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wisdomseyes1 wrote:

You have not listened to a single argument on this entire thread have you.

There is a difference between wings and the personal tele... there is a reason that daemon princes can take wings and not jump packs (which if I remember correctly says that the unit IS jump infantry)

It's still a simple matter of RAI. I'm more of a RAW guy myself, but there are several cases where RAI is needed. (This one and DCCW making it S10 come to mind)

As I said, if the DK can be carried in the dreadnought space, then that would probably work. The idea that it becomes JI as RAW states is just rediculous as you then loose all the MC rules according to RAW. So as someone stated earlier, 75 points to make it not an MC? People need to use common sense.

Sothas wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Sothas wrote:

ironhandstraken wrote:
secondly if you give a dreadknight a personal teleporter, it can ride in a stormraven because if you give it this it counts as jump infantry and it only takes up 2 spot.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!

This is not possible. The DK becomes an MC that moves 12 inches. This is similar to a daemon prince with wings.

By your logic the DK also looses the ability to roll 2d6 AP as well as many other things.

Again NO!

YES! NO! MAYBE!

It doesn't say it becomes an MC that moves like JI, it says it BECOMES JI. This results in a rules breakdown that is currently being debated in YMDC.

As a side note, why the feth would anyone put a dreadknight in a Stormraven?

Dude really? A Daemon Prince with wings is still an MC, why would DK be different? This is just simply an attempt to exploit the rules. By the same logic it can ride in a rhino, razorback, chimera and land raider. This is just dumb.

It'll get FAQed. The only possible way I see this being ok, if they FAQ it that it uses the dreadnought spot on the stormraven. I would accept this personally, but not until it's FAQed. I'm going with no, it's an MC.

Have I been saying that I'd play them like that? No? Then calm down. Besides, JI can't normally embark in transports anyway, the SR is just special.

Sothas wrote:

wisdomseyes1 wrote:

You have not listened to a single argument on this entire thread have you.

There is a difference between wings and the personal tele... there is a reason that daemon princes can take wings and not jump packs (which if I remember correctly says that the unit IS jump infantry)

It's still a simple matter of RAI. I'm more of a RAW guy myself, but there are several cases where RAI is needed. (This one and DCCW making it S10 come to mind)

As I said, if the DK can be carried in the dreadnought space, then that would probably work. The idea that it becomes JI as RAW states is just rediculous as you then loose all the MC rules according to RAW. So as someone stated earlier, 75 points to make it not an MC? People need to use common sense.

75 points to make it not a MC, therefore gaining the benefits of not being an MC. Hence the title being "broken" rules.

Because it quite an advantage for a S10 model with powerweapons to want coversaves and fly in a storm raven.

Don't get me wrong... I don't honestly believe that it will turn out this way... but I have seen GW do some stupid things with their rules interpretations (Ie, the Doom of malant'ia or the second to most recent rulebook FAQ stating that if a model is falling back and gets tank shocked, it is assumed to pass that moral test ---see page 46 for the contradiction ---)

But... I am supporting RAW as long as CSM players say that their daemon Princes and summoned daemons aren't daemons and Grey knights don't get preferred enemy against them, yet my daemons in the daemons book are. Since there is nothing that defines a daemon (and if someone says the daemon rule I will slap them and then show them the daemon rule) then nothing can get preferred enemy.

People are saying, "well CSM players wouldn't pull this cheese based on the rules wording" THEY ARE ALREADY.

A bitt of subject perhaps, but what do people think about Justicar Thawn? I think he looks very good. Imadge once he hit your oponents lines he will be a nightmare.

I should think it is pretty broken.

I think he's an over priced piece of crap. You don't get much for 75 points

he's annoying.

he is good as he allows you to have Hammerhand and activate your Force weapons at the same time. and coming back to life can make opponents extreamly frustrated.

he might be slightly overcosted, but he's still good for the points.

But once you get your terminators close to the enemy you eather
a) get to attack I6 S5 instant kill or
b) they kill him, he resurects and charges something that is 12" close to him
c) B happens later on.

Not only that, but he is scoring, if you have last turn it is very cool to have him resurect and claim objective.

I havnt read the part on assassins yet, but someone was telling me that the Culuxis assassin has some shooting attack that goes up when psykers are around and he was saying that it can easily hit like 30 some shots, because everything in the GK army is a psyker basically. Is that true? If so, that could be pretty broken for just one model

KingCracker wrote:I havnt read the part on assassins yet, but someone was telling me that the Culuxis assassin has some shooting attack that goes up when psykers are around and he was saying that it can easily hit like 30 some shots, because everything in the GK army is a psyker basically. Is that true? If so, that could be pretty broken for just one model

No, this is people not playing the rules correctly.

