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2011/06/17 11:27:29
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
4M2A wrote:Your still putting your need over theirs. While I wouldn't look down on people for it (I can understand them justifying it) how far do you take the argument? Can I steal a car from a worldwide company because my need of it is greater than theirs? Where to draw the line is a personal decision. The decisions that they should be allowed to steal to save their lives is an emotion decision based on empathising with the starving individual. Someone who can emotionally justify stealing a car can use exactly the same argument as you are come to the conclusion it is ok.
The Law needs to remain firm and people should be punished regardless of whether they were doing it for the right reasons otherwise people will believe it is ok the break the law for good. As good is subjective some people will be allowed to break the law to do what they want and others won't, which doesn't seem fair.
I think you've confused want and need in my argument. I specifically mentioned items the people don't necessarily need, but still steal becuase they want them. You don't need a car or ipod, but you may need food on the table, or shelter. As others have already mentioned, Western societies tend to provide these freely to those in need.
It's not outlandish to say that doing something, that would normally be considered immoral, to preserve your life or the life of another, is not immoral. After all, that's why we have Self-defence. I would think necessity does impact on morality, as well as illegality in some cases.
Frazzled also seems to have misunderstood me. You, Mr.42, weren't a dick, sorry, so obtuse about it though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/17 11:29:19
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
2011/06/17 11:31:39
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
We can lose the needless comments like this please. ta.
I think I'll take yours. Its ok. I need it more.
... that's the spirit that made our countries great alright !
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2011/06/17 11:38:09
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
4M2A wrote:Your still putting your need over theirs. While I wouldn't look down on people for it (I can understand them justifying it) how far do you take the argument? Can I steal a car from a worldwide company because my need of it is greater than theirs? Where to draw the line is a personal decision. The decisions that they should be allowed to steal to save their lives is an emotion decision based on empathising with the starving individual. Someone who can emotionally justify stealing a car can use exactly the same argument as you are come to the conclusion it is ok.
The Law needs to remain firm and people should be punished regardless of whether they were doing it for the right reasons otherwise people will believe it is ok the break the law for good. As good is subjective some people will be allowed to break the law to do what they want and others won't, which doesn't seem fair.
I think you've confused want and need in my argument. I specifically mentioned items the people don't necessarily need, but still steal becuase they want them. You don't need a car or ipod, but you may need food on the table, or shelter. As others have already mentioned, Western societies tend to provide these freely to those in need.
It's not outlandish to say that doing something, that would normally be considered immoral, to preserve your life or the life of another, is not immoral. After all, that's why we have Self-defence. I would think necessity does impact on morality, as well as illegality in some cases.
Frazzled also seems to have misunderstood me. You, Mr.42, weren't a dick, sorry, so obtuse about it though.
I didn't understand you. You're just what we call, wrong.
In first world countries there is no need where there is no government availability. Everything else is a want.
Well I want your stuff. Its ok you said it was, plus I have this pointy stick to help you understand how much I'm right...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 11:42:15
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
Frazzled wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
4M2A wrote:Your still putting your need over theirs. While I wouldn't look down on people for it (I can understand them justifying it) how far do you take the argument? Can I steal a car from a worldwide company because my need of it is greater than theirs? Where to draw the line is a personal decision. The decisions that they should be allowed to steal to save their lives is an emotion decision based on empathising with the starving individual. Someone who can emotionally justify stealing a car can use exactly the same argument as you are come to the conclusion it is ok.
The Law needs to remain firm and people should be punished regardless of whether they were doing it for the right reasons otherwise people will believe it is ok the break the law for good. As good is subjective some people will be allowed to break the law to do what they want and others won't, which doesn't seem fair.
I think you've confused want and need in my argument. I specifically mentioned items the people don't necessarily need, but still steal becuase they want them. You don't need a car or ipod, but you may need food on the table, or shelter. As others have already mentioned, Western societies tend to provide these freely to those in need.
It's not outlandish to say that doing something, that would normally be considered immoral, to preserve your life or the life of another, is not immoral. After all, that's why we have Self-defence. I would think necessity does impact on morality, as well as illegality in some cases.
Frazzled also seems to have misunderstood me. You, Mr.42, weren't a dick, sorry, so obtuse about it though.
I didn't understand you. You're just what we call, wrong.
In first world countries there is no need where there is no government availability. Everything else is a want.
Well I want your stuff. Its ok you said it was, plus I have this pointy stick to help you understand how much I'm right...
