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Tabo wrote:How old was this birthday boy? If he was around 8 what the hell is he doing playing 40k? if he's around 13 why is his mother treating him like a baby?

nothing wrong with an 8 year old playing warhammer is there? I mean I'd supervise him when it comes to using sharp knives and superglue but I'm pretty sure I started when I was 8, or at least, not much older.

Capitalism: Where money earns you the right to be a jerk.
Communism: Where the party earns you the right to be a jerk.
Nepotism: Where the family earns you the right to be a jerk.
Altruism: Where jerks are just jerks.

Frazzled wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:And you don't anticipate someone buying six boxes when most customers who would be doing huge purchases like that preordered.

Bull gak. That's a nothing amount and could be seen as a bait and switch tactic.

You do know what "bait and switch tactics" are, right Frazzled?

It's where a company brings your business to the store by telling you they will have X, but instead sells you Y.

There's no "bait and switch" involved in this instance. There's not even remotely anything close to "bait and switch" in this instance.

The OP, by his own statement, came in on Wednesday(after the cutoff date for preorders, when everything would already be on the way from GW) and said to the employee something to the effect of he was "going to buy Grey Knights", not really specifying any amounts or the like.

By his relation of the story, he was then told that shouldn't be a problem as everyone who really was serious about starting an army had preordered the stuff and would pick their stuff up on Thursday/Friday, like most people who preorder do.

So yeah. The store's at fault for not anticipating a last minute buyer who decides he's going to buy an entire army in one go. How dare they not anticipate such a thing, the nerve!

But at the same time: I wouldn't say the OP's entirely clear of any "fault"(do we really need blame in an ethical situation?). The simple fact that he's asking on an internet forum for validation should tell you as much.

You do know what "bait and switch tactics" are, right Frazzled?
****The State Bar says I do. How about you?

There's no "bait and switch" involved in this instance. There's not even remotely anything close to "bait and switch" in this instance.
***Sure it does. If you have a major promotion and then stock only a few of that item, then that’s bad trade practices, depending on the jurisdiction love.

By his relation of the story, he was then told that shouldn't be a problem as everyone who really was serious about starting an army had preordered the stuff and would pick their stuff up on Thursday/Friday, like most people who preorder do.
***I have 8+ armies. I’ve never “pre ordered” an army. I don’t know anyone who’s pre-ordered an army. Its not my job to handle their inventory management for them.

So yeah. The store's at fault for not anticipating a last minute buyer who decides he's going to buy an entire army in one go. How dare they not anticipate such a thing, the nerve!
***How dare they bait and switch and not have enough supply for one purchase. Yep, my point stands and your argument falls apart. Unless there are playing some sort of GW kanban fantasy they didn’t hold enough inventory for an army on the day the new codex comes out. That’s stupid, utterly stupid.

But at the same time: I wouldn't say the OP's entirely clear of any "fault"(do we really need blame in an ethical situation?). The simple fact that he's asking on an internet forum for validation should tell you as much.
****The OP is in no sense at fault for anything except providing custom at that store. To think otherwise borders on the Helleresque.

Actually... yes, Kanluwen, what he refers to IS called bait and switch tactics.

You advertise that you're selling X, which is what people want, but X is not profitable. You're also selling Y, which is more profitable, but fewer people want it. X and Y are similar products. So you decide to stock very little of X, and then make a big deal out of a sale on the X product, then try to console customers by selling them Y instead, making more profit than you would if you had sold them all product X and trying to look innocent in the process.

That is considered a bait and switch tactic. The goal of bait and switch is to persuade customers to buy the substitute product as a way of avoiding the disappointment of not being able to get the primary product, the bait as it were.



I'm not saying that was the store's plan. Only that if it was, it would very much be a bait and switch plan.

The lad's parents should have simply bought him a box of Dire Avengers and a Wave Serpent. Toy spaceships are much cooler then metal bawks

I don't think the new GKs are appropriate for children anyway. I certainly wouldn't want any child of mine playing an army filled with sick freaks who bathe their armor in the blood of the Nuns that they slaughter.

Jokes and poorly written Ward Fluff aside, there are always people who will buy their entire army in one go, I usually make all my big purchases from online providers and really only use the store for small purchases- like a codex or commander here and there. That said there is nothing wrong with buying your entire army in one go from the store at opening. Its your money, and people buying brand new releases should expect a high possibility of them being sold out.

