the counts as mentality -- if you don't like the models that much, why did you start that army? It sucks to play against as an opponent because nothing is recognizable.

As for resculpts, I'm sure its OK as long as it looks like the desired model. Resculpt Caine running / leaning forward heavily and aiming to the right -- no problem, especially if you use some Caine bits like the torso and head. Resulpt Caine with a big beer belly and a rifle? That's just not Caine...

Well according to the PP conversion rules either of your examples is unacceptable.


Their rules state that you must replace a sword with a sword, not an axe, for example.

Granted it is up to the PG in charge if it is allowed, but if your opponent complains, you get booted unless you also have the original.
The example I remember was someone who headswapped Gorman, and gave him a tricorn hat. That was not allowed. Opponent said he thought it was a Gun Mage Captain.

Hardcore with any models is beyond me, so counts as wouldn't make a difference.
A chunk of my game time is probably me asking what their models are or verifying they are what I think.

I don't think there's any doubt that 40k models have more conversion options. If that's what you are looking for it's a great choice. I had a fully converted IG army, and when I was into modelling GW was great for that.

There are things both games do well. For example, if you are just starting out, and money is an issue, I don't think Warhammer is the way to go. A tournament size army can be bought fairly cheap for warmachine, but I can't say the same for 40k.

skrulnik wrote:
Granted it is up to the PG in charge if it is allowed, but if your opponent complains, you get booted unless you also have the original.
The example I remember was someone who headswapped Gorman, and gave him a tricorn hat. That was not allowed. Opponent said he thought it was a Gun Mage Captain.

Nope. The PG has final say, same as he does in tournament rules decicions. In this case, the PG ruled against it, but if the guy in the example had brought the conversion to me and I'd cleared it, any complainers would just have to suck it. The entire conversion issue was one I raised before applying to become a PG, since I like conversions as long as they actually resemble the same model (in context, I've never understood people who make beautiful classical hoplite armies and run them as a "counts-as" Wood Elves...play a historical, damnit) So unless you plan on entering big official US tournaments and don't bring a replacement, conversions are fairly safe. There have been tons of rather drastic conversions in NQ alone.

Somebody asked about prizes. PGs get free diploma "prices" and anybody can order coin prizes for regular tourneys. For the annual and book launch tourneys (Summer Rampage, Legends/Resurgence/Genesis) you can order special coin prizes, and the same applies to the Leagues. In addition, you can order PP trophies for bigger tourneys. The whole list is here:
http://privateerpress.com/community/organized-play/warmachine-and-hordes.

The NQ IK "fan fiction" thing I don't get. In the January issue, there was an article by Simon Berman (PP employee) about Blackwater. There was the Pendrake encounter series, which was written out of house, and possible could be called fan fiction, there was an article about the Templar with IK rules, and there was an article on the two main orders of monks in the IK, by Berman and Doug Seacat (PP's writer since IKRPG days), with new IKRPG rules. In the March issue, there was an 11-page adventure by the same authors as the previous Pendrake encounters and a 6-page article on Horgenhold by Andrew Linstrom, who wrote it based on Rhulic fluff they could not get into the Merc book. Another Pendrake Encounters by the same authors are before. May was sparse: only another Pendrake Encounters (same crew) - of course, this one introduced a new monster as a sneak peek from Zu. The recent July issue had an article on Tharn blood magic, adding to an earlier Seacat article on Circle magic in the IKRPG, by the same two regular "out of house" guys with material from Seacat and Berman.

It seems to me that the IKRPG gets a lot of attention. The guys I know who play it - I've never been able to stomach D&D 3.5 (or 3.0 or 4.0 for that matter) so I do not - use the NQ material a lot, and I like a lot of it - Pendrake encounters excepted, since so brief adventures are not even entertaining to read unless you want to use them - as a fluff source.