Exactly. You didn't understand me, likely becuase you didn't read my post properly. Now, please Granpa, drink your prune juice and go to bed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/17 11:42:54
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
2011/06/17 11:43:52
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2011/06/17 11:52:15
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
4M2A wrote:Your still putting your need over theirs. While I wouldn't look down on people for it (I can understand them justifying it) how far do you take the argument? Can I steal a car from a worldwide company because my need of it is greater than theirs? Where to draw the line is a personal decision. The decisions that they should be allowed to steal to save their lives is an emotion decision based on empathising with the starving individual. Someone who can emotionally justify stealing a car can use exactly the same argument as you are come to the conclusion it is ok.
The Law needs to remain firm and people should be punished regardless of whether they were doing it for the right reasons otherwise people will believe it is ok the break the law for good. As good is subjective some people will be allowed to break the law to do what they want and others won't, which doesn't seem fair.
I think you've confused want and need in my argument. I specifically mentioned items the people don't necessarily need, but still steal becuase they want them. You don't need a car or ipod, but you may need food on the table, or shelter. As others have already mentioned, Western societies tend to provide these freely to those in need.
It's not outlandish to say that doing something, that would normally be considered immoral, to preserve your life or the life of another, is not immoral. After all, that's why we have Self-defence. I would think necessity does impact on morality, as well as illegality in some cases.
Frazzled also seems to have misunderstood me. You, Mr.42, weren't a dick, sorry, so obtuse about it though.
I didn't understand you. You're just what we call, wrong.
In first world countries there is no need where there is no government availability. Everything else is a want.
Well I want your stuff. Its ok you said it was, plus I have this pointy stick to help you understand how much I'm right...
Exactly. You didn't understand me, likely becuase you didn't read my post properly. Now, please Granpa, drink your prune juice and go to bed.
But can I have your bed. Its much more comfy. Come on I really neeeeed it.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 12:03:43
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
Frazzled wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
4M2A wrote:Your still putting your need over theirs. While I wouldn't look down on people for it (I can understand them justifying it) how far do you take the argument? Can I steal a car from a worldwide company because my need of it is greater than theirs? Where to draw the line is a personal decision. The decisions that they should be allowed to steal to save their lives is an emotion decision based on empathising with the starving individual. Someone who can emotionally justify stealing a car can use exactly the same argument as you are come to the conclusion it is ok.
The Law needs to remain firm and people should be punished regardless of whether they were doing it for the right reasons otherwise people will believe it is ok the break the law for good. As good is subjective some people will be allowed to break the law to do what they want and others won't, which doesn't seem fair.
I think you've confused want and need in my argument. I specifically mentioned items the people don't necessarily need, but still steal becuase they want them. You don't need a car or ipod, but you may need food on the table, or shelter. As others have already mentioned, Western societies tend to provide these freely to those in need.
It's not outlandish to say that doing something, that would normally be considered immoral, to preserve your life or the life of another, is not immoral. After all, that's why we have Self-defence. I would think necessity does impact on morality, as well as illegality in some cases.
Frazzled also seems to have misunderstood me. You, Mr.42, weren't a dick, sorry, so obtuse about it though.
I didn't understand you. You're just what we call, wrong.
In first world countries there is no need where there is no government availability. Everything else is a want.
Well I want your stuff. Its ok you said it was, plus I have this pointy stick to help you understand how much I'm right...
Exactly. You didn't understand me, likely becuase you didn't read my post properly. Now, please Granpa, drink your prune juice and go to bed.
But can I have your bed. Its much more comfy. Come on I really neeeeed it.
1) I live in a student flat. I doubt the comfiness is at all deisreble.
2) You still don't get the difference between needs and wants.
*shrug*
Meh, it's Frazzled. Wachagonnado?
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
2011/06/17 12:20:41
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
You still don't get that outside of food, water, and shelter its all wants. As you can get food, water, and shelter via government assistance, its ALL wants.
Again, I need you stuff. I know I may have more stuff than you, but I really neeeeed it. Its morally required that you give it to me, and I can be excused for any crimes I commit in procuring them. You don't want to be immoral now do you?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 12:21:37
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
What you need depends on your view. IMO no one needs anything. If you don't eat you will die but thats the same as me needing a TV so I am entertained. It all depends on whether you put your life / entertainment / whatever else above the other persons claim to there own things.
It's entirely subjective which states (being alive, being happy, being entertained) are more important than the other persons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/17 12:23:03
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
Frazzled wrote:You still don't get that outside of food, water, and shelter its all wants. As you can get food, water, and shelter via government assistance, its ALL wants.
Yes. That is what I said. Neccessities, such as food/water/shelter are needs. And in most western countries these are provided for regardless of your situation.
Please read.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
4M2A wrote:What you need depends on your view. IMO no one needs anything. If you don't eat you will die but thats the same as me needing a TV so I am entertained. It all depends on whether you put your life / entertainment / whatever else above the other persons claim to there own things.