To put it simply, the kids parents could very easily have pre ordered some of this GK stuff, they could have called the store to make sure they had stock / make sure to save some stock for them. There are lots of reasonable alternative solutions.

Feeling bad about having 6 of something while little jimmy doesn't get anything for his birthday is a natural reaction, but it doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. I feel bad for people who lose thousands of dollars at a casino and get evicted- but that doesn't mean I'll give them any money- its their own decisions that got them there.

Actually you're right. The OP should feel bad, for not introducing the boy to something non-Marine. Friends don't let friends play Marines!

The State Bar says I do. How about you?

You still call this "bait and switch". It's not.
Just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean you're even remotely right.

Sure it does. If you have a major promotion and then stock only a few of that item, then that’s bad trade practices, depending on the jurisdiction love.

What major promotion? What "stock of only a few of that item"? One guy bought six boxes of one item on release day, when anyone else who'd done the same quantity of purchase had preordered/reserved their items through the shop.

I have 8+ armies. I’ve never “pre ordered” an army. I don’t know anyone who’s pre-ordered an army. Its not my job to handle their inventory management for them.

How many of those armies have you bought in one trip, on the release date?
I call BS on "you don't know anyone who's preordered an army", by the by. If you've preordered anything at all for your army--you've, by definition, "preordered an army".
I said nothing about it being the customer's job to "handle their inventory management for them". I said that, in essence, that most customers who buy these huge purchases will preorder.

How dare they bait and switch and not have enough supply for one purchase.

This term. You're still not using it right.

Yep, my point stands and your argument falls apart.

What point? That one guy was an outlier and bought out nearly the entire leftover stock of a shop?
The preorders bought most of the stock. This guy bought what was left. If he'd preordered, they would have bumped up the stock accordingly.

Unless there are playing some sort of GW kanban fantasy they didn’t hold enough inventory for an army on the day the new codex comes out. That’s stupid, utterly stupid.

The only stupid thing was that they didn't put a limit on things per customer, but that's nothing new. Look at Space Hulk.

The OP is in no sense at fault for anything except providing custom at that store.

Once again: I didn't say there was any fault. Read the parentheses.

This entire thread is an exercise in ethics. The fact that he's asking for validation from the Internet should tell you, simply, that he's feeling guilty and considers himself "at fault".
Was he a jerk? Probably not.
But it still was kind of a "Not Cool Bro" move.




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Melissia wrote:Actually... yes, Kanluwen, what he refers to IS called bait and switch tactics.

You advertise that you're selling X, which is what people want, but X is not profitable. You're also selling Y, which is more profitable, but fewer people want it. X and Y are similar products. So you decide to stock very little of X, and then make a big deal out of a sale on the X product, then try to console customers by selling them Y instead, making more profit than you would if you had sold them all product X and trying to look innocent in the process.

That is considered a bait and switch tactic. The goal of bait and switch is to persuade customers to buy the substitute product as a way of avoiding the disappointment of not being able to get the primary product, the bait as it were.


I'm not saying that was the store's plan. Only that if it was, it would very much be a bait and switch plan.

Intent is what makes it "bait and switch", Melissia.

There was no intent, and from what we've heard the employee didn't try to sell the kid who came in at 1:15 any kind of alternative.

So there's no bait and switch.


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akaen wrote:To put it simply, the kids parents could very easily have pre ordered some of this GK stuff, they could have called the store to make sure they had stock / make sure to save some stock for them. There are lots of reasonable alternative solutions.

I hate to say it but would you have expected almost everything to be sold in one go, within 15 minutes of the shop opening?

Just because you're a lawyer doesn't mean you're even remotely right.

1. My wife, kids, and assorted pets point out my errors hourly.
2. But of course, it doesn’t mean you’re correct either, even though you’ve made the insinuation twice. However, you seem to be getting emotionally involved in something you have no interest in. I am not sure why.

All the rest I’ll leave off as “wall of text” makes Frazzled cry, and by that I mean I can’t be arsed to parse through it.

Oh wait I found a piece I can look at without cleaning out my eye sockets with a rusty spoon:

But it still was kind of a "Not Cool Bro" move.

No it wasn’t.

Toodles.

If that's a wall of text to you, I don't know how the heck you read a case file.