Each gk unit is a pysker by the brotherhood of pysker rules; not each individual model. That is clear in the codex, but people are trying to bend to rules to say every single individual model counts as one, and that's how they are ending up with 30+ attacks.

It's a blatant breaking of the rules; don't fall for it

The most broken rule for Grey Knights actually is Fortitude its so ridiculously good for so cheap. Extra Armor costs 10 points more and Possession which gives you a 1 point ballistic skill nerf costs 15 points more. Sure Fortitude doesn't work all the time like those two abilities do but it costs less and works enough of the time. Changes the whole game of shooting and shaking or stunning vehicles and moving to the next vehicle.

don't compare Posession with Fortitude.

Fortitude isn't a sure thing where Posession ALWAYS works.

in addition, Posession was waay overcosted when the CSM codex came out. not to mention the CSM codex sucks in just about every possable way on top of this.


Extra Armor also works all the time and was simply added for completeness.

omerakk wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I havnt read the part on assassins yet, but someone was telling me that the Culuxis assassin has some shooting attack that goes up when psykers are around and he was saying that it can easily hit like 30 some shots, because everything in the GK army is a psyker basically. Is that true? If so, that could be pretty broken for just one model

No, this is people not playing the rules correctly.

Each gk unit is a pysker by the brotherhood of pysker rules; not each individual model. That is clear in the codex, but people are trying to bend to rules to say every single individual model counts as one, and that's how they are ending up with 30+ attacks.

It's a blatant breaking of the rules; don't fall for it

AAaahhhh well thats honestly nice to know. I was just thinking, man if I took my Orks against that, how the hell would I walk away from 1 shooting phase? Ill have to let him know about that then. Maybe he just misunderstood how it worked. I seriously need to read the damn codex, maybe I would of caught that

You can still get it pretty high, especially with a MSU army. Put him in the middle of a cluster of squads, and his gun can get 10 or so shots. Not broken, but it is potentially powerful.

KingCracker wrote:

omerakk wrote:

KingCracker wrote:I havnt read the part on assassins yet, but someone was telling me that the Culuxis assassin has some shooting attack that goes up when psykers are around and he was saying that it can easily hit like 30 some shots, because everything in the GK army is a psyker basically. Is that true? If so, that could be pretty broken for just one model

No, this is people not playing the rules correctly.

Each gk unit is a pysker by the brotherhood of pysker rules; not each individual model. That is clear in the codex, but people are trying to bend to rules to say every single individual model counts as one, and that's how they are ending up with 30+ attacks.

It's a blatant breaking of the rules; don't fall for it

AAaahhhh well thats honestly nice to know. I was just thinking, man if I took my Orks against that, how the hell would I walk away from 1 shooting phase? Ill have to let him know about that then. Maybe he just misunderstood how it worked. I seriously need to read the damn codex, maybe I would of caught that

in his defense, the GW blog implied that each individual GK model would add +1 to his shots. at least, that was my impression after i saw it.

then i read the actual rules and it all made sense.

I'm gunna have to go with fortitude also. Yeah it has a chance to fail, but it only has a 1/10 chance of failing. so 9 tmes out of 10 it works. So it's basically a 15 point upgrade for 5. Also possession lowers BS by 1. I never take that crap. It sucks. In all honesty the whol codex is pretty broken. They have one of the best AT weapons in the game. They have a 4 wound MC termie. Oh yeah, and for 4 points more than standard marines they get force weapons, defence vs psykers, and two powers for S5 CC hits and anti DSing. I change my mind. GKSS are the most OP unit.

Sothas wrote:I'm gunna have to go with fortitude also. Yeah it has a chance to fail, but it only has a 1/10 chance of failing. so 9 tmes out of 10 it works. So it's basically a 15 point upgrade for 5. Also possession lowers BS by 1. I never take that crap. It sucks. In all honesty the whol codex is pretty broken. They have one of the best AT weapons in the game. They have a 4 wound MC termie. Oh yeah, and for 4 points more than standard marines they get force weapons, defence vs psykers, and two powers for S5 CC hits and anti DSing. I change my mind. GKSS are the most OP unit.

WAAAAH! The sky is falling!


Seriously, the Codex is far from "broken". Complaining about "one of the best anti-tank weapons in the game" when Space Marines, Imperial Guard, SoB, Eldar and Dark Eldar all have melta-weapons is kinda silly. The "4 wound MC termie" isn't much better than a Daemon Prince, the difference being that krak missiles ignore the DP's armour, although the DP's cheaper and gets useful psychic powers! Meanwhile the Strike Squads are more or less glorified Tactical Marines. They die just as easily as any other MEQ unit, while being more expensive.

Fortitude has 3/36 or 1/12 chance of failing BTW.