It's entirely subjective which states (being alive, being happy, being entertained) are more important than the other persons.
Things that are necessary for the continuation of human life are needs. Things like entertainment and comfort, while nice, are not absolutely necessary.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/17 13:00:40
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
"Good game guys, now lets hit the showers"
2011/06/17 13:01:07
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:You still don't get that outside of food, water, and shelter its all wants. As you can get food, water, and shelter via government assistance, its ALL wants.
Yes. That is what I said. Neccessities, such as food/water/shelter are needs. And in most western countries these are provided for regardless of your situation.
Please read.
I can't. I'm too busy needing all your stuff. So I'll sned someone around Tuesday for the pickup. Does that work on your end?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 13:09:13
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
Frazzled wrote:
Emperors Faithful wrote:
Frazzled wrote:You still don't get that outside of food, water, and shelter its all wants. As you can get food, water, and shelter via government assistance, its ALL wants.
Yes. That is what I said. Neccessities, such as food/water/shelter are needs. And in most western countries these are provided for regardless of your situation.
Please read.
I can't. I'm too busy needing all your stuff. So I'll sned someone around Tuesday for the pickup. Does that work on your end?
Frazzled, Champion of Texas and Not-admitting-that-he-might-have-misread-someones-post-and-made-a-mistake...again.
I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 13:48:07
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
2011/06/17 14:42:01
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
I love that news show...
Russel Howard loves it to...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2011/06/17 15:53:24
Subject: Re:So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Lulzsec's... not sure what this is actually.
http://pastebin.com/HZtH523f A validation? Maybe just an open letter...
Dakka Bingo! By Ouze "You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry.
2011/06/17 17:25:32
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
I agree, and frankly I don't give a feth if its morally acceptable. I'll steal everything I need to survive in the way I want to, be it food, clothes, or money.
2011/06/17 18:03:20
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
I agree, and frankly I don't give a feth if its morally acceptable. I'll steal everything I need to survive in the way I want to, be it food, clothes, or money.
I'm sure. In fact I'm sure you're gettin your "gat" right now to go pop some caps to get some more bling as we speak.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 18:27:14
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
I agree, and frankly I don't give a feth if its morally acceptable. I'll steal everything I need to survive in the way I want to, be it food, clothes, or money.
And this is why I own a firearm. Have you ever had a job?
“Yesss! Just as planned!”
–Spoken by Xi’aquan, Lord of Change, in its death throes
2011/06/17 18:35:32
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
I agree, and frankly I don't give a feth if its morally acceptable. I'll steal everything I need to survive in the way I want to, be it food, clothes, or money.
What a pathetic worldview you have. Whilst hardly the biggest capitalist pig out there, I get a real kick, looking round my flat, and knowing everything in here is mine, bought and paid for, by the sweat of my own brow.
Try and take any of it from me, and well, I hope you're not too fond of your decidedly light fingers....
2011/06/17 18:40:11
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
I agree, and frankly I don't give a feth if its morally acceptable. I'll steal everything I need to survive in the way I want to, be it food, clothes, or money.
What a pathetic worldview you have. Whilst hardly the biggest capitalist pig out there, I get a real kick, looking round my flat, and knowing everything in here is mine, bought and paid for, by the sweat of my own brow.
Try and take any of it from me, and well, I hope you're not too fond of your decidedly light fingers....
Judging from that persons profile pic, they are a teenage girl, and she probably has no idea what the real world is like.
“Yesss! Just as planned!”
–Spoken by Xi’aquan, Lord of Change, in its death throes
2011/06/17 18:41:42
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Frazzled wrote:I didn't misread your post at all. You're arguing its morally acceptable to commit crimes for needs. I'm saying I really needs me some money for a new SOB list, or alternatively I really have an eye on a Weatherby .22LR so I can compete in NRA smallbore competitions. Come on mayyn, help a brother out.
(note I used to agree with this too. Then I gots me some money and I didn't believe it anymore. Its almost like how life should be).
I agree, and frankly I don't give a feth if its morally acceptable. I'll steal everything I need to survive in the way I want to, be it food, clothes, or money.
And this is why I own a firearm. Have you ever had a job?
Wait, you believe him? Stop drop and roll dude!
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/06/17 20:32:32
Subject: So... Anonymous, good? Bad? The Grey in between?
Karon wrote:I grew up in a much different place than all of you, its hard to understand where I'm coming from.
Yes, I am a teenage girl, btw.
Planet X? You're not one of the crab people are you? I really hate those guys.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr Mystery wrote:And hell, I don't even have anything on the never-never. It's all mine, lock stock and barrel!
Lock stock and both barrels! Welcome to the layer cake.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/06/17 20:48:23
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