Kanluwen wrote:If that's a wall of text to you, I don't know how the heck you read a case file.

I get paid.

Well, that might be a good motivator.

Thank God I'm not interested in becoming a lawyer. Just a cop.

You come across as beligerent, argumentative, and always convinced you're right. You'd make a perfect cop.

All right all right move along now...personal attacks are not appropriate.

seejay wrote:You come across as beligerent, argumentative, and always convinced you're right. You'd make a perfect cop.

You spelled "belligerent" wrong.

I had a bet with myself you'd pick up on that, I won

Wait...
Your pups are trained forensic scientists now, Frazzled?

One more time then I get snippy.

Quit the personal remarks.

Apologies
Was only joking and no intent of winding you up the wrong way.

Just thought the picture was cute.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Wait...
Your pups are trained forensic scientists now, Frazzled?

Team Weinie is fully versed in the criminal arts*

*TBone has been hiding the bones for Millenia.

Frazzled wrote:[color=red]One more time then I get snippy.

Quit the personal remarks.

Not quite a personal remark. "you come across as..." Isn't the same as saying "You are a..."

If you get my meaning.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Apologies
Was only joking and no intent of winding you up the wrong way.

Just thought the picture was cute.

No harm wasn't referring to you Chibster.

brother_zach wrote:

cgage00 wrote:

Cottonjaw wrote:Uhh.. was this a GW employee? Or is this an independant retailer? Because if he seriously pointed at you and said "He bought them all" then he needs to be fired.

This doesn't seem to reflect the "Outrageously good customer service" they require of their employees on the application. (So what. I've read it. Make something of it.)

Sadly it was a GW employee. But I filed a complaint about a GW employee that let some kid nerd rage and break my Swarmlord model. All they said was well don't go back there. Needless to say I buy 99% of my stuff online have my own table for gaming with my friends and go to Local RTTs not hosted at a GW store.

Told you not to come back? What kind of business is that?

Oh wait, thats GW.

Personally, I would have given one of the boxes to the kid's parent for them to purchase, since it's his birthday and all. I just like bringing happiness to kids, because growing up sucks. I mean, he's a kid, and probaly doesen't get to spend money on war dudes like a grown man could. Plus, do you really need all that stuff at one time? You could wait or order the rest online. I personally do not make hobby purchases over $150 at one time, even if I'm starting a new army.



Morally, legally, and ethically, you're in the clear. First come first serve, and the store should have stocked more models. We Americans have a sense of entitlement thats often greater than what we deserve. Other countries hate us because our kids cry over toys when their children cry of hunger and sickness.

/rant.

I'am English and I DON'T hate America. 99% of your country is very nice, I've been there myself, and enjoyed both trips

seejay wrote:

Frazzled wrote:[color=red]One more time then I get snippy.

Quit the personal remarks.

Not quite a personal remark. "you come across as..." Isn't the same as saying "You are a..."

If you get my meaning.

Wait, you're not getting that DON'T WITHFRAZZLEDHEBANSPEOPLEJUSTBECUASEHISLUMBAGOISACTINGUP thing are you...

My bad
Combo of cross over postings and a guilty conscience on my part causing paranoia

The internet is the Devil's own tool for making misunderstandings

I'm not fething with you, just discussing semantics!

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:My bad
Combo of cross over postings and a guilty conscience on my part causing paranoia

The internet is the Devil's own tool for making misunderstandings

This should help.

I don't know how often GW supplies its stores, but my guess is (like most retail game stores) not more than once a week.

So, OP bought 6 boxes and the guy behind him bought one. Sold Out. Notice anything?

Yes, GW does this on purpose to jack up demand. It's a fairly common tactic in retail and they are nefariously and infamously unfair when dealing with independent stockists when it comes to supply of new mini kits. I remember the Fortress of Redemption our local store ordered 10 in hopes of getting 5 and got 1. Meanwhile his competitor got whatever he ordered and had stock on hand for at least 2 weeks. GW does stuff like this and they do it on purpose.

The math is obvious. OP, don't feel bad. Next time hang out outside the GW store, jack up the price to $40/box and sell them to the birthday brats (OK, if you do that then maybe you should feel bad...).

Why are we fighting again? Let's just go get some booze and we'll all fine again.

Dark wrote:Why are we fighting again?

Because we're on the internet.