What IS a Christian?

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**The Bringer**

There are many different translations of the original text, but unless not true translations, they all convey the basic same meaning.

Jesus was tempted by the devil many times, and he never fell into temptation. He was both perfect and noble.

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

The DaVinci Code begs to differ!

**The Bringer**

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:The DaVinci Code begs to differ!

I would beg to differ on any string of truth in the DaVinci Code.

**Medium of Death**

You invite a Bible comparisson so openly...

I think the real question is; 'Why do people do terrible things, yet still consider themselves Christian?'

At which point do they say, 'Jesus would be cool with this?'

**The Bringer**

Being a Christian does not make you a perfect being. Only when re-born in Heaven will you be perfect.

God gives Christians the power to overcome sin, it doesn't mean you will take it all the time.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/davinci.htm

**Melissia**

If the "power to overcome sin" is present, it is there regardless of if one is Christian or not-- IE, if such a power was given by god then it is obvious that he did/does not just give it to Christians, because simply being a Christian does not make someone more open to moral actions, nor does not being a Christian make one less open to them.

The idea that somehow there are no ethics without religion does nothing but piss me off.

**Ahtman**

The Bringer wrote:He was both perfect and noble.

Not every sect believes that. Making Jesus a super hero instead of a human removes an important element of the story for many people.

**youbedead**

Ahtman wrote:
The Bringer wrote:He was both perfect and noble.

Not every sect believes that. Making Jesus a super hero instead of a human removes an important element of the story for many people.

Jesus's divinity is one of Christianities most debated issues.

Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

**GalacticDefender**

Ulver wrote:
chaplaingrabthar wrote:A Christian is someone who endeavors to follow the examples and teachings of Jesus Christ.

This.

The interpretations of those teachings that have been translated at least twice are obviously going to be varied.

Key word is endeavors. I've seen plenty of people who don't even try, actually. Then again several of my friends uphold the teachings of christ very well and are very good people.

I think you are a christian if you say you are, wether or not you are a "good christian" is an entirely different thing.

This wasn't meant to be offensive or derail the topic or anything, please nobody take this badly.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

youbedead wrote:
Amaya wrote:Do you know anything about the Bible?

Which one

lol

**FITZZ**

youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

**Squig_herder**

The Bringer wrote:He was both perfect and noble.

What about when he throws a fit when there are markets in the church? Was that a perfect fit of rage?

**youbedead**

FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

**FITZZ**

youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

Interesting...I'll have to read up on that.

Fortunately for the old neighborhood,things didn't escalate to that level,but I distinctly recall a bitter shouting match between the two over a statue of Jesus my Grandmother had placed on her front porch.
...I have to admit,I didn't understand it then...and I don't understand it now.

**youbedead**

FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

Interesting...I'll have to read up on that.

Fortunately for the old neighborhood,things didn't escalate to that level,but I distinctly recall a bitter shouting match between the two over a statue of Jesus my Grandmother had placed on her front porch.
...I have to admit,I didn't understand it then...and I don't understand it now.

If you want to be really confused, Buddha explicitly said to not worship him, and to not build idols of him. There are many statues of buddha throughout the world that are 100's of feet tall, or solid gold, etc.

**WarOne**

youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

Interesting...I'll have to read up on that.

Fortunately for the old neighborhood,things didn't escalate to that level,but I distinctly recall a bitter shouting match between the two over a statue of Jesus my Grandmother had placed on her front porch.
...I have to admit,I didn't understand it then...and I don't understand it now.

If you want to be really confused, Buddha explicitly said to not worship him, and to not build idols of him. There are many statues of buddha throughout the world that are 100's of feet tall, or solid gold, etc.

Does Buddha have the same standards for idolatry that Judeo-Christian religions have?

**FITZZ**

youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

Interesting...I'll have to read up on that.

Fortunately for the old neighborhood,things didn't escalate to that level,but I distinctly recall a bitter shouting match between the two over a statue of Jesus my Grandmother had placed on her front porch.
...I have to admit,I didn't understand it then...and I don't understand it now.

If you want to be really confused, Buddha explicitly said to not worship him, and to not build idols of him. There are many statues of buddha throughout the world that are 100's of feet tall, or solid gold, etc.

this would be indicative of why I simply can't "get behind" any religion,I won't knock others for choosing to believe in their particular god/gods etc...but,it's just not for me.

**youbedead**

WarOne wrote:
youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

Interesting...I'll have to read up on that.

Fortunately for the old neighborhood,things didn't escalate to that level,but I distinctly recall a bitter shouting match between the two over a statue of Jesus my Grandmother had placed on her front porch.
...I have to admit,I didn't understand it then...and I don't understand it now.

If you want to be really confused, Buddha explicitly said to not worship him, and to not build idols of him. There are many statues of buddha throughout the world that are 100's of feet tall, or solid gold, etc.

Does Buddha have the same standards for idolatry that Judeo-Christian religions have?

It was more of him believing you don't need a physical manifestation of the spiritual, e.g. don't need priests, don't need idols, etc. So he didn't damn anyone for worshipping him ut believed it was unnecessary and distracted one from reaching true enlightenment.

**sebster**

Amaya wrote:A Christian is defined as a follower of Jesus Christ.
Jesus said that murdering people is wrong.
Someone commits murder in the name of Jesus.
How can they possibly be Christian?

Christianity doesn't define itself as those people who act according to tenets of Christianity (which aren't entirely clear anyway). Christianity defines itself as being those people who belief in Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Now, you can point out that a particular Christian didn't act in a very Christian way, but that doesn't make them not a Christian.

I can believe that I am a Unicorn. Does that make me a Unicorn?

No, because a unicorn is a horse with a horn. Somethings, particularly religious membership, can be defined by beliefs, whereas other things are not.

**rubiksnoob**

FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
FITZZ wrote:
youbedead wrote:
Quick quiz, is it a sin to have a picture of jesus

Not sure if it's a "Sin",but I know it was a major point of contention between my Catholic Grandmother,who had pictures of Jesus all over her house,and her Baptist neighbor who called her an "Idolater"...I always thought it a bit odd,after all aren't you suppose to be on the same "side"?

That was the perhaps the single greatest piece of contention between orthodox and catholicism. The Iconoclasm almost brought the byzantine empire and western europe to war. It may have also been partly responsible for the 4th crusade

Interesting...I'll have to read up on that.

Fortunately for the old neighborhood,things didn't escalate to that level,but I distinctly recall a bitter shouting match between the two over a statue of Jesus my Grandmother had placed on her front porch.
...I have to admit,I didn't understand it then...and I don't understand it now.

From what I understand of it, those against the use of icons accused those who had them of worshipping the icons rather than christ himself.

**Melissia**

sebster wrote:Christianity doesn't define itself as those people who act according to tenets of Christianity (which aren't entirely clear anyway)

Technically speaking one could argue there's only two tenets of Christianity.

"Love god" being the first, and "love thy neighbor as if he were thy brother" being the second, with all other rules and laws subservient to and drawing from these two.

**sebster**

Amaya wrote:Aside from that, enemies of the Jews had a habit of getting curb stomped quite a bit.

Because it was their book. Just like you read the fluff sections of the Imperial Guard books and they're all completely awesome and actually killing people with lasguns, but in other people's books they get absolutely stomped.

**Melissia**

Ah, there, found it.

[Mark 12:28] One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”

12:29 “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

12:30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’

12:31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.”

**sebster**

WarOne wrote:But I do believe that Christians in general do not condone the extermination of a people, and how could one stand by and watch others be mass murdered as a believer in the teachings of Jesus?

As history has shown, many Christians stood by during the holocaust, others profited from it or even took part, and others resisted, through either violent or peaceful means.

Life, history and religion are all very diverse things.

**SlaveToDorkness**

Yes, worship of representations of God is Idolatry.

Simply having such representations is not.

The Apostle's Creed sums up the basic roots of the Christian faith.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,

maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord,

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
and born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell.
On the third day He rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty.
From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy Christian church,

the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Still waiting on a citation of where Jesus claims to be imperfect in the Bible BTW.

**micahaphone**

Sweet Jesus that's five whole pages of nitpicking! A person is a Christian if they say believe they are. If they are hateful and wrong, like the WBC or the KKK, then they are hypocritical Christians. If they don't really follow any of the teachings, but still believe, then they're casual Christians. That's it!

**sebster**

Melissia wrote:
sebster wrote:Christianity doesn't define itself as those people who act according to tenets of Christianity (which aren't entirely clear anyway)
Technically speaking one could argue there's only two tenets of Christianity.

"Love god" being the first, and "love thy neighbor as if he were thy brother" being the second, with all other rules and laws subservient to and drawing from these two.

Note, though, that failing to live up to these doesn't stop you being Christian. Indeed, failing to walk the Christian path perfectly is a major part of the faith. Indeed, anyone who claimed that you have to love God and love your neighbour as if he were thy brother at all times or you stop being Christian would be greeted with great scorn by the greater Christian community, if only because it implied that the speaker thought he had maintained those two tenets at all times.

The only thing that would stop someone being Christian would be when he says "I don't believe in Jesus"

**rubiksnoob**

I would think that there would be only one basic requirement for being christian: worshipping jesus christ.

Other than that it would seem that the rest is open to interpretation.

Edit: sebster beat me to it.

**Slarg232**

What is a Christian?!

A MISERABLE LITTLE PILE OF CHURCH TEACHINGS!

/Castlevania reference

**Melissia**

sebster wrote:
Melissia wrote:
sebster wrote:Christianity doesn't define itself as those people who act according to tenets of Christianity (which aren't entirely clear anyway)
Technically speaking one could argue there's only two tenets of Christianity.

"Love god" being the first, and "love thy neighbor as if he were thy brother" being the second, with all other rules and laws subservient to and drawing from these two.

Note, though, that failing to live up to these doesn't stop you being Christian. Indeed, failing to walk the Christian path perfectly is a major part of the faith. Indeed, anyone who claimed that you have to love God and love your neighbour as if he were thy brother at all times or you stop being Christian would be greeted with great scorn by the greater Christian community, if only because it implied that the speaker thought he had maintained those two tenets at all times.

The only thing that would stop someone being Christian would be when he says "I don't believe in Jesus"

I don't know many people that actually follow the second most important law in Christianity (IE, love thy neighbor). Christians preach hate all the time, and if one doesn't preach hate they're seen as a softy who can't properly lead his (And they are almost exclusively male here) flock. Despite the fact that hatred is against the very core of the religion, but see, people don't let things like logic get in their way.

**Slarg232**

Melissia wrote:
sebster wrote:
Melissia wrote:
sebster wrote:Christianity doesn't define itself as those people who act according to tenets of Christianity (which aren't entirely clear anyway)
Technically speaking one could argue there's only two tenets of Christianity.

"Love god" being the first, and "love thy neighbor as if he were thy brother" being the second, with all other rules and laws subservient to and drawing from these two.

Note, though, that failing to live up to these doesn't stop you being Christian. Indeed, failing to walk the Christian path perfectly is a major part of the faith. Indeed, anyone who claimed that you have to love God and love your neighbour as if he were thy brother at all times or you stop being Christian would be greeted with great scorn by the greater Christian community, if only because it implied that the speaker thought he had maintained those two tenets at all times.

The only thing that would stop someone being Christian would be when he says "I don't believe in Jesus"
I don't know many people that actually follow the second most important law in Christianity (IE, love thy neighbor). Christians preach hate all the time, and if one doesn't preach hate they're seen as a softy who can't properly lead his (And they are almost exclusively male here) flock. Despite the fact that hatred is against the very core of the religion, but see, people don't let things like logic get in their way.

A Nitpick: Love thy Neighbor is actually more of the 7-8th law. Not the second

Also, Christianity does not preach about hating other people. They do not. And this is coming from someone who grew up in a household of Christians and turned his back on that religion. The only part of the Bible that is really spoken about, and therefore Preached, but the non hateful priests (Like our good old friends, the Westburrow people. Baptists, yes, but the point still stands) preach only the New Testament, not the Old.

Which is one of my main gripes with the religion; half of it is telling you to steal from people who steal from you, and the other half is telling you to turn the other cheek and empty out your pockets for the guy